4 ms·

The regulations get updated, you aren't stuck on usb-c. What EU wants to avoid is Apple giving "unfair" advantages to their own chargers (which could either co

The regulations get updated, you aren't stuck on usb-c. What EU wants to avoid is Apple giving "unfair" advantages to their own chargers (which could either come from Apple making better chargers or artificially slowing third party ones) defeating the purpose of having less electronic waste.

ewalk153 4y ago
Like you point out, the “unfair[ness]” of making better chargers faster than the EU standard can keep pace threatens to revert to least common denominator experience in the name of less waste.
- irdc 4y ago
  Not really: following public standards will never be seen as unfair. So a manufacturer merely implementing USB-PD 5.0, which allows for 2 megawatt via water-cooled copper, to fast-charge their devices is in the clear.
frankfrankfrank 4y ago
I’m all for some kind of universality, but this authoritarian method does not strike me as a good idea. You lament their concern with fairness, by giving unfair advantages to the USB-C license holders/patent holders? I’m not even sure people understand that Apple also contributed heavily to the development of USB-C along with other companies, some of them European. The irony is that I believe the Lightning Connector, the iPhone connector, has been the longest standing standard connector (11 years now) and the introduction of the Qi “wireless charging” is also a good argument against this narrow sighted EU authoritarian/communist mentality that some apparatchiks can make better decisions than those who actually do and create things. Has someone actually asked Apple to lay out its reasons for not adopting the larger and bulkier USB-C? Could it be that it has something to do with trying to engage in economic warfare against Apple because it’s harder to compete?
- vidarh 4y ago
  The EU tried the soft approach for many years, and Apple stubbornly refused to play. "This authoritarian method" of representing the populations they are meant to represent as part of a democratic society rather than letting companies continue to do what they want came with ample warning. EDIT: Someone asked about the mandate for it, and deleted, but worth pointing out that the EU parliament supported this with a majority of 602 to 13, so it has support literally from the far left to the far right.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - frankfrankfrank 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - tankenmate 4y ago
      Apple refused to implement mirco-USB when the EU issued guidelines to use USB because of electronic waste. Apple refused to even talk to the EU about it. So with Apple refusing to engage with the elected representatives of the EU then the EU got to the point of having to force Apple to engage; legislation. TLDR: The EU wanted less e-waste. Apple refused to engage, so the EU forced them to engage or leave.
      - frankfrankfrank 4y ago
        The problem is that the EU is illegitimate and a circus clown shoe of pencil necked bureaucratic authoritarians. I’m not even a fan of Apple look e for different reasons, but the very same reason Apple is likely not even engaging the EU clowns and their attempt at making Apple products worse with Micro USB (what a horrible design and technology because of it), it’s also the very same reason that the EU cannot ban Apple, because Apple is to god and the market leader in design and creating good products that people actually want. I can assure you that Apple’s lightning connector has caused there to be less waste than any other manufacturer. Case in point too; I just bought a temporary Nokia phone. And here it is, 2023, and they’re still using that horrible MicroUSB design plug that you have to look at every single time to make sure you get the plug in correctly. OUSD also discriminatory against the blind who have to feel they plug itself to figure out which way is up, whereas I can plug the lightning connector into any of the Apple devices in pitch black darkness because they go in the same every time.
rocketbop 4y ago
> The regulations get updated, you aren't stuck on usb-c. Isn't there a chicken and egg problem there - no one will release products with new power interfaces, because they aren't releasable in Europe. I suppose such products might get released first in the US, but which large tech company if going to ignore the EU market when releasing important products?
- Deukhoofd 4y ago
  They can propose it to the USB Implementers Forum, standardize it as a new USB standard, and pass it to the EU.
  - hartator 4y ago
    So, the EU is now in charge of deciding USB implementation?
    - Deukhoofd 4y ago
      No, the EU follows the industry standards. The industry standards for connectors are currently decided on by USB-IF, as almost the entire industry is a member of it. This means that when USB-IF releases a new standard, the EU will add it to the legislation.
- epolanski 4y ago
  > Isn't there a chicken and egg problem there - no one will release products with new power interfaces Yes, that's the point. Instead of anyone releasing products with new power interfaces the goal is to have industry-wide discussion on adopting new standards for everyone. I think it's reasonable and only a positive thing. If the industry will decide that USB-C isn't enough they will revise the standard.
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    > the goal is to have industry-wide discussion on adopting new standards for everyone. That’s not part of the regulation whatsoever > If the industry will decide that USB-C isn't enough they will revise the standard. But the industry doesn’t come together and pick a standard. The EU did. The closest industries came to picking a standard were freely choosing from many different formats that emerged. Imagine what it would take for the executives at Apple, Samsung, Motorola, etc. to come together and all agree on some new format that perhaps one of them developed. Now consider that the EU would still have to approve it. The conclusion made from that Herculean effort might just be null and void. Also consider that this sounds a lot like is collusion. These companies would never get as far as sitting down with each other and are even less likely with this EU regulation. What’s worse is this all completely subjugates new players, who may be more likely to innovate and which can’t abuse any existing user base, to the current phone market. They would never have a seat at the table.
worrycue 4y ago
Who decides when we will update? If there are competing standards next round, who gets to decide which one? The very corruptible EU?

ewalk153 4y ago

Like you point out, the “unfair[ness]” of making better chargers faster than the EU standard can keep pace threatens to revert to least common denominator experience in the name of less waste.

irdc 4y ago
Not really: following public standards will never be seen as unfair. So a manufacturer merely implementing USB-PD 5.0, which allows for 2 megawatt via water-cooled copper, to fast-charge their devices is in the clear.

frankfrankfrank 4y ago

I’m all for some kind of universality, but this authoritarian method does not strike me as a good idea. You lament their concern with fairness, by giving unfair advantages to the USB-C license holders/patent holders? I’m not even sure people understand that Apple also contributed heavily to the development of USB-C along with other companies, some of them European. The irony is that I believe the Lightning Connector, the iPhone connector, has been the longest standing standard connector (11 years now) and the introduction of the Qi “wireless charging” is also a good argument against this narrow sighted EU authoritarian/communist mentality that some apparatchiks can make better decisions than those who actually do and create things. Has someone actually asked Apple to lay out its reasons for not adopting the larger and bulkier USB-C? Could it be that it has something to do with trying to engage in economic warfare against Apple because it’s harder to compete?

vidarh 4y ago
The EU tried the soft approach for many years, and Apple stubbornly refused to play. "This authoritarian method" of representing the populations they are meant to represent as part of a democratic society rather than letting companies continue to do what they want came with ample warning. EDIT: Someone asked about the mandate for it, and deleted, but worth pointing out that the EU parliament supported this with a majority of 602 to 13, so it has support literally from the far left to the far right.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- frankfrankfrank 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - tankenmate 4y ago
    Apple refused to implement mirco-USB when the EU issued guidelines to use USB because of electronic waste. Apple refused to even talk to the EU about it. So with Apple refusing to engage with the elected representatives of the EU then the EU got to the point of having to force Apple to engage; legislation. TLDR: The EU wanted less e-waste. Apple refused to engage, so the EU forced them to engage or leave.
    - frankfrankfrank 4y ago
      The problem is that the EU is illegitimate and a circus clown shoe of pencil necked bureaucratic authoritarians. I’m not even a fan of Apple look e for different reasons, but the very same reason Apple is likely not even engaging the EU clowns and their attempt at making Apple products worse with Micro USB (what a horrible design and technology because of it), it’s also the very same reason that the EU cannot ban Apple, because Apple is to god and the market leader in design and creating good products that people actually want. I can assure you that Apple’s lightning connector has caused there to be less waste than any other manufacturer. Case in point too; I just bought a temporary Nokia phone. And here it is, 2023, and they’re still using that horrible MicroUSB design plug that you have to look at every single time to make sure you get the plug in correctly. OUSD also discriminatory against the blind who have to feel they plug itself to figure out which way is up, whereas I can plug the lightning connector into any of the Apple devices in pitch black darkness because they go in the same every time.

rocketbop 4y ago

> The regulations get updated, you aren't stuck on usb-c. Isn't there a chicken and egg problem there - no one will release products with new power interfaces, because they aren't releasable in Europe. I suppose such products might get released first in the US, but which large tech company if going to ignore the EU market when releasing important products?

Deukhoofd 4y ago
They can propose it to the USB Implementers Forum, standardize it as a new USB standard, and pass it to the EU.
- hartator 4y ago
  So, the EU is now in charge of deciding USB implementation?
  - Deukhoofd 4y ago
    No, the EU follows the industry standards. The industry standards for connectors are currently decided on by USB-IF, as almost the entire industry is a member of it. This means that when USB-IF releases a new standard, the EU will add it to the legislation.
epolanski 4y ago
> Isn't there a chicken and egg problem there - no one will release products with new power interfaces Yes, that's the point. Instead of anyone releasing products with new power interfaces the goal is to have industry-wide discussion on adopting new standards for everyone. I think it's reasonable and only a positive thing. If the industry will decide that USB-C isn't enough they will revise the standard.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  > the goal is to have industry-wide discussion on adopting new standards for everyone. That’s not part of the regulation whatsoever > If the industry will decide that USB-C isn't enough they will revise the standard. But the industry doesn’t come together and pick a standard. The EU did. The closest industries came to picking a standard were freely choosing from many different formats that emerged. Imagine what it would take for the executives at Apple, Samsung, Motorola, etc. to come together and all agree on some new format that perhaps one of them developed. Now consider that the EU would still have to approve it. The conclusion made from that Herculean effort might just be null and void. Also consider that this sounds a lot like is collusion. These companies would never get as far as sitting down with each other and are even less likely with this EU regulation. What’s worse is this all completely subjugates new players, who may be more likely to innovate and which can’t abuse any existing user base, to the current phone market. They would never have a seat at the table.

worrycue 4y ago

Who decides when we will update? If there are competing standards next round, who gets to decide which one? The very corruptible EU?