7 ms·

My point was Elon has an incredible track record of success which follows a formula of overhype, delays, and eventual achievement if not overachievement. You s

My point was Elon has an incredible track record of success which follows a formula of overhype, delays, and eventual achievement if not overachievement. You seem to have a more personal vendetta against him, I’m just looking at his insane success and envying hype/ management style

notmypenguin 3y ago
Easy there, cowboy, he’s had incredible success whipping his fans into frothing frenzies of self congratulatory adulation that would make a seesaw get dizzy. No other boss person since the mighty Steve has had this effect on the mass psyche, and Elon has arguably done a lot less. I claim teslas success is in spite of him, not because of him. Facts matter, and the SEC case was where I first realized his lack of leadership skill, and boasting about tanking his own stock price was not impressive. He’s not impressive, rather dull and low imagination if you ask me, which you didn’t, as you were busy falling over yourself to worship Elon Musk, who sounds like a cheap cologne
- ironSkillet 3y ago
  ...this...has to be a troll right? The guy helped bring space flight out of a stagnant era into commercial viability and put electric cars into the world's popular psyche.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> My point was Elon has an incredible track record of success which follows a formula of overhype, delays, and eventual achievement if not overachievement. His biggest success is the rocket industry. Let's examine top competitors - corrupt ULA which flies rockets on 50 year old engines and does cost+ contracts, his other competitor was Russia, a corrupt kleptocracy that stopped innovating when USSR fell apart. Russia would sell engines physically made in USSR to ULA. This market literally had no competition and no innovation for like 40 years. So yes, his great achievement is that he could march finance into an industry that no-one would consider for investment. But results in other industries were not so great. Tesla had a head start on electric, but they could not take advantage of this. Once other manufacturers woke up to the threat, it became clear Tesla has nothing on them, and car industry is fiercely competitive. His leadership was not good enough to take advantage of the head start he had and extremely high level of finance that he had. Where is cybertruck? Other automakers are already selling electric trucks. VW and even Chinese automakers are eating Tesla's lunch. Elon's boring company is an abject failure, as is hyperloop.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Cybertruck is delayed because people are still buying other high margin vehicles.
- pmorici 3y ago
  “ Tesla had a head start on electric, but they could not take advantage of this. Once other manufacturers woke up to the threat, it became clear Tesla has nothing on them, and car industry is fiercely competitive.” Is there any other car company in the world selling electric vehicles at a profit besides Tesla? Everyone else is losing money on their EVs most are losing a lot of money. Not only is Tesla profitable but they have better margins than many companies have on their gas cars.
  - what-the-grump 3y ago
    If you are looking to buy a car in 2023 and you are not looking at a model y or a model 3… Tesla is the only car to drop prices in 2023, and the only car that doesn’t feel like you are paying 50% more for whatever you got 3 years ago. Anything else at the 40-50k usd range is simply a joke compared to model y, and Tesla is simply eating the market right now.
    - throw9away6 3y ago
      Nah Tesla is just goosing the government subsidies hard. The ioniq5 is a great car just doesn’t qualify for inflation increase act subsidies
      - shushpanchik 3y ago
        If that's the case, why Tesla easily beats any other opponent overseas as well? Here, in Australia, they do not get any subsidies. Model 3 and Y sales are leaving all others, including Ioniq, far behind.
        KyeRussell 3y ago
JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
Success is measured by hypothetical subtraction. If you disappeared Tesla, SpaceX, Boring, Twitter and even Mr.Musk overnight, the world would look exactly the same the following morning. Try and disappear Apple, Microsoft, Cisco, Boeing, JPMorgan, BankofAmerica, Exxon, Royal Dutch Shell overnight. You'll have chaos and civil unrest within a week. That's where your quality of life comes from, sure it's not as exciting aas drinking the kool-aid of future Mars colonies and self driving cars and 100% domination in the EV cars sector, but at least it's real
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Actually, Ukraine said they would have lost already without starlink.
  - Retric 3y ago
    Hardly, Starlink has had some impact on Ukraine but not nearly that much. They have called it “critical” but they call a great many things critical, the actual use of Starlink still isn’t that common. The important bit for Ukrainian is Starlink is subsidized by other countries and it reduces the incentives for Russia to destroy communication infrastructure. Unfortunately because Russia is focusing less on communication infrastructure they get to focus more on other targets.
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      People following this closely disagree.
      - Retric 3y ago
        A few of those people do, but it’s a minority opinion. People say same seriously crazy shit about the Ukraine war, but the ground truth is fairly pedestrian as far as recent wars go.
- re-thc 3y ago
  > If you disappeared Tesla, SpaceX, Boring, Twitter and even Mr.Musk overnight, the world would look exactly the same the following morning. No it won't. Where would the Twitter trolls go? They'd flood the streets. If Twitter had disappeared no 1 can announce for president anymore!
Retric 3y ago
SpaceX has been quite successful, though it also came really close to failing. Solar city actually failed as an independent company. Boring company is floundering. Twitter is having massive issues. I think he’s done more harm to Tesla after taking it over from the original founders than been a benefit. It’s unclear but he definitely took massive risks which were unnecessary and has many serious failures such as how long their truck has slipped. All together not a bad track record, but also not nearly as impressive as many people seem to think. I don’t want to suggest it’s luck, but many companies that might have been successful which came that close to failure simply failed. We look back on people who happened to have passed those thresholds because they go past them not necessarily because they had a better approach.
- chii 3y ago
  > has many serious failures such as how long their truck has slipped. i wouldn't call the cybertruck a true failure, since it's effectively free marketing, and they don't have a real obligation to make a sale. Tesla's massive competitive moat is their battery making capacity. I do not believe the incumbent car manufacturers are able to catch up any time soon. It would be the chinese manufacturers of electric cars that pose the biggest threat to tesla, not the US/western incumbents.
  - Retric 3y ago
    Tesla is down to 54% of US EV sales (it’s much worse globally) and it’s been falling very quickly. So, their battery moat is basically gone, and the need for the recent price drop amid such rapidly expanding EV sales is a really bad sign. A significant part of that is they lack of a truck option considering how popular the Ford Lightning, Rivian, etc are. Alongside that is the general perception of stagnation among car buyers, the yoke was seen as a gimmick not the refresh the model S is in serious need of. They just keep fumbling. Consider the amount of bad press they got around the undersized breaks on the Plaid or their 1 foot rollout numbers. What could have been a real halo product did almost as much harm as it helped.
    - biaachmonkie 3y ago
bambax 3y ago
[flagged]
amitrip 3y ago
[dead]
freejazz 3y ago
> My point was Elon has an incredible track record of success Um what? He has a rocket company where he basically has absolutely no involvement at all...

notmypenguin 3y ago

Easy there, cowboy, he’s had incredible success whipping his fans into frothing frenzies of self congratulatory adulation that would make a seesaw get dizzy. No other boss person since the mighty Steve has had this effect on the mass psyche, and Elon has arguably done a lot less. I claim teslas success is in spite of him, not because of him. Facts matter, and the SEC case was where I first realized his lack of leadership skill, and boasting about tanking his own stock price was not impressive. He’s not impressive, rather dull and low imagination if you ask me, which you didn’t, as you were busy falling over yourself to worship Elon Musk, who sounds like a cheap cologne

ironSkillet 3y ago
...this...has to be a troll right? The guy helped bring space flight out of a stagnant era into commercial viability and put electric cars into the world's popular psyche.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

> My point was Elon has an incredible track record of success which follows a formula of overhype, delays, and eventual achievement if not overachievement. His biggest success is the rocket industry. Let's examine top competitors - corrupt ULA which flies rockets on 50 year old engines and does cost+ contracts, his other competitor was Russia, a corrupt kleptocracy that stopped innovating when USSR fell apart. Russia would sell engines physically made in USSR to ULA. This market literally had no competition and no innovation for like 40 years. So yes, his great achievement is that he could march finance into an industry that no-one would consider for investment. But results in other industries were not so great. Tesla had a head start on electric, but they could not take advantage of this. Once other manufacturers woke up to the threat, it became clear Tesla has nothing on them, and car industry is fiercely competitive. His leadership was not good enough to take advantage of the head start he had and extremely high level of finance that he had. Where is cybertruck? Other automakers are already selling electric trucks. VW and even Chinese automakers are eating Tesla's lunch. Elon's boring company is an abject failure, as is hyperloop.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
Cybertruck is delayed because people are still buying other high margin vehicles.
pmorici 3y ago
“ Tesla had a head start on electric, but they could not take advantage of this. Once other manufacturers woke up to the threat, it became clear Tesla has nothing on them, and car industry is fiercely competitive.” Is there any other car company in the world selling electric vehicles at a profit besides Tesla? Everyone else is losing money on their EVs most are losing a lot of money. Not only is Tesla profitable but they have better margins than many companies have on their gas cars.
- what-the-grump 3y ago
  If you are looking to buy a car in 2023 and you are not looking at a model y or a model 3… Tesla is the only car to drop prices in 2023, and the only car that doesn’t feel like you are paying 50% more for whatever you got 3 years ago. Anything else at the 40-50k usd range is simply a joke compared to model y, and Tesla is simply eating the market right now.
  - throw9away6 3y ago
    Nah Tesla is just goosing the government subsidies hard. The ioniq5 is a great car just doesn’t qualify for inflation increase act subsidies
    - shushpanchik 3y ago
      If that's the case, why Tesla easily beats any other opponent overseas as well? Here, in Australia, they do not get any subsidies. Model 3 and Y sales are leaving all others, including Ioniq, far behind.
      - KyeRussell 3y ago

JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago

Success is measured by hypothetical subtraction. If you disappeared Tesla, SpaceX, Boring, Twitter and even Mr.Musk overnight, the world would look exactly the same the following morning. Try and disappear Apple, Microsoft, Cisco, Boeing, JPMorgan, BankofAmerica, Exxon, Royal Dutch Shell overnight. You'll have chaos and civil unrest within a week. That's where your quality of life comes from, sure it's not as exciting aas drinking the kool-aid of future Mars colonies and self driving cars and 100% domination in the EV cars sector, but at least it's real

mensetmanusman 3y ago
Actually, Ukraine said they would have lost already without starlink.
- Retric 3y ago
  Hardly, Starlink has had some impact on Ukraine but not nearly that much. They have called it “critical” but they call a great many things critical, the actual use of Starlink still isn’t that common. The important bit for Ukrainian is Starlink is subsidized by other countries and it reduces the incentives for Russia to destroy communication infrastructure. Unfortunately because Russia is focusing less on communication infrastructure they get to focus more on other targets.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    People following this closely disagree.
    - Retric 3y ago
      A few of those people do, but it’s a minority opinion. People say same seriously crazy shit about the Ukraine war, but the ground truth is fairly pedestrian as far as recent wars go.
re-thc 3y ago
> If you disappeared Tesla, SpaceX, Boring, Twitter and even Mr.Musk overnight, the world would look exactly the same the following morning. No it won't. Where would the Twitter trolls go? They'd flood the streets. If Twitter had disappeared no 1 can announce for president anymore!

Retric 3y ago

SpaceX has been quite successful, though it also came really close to failing. Solar city actually failed as an independent company. Boring company is floundering. Twitter is having massive issues. I think he’s done more harm to Tesla after taking it over from the original founders than been a benefit. It’s unclear but he definitely took massive risks which were unnecessary and has many serious failures such as how long their truck has slipped. All together not a bad track record, but also not nearly as impressive as many people seem to think. I don’t want to suggest it’s luck, but many companies that might have been successful which came that close to failure simply failed. We look back on people who happened to have passed those thresholds because they go past them not necessarily because they had a better approach.

chii 3y ago
> has many serious failures such as how long their truck has slipped. i wouldn't call the cybertruck a true failure, since it's effectively free marketing, and they don't have a real obligation to make a sale. Tesla's massive competitive moat is their battery making capacity. I do not believe the incumbent car manufacturers are able to catch up any time soon. It would be the chinese manufacturers of electric cars that pose the biggest threat to tesla, not the US/western incumbents.
- Retric 3y ago
  Tesla is down to 54% of US EV sales (it’s much worse globally) and it’s been falling very quickly. So, their battery moat is basically gone, and the need for the recent price drop amid such rapidly expanding EV sales is a really bad sign. A significant part of that is they lack of a truck option considering how popular the Ford Lightning, Rivian, etc are. Alongside that is the general perception of stagnation among car buyers, the yoke was seen as a gimmick not the refresh the model S is in serious need of. They just keep fumbling. Consider the amount of bad press they got around the undersized breaks on the Plaid or their 1 foot rollout numbers. What could have been a real halo product did almost as much harm as it helped.
  - biaachmonkie 3y ago

bambax 3y ago

[flagged]

amitrip 3y ago

[dead]

freejazz 3y ago

> My point was Elon has an incredible track record of success Um what? He has a rocket company where he basically has absolutely no involvement at all...