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Rheinmetall pilot project for curb stone chargers for EVs
- JoeAltmaier 3y agoDoes it become useful to carry your own charging cable?
- giuliomagnifico 3y agoYes but it’s not a big issue, EV owners should already carry a charging cable inside the car for safety.
- jupp0r 3y agoHow is safety increased by carrying a cable?
- jnsaff2 3y agoMost Type 2 (AC charging of 3,7 to 22kW) chargers expect you to have your own with the car. Pretty much everyone has one in their car.
- wmf 3y agoIn what country? I've never seen a bring-your-own-cable charger in the US.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoYa, me neither. Public L2 chargers are either CCS or Tesla destination chargers.
- rsynnott 3y agoThis is a pretty common type of streetside charger in Ireland: https://cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/irishtimes/ZYWEIAB4EP2QTCC4UBO5ZUWFOI.jpg https://cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/iri... The ports on the side are for people to plug their charging cable into; charging cables aren't supplied. Here's one in use; note the non-matching cables: https://www.theaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/iStock-1442120736_d10180c09418e670e3fb4c0d2d032ac7_2000-1024x678.jpg https://www.theaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/iStock-14421...
- toast0 3y agoOTOH, there are lots of outdoor 110 vac outlets in the US if you look. Level 1 charging is terrible, but it's not nothing. Mostly tongue in cheek, I've never charged with a random outlet, but I've seen a lot.
- jnsaff2 3y agoI'm in NE-EU. Here the state is: - fast chargers: CCS cable is with the charging stations. - many more public chargers (supermarket parking spots, office parking, IKEA) are usually Type 2, I'd say about 90%+ of those don't have cables attached. - home chargers are also usually Type 2 and you either have cable attached permanently or use the same that is in the car.
- crote 3y agoIn Europe all EV drivers bring their own cable for low- to medium-power chargers. Only the high-power superchargers have permanently attached cables.
- johne20 3y agoIn the US it is not common. In EU the majority of EVs carry a cable in the vehicle for level 2 charging. At first I found it strange, but if you provide the cable instead having it built into level 2 EVSE (charger) its one less thing that can be broken or vandalized.
- jupp0r 3y agoIf I have to bring my own, it's one more thing of mine that can be broken or vandalized.
- oblio 3y agoIn the car?
- SoftTalker 3y agoThis is about parked cars. If you park you car and leave leave it with a removable charging cable connected to a socket in the curb, someone will just unplug it and walk away with it.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bberenberg 3y agoInteresting idea. Likely complex to solve for the various accessibility issues introduced from floor placement.
- rektide 3y agoChargers that pop out of the curb. Yes please. Here in DC we have a lot of food trucks, and their fumes and noise is a sad mark upon the area. I dream of a law where these things could be connected to the grid instead. Right now that's just a fantasy as there's not a real way to accomplish that objective, but tech like this is exactly what it would take! And more inverters setup to be powered off EV voltage levels.
- izacus 3y agoSince US failed to standardize chargers, Tesla will decide whether anyone is allowed to build such infrastructure. Will they allow it?
- rsynnott 3y agoEh? Pretty much all US electric cars these days have CCS charger ports, don't they?
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoAll non-Tesla cars except for Nissan use CCS.
- wmf 3y agoNot any more. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36079236 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36079236
- hnthrowaway8860 3y agoGreat idea to put things where dogs pee and poop.
- _Microft 3y agoGerman dogs prefer trees and corners.
- joot82 3y agoHydrants, lamps, bicycles, tires, ... anything that looks different from a standard curb. Not sure if doggy will be attracted by the cover when in ground, but by a nice oversized plug sticking out for sure.
- wongarsu 3y agoPeople will shame dog owners who allow their dogs to pee or poop on chargers. Which won't completely eliminate the problem, but should limit it. Not sure that would work in the US though.
- number6 3y agoJust once
- arnejenssen 3y agoI foresee some UX challenges with ice and snow during winter.
- rkagerer 3y agoIs this basically for cosmetic purposes?
- wmf 3y agoExisting pedestal chargers are large enough that they'd block the sidewalk.
- drewg123 3y agoI can't be certain, but it appears that the plugs are embedded in the curb stone and face directly upwards. What prevents water from collecting in them and causing a short?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- TheLoafOfBread 3y agoShort is actually better than the other more common failure mode - oxidation and creation of additional resistance in the connector to the point of not working at all (better case) or melting and catching fire when used (worse case)
- masfuerte 3y agoWouldn't you design it so water drains through?
- yayo88 3y agoHow would this work with the new regulations requiring the ability to offer at least two methods to pay for charging?
- unglaublich 3y agoNFC A or NFC B?
- pgeorgi 3y agoRFID payment cards by various networks, app on the phone with NFC.
- yayo88 3y agoMy biggest problem with all these public ev chargers is that there may be a chance they are no longer fit for purpose in a few years. All the installations for this “green” tech will need to be replaced.
- unglaublich 3y agoWhy? The most significant part of the investment is to make some kW or MW or power available at many locations. The chargers themselves are replaceable, that's fine.
- wmf 3y agoThis isn't wrong (Electrify America is replacing thousands of chargers) but it's also a generic contrarian dismissal that could apply to any new tech.
- 650REDHAIR 3y agoI wish I lived in a community where these wouldn’t get fucked around with left out in the open… I’ve been renting an EV for the last two weeks while my hybrid awaits repairs and it’s been a wonderful experience. I look forward to more charging options!
- tgsovlerkhgsel 3y agoI was very surprised by the company they chose for it, but from this perspective, it's definitely a great choice. If someone knows how to make things indestructible, it's them. (Rheinmetall is generally known as a military supplier, think "General Dynamics" or "BAE Systems". I didn't realize they made anything for civilian use.)
- glogla 3y ago> (Rheinmetall is generally known as a military supplier, think "General Dynamics" or "BAE Systems". I didn't realize they made anything for civilian use.) Yeah, I read the title and thought "is it for tanks?"
- tkanarsky 3y agoHeh, like how Teledyne makes showerheads and Honeywell makes thermostats.
- SoftTalker 3y agoMy thoughts exactly. In my downtown, those charging leads would be unplugged in 10 minutes and sold at the nearest scrap dealer.
- ikekkdcjkfke 3y agoI expect to see a lot of cronyism and scams related to green tech
- tempodox 3y agoMore EV chargers is a good idea, but having to bend down so far looks uncomfortable and may even be a problem for some people.
- balderdash 3y agoWhat are the core “limitations” of a charging pole? Is it aesthetics? Being able to drive over it? These look neat, but I’m a little vague as to the problem that is being solved?
- hgomersall 3y agoHaving the pavement obstructed by charging infrastructure. It's already hard enough in many places to navigate on foot (and even more so with a wheelchair or pushchair) without having additional obstacles to contend with.
- Robotbeat 3y agoI actually think that could be a good thing. EV chargers as bollards to protect pedestrian pathways.
- newaccount74 3y agoOn the one hand, I think that ICE cars should be banned from cities, the air would be much better, and these curbside chargers look like it could help with that. On the other hand, a city filled with parked EV cars is not very different from a city filled with ICE cars. Curbside parking should be abolished or at least significantly reduced. People should just park in underground garages and walk the remaining 200m, there's no need to have parking everywhere. It's much easier to install chargers in a garage.
- kleiba 3y agoCologne is a city with roots that reach back to the Roman empire. It has grown and developed over hundreds of years. Where would all these underground parking lots come from? Why not go a step further and demand that all roads should be put underground, too, so that pedestrians can enjoy an idle stroll on green meadors above ground without all the annoyances that come from car traffic?
- oblio 3y agoStreets? No, that's where people live, work. Roads? Sure! Stroads, too (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad)
- lmm 3y ago> Cologne is a city with roots that reach back to the Roman empire. It has grown and developed over hundreds of years. Where would all these underground parking lots come from? If car parking is a worthwhile use of space, the market will provide it (and whether below or above ground is beside the point). If it's not, it won't. > Why not go a step further and demand that all streets should be put underground, too, so that pedestrians can enjoy an idle stroll on green meadors above ground without all the annoyances that come from car traffic? It's a good idea, but we probably have to get there incrementally.
- kaveh_h 3y agoIn < 10 years or so we’ll have fully self driving cars. After some time there will smaller versions that can run on smaller roads even. By that time robo taxis won’t have to park in the central parts of cities but can simply park in cheaper parking spots further out or automatic garages.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoI think this is cool, but as the owner of a (non-Tesla) EV, I'd just be glad for chargers that usually work. People ask me sometimes if I have "range anxiety" - I don't really have range anxiety so much as charger anxiety. When I'm not at home my options are pretty much Chargepoint chargers, and there is an Electrify America DC fast charging station about 20 mins away. I'd say about 50% of the time the Chargepoint stations are non-functional in some way (either totally busted and have been for years, or the station just says "offline" or some such). I haven't had problems with the EA chargers but going by online forums my experience seems to be unusual - for a lot of folks their EA experience is even worse than my Chargepoint success rate. If all these other car companies plan to go 100% electric in the near future, they really need to invest in better charging infrastructure. Say what you will about Tesla but they understood the criticality of solving this problem early on, and their network is currently far better than anyone else's.
- chroma 3y agoThe other car manufacturers will probably negotiate deals with Tesla to gain access to the supercharger network. Ford has already done this.[1] 1. https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/05/25/ford-ev-customers-to-gain-access-to-12-000-tesla-superchargers--.html https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023...
- tomtheelder 3y agoI live in a high EV density region and it’s already a complete non issue. We have a good number of providers around here, and they are all mostly extremely reliable. Most of the time when I go to charge it will be a bank of 6+ chargers. Occasionally one isn’t working, but that’s not much different from a gas pump being out of service. Worst case I can always drive down the street to another bank. Like a lot of stuff with EVs, it’s just a question of demand reaching a certain level- which it will- before the services really hit their stride. It’s already happened in a good few places, and it will happen where you live in time.
- coffeebeqn 3y agoWhen I lived in Seattle I survived on my 30 mile range plug in hybrid without using gas almost ever because I could charge at work and at stores. This was commuting from the suburbs to downtown. And it’s only going to get better. Even in the Midwest I could do it but it would be slightly more of a hassle. Many grocery stores here already have free level 2 chargers. The distances are longer so I would definitely go full EV here if given the choice since at home garage charging is a given
- politician 3y agoDoes it rain there?
- nntwozz 3y agoLooks great for those without back problems. Esthetics before function.
- kleiba 3y agoI think that in the next iteraton, such curb stone chargers should be such that no interaction like manually plugging in a cable would be required.
- meindnoch 3y agoSounds efficient! Totally doable!
- nntwozz 3y agoIsn't that awfully inefficient and wasteful power transfer?
- kleiba 3y agoPerhaps with today's technology, but not with the technology of the future (tm).
- amenghra 3y agoWireless charging for some devices such as phones is 60-80% efficient. For cars, it seems to be in demand per "Several Companies Developing Wireless EV Charging": https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1235/tesla-is-developing-its-own-wireless-charging-solution https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1235/tesla-is-developing-i... If we can dream of self driving cars, we can dream of self-connecting cars. Something a bit like a toy slot car?
- Smoosh 3y ago94% grid-to-battery efficiency, according to this article on the SAE J2954 standard. https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1130055_wireless-ev-charging-gets-a-boost-single-standard-will-harmonize-systems-up-to-11-kw https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1130055_wireless-ev-cha...
- bad_alloc 3y agoWe don't need difficult to fix, hard to clean chargers in every curb. We need maintainable chargers which are gauranteed to work in some convenient location. Ideally 11kW to 22kW chargers at work and shopping places and proper fast chargers at every highway stop. This will cover most drivers needs, as daily charging is not needed. What is important is to have every location always have free charging spots, since arriving to find a single charger occupied or broken is one of the most common frustrations of finding charging spots. Source: I drive an EV all the time.
- amenghra 3y agoI slow charge at home, which covers my need for ~340 days per year. The remaining couple days, instead of dealing with broken chargers, I pick hotels with chargers and/or pick a reliable charging network to fast charge along the way (such as Tesla or Ionity). My experience so far is: - some hotels require you to unplug once you are done -- which can be annoying if you arrive in the evening and your car will be done charging at 4am. - some apps under report the number of charging spots. I noticed this on a recent, it showed 4 chargers when there were 4 physical chargers with 2 plugs each (effectively allowing 8 cars to charge at the same time). - winter vs summer makes a huge difference in EV range. I wish car makers published data for each season. - I wish car makers published the car charge graph for different types of chargers. My car consistently mis-predicts how long its going to take to charge (usually over-estimates the time, sometimes by a couple hours).
- franga2000 3y ago> some hotels require you to unplug once you are done -- which can be annoying if you arrive in the evening and your car will be done charging at 4am Doesn't the connector unlock when the car is full? I don't charge very often since I only use car sharing now, but I've peeked through a charging car's window, seen it's at 100% and unplugged their cable a couple of times now and it always worked.
- amenghra 3y agoThese spots either have a “cars not charging will be towed” sign or charge $/min once you are full. I doubt anyone would call a tow truck in the middle of the night. I haven’t bothered testing what happens if the car unlocks the cable, the thing will probably still charge the overages. I end up finding a time to charge during the day.
- amenghra 3y agoIt's nicer to add plugs to lamp posts. If you can retrofit existing posts, there's less electrical/digging work involved. If not, you are adding lighting at the same time. E.g. https://ubitricity.com/en/charging-solutions/ac-lamppost/ https://ubitricity.com/en/charging-solutions/ac-lamppost/
- azinman2 3y agoLamps use a specific voltage and amperage useful for lighting, not charging cars. You’d have to completely overhaul electricity to lamps, while also having a transformer for the lights, and at that point you might as well do something purpose built. Lamps are also not built next to each spot you’d park a car.
- amenghra 3y agoLondon has something like 1300 lampposts which can also be used to charge cars. You can slow charge with very little amps (eg 5A/1.3kWh). Some charge is better than no charge and it’s not too much of an issue if you are street parking for an entire day or night.
- ajsnigrutin 3y agoIt's just a plug... in the ground.. well, in a curb... Why is this innovative?! I was expecting some kind of automatic system, where you just park near it and it charges automatically... like an indentiation where you stop your rear tires in, and an automatic system takes over and plugs the car in as you leave.
- RetroHippyNimby 3y agoI worry we're replacing polluting ICE cars with just as many, polluting EVs. EVs pollute less than cars, but they produce a lot more tire dust and road wear, since those things scale exponentially with the weight of the vehicle. Tire dust has been shown to damage salmon populations and disrupt endocrine systems. Yes, improving infra for EVs is an incremental improvement, but we are decades too late for iterative improvements, we need to take more radical action.
- oceanplexian 3y agoWhy would you do this when you could hit a supercharger, conveniently next to a Starbucks or a Whole Foods, stop for 15 minutes and get a full charge? These look ridiculous and give EVs a bad look (Plugged into a big ugly yellow cord science experiment for hours). My back hurts just watching the lady in the promo bend over to plug it in. It’s like techies never bothered to consult a normal person, or attempt basic marketing.. which pretty much describes most electric cars and EV infrastructure, unfortunately.
- mc32 3y agoThe idea is good; but this implementation will not work. Curbs take a lot of kinetic knocks from cars, trucks and other vehicular traffic. If you have a snow season, these will get torn up. They have to be at least a meter high on sturdy posts --like the guard posts at service stations.
- its_ethan 3y agoYou seem pretty confident that no one can design a robust... plug? Set in concrete? Because of car tires and snow? Try having a little bit more faith in mechanical engineers pls
- mc32 3y agoGarbage trucks, delivery lorries loading and unloading in crowded places really wear and tear curbs. Have you ever seen pristine curbs in busy places (such as those where this would be practical?). Also very often people misjudge their car's clearance when pulling up and from time to time scrape the curb hard with the bottoms of their cars. And if it snows, a big snowplough coming through at night with diminished visibility almost invariably ends with torn up curbs. Maybe they plan on doing a lot of maintenance, otherwise this will end up not working.
- zdragnar 3y agoRoad salt alone in a city with actual winters will destroy these things... Not to mention that they'll be pretty thoroughly encased in ice and buried under feet of snow for months on end. Add onto that it is a completely inaccessible design from a disability accessibility perspective, and you have a nice proof of concept for something that wouldn't pass muster in many places. It needs to go back to the drawing board on pretty much every level before it could be considered for deployment where I live, at least.
- Roark66 3y agoI think if the goal is large scale electrification we're designing our electric cars wrong. Personally I'd love to have an electric car for the 99% of the driving I do. It could even have a small battery. ~25KWh would do, but on the other hand 1% of the time I do need to go few hundred km and back within a day without spending hours on charging. It seems silly to lug a huge ~100KWh+ battery just for this 1% of uses, then there is the issue of extra car cost and weight. What would be really cool is some sort of standardisation in removable battery tech. Imagine electric cars had only ~10-25KWh built in batteries and an ability to slot in "something" that could be another 75KWh of battery, a hybrid power unit, or anything else we might develop in future. Motorway services could have companies that lease out those batteries.
- jcarrano 3y agoImpractical on so many levels: - You have to bend down to use it- not good for grandpas or other people with accessibility problems. - Water and grit ingress will be a problem. - In Winter it will be covered in snow - The gravel they spread on the sidewalk will scratch the glass in no time. - When it is wet it will be all dirty and nasty. - Will have to withstand cars stepping on it and wheels rubbing against.
- herr_antwort 3y agoYes lets second guess German engineering.
- jcarrano 3y agoYes. I'm in Germany and working on chargers and I see as many good ideas as I see awful ones. Another thing I can tell you is that there is a tendency (i.e. "generalization that does not apply to individual cases") to over-complicate stuff.
- FooBarBizBazz 3y agoIt's generally a prudent idea to do just that, and buy a Toyota.
- felixg3 3y agoI would like to by a curb stone charger for my EV. Rheinmetall: Here, got you! Do you have any idea where I could buy a smoothbore tank gun? Rheinmetall: You won't believe it, but...
- chakintosh 3y agoMy back hurt just by looking at those images