7 ms·

I Am No Longer Speaking at RustConf 2023

86 points by hardwaregeek 3y ago

dilawar 3y ago
r/rust mod on reddit has a good summary of timeline of events. https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/13sqdt7/i_am_no_longer_speaking_at_rustconf_2023_thephd/jlrmfar?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/13sqdt7/i_am_no_longe...
- omginternets 3y ago
  I can’t shake the feeling of someone making a mountain out of a molehill. I can understand the disappointment of being downgraded at the last minute, and can even understand the author’s desire to withdraw from the conference entirely, but there’s something to be said for doing so graciously. The Rust team’s decision is not prima facie unreasonable, and even if it isn’t perfect in its form, I don’t see any scandal beyond a bruised ego. It’s possible that there are missing elements to this story, but so far I just see a lack of class over a relatively minor injury. Have I missed something?
  - echelon 3y ago
    That summary isn't complete. The author wasn't originally interested in giving a keynote. The conference organizers tried to persuade them into do so! > It is patently obvious that somebody is pulling very weird strings behind the scenes here. At multiple junctures I said “it would be fine if we did not do this” or “I am unsure why they picked me”, but at multiple point I was told I should absolutely keep going and it was explicitly encouraged for me to go all the way with a keynote! > Individuals in contact with me both inside and outside RustConf leadership made it abundantly clearly that this topic was perfectly fine. Furthermore, they had already met to discuss my work before hand, so at no point should anyone be confused about what my intentions and goals are. Then the Rust Project later downgraded his talk after the author committed to giving it: > The sudden reversal smacks of shadowy decisions that are non-transparent to normal contributors like myself.
    - omginternets 3y ago
      Yes, and? This sounds like a case of clumsiness, not malice. By all means, withdraw, but why the need to publicly shame?
      - XAMPPRocky 3y ago
        Whether it’s malice or clumsiness isn’t relevant, it’s poor communication and process, which is the responsibility of leadership. The project leadership has continuously failed in these areas, and there has only been an effort to improve those things when they’ve been publicly called out. Without people openly communicating leadership failures, problems have often been ignored and maligned.
        omginternets 3y ago
        Yes, it is indeed their responsibility. It is also a minor thing. People sometimes drop the ball, sometimes repeatedly, especially in committees. Public shaming is generally reserved for egregious acts, and so needs to be justified. Attempting to shame people, without explaining what exactly happened, suggests a hissy fit. To be clear: I am willing to entertain the accusation that the Rust team is toxic, but that’s a case that needs to be … you know … actually argued.
        XAMPPRocky 3y ago
        People are free to speak their mind, they don’t have to justify that to you or anyone else. > Attempting to shame people, without explaining what exactly happened, suggests a hissy fit. Feels like self-projecting given how much you’re commenting in multiple threads to say “it’s not a big deal”, I don’t think someone who thinks it’s not a big deal would comment and try to argue so much if they actually thought it was.
        omginternets 3y ago
        Like it or not, there are social norms, one of which is that public accusations need to be substantiated. That is, I think, a reasonable expectation.
  - roarcher 3y ago
    > I don’t see any scandal beyond a bruised ego. This guy calls himself "The PhD". I suspect a bruised ego is a recurring affliction of his.
- arp242 3y ago
  Why are all the comments deleted on that thread, and why is it locked?
  - omoikane 3y ago
    The stickied comment says since nobody here has any more information and all we can do is uselessly speculate, I will be locking the comments so as to minimize the drama Maybe you are viewing a cached page before that comment was added?
    - arp242 3y ago
      > Maybe you are viewing a cached page before that comment was added? Or most likely I just missed it. Seems an odd way to run a community though.
  - pverghese 3y ago
    The mods dont want anymmore rust drama. Keeps happening every month like clockwork though for some reason
- tptacek 3y ago
  This is also the impression I got from the original post, and it seems deeply overblown and silly. Somebody correct me on this, but I don't think anybody in, like, the whole world cares whether a RustConf talk is a normal talk or a "keynote". The keynotes at the conferences I'm connected to tend, notoriously, to be the weakest at the event (no surprise, since there's no refereeing process to get them in).
  - omginternets 3y ago
    I think it’s fair to be disappointed, and I’m even open to the idea that the conference organizers fumbled. But yeah, the attempt at public shaming feels weird in light of the scant details. Calling out misbehavior is sometimes appropriate, but it kinda requires the accuser to describe exactly what happened.
  - pcwalton 3y ago
    I know absolutely nothing about the specifics of this incident (I don't even know who would have made this sort of decision) and it seems overblown to me as well. I wouldn't say "silly", because I don't discount the feelings of disappointment, but this stuff happens all the time without nefarious intent. My reaction as an outsider (and I have to reiterate I really am an outsider--I know nobody involved) is that this really isn't a big deal.
    - tptacek 3y ago
      Just, from the conferences I'm familiar with, while being a keynote speaker might have some status associated with it, a normal track talk is more legit than a keynote talk, just comparing talk with talk. Everyone know the keynote is invited, and they're talking to fill the space, not because their idea is so important it needs to come out now.
hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
This article needs a tldr, I’m not going to read 20 paragraphs to figure out if this article is even worth reading.
- deeviant 3y ago
  Feels like a /r/IAmTheMainCharacter/ post.
  - mberning 3y ago
    Strong “jilted lover” vibes
    - Ygg2 3y ago
      What makes you think that? ThePhD was asked to host a talk, wanted to refuse but got encouraged to proceed, then was told to downgrade talk. That move ruins trust. Say Rust project was funding the trip? Would you agree after getting jerked around before? I think the big problem is Rust project is operating in a WTF mode.
      - Double_a_92 3y ago
        The different category of the talk literally changed nothing about his talk... except maybe the duration and time schedule. It's not like they called it off last second after he had already prepared everything.
      - anonymousiam 3y ago
        Everyone involved is a person, and we are all subject to making mistakes. The organizers probably should not have pushed this as a keynote presentation, and they eventually realized their mistake. JeanHeyd Meneide saw this as a slight, but it was clearly not intended as such. It's probably a good thing that this post was flagged.
  - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
    [flagged]
cirrus3 3y ago
[flagged]
PeterWhittaker 3y ago
Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36090512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36090512
becausepc 3y ago
Details from the RustConf leadership: https://twitter.com/wifelette/status/1662938961248129025 https://twitter.com/wifelette/status/1662938961248129025 Seems to be the case of some influential toxic person(s) in the Rust Project. They can’t even be named apparently. (Yeah, like the He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named in the Harri Potter series.)
vpastore 3y ago
[flagged]

86 points by hardwaregeek 3y ago

r/rust mod on reddit has a good summary of timeline of events. https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/13sqdt7/i_am_no_longer_speaking_at_rustconf_2023_thephd/jlrmfar?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/13sqdt7/i_am_no_longe...

omginternets 3y ago
I can’t shake the feeling of someone making a mountain out of a molehill. I can understand the disappointment of being downgraded at the last minute, and can even understand the author’s desire to withdraw from the conference entirely, but there’s something to be said for doing so graciously. The Rust team’s decision is not prima facie unreasonable, and even if it isn’t perfect in its form, I don’t see any scandal beyond a bruised ego. It’s possible that there are missing elements to this story, but so far I just see a lack of class over a relatively minor injury. Have I missed something?
- echelon 3y ago
  That summary isn't complete. The author wasn't originally interested in giving a keynote. The conference organizers tried to persuade them into do so! > It is patently obvious that somebody is pulling very weird strings behind the scenes here. At multiple junctures I said “it would be fine if we did not do this” or “I am unsure why they picked me”, but at multiple point I was told I should absolutely keep going and it was explicitly encouraged for me to go all the way with a keynote! > Individuals in contact with me both inside and outside RustConf leadership made it abundantly clearly that this topic was perfectly fine. Furthermore, they had already met to discuss my work before hand, so at no point should anyone be confused about what my intentions and goals are. Then the Rust Project later downgraded his talk after the author committed to giving it: > The sudden reversal smacks of shadowy decisions that are non-transparent to normal contributors like myself.
  - omginternets 3y ago
    Yes, and? This sounds like a case of clumsiness, not malice. By all means, withdraw, but why the need to publicly shame?
    - XAMPPRocky 3y ago
      Whether it’s malice or clumsiness isn’t relevant, it’s poor communication and process, which is the responsibility of leadership. The project leadership has continuously failed in these areas, and there has only been an effort to improve those things when they’ve been publicly called out. Without people openly communicating leadership failures, problems have often been ignored and maligned.
      - omginternets 3y ago
        Yes, it is indeed their responsibility. It is also a minor thing. People sometimes drop the ball, sometimes repeatedly, especially in committees. Public shaming is generally reserved for egregious acts, and so needs to be justified. Attempting to shame people, without explaining what exactly happened, suggests a hissy fit. To be clear: I am willing to entertain the accusation that the Rust team is toxic, but that’s a case that needs to be … you know … actually argued.
        XAMPPRocky 3y ago
        People are free to speak their mind, they don’t have to justify that to you or anyone else. > Attempting to shame people, without explaining what exactly happened, suggests a hissy fit. Feels like self-projecting given how much you’re commenting in multiple threads to say “it’s not a big deal”, I don’t think someone who thinks it’s not a big deal would comment and try to argue so much if they actually thought it was.
        omginternets 3y ago
        Like it or not, there are social norms, one of which is that public accusations need to be substantiated. That is, I think, a reasonable expectation.
- roarcher 3y ago
  > I don’t see any scandal beyond a bruised ego. This guy calls himself "The PhD". I suspect a bruised ego is a recurring affliction of his.
arp242 3y ago
Why are all the comments deleted on that thread, and why is it locked?
- omoikane 3y ago
  The stickied comment says since nobody here has any more information and all we can do is uselessly speculate, I will be locking the comments so as to minimize the drama Maybe you are viewing a cached page before that comment was added?
  - arp242 3y ago
    > Maybe you are viewing a cached page before that comment was added? Or most likely I just missed it. Seems an odd way to run a community though.
- pverghese 3y ago
  The mods dont want anymmore rust drama. Keeps happening every month like clockwork though for some reason
tptacek 3y ago
This is also the impression I got from the original post, and it seems deeply overblown and silly. Somebody correct me on this, but I don't think anybody in, like, the whole world cares whether a RustConf talk is a normal talk or a "keynote". The keynotes at the conferences I'm connected to tend, notoriously, to be the weakest at the event (no surprise, since there's no refereeing process to get them in).
- omginternets 3y ago
  I think it’s fair to be disappointed, and I’m even open to the idea that the conference organizers fumbled. But yeah, the attempt at public shaming feels weird in light of the scant details. Calling out misbehavior is sometimes appropriate, but it kinda requires the accuser to describe exactly what happened.
- pcwalton 3y ago
  I know absolutely nothing about the specifics of this incident (I don't even know who would have made this sort of decision) and it seems overblown to me as well. I wouldn't say "silly", because I don't discount the feelings of disappointment, but this stuff happens all the time without nefarious intent. My reaction as an outsider (and I have to reiterate I really am an outsider--I know nobody involved) is that this really isn't a big deal.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    Just, from the conferences I'm familiar with, while being a keynote speaker might have some status associated with it, a normal track talk is more legit than a keynote talk, just comparing talk with talk. Everyone know the keynote is invited, and they're talking to fill the space, not because their idea is so important it needs to come out now.

hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago

This article needs a tldr, I’m not going to read 20 paragraphs to figure out if this article is even worth reading.

deeviant 3y ago
Feels like a /r/IAmTheMainCharacter/ post.
- mberning 3y ago
  Strong “jilted lover” vibes
  - Ygg2 3y ago
    What makes you think that? ThePhD was asked to host a talk, wanted to refuse but got encouraged to proceed, then was told to downgrade talk. That move ruins trust. Say Rust project was funding the trip? Would you agree after getting jerked around before? I think the big problem is Rust project is operating in a WTF mode.
    - Double_a_92 3y ago
      The different category of the talk literally changed nothing about his talk... except maybe the duration and time schedule. It's not like they called it off last second after he had already prepared everything.
    - anonymousiam 3y ago
      Everyone involved is a person, and we are all subject to making mistakes. The organizers probably should not have pushed this as a keynote presentation, and they eventually realized their mistake. JeanHeyd Meneide saw this as a slight, but it was clearly not intended as such. It's probably a good thing that this post was flagged.
- shrimp_emoji 3y ago
  [flagged]

cirrus3 3y ago

[flagged]

PeterWhittaker 3y ago

Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36090512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36090512

becausepc 3y ago

Details from the RustConf leadership: https://twitter.com/wifelette/status/1662938961248129025 https://twitter.com/wifelette/status/1662938961248129025 Seems to be the case of some influential toxic person(s) in the Rust Project. They can’t even be named apparently. (Yeah, like the He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named in the Harri Potter series.)

vpastore 3y ago

[flagged]