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Disney cancels plans to relocate 2,000 jobs to Florida
- Clubber 3y agoDeStantis' statements made it obvious this is political retaliation for speaking out against his legislation. I don't particularly care for either party, but Florida taxpayers are going to end up paying the bill both in settlement money and in lost jobs due to the government open hostility / retribution towards their first amendment rights. https://reason.com/2023/05/16/ron-desantis-confirms-again-that-his-attack-on-disney-was-political-retribution/ https://reason.com/2023/05/16/ron-desantis-confirms-again-th...
- andrewclunn 3y ago[flagged]
- belltaco 3y ago> Teachers preying on kids in school? First Amendment right! Got any sources or references I can read that backs this up?
- andrewclunn 3y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_aRzXXCv4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_aRzXXCv4s
- scarface74 3y agoThere are no teachers in Florida trying to turn your kids gay.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- clipsy 3y ago> Kids praying in school? Violation of church and state. Teachers preying on kids in school? First Amendment right! Everything's so simple when you just live in a fantasy world.
- faefox 3y agoIf you're really so worried about teachers preying on your kids (ah, the latest conservative boogeyman rears its head!) sending them to a religious school is statistically speaking the last thing you should do.
- smt88 3y agoJust to be clear, you believe that using a child's preferred pronouns, talking about periods, and acknowledging the existence of homosexuality are all "preying on kids"? Like if I were a gay teacher with a husband and said something about my husband, I'm preying on kids? Or if a school nurse tells a little girl not to be freaked out when she gets her period, that's preying on kids?
- howinteresting 3y ago> Just to be clear, you believe that using a child's preferred pronouns A lot of conservatives do sincerely believe that. They're wrong, of course, but this is an actual belief that a lot of right-wing people (including right-wing medical professionals) both in the US and in Europe share.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- howinteresting 3y agoFlorida taxpayers get what they voted for, good and hard.
- smt88 3y agoMillions of them did not vote for this and will suffer anyway.
- howinteresting 3y agoTrue, and normal people should find ways to get them out as soon as possible.
- Clubber 3y agoUnfortunately there is no recall statute in Florida, they are stuck with him. https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_governing_recall_in_Florida#:~:text=Florida%20recall%20law%20does%20not,recall%20of%20elected%20state%20officials https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_governing_recall_in_Florida#:~:....
- toast0 3y agoFlorida voters could pass an initiative to add recalls to their constitution, presumably. And initiate a recall if it passes. A pretty high bar, but potentially doable.
- gizmo686 3y agoThis isn't so much about hostility to first amendment rights, as it us about hostility to a massive and beloved corporation. Disney is the second largest employer in the state. Pays the state over $1billion in taxes, of the state's $100billion budget [1]. And has over 50 million anual visitor's in its Florida parks in a (pre pandemic) year; which is more than twice Florida's population [2], and about a third of their anual tourists [3]. If I were a politician, this is not a fight I would want to take on. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/data-download/enormous-numbers-desantis-fight-disney-rcna81019 https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/data-download/enormou... [1] https://www.floridapolicy.org/posts/florida-house-and-senate-fy-2023-24-budget-proposals-what-to-know-ahead-of-the-joint-budget-conference https://www.floridapolicy.org/posts/florida-house-and-senate... [2] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/FL https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/FL [3] https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/florida-tourism-hits-record-number-in-2022/ https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/florida-tourism-hits-reco...
- nocoiner 3y agoI live in a republican sun belt state where the legislature’s politics have never matched my own (at least not as long as I’ve been able to vote), but until pretty recently, it was generally all mostly in the vein of smallish government, business friendly conservatism. Not necessarily my favorite, but not a dealbreaker. Now they’re tacking hard right on social issues, threatening to cripple our quite good public university systems, and trying to strip local governments of any meaningful self determination. Joke’s on me I guess, since I’m most likely not going to move my family, so looks like I’m gonna just bend over and take it. But it feels like we’re in the process of actively destroying our future and any remaining attraction for dynamic folks who might consider relocating or starting businesses here.
- yamtaddle 3y agoSimilar situation (but not in the sun belt). Lived in this area all my life, always been a lot farther "left" on basically everything than the state's government, never been that big a deal aside from our taxes being way higher than they ought to be for how bad/absent government services are (which, to be fair, at least some poorly-governed red states have the good taste to also be low-tax—just not ours). Now? We're moving to a blue state, and don't consider it optional. Republicans got weirder after Palin, but have gone batshit crazy post-Trump. They're coming for schools & teachers. They're coming for libraries. My daughters might not be able to get medical care they need, as they get older (and no, not just abortions—my wife's gone through miscarriages and other issues that she'd have had to go out-of-state to treat under current laws, and has never had an abortion). God-for-fucking-bid any of my kids end up being LGBT and have to see their state governor working hard to make their lives worse. It's gone from a tolerable, if not ideal, situation I'd intended to stick out indefinitely and had been living with relatively contentedly for decades, to plainly intolerable, in a hurry. Way too much risk in sticking around. [EDIT] I don't mean that as criticism of your probably sticking around, to be clear. If our situation were different, we might too (or might not really have a choice).
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
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- CharlesW 3y agoThe veiled threat of, "We have plans to invest $17 billion and create 13,000 jobs [in Florida] over the next ten years. I hope we’re able to do so." is interesting. Disney is making it clear that this is potentially only the beginning.
- nocoiner 3y agoI wouldn’t call it veiled, or even much of a threat for that matter. It’s a rational actor plainly stating facts that are readily apparent to everyone. There’s no good reason why the corporation should make any future significant investments in a state where the legal and regulatory regime is not only unpredictable but currently openly hostile. They’ve got a pretty, pretty big sunk cost in the state, so it’s not like they’re going to pick up and move, but it seems like it would be a pretty poor use of company resources to spend more than necessary in Florida right now.
- yeahwhatever10 3y ago[flagged]
- jdlshore 3y agoPlease don’t engage in whataboutism. It’s inflammatory and lowers the quality of discourse.
- rickboyce 3y agoI think if anything it demonstrates that Disney are playing with a relatively weak hand here. Disney have a broader problem - they are not the only player in central Florida. Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World is the most attended theme park in the world… but Universal just down the road hold the number 2 and 3 slots. Yes, WDW is the most attended group of parks on the planet, but Universal are on an epic roll and have a 3rd Florida gate under construction. It’s not just that Disney can’t pack up WDW and move it to a state friendlier to them. They can’t pack up the critical mass of demand drawn to central Florida either - replicating that elsewhere would take decades. I don’t think that the Florida legislature are that worried about whether Disney will create however many thousand jobs. They know full well the central Florida tourism market is a juggernaut that’s not slowing down anytime soon and that Disney will maximise their presence in this market regardless of the political climate. Keeping some corporate and creative jobs in California instead of relocating them to Florida is fairly small fry in that context.
- darth_avocado 3y agoI guess someone is finding out.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- laristine 3y agohttps://archive.is/dXByl https://archive.is/dXByl
- jmclnx 3y agoTo me, investing in FL is a long term looser, not because pf politics but because of Climate Change. It has been there for a bit over 50 years, 50 years from now, the potential exists that it will be a place only mermaids can visit.
- csours 3y agoSomeone pointed out that lack of growth is treated as decline in our culture/economy. So the threat of climate change in Florida is that real estate prices will stop growing - that breaks a fundamental assumption - line goes up - and that drives a race to the exit. So far this has only happened in some localities, so we'll see. If my house is underwater fiscally, it may as well be underwater with the fishes.
- echelon 3y agoI'll gladly buy your Miami property for a discount. My thesis is it's not going anywhere in the next 100 years and that the prices will only continue to rise.
- mvid 3y agoIf you believe that, then you don't even need the discount.
- csours 3y agoI agree that the real bet is on the time frame.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoFlorida real estate prices is incredibly volatile. They are in an upswing now (along with everyone else), but crash just as quickly. Land speculation is a risky business, but there is money to be made in Florida vs. more stable markets. > My thesis is it's not going anywhere in the next 100 years and that the prices will only continue to rise. I don't think you've looked at a graph for the last 50 years. In the end, they will probably rise if just because of inflation. The question is will it outpace inflation or crash. Frankly, the job market in FL isn't great for techies (although I interned for IBM at Boca Raton in 1995), so I haven't really looked into it.
- faefox 3y agoBoth a sensible business move and the right thing to do. If they could magically roll up the entirety of WDW and relocate it elsewhere I suspect they would.
- yeahwhatever10 3y agoWhere are they going to go, California? Unless they get huge tax breaks and some open land to expand on I doubt it.
- chomp 3y agoThey're not going anywhere because as GP pointed out, they can't actually magically roll up WDW.
- cauthon 3y agoThen what are they even paying the fairy godmother for?
- smt88 3y agoGeorgia has a similar climate and is significantly more politically moderate.
- mym1990 3y agoFWIW California already has Disneyland.
- supportengineer 3y agoThey got very close to building a new park in Virginia about 20 years ago
- KerrAvon 3y agoThey did it in Florida in the 1960’s and Disneyland Paris in the 1990’s, and they could easily do it again if they were again motivated to spend the enormous amount of money it would take.
- RC_ITR 3y agoSay what you will (should this even be on HN?), but Disney is giving is a masterclass in professional revenge. The massive plan to expand the Anaheim park drops on the same day. https://www.foxla.com/news/disneyland-forward-disney-anaheim-expansion-plans-revealed https://www.foxla.com/news/disneyland-forward-disney-anaheim...
- yeahwhatever10 3y ago"Possible". Culture wars are always fascinating in the tradeoffs people are willing to make in their rational. Californians will scream "More Housing! Get rid of Golf Courses and build houses!" But a massive theme park expansion in the middle of a developed area? All good if it hurts someone you hate.
- mcphage 3y ago> Californians will scream "More Housing! Get rid of Golf Courses and build houses!" But a massive theme park expansion in the middle of a developed area? All good if it hurts someone you hate. Weird that people like theme parks, yeah.
- yeahwhatever10 3y agoAnd people don't like golf courses?
- mvid 3y agoThe density of people that can enjoy a golf course vs an equivalently sized theme park is what? 100x?
- faefox 3y agoDisney's a big corporation but they don't have the power of eminent domain. If (if!) they ever attempt to grow the Anaheim property beyond their current holdings they will pay an absolute king's ransom for each and every square foot. Besides, reading the actual plans it's pretty clear that Disneyland Forward is more about repurposing and optimizing their current space rather than a "massive expansion" as you call it. Really feels like you're just making up a situation in order to "both sides" the issue.
- zuzu89 3y ago[flagged]
- howinteresting 3y agoSome parents' rights, huh? https://newrepublic.com/post/172748/ron-desantis-signs-law-allowing-trans-kids-taken-families https://newrepublic.com/post/172748/ron-desantis-signs-law-a...
- zuzu89 3y ago[flagged]
- hersko 3y agoTo the people I see commenting that the state of Florida will be a loser in the long run, between April 2020 and July 2022, Florida's population grew by 3.3% [1]. Compare that to states such as California (-1.3% [2]) and New York (-2.6% [3]) for the same period. Seems like more people like what DeSantis and Florida have been doing overall. [1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/FL/PST045222 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/FL/PST045222 [2] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/PST045222 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/PST045222 [3] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/NY/PST045222 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/NY/PST045222
- Clubber 3y ago>in the long run >between April 2020 and July 2022 It takes a long time to destroy a city or a state. It won't necessarily be the entirety of Florida but Orlando's economy is pretty Disney centric and might take a pretty big hit if Disney divests over the next 20 years. Will it be Detroit levels? Who knows. Also, there are term limits, so DeStantis is out in 2026 either way. Disney just has to wait it out a couple more years.
- some-guy 3y agoNot denying your sources' facts, but I would be careful to extrapolate any long term (decades-plus) over population shifts during the pandemic.
- danielrpa 3y agoFor those who think that Disney is cancelling this because of the fights with DeSantis... LOL. A corporation knows a lot better than that. Decisions are driven by profits, and profits alone, and neither Disney nor DeSantis would keep going too long in this game of chicken. Disney needs Florida and Florida badly wants Disney. Florida is still a huge supporter of Disney's business despite the politics. Disney is simply following what every other major company is doing right now: cutting back expansion plans, reducing major expenses (such as building a campus and moving thousands of people there) as their stock is really nothing to write home about right now. AND using this as a convenient excuse for what they are doing due to economic, not political reasons. If Disney could recoup the relocation investment in the next quarter, it would absolutely do it irrespective of the recent fighting.
- TradingPlaces 3y agoI think this was more about keeping the Imagineers in Glendale, California, where they all wanted to stay. This move was a key source of internal dissatisfaction with Chapek. Background: https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/49663329-trading-places-research/5807041-disney-bob-iger-and-future-king https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/49663329-trading-places-r...