15 ms·

Squad Solar City Car

140 points by hochmartinez 3y ago

robga 3y ago
Looks a lot like the citroen ami - electric but not solar. https://business.citroen.co.uk/ami https://business.citroen.co.uk/ami
- teekert 3y ago
  I was on Sicily last week and saw quite some of those. Doesn't even stand out that much as people there seem to prefer very small cars (just look at a city like Modica on Streetview and you get why).
  - cjrp 3y ago
    They can also be driven by 14+ year olds without a licence in some countries. Pretty cool way to get around.
- kamray23 3y ago
  Looks a lot like the L EU vehicle class which is more than common in the EU. Go by various names: voiturette, mopoauto, quardicycle, same thing. Big, big issues and very dangerous for a variety of reasons, those being easier or harder to fix. Firstly, we give them to 15 year olds (AM/121 license). This is an obvious safety issue but we also give them mopeds (AM/120), tractors (T/F/TM/Tкт/K/L & AM) and buggies (AM/121) whatever else. Ordinary driving licenses (B) in the EU are always 18 and up so this is our transitional mobility option. They're only meant to go 45 km/h but you know if you give someone a pimped up lawnmower with a plastic body they're going to do their everything to make that little engine work way harder than it should. You can, surprisingly, cram eight teenagers into one if you try – it has two seats. The age thing is relatively easy to fix. Secondly, inherently unsafe design. These look more safe than mopeds. In terms of stability, they're stable upright and mopeds aren't so that's a big plus. Other than that, they're effectively the same vehicle when you get into a crash, that is, you practically become an 80 km/h pedestrian. They give off an illusion of safety though, making their (often young) user base very likely to find themselves in roadside posts due to the high centre of mass and low contact area making these things very likely to tip over in curve at any speed above like 35 km/h. Mopeds can actually often corner faster because they're designed to tip, but they're less likely to be driven with as much impunity due to the complete absence of the illusion of safety given by being inside a vehicle. Thirdly, they are slow. At 45 km/h top speed they are pretty much only useful on local roads which limits where you can go to the exact same range as a bicycle. Being on an arterial for a long time is going to be a massive road safety risk simply because of everyone passing you and attempting to drive on a highway is in fact, entirely illegal. In everything, be it cargo capacity, seats, range or whatever they are equivalent to bicycles in everything but cost and lifetime emissions, especially if they're 2-stroke. Not only that but they don't benefit from the quicker and more free bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure which can cross however it wants and are confined to roads, leading to often much higher travel times despite twice the top and thrice the comfortable riding speed of a bicycle. In literally every way these are useless unless you live in a rural village an hour's walk away from the local town and are 15. Even then, a speed limited car would probably do better. This insight into European driver's license and road safety politics brought to you by a Finnish man who wishes to see not only less SUVs but also less of these things on the roads because they are equally dangerous, although in different ways.
  - cuu508 3y ago
    Regarding low speed, these are for driving in city, where you have 50km/h speed limit.
    - kamray23 3y ago
      Yes, and for that they would be useful. However, in such an environment, it will be exceedingly rare for you to need one of these, as you would have to contend with city-level traffic and have to go at least 1.5 km away to even choose one instead of a bicycle. They have effectively the same safety and cargo capacity as a proper cargo bike, as they are super tiny. For families carrying children, bakfiets would fill the same role within that small radius. Therefore this is for intra-city, entirely urban trips, specifically going to places where there are no tram or metro stations within a few hundred metres or when a very small amount of too-heavy-to-carry cargo has to be moved more than 1.5 km, which as we all know, is a definite daily occurrence. Weather is one thing it protects you from, but from what I see on the daily, that's not a big enough issue to wage war against city traffic for for most people. I don't find a good niche for these to succeed other than in very small towns with integrated suburbs but then again people would bike for bike trips and buy a car anyway because they want to get out of the small town at some point. It's a great idea but it either comes with most downsides of L-class vehicles or it loses its niche entirely.
      - robga 3y ago
        I saw some of these in “hill towns” in Italy. You have a 4sq mile town with cobblestones, steep inclines, and narrow “roads”. Perfect. Where I live it’s common for people for buy £4k electric cargo bikes to shuttle <10mi/day to shops and schools. I can see the appeal of one of these over such a bike especially when they were only £6k: more weatherproof, less likely to be stolen, arguably more versatile.
- sleepybrett 3y ago
  looks like a golf cart with doors
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    Add some mecanum wheels and a pallet fork in the front and it also doubles as a forklift in a pinch, how neat is that?
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
It's a golf cart; nothing revolutionary to see here.
- throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
  It's quite a bit more advanced than a golf cart. Unibody aluminum tub and roll cage, wheels for bumpers, built in solar charger, 4 lithium hotswap batteries, compact design.
  - mab122 3y ago
    so more like ATV but electric
  - jackhack 3y ago
    As much as I wanted to like it, I am still just seeing an $8000 upfitted golf cart. (spaceframe golf cart) I didn't dig too deeply, but there seems to be a lot of information missing that would be necessary for a purchase decision. My initial criticisms: Air Conditioning is an upcharge -- how much? (It is essential in many regions). And how much does its use affect range? Similarly, how much does the heat affect range? (probably resistance heat- the least efficient type?) What is range in winter, or summer? What about safety - crash tests and occupant injury - what is the result of a 20mph head-on collision? Side collision? Roll-over? Does the "savings" of a cheap car translate into life spent in a wheelchair as a result of a minor fender-bender? The 25/40mph top speed is severely limiting in terms of usefulness. Perhaps city-only use is the only domain? Each battery pack gives 25km range. 2 standard, 4 max. What is the cost of additional packs? What is charge time? How many cycles per pack? Seat belts? Passive restraints? Is there even a spare tire in case of a flat? Taxes and Insurance - what is the vehicle category and how does it compare? Again, I hate to be a dark cloud over this project, but to me a $5000 used gasoline auto seems to be much more practical everyday transportation.
    - bkettle 3y ago
      I think city-only use (in cities with slower speeds than American ones, too) is the intended domain indeed, especially given the “city car” name. In theory, in urban environments where pedestrians and bikers who have no protection at all are common, cars should certainly not be traveling fast enough to injure someone inside any kind of metal protective shell.
liamkinne 3y ago
Stop putting solar panels on cars. It’s just not worth the cost or complexity. That square meter of PV is going to get you at most 250W in perfect conditions. Conditions that aren’t found in cities or even at ground level in residential areas.
- throwbadubadu 3y ago
  Start putting solar everywhere possible. It depends on lot of factors, not every city is built the same, and even in non-perfect conditions power collected is just a monotically increasing function over time.. cost and complexity always go down with more mass adoption.
- thejohnconway 3y ago
  Their page addresses that point, it says the panel will charge for 20km of driving in a day, and the average micro car does 12 (not exactly sure what a micro car is though...). Not having to plug anything in is actually a pretty big deal in many European cites where people do not have garages, and on-street chargers are still sparse. I don't know if this will work, but things like this deserve some consideration.
  - blamazon 3y ago
    > not exactly sure what a micro car is though... A popular modern example is the Citroen Ami: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroën_Ami_(electric_vehicle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroën_Ami_(electric_vehicle) Vintage, the Isetta: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isetta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isetta
  - mysterydip 3y ago
    I would be concerned about finding a sunny enough spot in a city to charge. Even their promo video showed it sitting in the shadow of some building.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    There are two main classes of microcar in Europe. This particular one is classified under L6e in Europe, so has a maximum design speed of 45km/h. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classification) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classi...
mkoryak 3y ago
Now that I'll never get a Tesla, what is a good alternative in the US?
- komali2 3y ago
  Depends on the city. For most cities I've found a bicycle or ebike has the best door to door time (most navigation apps neglect to calculate time to find parking in their navigation estimates). If possible walking + public transit is usually pretty good.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  Take your pick, all major car manufacturers and some new ones are making EVs these days.
  - tantalor 3y ago
    But nobody is building NEV (neighborhood EV) like this.
    - ehnto 3y ago
      Not sure what grey import rules are like, but Japan has some sweet Kei Cars/Tiny Cars that are all electric. A bit bigger than this but much smaller than regular cars.
shiftoutbox 3y ago
[dead]
komali2 3y ago
https://www.squadmobility.com/cookie-policy https://www.squadmobility.com/cookie-policy > We do not currently support Do Not Track signals, as there is no industry standard for compliance. By waiting for the rest of the industry to simultaneously decide the right way to do the right thing, you too can do whatever you please!
- yellowapple 3y ago
  I further love how they demand an "industry standard for compliance" when complying with "please don't track me" is literally as simple as "okay then I won't track you". Such nonsense is why I don't trust anyone with "marketing" in one's title.
msandford 3y ago
Looks like it doesn't have any real climate control. Once you have a light, efficient vehicle like this the climate control loads start to become significant vs the actual transport. Might work great where it's super mild all the time like Europe or parts of California. Probably not awesome in the US South.
- throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
  Removing the doors makes it no worse than walking or biking?
  - jiminymcmoogley 3y ago
    probably much better actually, since you're not exerting yourself physically
    - laputan_machine 3y ago
      A lack of physical exertion is a large cause of obesity and depression. Human innovation tends towards us making our lives easier (so: less physical exercise). Quite the dilemma!
      - throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
        And some people are physically impaired and cannot walk or bike. The able world would love to forget about them or force them into 3 hour long bus routes, but besides that being incredibly unfair, it's just not necessary if there is alternative transportation.
        atonse 3y ago
        I’ve actually seen some really impressive scooters that take care of this actually. The issue I’ve seen (can only speak for a large city in the US) is still accessibility. Like entrances, finding elevators, ramps, etc. especially in older buildings. For the record I got to experience this first hand when I hung out with an old colleague who was injured in a car crash. And this was at the DC convention center, a relatively new building. Finding elevators and navigating around took way longer, especially when you were lost. But I will say that it was amazing how everyone around him was willing to help in any way they could.
passive 3y ago
Dang, I hope these make it to Canada. I had been considering picking up an older Leaf to supplement our SUV for short trips, but having something that would charge itself via solar would be nice step up from that.
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
Economic analysis of putting solar on golf buggy carts, which this is fairly similar to, suggests this is a good idea: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15567036.2020.1792589 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15567036.2020.1...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
PragmaticPulp 3y ago
Interesting concept. I’m interested to see how many people will find a use for microcars like this: > Max speed 45 km/h (L6) 70 km/h (L7) To put it in perspective, the L6 homologated version tops out at 28mph. That’s marginally faster than a golf cart. The whole concept feels a lot like a very, very well designed golf cart. The bigger L7 version can go a little over 40mph. Thinking of my normal shopping and daily routine, I could make that work. Would be interesting to have an option like this available. I don’t think I’d actually feel safe driving it mixed in with normal size cars at 40mph, though.
- tuyiown 3y ago
  I suspect 45kmph is enough for driving in dense part of many cities in the world. Very likely not true in the US, but my main concern would be the risk of being very easily crushed by heavier vehicles.
- elliottkember 3y ago
  > 28mph. That’s marginally faster than a golf cart Golf carts do not go 28 miles per hour.
incomingpain 3y ago
The price aside. I love the idea, been following betterbike and elf and a couple others. I drive once maybe twice a week. Solar powered makes sense for my use case. The thing ought to be fully powered all the time. What I'm hoping for is the VW ID buzz camper van hopefully has solar roof. That'll be amazing.
shrx 3y ago
I park my car inside a garage, no way to charge it. If everyone would have to park their cars outside this would take a lot of additional parking space.
- yellowapple 3y ago
  If this can plug in, then as long as your garage has an outlet you should be fine. If this can't plug in, then I question the sanity of the designer of this thing.
  - elliottkember 3y ago
    > Alternatively the batteries can be charged directly on a regular power plug or a charge point. The swappable batteries can also be charged externally of the car. This is FAQ #2
- timerol 3y ago
  The batteries are removable and can be carried inside and charged separately. They likely weigh around 30 lbs each (up to 4 can be installed), based on comparable batteries, but I see the weight is listed
Entinel 3y ago
I like the idea but in a world of Hummers and lifted trucks I wouldn't feel safe no matter how indestructible they claim the body is.
- jackhack 3y ago
  Not just modified vehicles or hummers, but a road filled with SUVs, minivans, delivery trucks, crossovers. Even a "standard" Ford F150 is goliath, and an indestructable frame won't save you. To the contrary, a super-rigid frame translates into occupant injury. Crumple zones, energy absorbing materials, deformation of structures = survivability. A 20 mph head-on collision in a 1950s auto with a full frame design is often far more serious than a 40 mph collision in a modern auto. Head-to-head comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U (likely death vs possible foot injury) Now contemplate a 6' long vehicle with 1' or less of "crumple zone".
  - teekert 3y ago
    Where I live people are on bikes, ebikes, escooters and cargo bikes all over the roads anyway so this fits right in. I drove through Texas in a small Kia once, indeed, I was always afraid someone would fail to notice me and drive over the car thinking "what was that?"
warrenmiller 3y ago
Built by the Dutch for Dutch cities - these sort of vehicles are all over Amsterdam, mostly by people who can't be bothered to cycle and 16 year olds :)
clnq 3y ago
I really like these small electric cars, and I plan to buy one even if only just for fun in the next ten years. They fill a niche between electric scooters/bikes and regular cars. In most cities, an electric scooter is usually enough for me. But they don't work well in rain, snow, or ice as they have no protection from the elements. A small car with a roof does. Also, if the car can pull 10+ km of range out of thin air through solar power every day, that's just a cherry on top. The only letdown I have with these cars is their appearance. Why do they often seem so rough around the edges? The Microlino 2.0 is the only EV micro car I've come across with a somewhat attractive design. In comparison, the TWIZY, AMI, and Squad models just seem plasticky, uncomfortable, and cheaply crafted. Even many electric golf carts boast a more polished look, not to mention a much better suspension. Is it that the target demographic demands cheapness? What about people who have the means for a premium car but like the practicality (the T-shirt and shorts in-the-office guys as opposed to suit and tie, so to speak)? I'd gladly pay a design premium, even if it's just to make these cars on par (pun intended) with golf carts in elegance, which is not a tall ask.
- ilyt 3y ago
  > But they don't work well in rain, snow, or ice as they have no protection from the elements. That's honestly lesser problem than the fact 2 wheeled vehicles on ice are fucking scary to drive
  - clnq 3y ago
    E-scooters are reasonably stable when there's a small amount of ice so long as you don't use solid tyres. They are more stable than road bikes and city bikes because they have a wider area of contact with the ground. For more comfort, you can under-inflate the pneumatic tyres or buy studded tyres. Also, you feel steadier on them than on a bike because you always have one foot as a third point of contact if you need it, and you feel somewhat more in control than with a car as the inertia is lower. The battery life and dirt/sleet are more frustrating. Don't knock it till you try it. Though be careful for the first time if you do try it, use common sense — drive slower and don't turn as sharply, dress appropriately as you'll be caked in mud. But otherwise it's doable and quite fun.
2-to-15 3y ago
I'm trying not to sound sarcastic, but doesn't an electric golf cart fill this need? These look like a fancy golf cart with a solar panel on the top. Is there a street legality issue with golf carts being on public urban streets? Edited: spelling
- Tade0 3y ago
  Highly depends on the region of the world. Street legal golf carts are generally a thing - at least in Europe.
  - GoToRO 3y ago
    Where can I buy one?
    - Tade0 3y ago
      In Europe I would normally recommend one brand local to my region: https://melex.com.pl/en/products/passenger-street-legal https://melex.com.pl/en/products/passenger-street-legal They have dealerships in most of the EU: https://melex.com.pl/en/distribution https://melex.com.pl/en/distribution But they are somewhat low-tech with their deep-cycle lead-acid batteries.
- elliottkember 3y ago
  Golf carts do not have adequate suspension for roads. They're designed for wide-open, mostly flat golf courses, covered in grass. They don't do well in a roll-over, either. The size is similar, but the construction is quite different.
sschueller 3y ago
Unfortunate name of "Solar City Car". I initially though this had something to do with solar city and Tesla. I guess they could rename it to Squad Solar Urban Car or something. This is similar to some other such vehicles[1] which can be driven by 16+ year olds with just a Mopet license. They however only go up to 45km/h which is fine in many cities which have a speed limit of 30 but just outside it becomes and issue if you can't go 50-60km/h. Cars that are a little bigger like the microlino[2] which can do 80km/h but require a regular license seem more usable. Although personally I think it is butt ugly and I don't get why these vehicles have to look different than regular vehicles. [1] https://www.eta.co.uk/2011/03/18/electric-car-you-dont-need-a-licence-for/ https://www.eta.co.uk/2011/03/18/electric-car-you-dont-need-... [2] https://www.newlyswissed.com/microlino-swiss-microcar/ https://www.newlyswissed.com/microlino-swiss-microcar/
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  One of the reasons for the looks of this car is that its wheels extend beyond the car, effectively acting as bumpers. In the Fully Charged preview[0] Jack demonstrates parking by running into the curb. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4
  - sschueller 3y ago
    I think the squad looks alright, the microlino look awkward.
- ilyt 3y ago
  I feel like they can't really exists in environment when they can be hit by cars weighting 3-4x as much
  - teekert 3y ago
    I'm often on a bike, where I can be hit by vehicles weighting 100x as much :)
    - 3y ago
bkettle 3y ago
The widespread use of huge, highway-built vehicles (that is, all American cars) for short trips in US cities has been sticking out to me recently as a major safety hazard and detractor from pleasant urban living. Highway-built cars are fundamentally incompatible with human-scale living: they are loud and accelerate quickly while being soundproof, isolating the occupants from the effects they have on their environment. Sleek, reflective windshields and tinted windows also make it difficult for pedestrians and bikers to make eye contact with car drivers, dehumanizing interactions with vehicles and increasing reliance on inflexible measures like traffic lights that would not be required on a more human scale. I would love to see small cars like these come into more widespread use in the the U.S., with carsharing programs providing cars as needed for highway driving. This change could come much more quickly than the large-scale urban design improvements we will eventually need to totally reduce reliance on cars in cities. As it is, many city streets are too fast for these cars to be comfortable. I would love to see a general slowing-down of vehicles in US cities and towns that makes city vehicles like these practical, and, on top of the obvious safety benefits for all the cities that claim to have “vision zero”, I don’t think it would come with many downsides. Even outside of a city center for in-town trips of a few miles, 28mph is really quite fast—a matter of a few extra minutes compared to current dangerous city speeds.
- ilyt 3y ago
  But slowing down means every vehicle is on road longer, so even more vehicles in peak traffic. I think problem is that many of high speed roads are also very "interfering"; highway circling a city is not really a problem and can be decently isolated, but high speed road full of streets flowing into it just makes for many more chances for accidents.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - jonas21 3y ago
    Slowing a road down doesn't decrease its throughput (at least not until you get to very low speeds). The minimum spacing required between cars is proportional to speed.
Tade0 3y ago
Just like things keep evolving into crabs, the final stage of vehicular evolution is the humble golf cart. I don't drive daily, but if I did, I would get this. It's 48% width and 40% the length of a parking spot according to current building standards around here, meaning I could squeeze four of these in there. I'm assuming that at 350kg I could just push this thing into place, thus avoiding the need to exit to the side once it's parked. And on top of that it even costs around 1/4 of what I would pay for a car. EDIT: here's a review and test drive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4
71a54xd 3y ago
They do realize "Squad Car" is often conflated with police vehicles, right?
- jollyllama 3y ago
  Yep. Another poorly named, confusing, and ambiguous product.
cush 3y ago
If the big cars didn't pose such a danger, electric bicycles would already be our primary alternative for city driving. They're fast, quiet, cheap, and reliable, and every year they're getting better and better
- mattlondon 3y ago
  Except of course it might rain. Or it might be too sunny/hot. Or you might need to carry kids. Or carry shopping/parcels. Or you might need to go faster than an ebike can legally go (12mph). Bikes aren't for everyone.
  - neoberg 3y ago
    Except of course none of these are issues for biking. Weather situation is the same as walking; you need to dress properly. And there are countless solution for carrying kids or groceries. We go to kindergarten everyday by bike, a child trailer works very well. > Or you might need to go faster than an ebike can legally go (12mph). Yes, then you use the car or public transport.
    - bufferoverflow 3y ago
      > Except of course none of these are issues for biking Except they all are > Weather situation is the same as walking But we're not talking about bikes replacing walking, we're talking about bikes replacing cars.
    - habosa 3y ago
      > Weather situation is the same as walking; you need to dress properly. I love my ebike but that's not really true. Weather feels much more extreme on a bike, IMO. In the rain I get much wetter on my bike than walking. In the cold the weather hurts my hands and eyes. In the sun I sweat more, because biking is exercise unless I go throttle-only. And of course there's the danger aspect. Walking in the rain is not a safety risk for me at all. Biking in the rain is not as safe. So I mostly use my ebike in mild weather conditions and choose other options at the extremes.
  - 3y ago
jeffbee 3y ago
Not sure why this is superior to a Ferla for most people. This golf cart weighs 5x more than, and has less range than, and costs more than a cargo e-trike.
- elliottkember 3y ago
  Have you ever ridden a tricycle while wearing a dress?
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    Are you suggesting that's impractical? I never wore a dress on any occasion but I've certainly seen people combine a dress and a family bike. Then again I've lived abroad so I don't have typical American beliefs about the impossibility of riding bicycles. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0266/3979/4260/files/Royce_-_04_8b274160-0b96-4a23-9fdd-304bbc338052_720x.jpg https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0266/3979/4260/files/Royce... https://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/pr3s_amsterdam_bicycle_many.jpg https://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/p...
    - elliottkember 3y ago
      Sure! Both of those are very suitable above-the-knee summer dresses and absolutely fine on a bike. Below the knee, or full-length, and you start to have problems. Nice to have the option of an enclosed space if you’re going somewhere where the clothes matter.
endisneigh 3y ago
I want an enclosed bike under $2K with cargo. Plzzzz
elliottkember 3y ago
Many people in these comments are saying "this is stupid, why not just use a bicycle?" and I just can't fathom this line of reasoning. The point of this car is not to replace bicycles. It's to replace big cars. Smaller, lighter, slower cars on the roads will make cycling safer. This is a net positive for bicycles and e-bikes and cargo trikes and the rest of the fun things that you are suggesting. This is not an all-or-nothing decision. If we don't support car alternatives, we'll be stuck with cars.
- cstejerean 3y ago
  The people who say that probably live in California (or equivalent) and can't fathom that some people live in places where weather is a thing. Or maybe they're the kind of hardcore cyclists that wouldn't mind cycling in a Michigan winter or an Arizona summer. Good for them. But there's nothing wrong with needing an air conditioned enclosed vehicle to get around.
  - elliottkember 3y ago
    I live in California. Cycling in Michigan winter and Arizona summer are great! I wouldn't mind either. People do it all the time. Having the right clothing is very important. It's okay to have options. Many people who live in those places and have bikes also have cars. Why not have a small car instead of a big car?
    - govg 3y ago
      I live in Madison, which is an incredibly bike friendly city and there is almost no bike usage once winter starts over here. This is in a city with dedicated bike paths and lanes all over town. Under heavy snowfall and -20 C temperatures with wind screeching in cause of the lakes, I really doubt this is a doable scenario.
    - menus 3y ago
      If Finns can cycle in the winter (1), why can't Americans? If it is possible for snowplows can clear giant 14 lane highways, they can clear small 2 lane bike paths 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU Yes the answer is more complicated due to suburban sprawl and lack of infrastructure, but it is not impossible. It is always possible.
solarpunk 3y ago
NEVs! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicl...
syassami 3y ago
This is a joke compared to a BYD seagull. https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1651128414915424256 https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1651128414915424256
- timerol 3y ago
  If you're willing to pay 50% more, require a driver's license, be 75% longer, and not include solar charging, you should get a different vehicle.
engineer_22 3y ago
Neat little golf cart! Looks like fun!
jkubicek 3y ago
"Easy and secure solar mobility for all (EU Only)" We're in the market for a new car. A cheap, small, low-range, light electric car is exactly what we need. I'm putting off our purchase for as long as I can in the hopes that someone make one for the US market... but I'm starting to give up hope.
- sebiandev 3y ago
  Check out Aptera if you're interested in the SEV future. :)
- thomasjb 3y ago
  A Citicar might work well for you, although they're all a bit old now. Apparently the Tazzari Zero [1] is available in the US, otherwise I'm unsure what else is available, and how electric vehicles interact with the US import rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazzari_Zero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazzari_Zero
dopamean 3y ago
I love the look of this thing and I'd love to own one. Unfortunately I live in America and there are very few places that I'd actually feel safe driving one of these. I live in Austin, TX and I wouldn't risk my life on the road in something like this. I wish it wasn't that way but unfortunately it is.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  Parking issues: Zero Emissions: Zero Crumple zones: Zero Chance of survival when hit by a Ford Raptor: Zero > The Squad is surprisingly spacious and comfortable, stable and very safe with a full crash structure, roll cage and belts, no helmet needed. Though they say it has a roll cage, why does it seem oddly weird that they say "no helmet needed"? Like asbestos free cereal.
  - bradfa 3y ago
    Re: roll cage: Possibly in some jurisdictions it may be regulated as a motorcycle? Many times motorcycles require the use of a helmet even if said "motorcycle" isn't a 2-wheeled vehicle with an exposed rider.
freemanofthewan 3y ago
Now that is one smoooth looking ride. I'm referring to the paint since this clearly has the same suspension as a ride on lawn mower. One of our local potholes would swallow that buggy whole. Cute though.
GiorgioG 3y ago
As long as I have a choice, I'm not buying a golf cart pretending to be a real car. Look at the safety specs. It's a golf cart.
crooked-v 3y ago
It's a glorified golf cart, but there's no reason to need more than a glorified golf cart for local trips where I live, given the two-lane streets and city speed limits of 20-25 mph. As with a lot of vehicles I've seen like this it seems wildly overpriced, though. It's listed as €9300 ($10,260 USD). I could get a used Miata for less than that, and it would be about as practical, only a little harder to park, and be usable on the highway.
krashidov 3y ago
Great, let’s incentivize more surface lots. Cars are the problem not the solution
duckfruit 3y ago
Is there something remotely similar for the US market? I would love a small, cheap electric city car and it doesn't have to be solar or anything - though that would be a plus! It would be perfect for my Silicon Valley commute (<10 miles on urban streets) although I appreciate that it probably won't be quite as useful for the vast majority of my countrymen. I have considered a used electric smart fortwo and a fiat 500e, but the combination of upfront cost and upkeep expenses owing to the need to register it as a car dulls their value proposition as a secondary commuter vehicle. I have looked into an Electrameccanica Solo, but as far as I can tell that company has folded after a series of recalls.
- rapjr9 3y ago
  Take a look at Wink Motors: https://winkmotors.com/collections/frontpage https://winkmotors.com/collections/frontpage
- RocketOne 3y ago
  My Fiat 500e has been the lowest maintenance cost vehicle Ive ever owned. And Ive had approx 50 so far (Im a collector). In 5 years of ownership its cost me one 12v battery ($80) and two headlights ($60) because one burned out. That's it. Yup I have to register and insure it but its ridiculously low cost compared to everything else.
jillesvangurp 3y ago
Fully charged did a review of a prototype of this car just yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4 Seems like a nice practical city car and an overall great platform for building all sorts of vehicles on for local traffic. It is a glorified golf car indeed. And that's exactly good enough and optimal for a lot of people. I could imagine a few variants of this form factor that are equally practical. For example, a mini pick up truck version, a convertible (remove doors and roof), stretch limo version (the East German trabant exists in such a form factor), etc.
- uoaei 3y ago
  There is the Kei standard in Japan for vehicle sizes. Being one of the most prominent societies as regard dense development practices, I'd trust that following Japanese standards elsewhere takes a lot of the development cost out.
CalRobert 3y ago
This looks great for when the bakfiets doesn't suffice. Unfortunately, if you drive this in the US someone will likely kill you with their monster truck. https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo
scrose 3y ago
> An average car has a stationary footprint of around 10 m2, a very inefficient use of the scarce space in city centers. A Squad has a footprint of only 2,4 m2, or 1,2 m2 per person. 3 Squads can easily park on 1 car parking spot. This is the biggest issue in the US in my opinion. I believe Smart cars and just generally smaller cars like the Fiat 500 would have been far more successful if US cities allowed cars under a certain size to be able to park facing the curb and extended other benefits like reserving corner spots near the crosswalks for small cars(to improve daylighting intersections) Massive ‘cars’ didn’t come out of nowhere. US policies and subsidies at the federal, state and city level all incentivize them at practically every turn.
cwkoss 3y ago
It's a golf cart with marketing
RocketOne 3y ago
The Squad is a great concept. But the problem in America is not great concepts. Its convincing the public, and therefore investors, that small, lightweight road machines are viable. Aptera is facing the same challenge. The concept is fantastic. Its got amazing engineering and unlike the Squad its a highly designed, efficient machine. But finding funders is the hard part. Its the hard part for every start up. Which is why EV startups fail at nearly 100% rate.
- vm 3y ago
  Investors fund products that people want. These cars have two majors problems in the US: 1) expensive and 2) city parking is painful There will be demand if a company solves those problems in a US city.
  - RocketOne 3y ago
    Well, the Aptera may be expensive but it sounds like the Squad wouldn't be much more than a high end electric bicycle, so not really.
setgree 3y ago
I love the idea, but this looks very easy to steal/steal from: * 350 kg and 1.6m tall = 3-4 people can lift this into the bed of a pickup truck * If the doors are removable, can a car thief get inside just by carrying the door removal tool?
wffurr 3y ago
I remember seeing an NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle) concept at the MIT media lab like 15 years ago. And I might even recall something from the 90s like glorified golf carts. The tech has been around forever. The regulatory and built environment is the issue, reinforced by the status quo inertia of car dependency.
LightBug1 3y ago
Finally... a company that understood the assignment. Thanks. Will be looking into this more deeply.
galleywest200 3y ago
Am I reading this right in that I do not see airbags listed under the Safety header on this page? I see brakes, seat belts, lighting, roll cage, and "safety structure".
WaitWaitWha 3y ago
What is news about electric golf carts? If someone is in a sunny location (ergo have access to their own solar energy), they already have access to "solar" electric golf carts (e.g., Club, E-Z-Go, Madjax, Star, Bintelli, Elit, ICON, Tomberlin) at or around €9300 ($10362, £8209). If someone is not in a sunny location, why would they want such a vehicle? (I believe in Florida, golf carts can be made street legal. https://www.flhsmv.gov/safety-center/consumer-education/low-speed-vehicles/ https://www.flhsmv.gov/safety-center/consumer-education/low-... edit: turns out yes, and do not have to be converted, registered, or titled for road 30mph/48kph or lower roads.)
1-6 3y ago
Perhaps cities should start creating roads that are only accessible by certain car classes. In fact, incentivize people who drive lighter duty vehicles by offering free or heavily discounted parking and charging. There are no reasons why cities must keep cars meant for safely traveling at 65mph clog up the densest roads.
- KETpXDDzR 3y ago
  London has a similar approach. They only allow public transit and cabs.
KETpXDDzR 3y ago
I wonder what the crash test results are. I can't imagine that this car can adequately protect its passengers. Just imagine a crash with a full sized SUV.
- rapjr9 3y ago
  Since they are only usable on low speed roads I wonder how that would affect a crash test, even with a much bigger vehicle. Even SUV's have to contend with crashes with an 18 wheeler or other big truck.

140 points by hochmartinez 3y ago

Looks a lot like the citroen ami - electric but not solar. https://business.citroen.co.uk/ami https://business.citroen.co.uk/ami

teekert 3y ago
I was on Sicily last week and saw quite some of those. Doesn't even stand out that much as people there seem to prefer very small cars (just look at a city like Modica on Streetview and you get why).
- cjrp 3y ago
  They can also be driven by 14+ year olds without a licence in some countries. Pretty cool way to get around.
kamray23 3y ago
Looks a lot like the L EU vehicle class which is more than common in the EU. Go by various names: voiturette, mopoauto, quardicycle, same thing. Big, big issues and very dangerous for a variety of reasons, those being easier or harder to fix. Firstly, we give them to 15 year olds (AM/121 license). This is an obvious safety issue but we also give them mopeds (AM/120), tractors (T/F/TM/Tкт/K/L & AM) and buggies (AM/121) whatever else. Ordinary driving licenses (B) in the EU are always 18 and up so this is our transitional mobility option. They're only meant to go 45 km/h but you know if you give someone a pimped up lawnmower with a plastic body they're going to do their everything to make that little engine work way harder than it should. You can, surprisingly, cram eight teenagers into one if you try – it has two seats. The age thing is relatively easy to fix. Secondly, inherently unsafe design. These look more safe than mopeds. In terms of stability, they're stable upright and mopeds aren't so that's a big plus. Other than that, they're effectively the same vehicle when you get into a crash, that is, you practically become an 80 km/h pedestrian. They give off an illusion of safety though, making their (often young) user base very likely to find themselves in roadside posts due to the high centre of mass and low contact area making these things very likely to tip over in curve at any speed above like 35 km/h. Mopeds can actually often corner faster because they're designed to tip, but they're less likely to be driven with as much impunity due to the complete absence of the illusion of safety given by being inside a vehicle. Thirdly, they are slow. At 45 km/h top speed they are pretty much only useful on local roads which limits where you can go to the exact same range as a bicycle. Being on an arterial for a long time is going to be a massive road safety risk simply because of everyone passing you and attempting to drive on a highway is in fact, entirely illegal. In everything, be it cargo capacity, seats, range or whatever they are equivalent to bicycles in everything but cost and lifetime emissions, especially if they're 2-stroke. Not only that but they don't benefit from the quicker and more free bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure which can cross however it wants and are confined to roads, leading to often much higher travel times despite twice the top and thrice the comfortable riding speed of a bicycle. In literally every way these are useless unless you live in a rural village an hour's walk away from the local town and are 15. Even then, a speed limited car would probably do better. This insight into European driver's license and road safety politics brought to you by a Finnish man who wishes to see not only less SUVs but also less of these things on the roads because they are equally dangerous, although in different ways.
- cuu508 3y ago
  Regarding low speed, these are for driving in city, where you have 50km/h speed limit.
  - kamray23 3y ago
    Yes, and for that they would be useful. However, in such an environment, it will be exceedingly rare for you to need one of these, as you would have to contend with city-level traffic and have to go at least 1.5 km away to even choose one instead of a bicycle. They have effectively the same safety and cargo capacity as a proper cargo bike, as they are super tiny. For families carrying children, bakfiets would fill the same role within that small radius. Therefore this is for intra-city, entirely urban trips, specifically going to places where there are no tram or metro stations within a few hundred metres or when a very small amount of too-heavy-to-carry cargo has to be moved more than 1.5 km, which as we all know, is a definite daily occurrence. Weather is one thing it protects you from, but from what I see on the daily, that's not a big enough issue to wage war against city traffic for for most people. I don't find a good niche for these to succeed other than in very small towns with integrated suburbs but then again people would bike for bike trips and buy a car anyway because they want to get out of the small town at some point. It's a great idea but it either comes with most downsides of L-class vehicles or it loses its niche entirely.
    - robga 3y ago
      I saw some of these in “hill towns” in Italy. You have a 4sq mile town with cobblestones, steep inclines, and narrow “roads”. Perfect. Where I live it’s common for people for buy £4k electric cargo bikes to shuttle <10mi/day to shops and schools. I can see the appeal of one of these over such a bike especially when they were only £6k: more weatherproof, less likely to be stolen, arguably more versatile.
sleepybrett 3y ago
looks like a golf cart with doors
- moffkalast 3y ago
  Add some mecanum wheels and a pallet fork in the front and it also doubles as a forklift in a pinch, how neat is that?

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

It's a golf cart; nothing revolutionary to see here.

throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
It's quite a bit more advanced than a golf cart. Unibody aluminum tub and roll cage, wheels for bumpers, built in solar charger, 4 lithium hotswap batteries, compact design.
- mab122 3y ago
  so more like ATV but electric
- jackhack 3y ago
  As much as I wanted to like it, I am still just seeing an $8000 upfitted golf cart. (spaceframe golf cart) I didn't dig too deeply, but there seems to be a lot of information missing that would be necessary for a purchase decision. My initial criticisms: Air Conditioning is an upcharge -- how much? (It is essential in many regions). And how much does its use affect range? Similarly, how much does the heat affect range? (probably resistance heat- the least efficient type?) What is range in winter, or summer? What about safety - crash tests and occupant injury - what is the result of a 20mph head-on collision? Side collision? Roll-over? Does the "savings" of a cheap car translate into life spent in a wheelchair as a result of a minor fender-bender? The 25/40mph top speed is severely limiting in terms of usefulness. Perhaps city-only use is the only domain? Each battery pack gives 25km range. 2 standard, 4 max. What is the cost of additional packs? What is charge time? How many cycles per pack? Seat belts? Passive restraints? Is there even a spare tire in case of a flat? Taxes and Insurance - what is the vehicle category and how does it compare? Again, I hate to be a dark cloud over this project, but to me a $5000 used gasoline auto seems to be much more practical everyday transportation.
  - bkettle 3y ago
    I think city-only use (in cities with slower speeds than American ones, too) is the intended domain indeed, especially given the “city car” name. In theory, in urban environments where pedestrians and bikers who have no protection at all are common, cars should certainly not be traveling fast enough to injure someone inside any kind of metal protective shell.

liamkinne 3y ago

Stop putting solar panels on cars. It’s just not worth the cost or complexity. That square meter of PV is going to get you at most 250W in perfect conditions. Conditions that aren’t found in cities or even at ground level in residential areas.

throwbadubadu 3y ago
Start putting solar everywhere possible. It depends on lot of factors, not every city is built the same, and even in non-perfect conditions power collected is just a monotically increasing function over time.. cost and complexity always go down with more mass adoption.
thejohnconway 3y ago
Their page addresses that point, it says the panel will charge for 20km of driving in a day, and the average micro car does 12 (not exactly sure what a micro car is though...). Not having to plug anything in is actually a pretty big deal in many European cites where people do not have garages, and on-street chargers are still sparse. I don't know if this will work, but things like this deserve some consideration.
- blamazon 3y ago
  > not exactly sure what a micro car is though... A popular modern example is the Citroen Ami: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroën_Ami_(electric_vehicle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroën_Ami_(electric_vehicle) Vintage, the Isetta: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isetta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isetta
- mysterydip 3y ago
  I would be concerned about finding a sunny enough spot in a city to charge. Even their promo video showed it sitting in the shadow of some building.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  There are two main classes of microcar in Europe. This particular one is classified under L6e in Europe, so has a maximum design speed of 45km/h. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classification) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadricycle_(EU_vehicle_classi...

mkoryak 3y ago

Now that I'll never get a Tesla, what is a good alternative in the US?

komali2 3y ago
Depends on the city. For most cities I've found a bicycle or ebike has the best door to door time (most navigation apps neglect to calculate time to find parking in their navigation estimates). If possible walking + public transit is usually pretty good.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Take your pick, all major car manufacturers and some new ones are making EVs these days.
- tantalor 3y ago
  But nobody is building NEV (neighborhood EV) like this.
  - ehnto 3y ago
    Not sure what grey import rules are like, but Japan has some sweet Kei Cars/Tiny Cars that are all electric. A bit bigger than this but much smaller than regular cars.

shiftoutbox 3y ago

[dead]

komali2 3y ago

https://www.squadmobility.com/cookie-policy https://www.squadmobility.com/cookie-policy > We do not currently support Do Not Track signals, as there is no industry standard for compliance. By waiting for the rest of the industry to simultaneously decide the right way to do the right thing, you too can do whatever you please!

yellowapple 3y ago
I further love how they demand an "industry standard for compliance" when complying with "please don't track me" is literally as simple as "okay then I won't track you". Such nonsense is why I don't trust anyone with "marketing" in one's title.

msandford 3y ago

Looks like it doesn't have any real climate control. Once you have a light, efficient vehicle like this the climate control loads start to become significant vs the actual transport. Might work great where it's super mild all the time like Europe or parts of California. Probably not awesome in the US South.

throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
Removing the doors makes it no worse than walking or biking?
- jiminymcmoogley 3y ago
  probably much better actually, since you're not exerting yourself physically
  - laputan_machine 3y ago
    A lack of physical exertion is a large cause of obesity and depression. Human innovation tends towards us making our lives easier (so: less physical exercise). Quite the dilemma!
    - throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
      And some people are physically impaired and cannot walk or bike. The able world would love to forget about them or force them into 3 hour long bus routes, but besides that being incredibly unfair, it's just not necessary if there is alternative transportation.
      - atonse 3y ago
        I’ve actually seen some really impressive scooters that take care of this actually. The issue I’ve seen (can only speak for a large city in the US) is still accessibility. Like entrances, finding elevators, ramps, etc. especially in older buildings. For the record I got to experience this first hand when I hung out with an old colleague who was injured in a car crash. And this was at the DC convention center, a relatively new building. Finding elevators and navigating around took way longer, especially when you were lost. But I will say that it was amazing how everyone around him was willing to help in any way they could.

passive 3y ago

Dang, I hope these make it to Canada. I had been considering picking up an older Leaf to supplement our SUV for short trips, but having something that would charge itself via solar would be nice step up from that.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

Economic analysis of putting solar on golf buggy carts, which this is fairly similar to, suggests this is a good idea: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15567036.2020.1792589 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15567036.2020.1...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

PragmaticPulp 3y ago

Interesting concept. I’m interested to see how many people will find a use for microcars like this: > Max speed 45 km/h (L6) 70 km/h (L7) To put it in perspective, the L6 homologated version tops out at 28mph. That’s marginally faster than a golf cart. The whole concept feels a lot like a very, very well designed golf cart. The bigger L7 version can go a little over 40mph. Thinking of my normal shopping and daily routine, I could make that work. Would be interesting to have an option like this available. I don’t think I’d actually feel safe driving it mixed in with normal size cars at 40mph, though.

tuyiown 3y ago
I suspect 45kmph is enough for driving in dense part of many cities in the world. Very likely not true in the US, but my main concern would be the risk of being very easily crushed by heavier vehicles.
elliottkember 3y ago
> 28mph. That’s marginally faster than a golf cart Golf carts do not go 28 miles per hour.

incomingpain 3y ago

The price aside. I love the idea, been following betterbike and elf and a couple others. I drive once maybe twice a week. Solar powered makes sense for my use case. The thing ought to be fully powered all the time. What I'm hoping for is the VW ID buzz camper van hopefully has solar roof. That'll be amazing.

shrx 3y ago

I park my car inside a garage, no way to charge it. If everyone would have to park their cars outside this would take a lot of additional parking space.

yellowapple 3y ago
If this can plug in, then as long as your garage has an outlet you should be fine. If this can't plug in, then I question the sanity of the designer of this thing.
- elliottkember 3y ago
  > Alternatively the batteries can be charged directly on a regular power plug or a charge point. The swappable batteries can also be charged externally of the car. This is FAQ #2
timerol 3y ago
The batteries are removable and can be carried inside and charged separately. They likely weigh around 30 lbs each (up to 4 can be installed), based on comparable batteries, but I see the weight is listed

Entinel 3y ago

I like the idea but in a world of Hummers and lifted trucks I wouldn't feel safe no matter how indestructible they claim the body is.

jackhack 3y ago
Not just modified vehicles or hummers, but a road filled with SUVs, minivans, delivery trucks, crossovers. Even a "standard" Ford F150 is goliath, and an indestructable frame won't save you. To the contrary, a super-rigid frame translates into occupant injury. Crumple zones, energy absorbing materials, deformation of structures = survivability. A 20 mph head-on collision in a 1950s auto with a full frame design is often far more serious than a 40 mph collision in a modern auto. Head-to-head comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U (likely death vs possible foot injury) Now contemplate a 6' long vehicle with 1' or less of "crumple zone".
- teekert 3y ago
  Where I live people are on bikes, ebikes, escooters and cargo bikes all over the roads anyway so this fits right in. I drove through Texas in a small Kia once, indeed, I was always afraid someone would fail to notice me and drive over the car thinking "what was that?"

warrenmiller 3y ago

Built by the Dutch for Dutch cities - these sort of vehicles are all over Amsterdam, mostly by people who can't be bothered to cycle and 16 year olds :)

clnq 3y ago

I really like these small electric cars, and I plan to buy one even if only just for fun in the next ten years. They fill a niche between electric scooters/bikes and regular cars. In most cities, an electric scooter is usually enough for me. But they don't work well in rain, snow, or ice as they have no protection from the elements. A small car with a roof does. Also, if the car can pull 10+ km of range out of thin air through solar power every day, that's just a cherry on top. The only letdown I have with these cars is their appearance. Why do they often seem so rough around the edges? The Microlino 2.0 is the only EV micro car I've come across with a somewhat attractive design. In comparison, the TWIZY, AMI, and Squad models just seem plasticky, uncomfortable, and cheaply crafted. Even many electric golf carts boast a more polished look, not to mention a much better suspension. Is it that the target demographic demands cheapness? What about people who have the means for a premium car but like the practicality (the T-shirt and shorts in-the-office guys as opposed to suit and tie, so to speak)? I'd gladly pay a design premium, even if it's just to make these cars on par (pun intended) with golf carts in elegance, which is not a tall ask.

ilyt 3y ago
> But they don't work well in rain, snow, or ice as they have no protection from the elements. That's honestly lesser problem than the fact 2 wheeled vehicles on ice are fucking scary to drive
- clnq 3y ago
  E-scooters are reasonably stable when there's a small amount of ice so long as you don't use solid tyres. They are more stable than road bikes and city bikes because they have a wider area of contact with the ground. For more comfort, you can under-inflate the pneumatic tyres or buy studded tyres. Also, you feel steadier on them than on a bike because you always have one foot as a third point of contact if you need it, and you feel somewhat more in control than with a car as the inertia is lower. The battery life and dirt/sleet are more frustrating. Don't knock it till you try it. Though be careful for the first time if you do try it, use common sense — drive slower and don't turn as sharply, dress appropriately as you'll be caked in mud. But otherwise it's doable and quite fun.

2-to-15 3y ago

I'm trying not to sound sarcastic, but doesn't an electric golf cart fill this need? These look like a fancy golf cart with a solar panel on the top. Is there a street legality issue with golf carts being on public urban streets? Edited: spelling

Tade0 3y ago
Highly depends on the region of the world. Street legal golf carts are generally a thing - at least in Europe.
- GoToRO 3y ago
  Where can I buy one?
  - Tade0 3y ago
    In Europe I would normally recommend one brand local to my region: https://melex.com.pl/en/products/passenger-street-legal https://melex.com.pl/en/products/passenger-street-legal They have dealerships in most of the EU: https://melex.com.pl/en/distribution https://melex.com.pl/en/distribution But they are somewhat low-tech with their deep-cycle lead-acid batteries.
elliottkember 3y ago
Golf carts do not have adequate suspension for roads. They're designed for wide-open, mostly flat golf courses, covered in grass. They don't do well in a roll-over, either. The size is similar, but the construction is quite different.

sschueller 3y ago

Unfortunate name of "Solar City Car". I initially though this had something to do with solar city and Tesla. I guess they could rename it to Squad Solar Urban Car or something. This is similar to some other such vehicles[1] which can be driven by 16+ year olds with just a Mopet license. They however only go up to 45km/h which is fine in many cities which have a speed limit of 30 but just outside it becomes and issue if you can't go 50-60km/h. Cars that are a little bigger like the microlino[2] which can do 80km/h but require a regular license seem more usable. Although personally I think it is butt ugly and I don't get why these vehicles have to look different than regular vehicles. [1] https://www.eta.co.uk/2011/03/18/electric-car-you-dont-need-a-licence-for/ https://www.eta.co.uk/2011/03/18/electric-car-you-dont-need-... [2] https://www.newlyswissed.com/microlino-swiss-microcar/ https://www.newlyswissed.com/microlino-swiss-microcar/

bryanlarsen 3y ago
One of the reasons for the looks of this car is that its wheels extend beyond the car, effectively acting as bumpers. In the Fully Charged preview[0] Jack demonstrates parking by running into the curb. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4
- sschueller 3y ago
  I think the squad looks alright, the microlino look awkward.
ilyt 3y ago
I feel like they can't really exists in environment when they can be hit by cars weighting 3-4x as much
- teekert 3y ago
  I'm often on a bike, where I can be hit by vehicles weighting 100x as much :)
  - 3y ago

bkettle 3y ago

The widespread use of huge, highway-built vehicles (that is, all American cars) for short trips in US cities has been sticking out to me recently as a major safety hazard and detractor from pleasant urban living. Highway-built cars are fundamentally incompatible with human-scale living: they are loud and accelerate quickly while being soundproof, isolating the occupants from the effects they have on their environment. Sleek, reflective windshields and tinted windows also make it difficult for pedestrians and bikers to make eye contact with car drivers, dehumanizing interactions with vehicles and increasing reliance on inflexible measures like traffic lights that would not be required on a more human scale. I would love to see small cars like these come into more widespread use in the the U.S., with carsharing programs providing cars as needed for highway driving. This change could come much more quickly than the large-scale urban design improvements we will eventually need to totally reduce reliance on cars in cities. As it is, many city streets are too fast for these cars to be comfortable. I would love to see a general slowing-down of vehicles in US cities and towns that makes city vehicles like these practical, and, on top of the obvious safety benefits for all the cities that claim to have “vision zero”, I don’t think it would come with many downsides. Even outside of a city center for in-town trips of a few miles, 28mph is really quite fast—a matter of a few extra minutes compared to current dangerous city speeds.

ilyt 3y ago
But slowing down means every vehicle is on road longer, so even more vehicles in peak traffic. I think problem is that many of high speed roads are also very "interfering"; highway circling a city is not really a problem and can be decently isolated, but high speed road full of streets flowing into it just makes for many more chances for accidents.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jonas21 3y ago
  Slowing a road down doesn't decrease its throughput (at least not until you get to very low speeds). The minimum spacing required between cars is proportional to speed.

Tade0 3y ago

Just like things keep evolving into crabs, the final stage of vehicular evolution is the humble golf cart. I don't drive daily, but if I did, I would get this. It's 48% width and 40% the length of a parking spot according to current building standards around here, meaning I could squeeze four of these in there. I'm assuming that at 350kg I could just push this thing into place, thus avoiding the need to exit to the side once it's parked. And on top of that it even costs around 1/4 of what I would pay for a car. EDIT: here's a review and test drive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4

71a54xd 3y ago

They do realize "Squad Car" is often conflated with police vehicles, right?

jollyllama 3y ago
Yep. Another poorly named, confusing, and ambiguous product.

cush 3y ago

If the big cars didn't pose such a danger, electric bicycles would already be our primary alternative for city driving. They're fast, quiet, cheap, and reliable, and every year they're getting better and better

mattlondon 3y ago
Except of course it might rain. Or it might be too sunny/hot. Or you might need to carry kids. Or carry shopping/parcels. Or you might need to go faster than an ebike can legally go (12mph). Bikes aren't for everyone.
- neoberg 3y ago
  Except of course none of these are issues for biking. Weather situation is the same as walking; you need to dress properly. And there are countless solution for carrying kids or groceries. We go to kindergarten everyday by bike, a child trailer works very well. > Or you might need to go faster than an ebike can legally go (12mph). Yes, then you use the car or public transport.
  - bufferoverflow 3y ago
    > Except of course none of these are issues for biking Except they all are > Weather situation is the same as walking But we're not talking about bikes replacing walking, we're talking about bikes replacing cars.
  - habosa 3y ago
    > Weather situation is the same as walking; you need to dress properly. I love my ebike but that's not really true. Weather feels much more extreme on a bike, IMO. In the rain I get much wetter on my bike than walking. In the cold the weather hurts my hands and eyes. In the sun I sweat more, because biking is exercise unless I go throttle-only. And of course there's the danger aspect. Walking in the rain is not a safety risk for me at all. Biking in the rain is not as safe. So I mostly use my ebike in mild weather conditions and choose other options at the extremes.
- 3y ago

jeffbee 3y ago

Not sure why this is superior to a Ferla for most people. This golf cart weighs 5x more than, and has less range than, and costs more than a cargo e-trike.

elliottkember 3y ago
Have you ever ridden a tricycle while wearing a dress?
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Are you suggesting that's impractical? I never wore a dress on any occasion but I've certainly seen people combine a dress and a family bike. Then again I've lived abroad so I don't have typical American beliefs about the impossibility of riding bicycles. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0266/3979/4260/files/Royce_-_04_8b274160-0b96-4a23-9fdd-304bbc338052_720x.jpg https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0266/3979/4260/files/Royce... https://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/pr3s_amsterdam_bicycle_many.jpg https://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/p...
  - elliottkember 3y ago
    Sure! Both of those are very suitable above-the-knee summer dresses and absolutely fine on a bike. Below the knee, or full-length, and you start to have problems. Nice to have the option of an enclosed space if you’re going somewhere where the clothes matter.

endisneigh 3y ago

I want an enclosed bike under $2K with cargo. Plzzzz

elliottkember 3y ago

Many people in these comments are saying "this is stupid, why not just use a bicycle?" and I just can't fathom this line of reasoning. The point of this car is not to replace bicycles. It's to replace big cars. Smaller, lighter, slower cars on the roads will make cycling safer. This is a net positive for bicycles and e-bikes and cargo trikes and the rest of the fun things that you are suggesting. This is not an all-or-nothing decision. If we don't support car alternatives, we'll be stuck with cars.

cstejerean 3y ago
The people who say that probably live in California (or equivalent) and can't fathom that some people live in places where weather is a thing. Or maybe they're the kind of hardcore cyclists that wouldn't mind cycling in a Michigan winter or an Arizona summer. Good for them. But there's nothing wrong with needing an air conditioned enclosed vehicle to get around.
- elliottkember 3y ago
  I live in California. Cycling in Michigan winter and Arizona summer are great! I wouldn't mind either. People do it all the time. Having the right clothing is very important. It's okay to have options. Many people who live in those places and have bikes also have cars. Why not have a small car instead of a big car?
  - govg 3y ago
    I live in Madison, which is an incredibly bike friendly city and there is almost no bike usage once winter starts over here. This is in a city with dedicated bike paths and lanes all over town. Under heavy snowfall and -20 C temperatures with wind screeching in cause of the lakes, I really doubt this is a doable scenario.
  - menus 3y ago
    If Finns can cycle in the winter (1), why can't Americans? If it is possible for snowplows can clear giant 14 lane highways, they can clear small 2 lane bike paths 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU Yes the answer is more complicated due to suburban sprawl and lack of infrastructure, but it is not impossible. It is always possible.

solarpunk 3y ago

NEVs! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicl...

syassami 3y ago

This is a joke compared to a BYD seagull. https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1651128414915424256 https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1651128414915424256

timerol 3y ago
If you're willing to pay 50% more, require a driver's license, be 75% longer, and not include solar charging, you should get a different vehicle.

engineer_22 3y ago

Neat little golf cart! Looks like fun!

jkubicek 3y ago

"Easy and secure solar mobility for all (EU Only)" We're in the market for a new car. A cheap, small, low-range, light electric car is exactly what we need. I'm putting off our purchase for as long as I can in the hopes that someone make one for the US market... but I'm starting to give up hope.

sebiandev 3y ago
Check out Aptera if you're interested in the SEV future. :)
thomasjb 3y ago
A Citicar might work well for you, although they're all a bit old now. Apparently the Tazzari Zero [1] is available in the US, otherwise I'm unsure what else is available, and how electric vehicles interact with the US import rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazzari_Zero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazzari_Zero

dopamean 3y ago

I love the look of this thing and I'd love to own one. Unfortunately I live in America and there are very few places that I'd actually feel safe driving one of these. I live in Austin, TX and I wouldn't risk my life on the road in something like this. I wish it wasn't that way but unfortunately it is.

moffkalast 3y ago
Parking issues: Zero Emissions: Zero Crumple zones: Zero Chance of survival when hit by a Ford Raptor: Zero > The Squad is surprisingly spacious and comfortable, stable and very safe with a full crash structure, roll cage and belts, no helmet needed. Though they say it has a roll cage, why does it seem oddly weird that they say "no helmet needed"? Like asbestos free cereal.
- bradfa 3y ago
  Re: roll cage: Possibly in some jurisdictions it may be regulated as a motorcycle? Many times motorcycles require the use of a helmet even if said "motorcycle" isn't a 2-wheeled vehicle with an exposed rider.

freemanofthewan 3y ago

Now that is one smoooth looking ride. I'm referring to the paint since this clearly has the same suspension as a ride on lawn mower. One of our local potholes would swallow that buggy whole. Cute though.

GiorgioG 3y ago

As long as I have a choice, I'm not buying a golf cart pretending to be a real car. Look at the safety specs. It's a golf cart.

crooked-v 3y ago

It's a glorified golf cart, but there's no reason to need more than a glorified golf cart for local trips where I live, given the two-lane streets and city speed limits of 20-25 mph. As with a lot of vehicles I've seen like this it seems wildly overpriced, though. It's listed as €9300 ($10,260 USD). I could get a used Miata for less than that, and it would be about as practical, only a little harder to park, and be usable on the highway.

krashidov 3y ago

Great, let’s incentivize more surface lots. Cars are the problem not the solution

duckfruit 3y ago

Is there something remotely similar for the US market? I would love a small, cheap electric city car and it doesn't have to be solar or anything - though that would be a plus! It would be perfect for my Silicon Valley commute (<10 miles on urban streets) although I appreciate that it probably won't be quite as useful for the vast majority of my countrymen. I have considered a used electric smart fortwo and a fiat 500e, but the combination of upfront cost and upkeep expenses owing to the need to register it as a car dulls their value proposition as a secondary commuter vehicle. I have looked into an Electrameccanica Solo, but as far as I can tell that company has folded after a series of recalls.

rapjr9 3y ago
Take a look at Wink Motors: https://winkmotors.com/collections/frontpage https://winkmotors.com/collections/frontpage
RocketOne 3y ago
My Fiat 500e has been the lowest maintenance cost vehicle Ive ever owned. And Ive had approx 50 so far (Im a collector). In 5 years of ownership its cost me one 12v battery ($80) and two headlights ($60) because one burned out. That's it. Yup I have to register and insure it but its ridiculously low cost compared to everything else.

jillesvangurp 3y ago

Fully charged did a review of a prototype of this car just yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYroDMTLVt4 Seems like a nice practical city car and an overall great platform for building all sorts of vehicles on for local traffic. It is a glorified golf car indeed. And that's exactly good enough and optimal for a lot of people. I could imagine a few variants of this form factor that are equally practical. For example, a mini pick up truck version, a convertible (remove doors and roof), stretch limo version (the East German trabant exists in such a form factor), etc.

uoaei 3y ago
There is the Kei standard in Japan for vehicle sizes. Being one of the most prominent societies as regard dense development practices, I'd trust that following Japanese standards elsewhere takes a lot of the development cost out.

CalRobert 3y ago

This looks great for when the bakfiets doesn't suffice. Unfortunately, if you drive this in the US someone will likely kill you with their monster truck. https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo

scrose 3y ago

> An average car has a stationary footprint of around 10 m2, a very inefficient use of the scarce space in city centers. A Squad has a footprint of only 2,4 m2, or 1,2 m2 per person. 3 Squads can easily park on 1 car parking spot. This is the biggest issue in the US in my opinion. I believe Smart cars and just generally smaller cars like the Fiat 500 would have been far more successful if US cities allowed cars under a certain size to be able to park facing the curb and extended other benefits like reserving corner spots near the crosswalks for small cars(to improve daylighting intersections) Massive ‘cars’ didn’t come out of nowhere. US policies and subsidies at the federal, state and city level all incentivize them at practically every turn.

cwkoss 3y ago

It's a golf cart with marketing

RocketOne 3y ago

The Squad is a great concept. But the problem in America is not great concepts. Its convincing the public, and therefore investors, that small, lightweight road machines are viable. Aptera is facing the same challenge. The concept is fantastic. Its got amazing engineering and unlike the Squad its a highly designed, efficient machine. But finding funders is the hard part. Its the hard part for every start up. Which is why EV startups fail at nearly 100% rate.

vm 3y ago
Investors fund products that people want. These cars have two majors problems in the US: 1) expensive and 2) city parking is painful There will be demand if a company solves those problems in a US city.
- RocketOne 3y ago
  Well, the Aptera may be expensive but it sounds like the Squad wouldn't be much more than a high end electric bicycle, so not really.

setgree 3y ago

I love the idea, but this looks very easy to steal/steal from: * 350 kg and 1.6m tall = 3-4 people can lift this into the bed of a pickup truck * If the doors are removable, can a car thief get inside just by carrying the door removal tool?

wffurr 3y ago

I remember seeing an NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle) concept at the MIT media lab like 15 years ago. And I might even recall something from the 90s like glorified golf carts. The tech has been around forever. The regulatory and built environment is the issue, reinforced by the status quo inertia of car dependency.

LightBug1 3y ago

Finally... a company that understood the assignment. Thanks. Will be looking into this more deeply.

galleywest200 3y ago

Am I reading this right in that I do not see airbags listed under the Safety header on this page? I see brakes, seat belts, lighting, roll cage, and "safety structure".

WaitWaitWha 3y ago

What is news about electric golf carts? If someone is in a sunny location (ergo have access to their own solar energy), they already have access to "solar" electric golf carts (e.g., Club, E-Z-Go, Madjax, Star, Bintelli, Elit, ICON, Tomberlin) at or around €9300 ($10362, £8209). If someone is not in a sunny location, why would they want such a vehicle? (I believe in Florida, golf carts can be made street legal. https://www.flhsmv.gov/safety-center/consumer-education/low-speed-vehicles/ https://www.flhsmv.gov/safety-center/consumer-education/low-... edit: turns out yes, and do not have to be converted, registered, or titled for road 30mph/48kph or lower roads.)

1-6 3y ago

Perhaps cities should start creating roads that are only accessible by certain car classes. In fact, incentivize people who drive lighter duty vehicles by offering free or heavily discounted parking and charging. There are no reasons why cities must keep cars meant for safely traveling at 65mph clog up the densest roads.

KETpXDDzR 3y ago
London has a similar approach. They only allow public transit and cabs.

KETpXDDzR 3y ago

I wonder what the crash test results are. I can't imagine that this car can adequately protect its passengers. Just imagine a crash with a full sized SUV.

rapjr9 3y ago
Since they are only usable on low speed roads I wonder how that would affect a crash test, even with a much bigger vehicle. Even SUV's have to contend with crashes with an 18 wheeler or other big truck.