31 ms·
SR-71 Blackbird Speed Check Story
- rationalist 3y agoIt's a great story that I loved reading, but I'm skeptical by nature: Has there ever been any other recorded witness to this story? Obviously there was at least 3 other pilots and an air traffic controller, but I imagine there were more people on frequency at the time. Additionally, can ATC equipment even depict that speed? For example, modern U.S. ATC equipment will not indicate the altitude of anything above FL600. I remember there being a reddit comment that had quite a few upvotes debunking the story, but I can't remember what their reasons were.
- joezydeco 3y agoI found this on Reddit which matches up. It's another SR-71 pilot that says the military aircraft wouldn't even be on the same radio frequency. But military does transit commercial space from time to time so you never know. https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/xis19w/reddits_beloved_sr71_speed_check_story_is/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/xis19w/reddits_be... But, then again, doing Mach 2.8 in Class A airspace is kind of unrealistic. And noisy.
- aidenn0 3y agoI assume they were in Class E (TFA says "uncontrolled airspace" which E is technically not, but a reasonable assumption) above Class A.
- nicoburns 3y ago> But, then again, doing Mach 2.8 in Class A airspace is kind of unrealistic. My understanding is that the SR-71 flies so high (up to 90,000 feet) that they can go as fast as they like because there's nothing else up that high.
- suzzer99 3y agoI wonder how loud a sonic boom from that high is at ground level.
- khuey 3y agohttps://www.nasa.gov/centers/armstrong/news/FactSheets/FS-016-DFRC.html https://www.nasa.gov/centers/armstrong/news/FactSheets/FS-01... suggests that the SR-71 produces a relatively small sonic boom at high altitude.
- bumby 3y agoI was visiting with a friend in the desert when Virgin Galactic made it's initial flight into space. I don't know how high they were when they passed overhead, but it certainly audible and rattled the garage door. Edit: after a quick search, the VSS Unity is released from the carrier at 50k feet. But now I can't recall if the boom was on the ascent or on the way back.
- kkylin 3y agoWhat I very vaguely remember, from an airshow at Edwards AFB commeorating the 50th anniversary of Chuck Yeager's 1947 flight in the X-1, is that it is clearly audible, but not so window-shakingly loud as when an F-16 went supersonic below 10,000 feet (which they weren't supposed to) where I live. (The latter happened several years ago during Thunderbirds practice.)
- suzzer99 3y agoI've heard a sonic boom out at Joshua Tree taking pictures at night. I thought a bomb went off until I saw the blur flying across the sky and figured out what it was.
- jasonwatkinspdx 3y agohttps://theaviationgeekclub.com/did-you-know-the-sr-71-blackbird-sonic-booms-shattered-the-windows-of-kelly-johnson-zsa-zsa-gabor-and-president-nixons-houses/ https://theaviationgeekclub.com/did-you-know-the-sr-71-black... Some of these incidents are probably false or exaggerated, but it does seem it produced enough of a boom to route away from cities.
- timerol 3y agoLater in that thread someone mentions that the SR-71 has 4 radios (like the story mentioned) 2 UHF, 1 VHF, and 1 HF. So despite not being on the same frequency for most communications, they were definitely capable of monitoring and transmitting on civilian frequencies. A bored radio operator on yet another training flight could easily be listening into civilian radio traffic.
- _whiteCaps_ 3y agoNot an SR-71, but a couple of weeks ago I was listening to a pilot/amateur radio operator making contacts on the 20m band while he flew from Texas to Nevada. I'm assuming their radios are a bit more flexible on what frequencies they can transmit on. Edit -- Found him: https://www.qrz.com/db/K4RNN https://www.qrz.com/db/K4RNN
- dboreham 3y agoMilitary aviation uses non-military frequencies to communicate with ATC, which they do except when operating in closed airspace. E.g. ATC is notified by the pilot of each aircraft entering the sidewinder low level training route in southern CA.
- rationalist 3y agoIt was a different thread that I remember. Someone posted the story as a submission, and one of the top-level comments was debunking it. My Google-fu used to be extremely good, back when Google was a good search engine, otherwise I would have found it by now and posted the link. I like the effect that the story has had, but I dislike the idea that it might have been an exaggeration. The author of Sled Driver made a lot of appearances/talks, but I don't know how much he was paid for them. - The author states he doesn't normally monitor the frequencies as that was the other person's job, but the one time he does monitor, this happens? Either things like this happen all of the time, in which case there would be plenty of people sharing their version of these kinds of stories, or the pilot got extremely lucky in his timing.
- mcphage 3y agoFor me this is one of those things that's such a fun story, it hardly matter if it's actually true.
- GCA10 3y agoOh, it does matter. I've made a living at times from non-fiction storytelling, and if you don't get in the habit of sticking to the facts, it's shamefully easy to slide ever closer to George Santos territory. But there's a compromise that will keep us both happy. Nothing wrong with having this go into the "legends" category -- where it's harmless fun to keep them circulating. Just as long as we know that this isn't quite how everything works.
- alistairSH 3y agoI always assume stories like these are "fish tales" - there's a nugget of truth in there somewhere, but with each retelling, the story gets more exaggerated.
- jacquesm 3y agoAs a US friend of mine puts it: "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story".
- dang 3y agoRelated. Others? The Ground Speed Check – Tales from the Blackbird - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36030304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36030304 - May 2023 (1 comment) SR-71 Blackbird's ground speed check story - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25733807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25733807 - Jan 2021 (12 comments) SR-71 Blackbird 'Speed Check' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18101839 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18101839 - Sept 2018 (1 comment) SR-71 Blackbird Pilot Trolls Arrogant Fighter Pilot with Ground Speed Check - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10902209 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10902209 - Jan 2016 (3 comments)
- jabl 3y agoPerhaps this is on occasion of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36028041 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36028041
- dang 3y agoThanks! Macroexpanded: SR-71 pilot, photographer and storyteller Brian Shul dies at 75 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36028041 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36028041 - May 2023 (47 comments)
- idlewords 3y agoHave you thought of making an evergreen page for frequently reposted stories like this?
- teachrdan 3y agoMy favorite version of this story, from u/buryat: SR-71 speed check One time we were going fast a small plane got on the radio and said "how fast am i going" the tower said "you are going fast" and then a bigger plane got on the radio and said "haha i think i am going faster how fast am i going" and the tower said "you are going a little faster" and then a jet fighter was going really fast and talked like a really cool guy and said "hey there, I sound like a cool guy, tell me how fast I'm going" and the tower said "you are going very fast" but he sounded totally normal And then I wanted to say something but that was against the rules, and then the other guy in my plane said "hey tower, are we going fast" and the tower said "yes you are going like a million fast" and then the guy in my plane said "I think it's a million and one fast" and then the tower said "lol yeah ur plane is good" and then I said "did we just become best friends" and the other guy said "yes" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29373436 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29373436
- michaelteter 3y agoI never tire of that story. Growing up in an aviation family, I have heard endless cool stories (but few so cool). One of my favorites was when my grandfather was flying when the F15 was in early flight development. The skies were much less busy, and there was a bit less formality. Ground knew who was where, so it asked my grandfather, “would you like to see something interesting?” GD agreed, and moments later an F15 pulled up alongside him, pointed at an upward angle and maintaining what was a slow flight speed for it. The two pilots were close enough to exchange waves, and moments later the F15 rocketed away. Most likely that day, the F15 was the fastest thing in the air for several hundred miles.
- hinkley 3y agoThe SR-71's actual top speed was classified, and the 'official' top speed was faster than anything else in production. At several points growing up someone would come up with a new plane that encroached on the SR-71's speed record. Then a couple weeks later there would be an announcement about the SR-71 setting a new top speed. I suspect someone in Intelligence had to decide that being officially the fastest was important, but exactly how fast being a secret made the plane and pilot a little bit safer. So they had to nudge the fiction a little bit closer to the truth any time there was a pretender. Or, manufacturing improvements nudged the maximum safe speed up over time, and they only bothered updating the public about this when a dick measuring contest was held in their honor. Or maybe both.
- chipsa 3y agoThat said, we both know the shape of the SR-71, and the Compressor Inlet Temperature limit. The shape determines the smallest Mach angle that the entire plane fits inside, which gives a value for the maximum speed. The CIT limit gives a value for the maximum speed, which is roughly the same as the Mach angle value, at approximately Mach 3.3. To go faster, the plane would have to be skinnier, or the wing tips would poke beyond the Mach cone, and the entire tip would generate it's own set of shockwaves, which would most likely result in a sharp increase in temperature for the part outside the cone (which can be read as: the wing tips melt off).
- 542458 3y agoThis might be a dumb question, but isn’t that the maximum sustained speed for the plane, and higher speeds would be possible for short bursts? (as in, before the wing tips get hot enough to melt off)
- jabl 3y agoYes, that is correct, though I guess an issue would be that the drag would increase sharply if parts of the plane is sticking out of the shockwave, necessating even more thrust.
- gcanyon 3y agoTo me the "slowest speed" story is better: https://www.thesr71blackbird.com/Aircraft/Stories/sr-71-blackbird-the-slowest-flyby https://www.thesr71blackbird.com/Aircraft/Stories/sr-71-blac...
- NKosmatos 3y agoI've read/seen both of these stories many times and everytime I come across them, I re-read them :-) Can't get enough of SR-71 stories.
- sambeau 3y agoAnd if you're in the UK, you can go and visit her at Duxford https://www.iwm.org.uk/events/american-air-museum https://www.iwm.org.uk/events/american-air-museum
- jabl 3y agoMy favorite SR-71 story. Must have been sight to behold down on the ground seeing the plane blast by at full afterburner.
- AlbertCory 3y agoI've seen the video of Brian telling this story. This is a master class in story-telling. It's the polar opposite of "keep it simple, get to the point, etc. etc." He's got you in the palm of his hand, and he's going to keep you there as long as he wants to.
- mholt 3y agoGreat story. Brian Shul died just a few days ago. :( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Shul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Shul
- mackeyja92 3y agoOh man, this sucks. Learning about it from your comment. I always wanted to go see one of his speeches. I remember seeing them on YouTube and they were great. His story is truly inspirational. His books are incredible as well. I was gifted signed copies of Sled Driver and The Untouchables and I honestly treasure them. Guess I’ll just have to read them again today.
- austinl 3y agoI’d recommend reading Skunk Works by Ben R. Rich for more on the engineering of the Blackbird and other special aviation projects. I knew the Blackbird was fast, but didn’t quite realize how fast until reading this book. The SR-72 would cruise at Mach 3, or three times the speed of sound. It would do this at 80,000 feet, over twice the traditional cruising altitude of a 747. Even at this height, where the temperature is -60°F, friction would cause the fuselage to heat to 600°F. This would melt traditional aircraft, so the plane was built with titanium (ironically supplied by the Soviet Union). The Blackbird used to overfly North Korea five days a week in just ten minutes.
- nehal3m 3y agoAccording to this [0] article it leaks fuel sitting on the runway because: "The fuel system of the SR-71 could not be sealed permanently because there simply were no sealants that were flexible and durable enough to deal with those kind of temperatures and shrinking-expansion cycles." I think that says enough about how bonkers fast that thing is. [0] https://nodum.org/was-sr-71-blackbird-leaking-fuel/ https://nodum.org/was-sr-71-blackbird-leaking-fuel/
- SkyMarshal 3y agoYeah, heat expansion made it airtight at Mach 3, but sitting on a runway with its parts contracted back to normal dimensions, it had leaks.
- GartzenDeHaes 3y agoNot just on the runway. The hangers had big drains in them to catch the fuel and anyone unfortunate enough to have to work under the plane would get soaked. "Hey, I think the plane is leaking" -- me.
- SkyMarshal 3y ago/second that book, one of the best on US aviation history and engineering. Also iirc, ironically the technique for shaping the F-117 to reflect away radar came from a Soviet journal article on shaping nosecones to minimize their interference on radar emanating from them.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- alberth 3y agoTwo things: 1. The HN link should be to the actual video of the retired pilot telling the story firsthand. That's below https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AyHH9G9et0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AyHH9G9et0 2. Most former SR-71 pilots consider the story not true, but it's a fun story to hear nonetheless. https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/xis19w/reddits_beloved_sr71_speed_check_story_is/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/xis19w/reddits_be...
- moron4hire 3y agoThe story mentions: "There he was, with no really good view of the incredible sights before us, tasked with monitoring four different radios. This was good practice for him for when we began flying real missions, when a priority transmission from headquarters could be vital." Just because military aircraft don't use the same frequencies as commercial aircraft doesn't mean this SR-71 crew on a training mission wasn't listening in on commercial air traffic frequencies.
- JackFr 3y agoFirst the Flaming Hot Cheetos Inventor and now the SR-71 Speed Check? What's next? Am I gonna find out that every TED talk is basically BS?
- jaggederest 3y ago> Am I gonna find out that every TED talk is basically BS? Uh, hi, I have bad news for you about the quality and consistency of TED talks...
- moron4hire 3y agoThat's kinda the joke
- jaggederest 3y agoYes I just chuckled so I played along. Now I'm meta-explaining, which is also a good joke.
- unionemployee 3y agoUgh. Aviation before, say, 1990 was amazing. Still necessary to do things like ground speed checks, non-radar approaches, VOR to VOR, etc. Real pilot sh*t. And lots of the equipment going back decades was still flying. An amazing time to be a pilot. Now everything is so optimized and dumbed down. I was born too late.
- nohankyou 3y agoExactly, I love pre-glass instrumentation. I still fly DME arcs manually all the time... in flight simulator. I have flown gliders though, which helps avoid excessive technology.
- unionemployee 3y agoHa. I did fly a real non-radar DME arc in a PC-12 using just the bearing pointer...once.
- camel_gopher 3y agoFarmer: "Slow?" ATC: "Yes" Playboy: "Fast?" ATC: "No" Stick Jockey: "Fast right?" ATC: "Not bad" Sled Driver: "Oh hai" ATC: "Yup goes to 11"
- ftxbro 3y agothey should just put this one on automatic rotation on the hacker news front page like the promoted ycombinator startup ads
- anonymousiam 3y agoRIP Brian Shul.
- RoyGBivCap 3y agoI made a crude map of their sub-3 hour training route, it's mind boggling: https://i.imgur.com/ZwcgwsI.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ZwcgwsI.jpg
- not1ofU 3y agoSurprised no-one has posted this yet: The Insane Engineering of the SR-71 Blackbird: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hYSnyVLmGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hYSnyVLmGE
- linsomniac 3y agoRIP sled driver.
- pwndByDeath 3y agoFun fact https://theaviationgeekclub.com/sr-71-or-rs-71-how-the-legendary-blackbird-got-her-designation/amp/ https://theaviationgeekclub.com/sr-71-or-rs-71-how-the-legen...
- shybear 3y agoOn a related note to the article, the book “Skunk Works” by Ben Rich and Leo Janos tells the story of the SR-71 and other secret aviation projects in a fascinating detail. Highly recommend.
- donglebix 3y agoThis is the last story I read to my dad that really made him smile, laugh and cry almost all at once... He had dementia and passed away a few months later after a life in civil aviation.
- jsonjason 3y agoI'm a simple man. I see the Blackbird speed check story, I click.