5 ms·

Can you tl;dw the most compelling arguments?

diydsp 3y ago
Sure ive been meaning to review them and make a super compilation... tho I have a small backlog of projects... But the above reasons are the shortlist of health ones: sat fat, sugar, hormones, T1D, and Parkinsons. There are addl args along the lines of economics (subsidies that don't benefit large pops of minorities), animal welfare, osteoporosis, casein addictiom in cheese and similar. I've been wanting to collect, validate, and index all the references... but for now one has to get them from the videos. And some of them are actually in favor of milk, btw... but generally the ones in favor are single sources and /or by the dairy industry. But if you want strong bones and muscles, eat what strong animals like gorillas and bulls eat.
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  > But if you want strong bones and muscles, eat what strong animals like gorillas and bulls eat. Both of those animals have a fermentation based digestive system so they can digest fiber that humans can't. I'll take the diet and strength of a wolf or bear, thanks.
  - diydsp 3y ago
    Bears are not as carnivorous as some people might think: https://storyteller.travel/what-do-bears-eat/ https://storyteller.travel/what-do-bears-eat/
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > they can digest fiber that humans can't Some humans still have the ability, but most have lost it. It depends on you microbiome. But we still don't have to consume meat, not in this day and age, and with our supermarkets and online recipes. > I'll take the diet and strength of a wolf "Wolves are known to scavenge and consume dead or rotten meat when they come across it. Wolves have a remarkable ability to tolerate and digest decaying flesh. Scavenging on carcasses can be an important source of food for wolves, especially during times when hunting is challenging or prey is scarce." I'd like to see it ... please find some friends, and without weapons hunt and with your teeth and nails take down an elk or something. Then eat it raw. And if you're not successfull, find some carcass and enjoy ! Remember to start from the anus, where it's easier to tear.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > Some humans still have the ability, but most have lost it. Cannot edit. I was thinking of insoluble fiber, but cannot find the source. We can digest soluble fiber. Insoluble fiber we cannot digest, but we need it anyway.
- bluedevil2k 3y ago
  > if you want strong bones and muscles, eat what strong animals like gorillas and bulls eat. This is a really silly comparison, to compare humans to animals with different genetics, digestion traits and hormones. Male gorillas have MASSIVE amounts of testosterone and minimal myostatin. Their body doesn’t break down muscle. Humans are not like this at all, and if you disagree then please show me a vegetarian body builder, or even vegetarian elite strength athletes.
  - edmundsauto 3y ago
    Bill Pearl, 4x Mr. Olympia, is a very famous one. There are other successful bodybuilders who are vegan. Pretty trivial to google, so I'm not sure why you issued such a challenge but there ya go. "Meat is definitely not the secret to bodybuilding,” Bill Pearl later said. https://www.thebarbell.com/vegan-bodybuilder/#:~:text=Jehina%20Malik%20is%20the%20only,the%20muscle%2Dmaking%20nutritional%20staples https://www.thebarbell.com/vegan-bodybuilder/#:~:text=Jehina....
    - bluedevil2k 3y ago
      Bill Pearl became a vegetarian at age 39, at the end of his bodybuilding career. And he ate eggs and dairy products. And he was a body builder in the 50’s and 60’s. But other than that…great example!
    - TACIXAT 3y ago
      Bill Pearl speaks openly about steroid use.
      - bluedevil2k 3y ago
        I’m not defending OP, but steroids aren’t magic, you still need protein to build muscle.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    You need some strength and endurance to be ultra runner, yes? https://www.adaptnetwork.com/veganadventurist/8-most-successful-vegan-runners-triathletes/ https://www.adaptnetwork.com/veganadventurist/8-most-success... https://ultra-x.co/which-ultra-runners-are-plant-based-or-vegan/ https://ultra-x.co/which-ultra-runners-are-plant-based-or-ve...
- paulddraper 3y ago
  Can I eat what a T-Rex eats? Or what a shark eats? This argument is absurd.
jgoodhcg 3y ago
Didn’t watch that playlist but in general the arguments against cows milk are: - hormones from the cows and their supplements is in the milk and impacts our hormone system in negative ways - antibiotics used excessively in cows are in the milk and have negative affects on an individual level and might also contribute to the bacteria antibiotic arms race - saturated fats are generally bad and should be minimized in the human diet. Milk is full of them and they are direct causes of heart disease and other top killer health issues for people - sugar argument similar to saturated fats but for diabetes - milk production is generally inhumane in its treatment of animals and it’s on a pretty big scale
- loa_in_ 3y ago
  Three out of five are probably true in USA, but what about elsewhere?
- briHass 3y ago
  The thing that always bothers me about 'x is bad for you' arguments about food is: what is the alternative food that provides similar positive things without the supposed harms? I'm assuming the case here is against dairy in general, which can provide easily digestible protein, a mix of fats, and B vitamins with a minimal amount of carbohydrates. Besides lean meats and eggs, you aren't going to find other sources of those things in similar ratios in easy to consume quantities.
  - haldujai 3y ago
    The other thing with "[specific food/drink] is [good/bad] for you" is that it's nearly impossible to study at baseline with a million confounders so it's all hypothetical pseudoscience at best. Living a life of generally avoiding processed foods and sugar as well as emphasizing lean meats/protein and vegetables is probably the best thing any of us can do for ourselves whatever that combination may look like for an individual. Anyone who makes a claim that anything specific is beneficial is almost certainly talking out of their ass or selling a product. Recall the food pyramid, the greatest corporate pseudoscience scam ever pulled. There was also a generation that was told "butter is bad for your health". "- hormones from the cows and their supplements is in the milk and impacts our hormone system in negative ways - antibiotics used excessively in cows are in the milk and have negative affects on an individual level and might also contribute to the bacteria antibiotic arms race - saturated fats are generally bad and should be minimized in the human diet. Milk is full of them and they are direct causes of heart disease and other top killer health issues for people" None of this is supported by evidence, picking the last argument as an example: > Multiple reviews of the evidence have demonstrated that a recommendation to limit consumption of saturated fats to no more than 10% of total calories is not supported by rigorous scientific studies. Importantly, neither this guideline, nor that for replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturated fats, considers the central issue of the health effects of differing food sources of these fats. The 2020 DGAC review that recommends continuing these recommendations has, in our view, not met the standard of “the preponderance of the evidence” for this decision." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8541481/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8541481/

Sure ive been meaning to review them and make a super compilation... tho I have a small backlog of projects... But the above reasons are the shortlist of health ones: sat fat, sugar, hormones, T1D, and Parkinsons. There are addl args along the lines of economics (subsidies that don't benefit large pops of minorities), animal welfare, osteoporosis, casein addictiom in cheese and similar. I've been wanting to collect, validate, and index all the references... but for now one has to get them from the videos. And some of them are actually in favor of milk, btw... but generally the ones in favor are single sources and /or by the dairy industry. But if you want strong bones and muscles, eat what strong animals like gorillas and bulls eat.

amanaplanacanal 3y ago
> But if you want strong bones and muscles, eat what strong animals like gorillas and bulls eat. Both of those animals have a fermentation based digestive system so they can digest fiber that humans can't. I'll take the diet and strength of a wolf or bear, thanks.
- diydsp 3y ago
  Bears are not as carnivorous as some people might think: https://storyteller.travel/what-do-bears-eat/ https://storyteller.travel/what-do-bears-eat/
- myshpa 3y ago
  > they can digest fiber that humans can't Some humans still have the ability, but most have lost it. It depends on you microbiome. But we still don't have to consume meat, not in this day and age, and with our supermarkets and online recipes. > I'll take the diet and strength of a wolf "Wolves are known to scavenge and consume dead or rotten meat when they come across it. Wolves have a remarkable ability to tolerate and digest decaying flesh. Scavenging on carcasses can be an important source of food for wolves, especially during times when hunting is challenging or prey is scarce." I'd like to see it ... please find some friends, and without weapons hunt and with your teeth and nails take down an elk or something. Then eat it raw. And if you're not successfull, find some carcass and enjoy ! Remember to start from the anus, where it's easier to tear.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > Some humans still have the ability, but most have lost it. Cannot edit. I was thinking of insoluble fiber, but cannot find the source. We can digest soluble fiber. Insoluble fiber we cannot digest, but we need it anyway.
bluedevil2k 3y ago
> if you want strong bones and muscles, eat what strong animals like gorillas and bulls eat. This is a really silly comparison, to compare humans to animals with different genetics, digestion traits and hormones. Male gorillas have MASSIVE amounts of testosterone and minimal myostatin. Their body doesn’t break down muscle. Humans are not like this at all, and if you disagree then please show me a vegetarian body builder, or even vegetarian elite strength athletes.
- edmundsauto 3y ago
  Bill Pearl, 4x Mr. Olympia, is a very famous one. There are other successful bodybuilders who are vegan. Pretty trivial to google, so I'm not sure why you issued such a challenge but there ya go. "Meat is definitely not the secret to bodybuilding,” Bill Pearl later said. https://www.thebarbell.com/vegan-bodybuilder/#:~:text=Jehina%20Malik%20is%20the%20only,the%20muscle%2Dmaking%20nutritional%20staples https://www.thebarbell.com/vegan-bodybuilder/#:~:text=Jehina....
  - bluedevil2k 3y ago
    Bill Pearl became a vegetarian at age 39, at the end of his bodybuilding career. And he ate eggs and dairy products. And he was a body builder in the 50’s and 60’s. But other than that…great example!
  - TACIXAT 3y ago
    Bill Pearl speaks openly about steroid use.
    - bluedevil2k 3y ago
      I’m not defending OP, but steroids aren’t magic, you still need protein to build muscle.
- myshpa 3y ago
  You need some strength and endurance to be ultra runner, yes? https://www.adaptnetwork.com/veganadventurist/8-most-successful-vegan-runners-triathletes/ https://www.adaptnetwork.com/veganadventurist/8-most-success... https://ultra-x.co/which-ultra-runners-are-plant-based-or-vegan/ https://ultra-x.co/which-ultra-runners-are-plant-based-or-ve...
paulddraper 3y ago
Can I eat what a T-Rex eats? Or what a shark eats? This argument is absurd.

jgoodhcg 3y ago

Didn’t watch that playlist but in general the arguments against cows milk are: - hormones from the cows and their supplements is in the milk and impacts our hormone system in negative ways - antibiotics used excessively in cows are in the milk and have negative affects on an individual level and might also contribute to the bacteria antibiotic arms race - saturated fats are generally bad and should be minimized in the human diet. Milk is full of them and they are direct causes of heart disease and other top killer health issues for people - sugar argument similar to saturated fats but for diabetes - milk production is generally inhumane in its treatment of animals and it’s on a pretty big scale

loa_in_ 3y ago
Three out of five are probably true in USA, but what about elsewhere?
briHass 3y ago
The thing that always bothers me about 'x is bad for you' arguments about food is: what is the alternative food that provides similar positive things without the supposed harms? I'm assuming the case here is against dairy in general, which can provide easily digestible protein, a mix of fats, and B vitamins with a minimal amount of carbohydrates. Besides lean meats and eggs, you aren't going to find other sources of those things in similar ratios in easy to consume quantities.
- haldujai 3y ago
  The other thing with "[specific food/drink] is [good/bad] for you" is that it's nearly impossible to study at baseline with a million confounders so it's all hypothetical pseudoscience at best. Living a life of generally avoiding processed foods and sugar as well as emphasizing lean meats/protein and vegetables is probably the best thing any of us can do for ourselves whatever that combination may look like for an individual. Anyone who makes a claim that anything specific is beneficial is almost certainly talking out of their ass or selling a product. Recall the food pyramid, the greatest corporate pseudoscience scam ever pulled. There was also a generation that was told "butter is bad for your health". "- hormones from the cows and their supplements is in the milk and impacts our hormone system in negative ways - antibiotics used excessively in cows are in the milk and have negative affects on an individual level and might also contribute to the bacteria antibiotic arms race - saturated fats are generally bad and should be minimized in the human diet. Milk is full of them and they are direct causes of heart disease and other top killer health issues for people" None of this is supported by evidence, picking the last argument as an example: > Multiple reviews of the evidence have demonstrated that a recommendation to limit consumption of saturated fats to no more than 10% of total calories is not supported by rigorous scientific studies. Importantly, neither this guideline, nor that for replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturated fats, considers the central issue of the health effects of differing food sources of these fats. The 2020 DGAC review that recommends continuing these recommendations has, in our view, not met the standard of “the preponderance of the evidence” for this decision." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8541481/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8541481/