7 ms·

Theaters are in a bad spot and I think they are doomed as an industry unless as boutique specialty theaters like LA’s New Beverly [0] as I don’t think the exper

Theaters are in a bad spot and I think they are doomed as an industry unless as boutique specialty theaters like LA’s New Beverly [0] as I don’t think the experience is worth the cost. My favorite local theater was $6 for a Sunday morning showing ($11 for regular). It was probably 50 years old and I think everything in it was maybe as recent as the 80s or 90s. The staff were super friendly and seemed to love movies. While only 3-6 for a 10 theater cinema they would bake their own cookies and brownies and dress up in homemade costumes. A mix of teenagers and 50+ people. They recently “upgraded” and now tickets are $10.50 ($21 for a regular ticket). The upgrade means the theaters now have fake leather power recliners that are actually less comfortable. I go see fewer movies now. And I can’t help but wonder “what bank loaned them this money, they’re never getting it back.” I don’t think movie tickets for $20 can compete with concerts ($20-infinity), major league sports ($15-200), plays, and other activities. To take my family to the movies is now $200 after tickets and popcorn and I can go to a major league soccer game for the same amount that includes parking, tickets, hot dogs, and beer. As long as I don’t want to see a specific game. I used to see 3-5 movies a month, now I see 3-5 per year. I’m happy having a similar experience at home via streaming (worse picture, no community, but much more convenient). I feel for the theater owners and employees as I’m sure it’s expensive. But it’s expensive to run a blacksmith and it’s expensive to telephone switchboard. It’s not that those things don’t produce value, they do. It’s that their value comes nowhere near their cost when compared to substitutes. [0] https://thenewbev.com/ https://thenewbev.com/

bko 3y ago
I think you're a little off on the alternative ticket pricing. I just checked New York red bulls and two tickets all in start at $74. Not including parking and getting there. Similarly when I looked at concert tickets they are never $15. Movies are also located in metro areas so easier to get to, are more flexible with times and showing and overall a more comfortable experience especially with a family. I think $20 per person for an afternoon is still competitive as a leisure activity. https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/00005E389E6B454C?brand=nyredbulls&wt.mc_id=MLS_TEAM_NYRB_SINGLE_GAME_TICKETS_PAGE_GAME6&CAMEFROM=CFC_NYREDBULLS_WEB_SINGLES_23GM06&_ga=2.249593605.283251250.1683720955-2126193457.1683720955#offer-card https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/00005E389E6B454C?brand=ny...
- cjrp 3y ago
  But maybe theatres are actually competing with Disney+/Netflix at what.. $11-15/month?
  - local_crmdgeon 3y ago
    I see this take a lot and disagree. I don't go to a theater in lieu of Netflix, I go on dates, with friends etc. It's more competitive with bars.
    - cjrp 3y ago
      I thought I saw somewhere that bars were having a similar problem, with Gen Z choosing to drink/socialise at home rather than go to bars, restaurants, etc.
      - bacchusracine 3y ago
        >with Gen Z choosing to drink/socialise at home Not just Gen Z. Why should I go to a bar and pay almost double a bottle what it costs me for a decent beer when I and a friend can pick up a twelve pack for what it would cost us to have two beers apiece elsewhere? Why should I pay outrageous prices for a steak when between the two of us we can smoke a brisket and have enough to share with others or leftovers for another meal? And doing so I know I can get excellent service from someone happy to be there? People forget that these are hospitality industries. They're all about service. You should be able to go there and feel happy you came. Instead most of these places make you feel like a bother and then despite a decent tip on the table you still get hit up for more money at the register. I try to be polite, friendly and tip well. I expect decent service when I go out and increasingly do not get it. So why should I go out when for a bit more effort I and my friends can do it ourselves and share for either less or the same cost, but a better experience?
        conductr 3y ago
        Inflation which is a new concept for myself in my mid-40s is playing a large part. We're not fully mentally adjusted to inflation and "value" these services less. Or perhaps we still mentally "value" them in 2019 dollars. Meanwhile, service workers have to live in the present and care about 2023 dollars. I know I still get a little sticker shock just seeing menu prices now, I can't say honestly that I'm tipping the same because of it. It's what I have control over. Or, I can just avoid the place altogether which is what many people choose to do. I haven't fully done that yet, I've scaled back a little but mostly just natural consequence of having young children (we eat in more now). Obviously, it doesn't help that tipping culture is absolute hell these days. I feel like I'm being gouged everywhere I go. For every single interaction. And, it's done in a way that's before the service where I feel like it's mandatory or my service will suffer if I don't go along with it. It's awful and I'm choosing more an more to boycott the tip line almost everywhere (seated meal being an exception).
JKCalhoun 3y ago
Theaters as we knew them do appear to be dead. I don't think I've gone to see a movie since Covid and when I drive past theaters I don't see a lot of cars in the parking lots. I don't think there's been anything showing though that I've wanted to see in a long time. Hollywood gets the blame for that. Cost to see a movie is also a big issue. It feels like the small theaters though are making a come back. I see plenty of "art house" theaters in Kansas City ... even a drive-in or two are appearing. These surely don't require the high-end playback equipment and tend to, IMHO, show better and more varied content.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  My kid said he wanted to see the Mario Bros movie the day before it stopped playing here. We were the only ones in the theater! How do they stay in business??? I will say that it was nice that they brought the food to our seats so we didn't have to wait around.
  - slavik81 3y ago
    The Mario Bros movie is nominally the 24th highest grossing film of all time. Your experience may not have been representative.
    - toast0 3y ago
      It's also been out for a month, and they went to it on the last day it was playing (at their particular theater), which is usually going to be a wednesday or thursday. Cinema attendance is pretty low mid week. At my local cinema, I have a 75% chance of a private showing if I go to a wednesday showing in the first week; but a larger nearby chain has more screens and larger attendence. I try to go to the local one if I go, because I would like it to stay in business, but they don't carry all the movies. And I just put in a home theater, so it's nice to use that when I can.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
        Oh, I fully expected attendance to be low at 4:30PM on a Wednesday. What I didn't expect was to be the only two people watching it.
beezlebroxxxxxx 3y ago
> I don’t think movie tickets for $20 can compete with concerts ($20-infinity), major league sports ($15-200), plays, and other activities. Compared to those other things, sure. But if you consider that a lot of people go out to eat once a week and regularly spend far more than $20, then that $20 price tag is not so crazy. Part of the problem has been that a lot of movies released lately barely feel worth paying that much to see. The movies are just mediocre. When I see a good movie, though, I don't even think about how much it cost me to see it. (Also, seeing a major league sports game for $15 is incredible. In my market, even at $20 movies are usually way cheaper than tickets to a sports game.)
- prepend 3y ago
  > But if you consider that a lot of people go out to eat once a week and regularly spend far more than $20, then that $20 price tag is not so crazy. It’s not that $20 is a crazy amount of money. It’s that it is crazy for what you get. I think restaurants would be in a tough spot too if you could get unlimited McDonalds spit out from a box in your kitchen for $18/month. People would still eat out, but much less given the substitutes. My MLB team regularly does $15 nosebleed tickets. My MLS team does $25 nosebleed tickets a few times a seasons and the food is much cheaper. But it’s also super easy to pay $100/ticket. With movies, everyone pays the same price. I don’t think movies are worse as I went to the movies pretty consistently over the past 30 years and there were ups and downs. The price of movie tickets has kept up with inflation for the most part, just doubling in the past 25 years [0] so I think it’s just that the price of digital goods has dropped so much (mp3 in 2000 was $1, still $1 today) because the price of bits gets cheaper. And this is bad for physical goods with clear substitutes. Interestingly, movie theaters should have benefits from digitalization as digital projectors are much cheaper as film costs a lot to produce and distribute and projectionists used to be the highest paid employee. [0] https://247wallst.com/media/2021/03/29/this-is-the-price-of-a-movie-ticket-in-the-past-25-years/ https://247wallst.com/media/2021/03/29/this-is-the-price-of-...
  - bandrami 3y ago
    > With movies, everyone pays the same price. It doesn't have to be that way; in a lot of Asia your ticket is for a specific seat and is priced based on that (both the view and the amenities e.g. the more expensive ones have a full table and table service for the food).
ip26 3y ago
$200 to go to the theater when tickets are $10? Just how many people are in your family?
- chii 3y ago
  the popcorn is probably 50% of it, for a family of 10.
- pc86 3y ago
  Not the GP but tickets are $10 for matinees. They can easily be $18-22 for primetime shows. So if you're a family of 4 you're paying $80-90 for the tickets, everyone gets drinks, popcorn, maybe a snack or two. It's easy to see it push $45-50 per person pretty quickly with kids.
  - Fargren 3y ago
    I know there are lots of people who do it, but I can't wrap my head about why any normal person pays for drinks and food at the cinema. It might not be the biggest ripoff I can think of, but it's probably the most blatant one. The markups are huge, for items everyone knows the cost of.
    - jsbg 3y ago
      > I know there are lots of people who do it, but I can't wrap my head about why any normal person pays for drinks and food at the cinema. What's the alternative?
      - Fargren 3y ago
        Watch a movie without food or drinks is what I did most of my life. Same with almost everyone I know, I don't feel like this is a weird choice to make. Where I live now it's illegal for cinemas to stop you from bringing food in, so I occasionally might bring my own snack, but that might be like one out ten times. Mostly just watch the movie and eat before or after. (Spain if you want to know)
Zababa 3y ago
> I don’t think movie tickets for $20 can compete with concerts ($20-infinity), major league sports ($15-200), plays, and other activities. They don't always have to compete. I rarely go see concerts, and I never go see sports, plays, or anything else really. But I go see movies from time to time. In that case there is no competition, at least not in similar activities.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I agree. I love live theater the most, and see it frequently. I don't see movies that often. But if all live theater ceased to exist, I doubt that I'd see movies more often. The two things are very, very different and can't substitute for each other.
jollyllama 3y ago
I like hearing about your pre-"upgrade" local theater. We had one like that around here even eight years ago that did second-run screenings in addition to loads of foreign films or rescreenings of films from decades ago. Great experience, super cheap. Unfortunately there was basically a hostile takeover of it by a guy who bought into the big seat vision.
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  A common alternative to the "upgraded" is the sad "closed". My city lost its well-loved second run theater of several decades somewhat recently. At least in our case we're somewhat lucky that the owners of that continue to invest in our only non-chain first run theater, and while it has some of the "big seat" upgrades it still tries to do some of the foreign films and indies and big "midnight" rescreenings of classics. (And is still cheaper than the big box, big chain options.)
bachmeier 3y ago
These days TVs with large screens are everywhere. When 32" was considered a big TV, theaters delivered a different experience. I've stopped going to theaters because the cost/benefit analysis doesn't work out. I've got a long list of entertainment subscriptions that need to be paid each month, and honestly because today's movies aren't even worth a $5 ticket price. It feels as though they're too focused on technology and not enough on having a good story.
- ccozan 3y ago
  My own experience as well. After buying a 65" OLED LG , adding a good 5.1 System, and having Netflix, Disney+, Prime streaming in 4K , Dolby Vision, etc , I honestly do not need a cinema. I would gladly wait for the streaming variant to appear. COVID certainly accelerated this transition.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  Indeed, but for certain movies, at a good cinema, it's still worth it IMO. Top Gun: Maverick is a movie I've seen at home and in the theatre. The theatre experience was superior I felt. That movie is probably suited to the experience but I really enjoyed the open atmosphere and distance from the huge screen and the room that audio had to work with. But yeah, for most things a sweet system (which is very attainable for most people today) is often fine.
conductr 3y ago
> I used to see 3-5 movies a month, now I see 3-5 per year Same. Except it has nothing to do with theaters and everything to do with Hollywood and what's being released. The question becomes if Hollywood went back to the "old model", the model that saw less franchises and more comedy/drama/etc releases. Would it put butts in seats at the theater? Or has the latest generation/tv-tech obsoleted or diluted the experience thus shrinking the market going forward? (eg. like ecommerce did to shopping malls) Hard to know, but I do miss good unique movies.
- ihateyouall123 3y ago
  Completely wrong.
  - quibono 3y ago
    Which part of the comment is completely wrong? Unless you mean all of the points raised.
tomjen3 3y ago
I can't justify paying more than a month of streaming for a specific movie that I have to share with people and where I can't put in a pee break. Cinema just do not make sense unless you are a total fan of a given franchise. I wanted to see the new Top Gun, but I just waited until I could buy it digitally. I can't wait until it becomes illegal to prioritize theaters - even if I have to pay the same for the ticket, the popcorn is a lot cheaper. That might make me watch more movies, but then again who knows.
MagicMoonlight 3y ago
With concerts and live events, having people there is part of the experience. And it’s happening live. With movies you’re just watching TV in the dark. Except the room is full of chavs and you have to pay £20 to watch an hour of unskippable ads.

bko 3y ago

I think you're a little off on the alternative ticket pricing. I just checked New York red bulls and two tickets all in start at $74. Not including parking and getting there. Similarly when I looked at concert tickets they are never $15. Movies are also located in metro areas so easier to get to, are more flexible with times and showing and overall a more comfortable experience especially with a family. I think $20 per person for an afternoon is still competitive as a leisure activity. https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/00005E389E6B454C?brand=nyredbulls&wt.mc_id=MLS_TEAM_NYRB_SINGLE_GAME_TICKETS_PAGE_GAME6&CAMEFROM=CFC_NYREDBULLS_WEB_SINGLES_23GM06&_ga=2.249593605.283251250.1683720955-2126193457.1683720955#offer-card https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/00005E389E6B454C?brand=ny...

cjrp 3y ago
But maybe theatres are actually competing with Disney+/Netflix at what.. $11-15/month?
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  I see this take a lot and disagree. I don't go to a theater in lieu of Netflix, I go on dates, with friends etc. It's more competitive with bars.
  - cjrp 3y ago
    I thought I saw somewhere that bars were having a similar problem, with Gen Z choosing to drink/socialise at home rather than go to bars, restaurants, etc.
    - bacchusracine 3y ago
      >with Gen Z choosing to drink/socialise at home Not just Gen Z. Why should I go to a bar and pay almost double a bottle what it costs me for a decent beer when I and a friend can pick up a twelve pack for what it would cost us to have two beers apiece elsewhere? Why should I pay outrageous prices for a steak when between the two of us we can smoke a brisket and have enough to share with others or leftovers for another meal? And doing so I know I can get excellent service from someone happy to be there? People forget that these are hospitality industries. They're all about service. You should be able to go there and feel happy you came. Instead most of these places make you feel like a bother and then despite a decent tip on the table you still get hit up for more money at the register. I try to be polite, friendly and tip well. I expect decent service when I go out and increasingly do not get it. So why should I go out when for a bit more effort I and my friends can do it ourselves and share for either less or the same cost, but a better experience?
      - conductr 3y ago
        Inflation which is a new concept for myself in my mid-40s is playing a large part. We're not fully mentally adjusted to inflation and "value" these services less. Or perhaps we still mentally "value" them in 2019 dollars. Meanwhile, service workers have to live in the present and care about 2023 dollars. I know I still get a little sticker shock just seeing menu prices now, I can't say honestly that I'm tipping the same because of it. It's what I have control over. Or, I can just avoid the place altogether which is what many people choose to do. I haven't fully done that yet, I've scaled back a little but mostly just natural consequence of having young children (we eat in more now). Obviously, it doesn't help that tipping culture is absolute hell these days. I feel like I'm being gouged everywhere I go. For every single interaction. And, it's done in a way that's before the service where I feel like it's mandatory or my service will suffer if I don't go along with it. It's awful and I'm choosing more an more to boycott the tip line almost everywhere (seated meal being an exception).

JKCalhoun 3y ago

Theaters as we knew them do appear to be dead. I don't think I've gone to see a movie since Covid and when I drive past theaters I don't see a lot of cars in the parking lots. I don't think there's been anything showing though that I've wanted to see in a long time. Hollywood gets the blame for that. Cost to see a movie is also a big issue. It feels like the small theaters though are making a come back. I see plenty of "art house" theaters in Kansas City ... even a drive-in or two are appearing. These surely don't require the high-end playback equipment and tend to, IMHO, show better and more varied content.

HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
My kid said he wanted to see the Mario Bros movie the day before it stopped playing here. We were the only ones in the theater! How do they stay in business??? I will say that it was nice that they brought the food to our seats so we didn't have to wait around.
- slavik81 3y ago
  The Mario Bros movie is nominally the 24th highest grossing film of all time. Your experience may not have been representative.
  - toast0 3y ago
    It's also been out for a month, and they went to it on the last day it was playing (at their particular theater), which is usually going to be a wednesday or thursday. Cinema attendance is pretty low mid week. At my local cinema, I have a 75% chance of a private showing if I go to a wednesday showing in the first week; but a larger nearby chain has more screens and larger attendence. I try to go to the local one if I go, because I would like it to stay in business, but they don't carry all the movies. And I just put in a home theater, so it's nice to use that when I can.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
      Oh, I fully expected attendance to be low at 4:30PM on a Wednesday. What I didn't expect was to be the only two people watching it.

beezlebroxxxxxx 3y ago

> I don’t think movie tickets for $20 can compete with concerts ($20-infinity), major league sports ($15-200), plays, and other activities. Compared to those other things, sure. But if you consider that a lot of people go out to eat once a week and regularly spend far more than $20, then that $20 price tag is not so crazy. Part of the problem has been that a lot of movies released lately barely feel worth paying that much to see. The movies are just mediocre. When I see a good movie, though, I don't even think about how much it cost me to see it. (Also, seeing a major league sports game for $15 is incredible. In my market, even at $20 movies are usually way cheaper than tickets to a sports game.)

prepend 3y ago
> But if you consider that a lot of people go out to eat once a week and regularly spend far more than $20, then that $20 price tag is not so crazy. It’s not that $20 is a crazy amount of money. It’s that it is crazy for what you get. I think restaurants would be in a tough spot too if you could get unlimited McDonalds spit out from a box in your kitchen for $18/month. People would still eat out, but much less given the substitutes. My MLB team regularly does $15 nosebleed tickets. My MLS team does $25 nosebleed tickets a few times a seasons and the food is much cheaper. But it’s also super easy to pay $100/ticket. With movies, everyone pays the same price. I don’t think movies are worse as I went to the movies pretty consistently over the past 30 years and there were ups and downs. The price of movie tickets has kept up with inflation for the most part, just doubling in the past 25 years [0] so I think it’s just that the price of digital goods has dropped so much (mp3 in 2000 was $1, still $1 today) because the price of bits gets cheaper. And this is bad for physical goods with clear substitutes. Interestingly, movie theaters should have benefits from digitalization as digital projectors are much cheaper as film costs a lot to produce and distribute and projectionists used to be the highest paid employee. [0] https://247wallst.com/media/2021/03/29/this-is-the-price-of-a-movie-ticket-in-the-past-25-years/ https://247wallst.com/media/2021/03/29/this-is-the-price-of-...
- bandrami 3y ago
  > With movies, everyone pays the same price. It doesn't have to be that way; in a lot of Asia your ticket is for a specific seat and is priced based on that (both the view and the amenities e.g. the more expensive ones have a full table and table service for the food).

ip26 3y ago

$200 to go to the theater when tickets are $10? Just how many people are in your family?

chii 3y ago
the popcorn is probably 50% of it, for a family of 10.
pc86 3y ago
Not the GP but tickets are $10 for matinees. They can easily be $18-22 for primetime shows. So if you're a family of 4 you're paying $80-90 for the tickets, everyone gets drinks, popcorn, maybe a snack or two. It's easy to see it push $45-50 per person pretty quickly with kids.
- Fargren 3y ago
  I know there are lots of people who do it, but I can't wrap my head about why any normal person pays for drinks and food at the cinema. It might not be the biggest ripoff I can think of, but it's probably the most blatant one. The markups are huge, for items everyone knows the cost of.
  - jsbg 3y ago
    > I know there are lots of people who do it, but I can't wrap my head about why any normal person pays for drinks and food at the cinema. What's the alternative?
    - Fargren 3y ago
      Watch a movie without food or drinks is what I did most of my life. Same with almost everyone I know, I don't feel like this is a weird choice to make. Where I live now it's illegal for cinemas to stop you from bringing food in, so I occasionally might bring my own snack, but that might be like one out ten times. Mostly just watch the movie and eat before or after. (Spain if you want to know)

Zababa 3y ago

> I don’t think movie tickets for $20 can compete with concerts ($20-infinity), major league sports ($15-200), plays, and other activities. They don't always have to compete. I rarely go see concerts, and I never go see sports, plays, or anything else really. But I go see movies from time to time. In that case there is no competition, at least not in similar activities.

JohnFen 3y ago
I agree. I love live theater the most, and see it frequently. I don't see movies that often. But if all live theater ceased to exist, I doubt that I'd see movies more often. The two things are very, very different and can't substitute for each other.

jollyllama 3y ago

I like hearing about your pre-"upgrade" local theater. We had one like that around here even eight years ago that did second-run screenings in addition to loads of foreign films or rescreenings of films from decades ago. Great experience, super cheap. Unfortunately there was basically a hostile takeover of it by a guy who bought into the big seat vision.

WorldMaker 3y ago
A common alternative to the "upgraded" is the sad "closed". My city lost its well-loved second run theater of several decades somewhat recently. At least in our case we're somewhat lucky that the owners of that continue to invest in our only non-chain first run theater, and while it has some of the "big seat" upgrades it still tries to do some of the foreign films and indies and big "midnight" rescreenings of classics. (And is still cheaper than the big box, big chain options.)

bachmeier 3y ago

These days TVs with large screens are everywhere. When 32" was considered a big TV, theaters delivered a different experience. I've stopped going to theaters because the cost/benefit analysis doesn't work out. I've got a long list of entertainment subscriptions that need to be paid each month, and honestly because today's movies aren't even worth a $5 ticket price. It feels as though they're too focused on technology and not enough on having a good story.

ccozan 3y ago
My own experience as well. After buying a 65" OLED LG , adding a good 5.1 System, and having Netflix, Disney+, Prime streaming in 4K , Dolby Vision, etc , I honestly do not need a cinema. I would gladly wait for the streaming variant to appear. COVID certainly accelerated this transition.
nemo44x 3y ago
Indeed, but for certain movies, at a good cinema, it's still worth it IMO. Top Gun: Maverick is a movie I've seen at home and in the theatre. The theatre experience was superior I felt. That movie is probably suited to the experience but I really enjoyed the open atmosphere and distance from the huge screen and the room that audio had to work with. But yeah, for most things a sweet system (which is very attainable for most people today) is often fine.

conductr 3y ago

> I used to see 3-5 movies a month, now I see 3-5 per year Same. Except it has nothing to do with theaters and everything to do with Hollywood and what's being released. The question becomes if Hollywood went back to the "old model", the model that saw less franchises and more comedy/drama/etc releases. Would it put butts in seats at the theater? Or has the latest generation/tv-tech obsoleted or diluted the experience thus shrinking the market going forward? (eg. like ecommerce did to shopping malls) Hard to know, but I do miss good unique movies.

ihateyouall123 3y ago
Completely wrong.
- quibono 3y ago
  Which part of the comment is completely wrong? Unless you mean all of the points raised.

tomjen3 3y ago

I can't justify paying more than a month of streaming for a specific movie that I have to share with people and where I can't put in a pee break. Cinema just do not make sense unless you are a total fan of a given franchise. I wanted to see the new Top Gun, but I just waited until I could buy it digitally. I can't wait until it becomes illegal to prioritize theaters - even if I have to pay the same for the ticket, the popcorn is a lot cheaper. That might make me watch more movies, but then again who knows.

MagicMoonlight 3y ago

With concerts and live events, having people there is part of the experience. And it’s happening live. With movies you’re just watching TV in the dark. Except the room is full of chavs and you have to pay £20 to watch an hour of unskippable ads.