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I _rent_ a home, as do a full half of new york state residents. I'd love an electric stove. Every rental I've ever lived in has a gas stove and no fume hood. T

by ahoy 3y ago

I _rent_ a home, as do a full half of new york state residents. I'd love an electric stove. Every rental I've ever lived in has a gas stove and no fume hood. The full half of new yorkers who rent - almost 20 million people - mostly get whatever theirlandlord picked. So when I read posts like this, decrying government overreach, I wonder if you've ever been poor? Have you ever lived here? Do you know what youre talking about at at all? Because the government has never been my problem. It's always a person a few rungs on the economic ladder above me. A boss, a landlord, making my life just a little worse in order to make theirs a little wealthier.

ravenstine 3y ago
Uhhh... woe is you? Plenty of non-poor people live with gas stoves, often without fume hoods, and even prefer gas. Not once have I ever felt ill or victimized because I had to cook on gas.
- crooked-v 3y ago
  I have a nominally expensive home with a gas stove with one of those terrible recirculating hoods, and at absolute best I feel a kind of lingering regret and annoyance about it. It pumps out so much waste heat that I'd be opening the windows while cooking even if I wasn't also mildly concerned about the whole combustion thing.
- JakeAl 3y ago
  Love my gas stove, won't live without one, and it keeps my home warm in the winter even when the power goes out. Gas is much more cost effective than electric as well. Also lobe my gas water heater for the same reason. Hot baths during blackouts. This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity and that doesn't even get to the cost and efficiency of storing it.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    > This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity and that doesn't even get to the cost and efficiency of storing it. Probably depends where you are, as this is very much not the case for everyone.
    - oblio 3y ago
      And even if it were true, trends matter. It's not the case now and for sure it's going to be less the case 5, 10 years from now. We can't build new stuff which is practically obsolete on day 1 and a burden just 10 years from now.
  - dan-robertson 3y ago
    Do your gas appliances actually work when the power is out? I guess you could light the stove with a match but aren’t most boilers going to be electrically controlled such that they won’t work without power. It also seems like a bit of a weird reason to me as a big reason. But maybe you get a lot more power outages than I do. (I would imagine somewhere with a gas main, where gas heating can be economical, would not have very frequent or problematic blackouts. With no gas main, you use butane/propane which is not so economical). Plenty of people have camping stoves lying around which can be used in a pinch.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      It all depends on the devices and how they're setup. If you're in an area that gets really cold AND has intermittent power (which is not uncommon, snow and ice on the lines can take down power) you can either design your setup to work without external power (think: emergency generator, etc) or you can design parts of it to be usable in an emergency (think: stove you can light with a match, fireplace; kerosene heaters, etc). My gas furnace will not ignite without power and the power necessary to run the blower is 15 amps or so, wiring in a portable generator would be simple. The water heater works without any power whatsoever. The stove has electric ignition but you can light it without power. The oven needs power (I think? never tried it).
    - vel0city 3y ago
      Gas water heaters usually have a thermopile for their controls. Once the pilot is lit which can be done with one of those ignition clicker buttons (purely mechanical). There's no electric hookup to my water heater, nor have I ever had an electric hookup to any gas water heater. Gas is also often more reliable than electricity as gas is practically always buried while electricity has many overhead lines in the mix.
    - mlyle 3y ago
      My stove does. My water heater does, but the little recirculation pump on it doesn't so it takes longer to get hot water at a distant faucet. My central heat does not.
    - jjav 3y ago
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Last time I had any kind of electrical power failure was, IIRC, the end of 2006 while living in the middle of nowhere: https://maps.app.goo.gl/uhgrnw1W4KFBoiRRA https://maps.app.goo.gl/uhgrnw1W4KFBoiRRA So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern?
    - ihateyouall123 3y ago
      Because the majority of people rent and have no control over this in their place Mr. spoiled rich guy
      - ben_w 3y ago
        Your electricity is unreliable because most people rent? I don't understand the claimed causal relationship. FWIW, I'm paying rent for my current apartment, we don't have a gas supply, and I've never had a power cut. Indeed, while I am rich and do own an apartment back in the UK, roughly three quarters of the 16.5 years since I've last experienced a power cut was in property I pay rent for, and only about 4 years were in the flat I own and began collecting rent on when I left the country. Which, ah, also doesn't have a gas supply. In any case, not sure what this is suppressed to have to do with reliably of the electricity supply — it's not like landlords get free shares in local power grid companies (or if we do, I missed the memo).
      - jjav 3y ago
        > Because the majority of people rent and have no control over this in their place Mr. spoiled rich guy Sorry but this is nonsense. Your local power utility monopoly is what it is, completely unrelated to whether you rent or own.
    - jjav 3y ago
      > So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern? Might be different in the UK. I have never lived anywhere where blackouts weren't fairly regular. Currently in the backwaters of silicon valley and blackouts are the norm every time it rains, or there's any wind. Or forecast of wind or fear of rain. Thanks PG&E.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    > This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity Practically all of the US has some renewable mix, so all the US already away from fossil fuels generating "all" the electricity (renewables + nuclear being 0%). Over 30% of the electricity in my home is from wind and solar alone. You also really shouldn't be using your stove to provide warmth in your home since you're probably not venting out the NOx, CO2, and CO emissions. CO poisoning kills a lot of people doing what you're claiming is a benefit.
- simplotek 3y ago
  > Not once have I ever felt ill or victimized because I had to cook on gas. Your comment reads like someone swearing smoking has no health impact because they never felt ill or victimized for smoking. Meanwhile, even the World Health Organization produces reports on health risks of household air pollution, where stoves are the primary pollution source. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-air-pollution-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-a...
  - Pigalowda 3y ago
    That’s a false equivalence. You’ve either misunderstood or deliberately linked an article that doesn’t support your claim about using natural gas cooking. “Around 2.4 billion people worldwide (around a third of the global population) cook using open fires or inefficient stoves fuelled by kerosene, biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal, which generates harmful household air pollution.” Open fire/stove cooking is the primary cause of COPD in the developing world, in the developed world its smoking. The WHO is not worried about US homes with gas stoves. This article is not about natural gas stoves. The article is about open fire/stove cooking. I hope others aren’t misled by you. What a shame.
    - evandijk70 3y ago
      The above is correct. Additionally, they even mention natural gas as a viable alternative in the abstract: "It is essential to expand use of clean fuels and technologies to reduce household air pollution and protect health. These include solar, electricity, biogas, liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), natural gas, alcohol fuels, as well as biomass stoves that meet the emission targets in the WHO Guidelines."
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - simplotek 3y ago
        > The above is correct. Additionally, they even mention natural gas as a viable alternative in the abstract: It isn't, and you clearly failed to read the paper because you're oblivious to its context. The "alternative" was open-flame coal and wood stoves, as well as querosene stoves, which cause extreme levels of indoor pollution and health hazard and are in widespread use in underdeveloped nations. Natural gas stoves pollute less than open-flame coal and wood stoves, yes, and are therefore a preferable alternative. However, unlike your clueless claim, this does not mean that gas stoves do not lose a health hazard, or that electrical stoves are not far preferable. The WHO report refutes the bullshit claim that gas stoves don't present a health hazard due to the type and levels of indoor air pollution they create.
pclmulqdq 3y ago
I hope you don't use that stove to cook, because if you do, you are putting hundreds of times more harmful particulates into the air than the stove puts out alone. This is the same kind of "green"-feeling hypocrisy as the plastic bag bans. After Australia banned plastic bags, they found an increased amount of plastic in their landfills. Why? Because people used to re-use them as trash bags and were now buying much thicker dedicated plastic bags for the purpose.
- amluto 3y ago
  > you are putting hundreds of times more harmful particulates into the air than the stove puts out alone. This is true and entirely misses the point. A gas stove emits NOx. Cooking some foods at high temperature emits particulates. Different cause, different poison. Also, an air filter can easily remove particulates, but getting rid of NOx with anything other than outright replacement of the air is not so easy. edit: NOx is for real, and calling it a “green” issue is disingenuous. As far as I know, NOx emissions from stoves are not a particular threat to neighbors or overall outdoor air quality. But they are substantial when concentrated in a house: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.1c04707 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.1c04707 (Seriously, look at the last graph in the supplementary material. Admittedly it’s an oven, not a stove, but those levels are no joke and the operating time needed to hit them is low. Baking a pie or cooking a big pot of pasta with a gas oven or stove in a kitchen without proper ventilation is quite unhealthy. And those recirculating carbon filter vents won’t help.
  - pclmulqdq 3y ago
    > ADDITION / CORRECTION This article has been corrected. View the notice. The studies on this are questionable at best regarding the health effects, and it is disingenuous to say that the science on this is anywhere near settled - plenty of refutations exist out there. If you're worried, open a window.
    - sonarone 3y ago
      Clicking on the correction shows that correction is just on a single figure, so that's not supporting your argument: > A corrected version of Figure 3 is below, where in Panel A r2 = 0.59 is changed to r2 = 0.58.
parineum 3y ago
> almost 20 million people - mostly get whatever theirlandlord picked. So when I read posts like this, decrying government overreach... What's the purpose of an outright ban then? Why not just ban it from rental properties? > I wonder if you've ever been poor? What do you think the median income for home ownsership is? I'm sure you make plenty of money more than most homeowners if you're renting in New York.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- michaelmior 3y ago
  Average rental prices can be as low as $1,000 for four bedrooms depending on the county. I don't think it takes an income higher than most home owners to afford.
- ineedasername 3y ago
  They said New York State, not City. Pick a random town w/ 20k-30k people and you'll see rents as low as $1000. Newburgh is a random example I chose. So there's no reason to think their comments requires them to be more or less wealthy, poor or not poor. Or maybe they've been poor, and now they're not, so they're speaking from prior experience. Or they have friends or family or acquaintances that are poor. It's not like a wealthy person can't have contact with folks less wealthy.
- simplotek 3y ago
  > What's the purpose of an outright ban then? Why not just ban it from rental properties? Read the newspiece before posting questions that you would have the answer to if you had read the first paragraph.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
engineer_22 3y ago
[flagged]
- heatmiser 3y ago
  Source? I am interested to know where the young people are leaving to.
- IIAOPSW 3y ago
  The Metro Statistical Area of the city is 25 million, which differs quite drastically from the de jure municipal and state borders.
  - engineer_22 3y ago
    NY government doesn't govern across state borders?
    - IIAOPSW 3y ago
      What part of "Empire State" did we not make clear.
      - engineer_22 3y ago
        What? I can't talk to the voices in your head, please forward their reply.
        IIAOPSW 3y ago
        They demand an unconditional surrender from NJ.
- ineedasername 3y ago
  >If you're unhappy, make different choices. This sentiment is often on display here and alway out of touch with reality. Plenty of people will never have the right opportunities, no matter their effort, to make any choice they want to put themselves in any social/wealth class of their choice. This sentiment is the modern equivalent of "let them eat cake".
iamdamian 3y ago
I'm a little confused by this take. Anyway, yes I'm a New Yorker and also rent.
apnew 3y ago
I also _rent_. I hate food cooked on electric stoves, so when I was looking to rent, anything that dint have gas stove was automatic non-starter for me. This whole argument that “you oppose a forced choice so you must hate poor people” is just a straw-man. Just because you prefer things one way doesn’t mean govt has a business telling me how I should cook my food.
- crooked-v 3y ago
  I suspect you're conflating resistance cooktops (the kind with coils that heat up) and induction cooktops (which use EM fields to transfer energy directly into the pan). Resistance cooktops are slow and weak, but induction cooktops are just plain better than gas (faster to heat across the entire temperature range, better temperature control) in pretty much every case except when needing a pan that doesn't fit the induction plate (like a round-bottom wok).
  - rayiner 3y ago
    Yeah, and if you’re talking about poor people, what electric stove will their apartment have, resistance or induction? And will they have induction safe cookware? Banning gas stoves would be a huge blow to all the immigrants who rely on cooking techniques (like woks) that don’t work well on resistance coils, and require expensive special equipment to work on induction.
    - zarzavat 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - rayiner 3y ago
        Is the racism unintentional? Asians always seem to be the target of western moral panics about the environment.
    - tptacek 3y ago
      People in China routinely use woks on electric stoves; they're just as common in China as they are here. There's a lot of mythology about woks and wok hei, most of which is based on people confusing restaurant cooking techniques with home cooking. This issue isn't racially coded.
cassepipe 3y ago
Thanks for speaking out, not in NYC but I feel just the same. People love to think freedom is whatever an industry is telling them it is in ads. Health and environmental issues, and social issues for us plebs, only advance with hard won legislation.
dbsmith83 3y ago
Your logic makes no sense. Make laws requiring landlords to properly vent gas stoves, not ban them altogether.
- john_the_writer 3y ago
  Nah.. 90% of places would be grand-fathered in. A landlord won't spend money on fixing the heat, they're not putting in duct work and a vent. Practically speaking how would a building do this, without costing thousands. Who do you think the land-lord will pass that cost to? I grew up in Canada with electric stoves (in multiple rentals). Never once did I have an issue cooking.
  - cj 3y ago
    > I grew up in Canada with electric stoves (in multiple rentals). Never once did I have an issue cooking. This is very much the same as Mac vs. PC debate. It's 100% preference. The average Mac user will go insane if made to switch to windows, and vice versa. The reasons why are almost entirely personal preference, and a quite strong preference at that.
  - dbsmith83 3y ago
    > 90% of places would be grand-fathered in. A landlord won't spend money on fixing the heat... But we are talking about new construction here like the title says, no?
- simplotek 3y ago
  > Your logic makes no sense. Make laws requiring landlords to properly vent gas stoves, not ban them altogether. Read the article. Health concerns are an issue, buy they are not the reason why New York is banning natural gas in new constructions.
  - dbsmith83 3y ago
    The parent is talking about having no vent hood.
jrpt 3y ago
If it's really that important to you, you could buy an electric burner or use other types of electric cooking devices. Also, the poster is correct that it's not the function of government to tell people what type of kitchen appliances they can use in their own home. We would typically consider that governmental overreach. It's telling that society is becoming so accepting of being told by the government what they can and cannot do in so many areas of life.
- oblio 3y ago
  LOL, are you for real? Have you seen construction codes? This stuff happens all over the world and in places with solid democracies. Turns out safety and efficiency need to be mandated because the free market will kill people with 0 remorse and the average person has ~0 market power. Progress is many people working together, through ever more complex communal initiatives such as corporations, NGOs and yes, government.
  - prottog 3y ago
    > Turns out safety and efficiency need to be mandated In a solid democracy making real progress, the onus is on the one introducing the regulation to prove that safety and efficiency will in fact be advanced via said regulation. I don't think that bar is passed here.
osigurdson 3y ago
Having a hood fan should be part of the building code for natural gas stoves. Gas stoves themselves should not be banned.
macinjosh 3y ago
How does a gas stove make your landlord wealthier? What you are really saying is you want the entire world to adjust to your personal preferences, that is childish.
- screwturner68 3y ago
  LL here, my guess is that gas stoves are a little cheaper and I don't have to drag 100/200amp service to every apartment instead of the usual 60amp service they likely have. Add to that getting permits could take years in NYC. I looked into going all electric but the numbers were horrible, it was ~$25,000 per unit with no noticeable difference. There's no greed involved it's just math.
nerdchum 3y ago
I loved gas stoves as a renter. Electric were always shitty and too forever to adjust. Just subjective opinion.
armenarmen 3y ago
For real check out ductless range hoods, a quick search and I found one at around $130

by ahoy 3y ago

ravenstine 3y ago

Uhhh... woe is you? Plenty of non-poor people live with gas stoves, often without fume hoods, and even prefer gas. Not once have I ever felt ill or victimized because I had to cook on gas.

crooked-v 3y ago
I have a nominally expensive home with a gas stove with one of those terrible recirculating hoods, and at absolute best I feel a kind of lingering regret and annoyance about it. It pumps out so much waste heat that I'd be opening the windows while cooking even if I wasn't also mildly concerned about the whole combustion thing.
JakeAl 3y ago
Love my gas stove, won't live without one, and it keeps my home warm in the winter even when the power goes out. Gas is much more cost effective than electric as well. Also lobe my gas water heater for the same reason. Hot baths during blackouts. This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity and that doesn't even get to the cost and efficiency of storing it.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  > This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity and that doesn't even get to the cost and efficiency of storing it. Probably depends where you are, as this is very much not the case for everyone.
  - oblio 3y ago
    And even if it were true, trends matter. It's not the case now and for sure it's going to be less the case 5, 10 years from now. We can't build new stuff which is practically obsolete on day 1 and a burden just 10 years from now.
- dan-robertson 3y ago
  Do your gas appliances actually work when the power is out? I guess you could light the stove with a match but aren’t most boilers going to be electrically controlled such that they won’t work without power. It also seems like a bit of a weird reason to me as a big reason. But maybe you get a lot more power outages than I do. (I would imagine somewhere with a gas main, where gas heating can be economical, would not have very frequent or problematic blackouts. With no gas main, you use butane/propane which is not so economical). Plenty of people have camping stoves lying around which can be used in a pinch.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    It all depends on the devices and how they're setup. If you're in an area that gets really cold AND has intermittent power (which is not uncommon, snow and ice on the lines can take down power) you can either design your setup to work without external power (think: emergency generator, etc) or you can design parts of it to be usable in an emergency (think: stove you can light with a match, fireplace; kerosene heaters, etc). My gas furnace will not ignite without power and the power necessary to run the blower is 15 amps or so, wiring in a portable generator would be simple. The water heater works without any power whatsoever. The stove has electric ignition but you can light it without power. The oven needs power (I think? never tried it).
  - vel0city 3y ago
    Gas water heaters usually have a thermopile for their controls. Once the pilot is lit which can be done with one of those ignition clicker buttons (purely mechanical). There's no electric hookup to my water heater, nor have I ever had an electric hookup to any gas water heater. Gas is also often more reliable than electricity as gas is practically always buried while electricity has many overhead lines in the mix.
  - mlyle 3y ago
    My stove does. My water heater does, but the little recirculation pump on it doesn't so it takes longer to get hot water at a distant faucet. My central heat does not.
  - jjav 3y ago
- ben_w 3y ago
  Last time I had any kind of electrical power failure was, IIRC, the end of 2006 while living in the middle of nowhere: https://maps.app.goo.gl/uhgrnw1W4KFBoiRRA https://maps.app.goo.gl/uhgrnw1W4KFBoiRRA So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern?
  - ihateyouall123 3y ago
    Because the majority of people rent and have no control over this in their place Mr. spoiled rich guy
    - ben_w 3y ago
      Your electricity is unreliable because most people rent? I don't understand the claimed causal relationship. FWIW, I'm paying rent for my current apartment, we don't have a gas supply, and I've never had a power cut. Indeed, while I am rich and do own an apartment back in the UK, roughly three quarters of the 16.5 years since I've last experienced a power cut was in property I pay rent for, and only about 4 years were in the flat I own and began collecting rent on when I left the country. Which, ah, also doesn't have a gas supply. In any case, not sure what this is suppressed to have to do with reliably of the electricity supply — it's not like landlords get free shares in local power grid companies (or if we do, I missed the memo).
    - jjav 3y ago
      > Because the majority of people rent and have no control over this in their place Mr. spoiled rich guy Sorry but this is nonsense. Your local power utility monopoly is what it is, completely unrelated to whether you rent or own.
  - jjav 3y ago
    > So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern? Might be different in the UK. I have never lived anywhere where blackouts weren't fairly regular. Currently in the backwaters of silicon valley and blackouts are the norm every time it rains, or there's any wind. Or forecast of wind or fear of rain. Thanks PG&E.
- vel0city 3y ago
  > This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity Practically all of the US has some renewable mix, so all the US already away from fossil fuels generating "all" the electricity (renewables + nuclear being 0%). Over 30% of the electricity in my home is from wind and solar alone. You also really shouldn't be using your stove to provide warmth in your home since you're probably not venting out the NOx, CO2, and CO emissions. CO poisoning kills a lot of people doing what you're claiming is a benefit.
simplotek 3y ago
> Not once have I ever felt ill or victimized because I had to cook on gas. Your comment reads like someone swearing smoking has no health impact because they never felt ill or victimized for smoking. Meanwhile, even the World Health Organization produces reports on health risks of household air pollution, where stoves are the primary pollution source. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-air-pollution-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-a...
- Pigalowda 3y ago
  That’s a false equivalence. You’ve either misunderstood or deliberately linked an article that doesn’t support your claim about using natural gas cooking. “Around 2.4 billion people worldwide (around a third of the global population) cook using open fires or inefficient stoves fuelled by kerosene, biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal, which generates harmful household air pollution.” Open fire/stove cooking is the primary cause of COPD in the developing world, in the developed world its smoking. The WHO is not worried about US homes with gas stoves. This article is not about natural gas stoves. The article is about open fire/stove cooking. I hope others aren’t misled by you. What a shame.
  - evandijk70 3y ago
    The above is correct. Additionally, they even mention natural gas as a viable alternative in the abstract: "It is essential to expand use of clean fuels and technologies to reduce household air pollution and protect health. These include solar, electricity, biogas, liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), natural gas, alcohol fuels, as well as biomass stoves that meet the emission targets in the WHO Guidelines."
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - simplotek 3y ago
      > The above is correct. Additionally, they even mention natural gas as a viable alternative in the abstract: It isn't, and you clearly failed to read the paper because you're oblivious to its context. The "alternative" was open-flame coal and wood stoves, as well as querosene stoves, which cause extreme levels of indoor pollution and health hazard and are in widespread use in underdeveloped nations. Natural gas stoves pollute less than open-flame coal and wood stoves, yes, and are therefore a preferable alternative. However, unlike your clueless claim, this does not mean that gas stoves do not lose a health hazard, or that electrical stoves are not far preferable. The WHO report refutes the bullshit claim that gas stoves don't present a health hazard due to the type and levels of indoor air pollution they create.

pclmulqdq 3y ago

I hope you don't use that stove to cook, because if you do, you are putting hundreds of times more harmful particulates into the air than the stove puts out alone. This is the same kind of "green"-feeling hypocrisy as the plastic bag bans. After Australia banned plastic bags, they found an increased amount of plastic in their landfills. Why? Because people used to re-use them as trash bags and were now buying much thicker dedicated plastic bags for the purpose.

amluto 3y ago
> you are putting hundreds of times more harmful particulates into the air than the stove puts out alone. This is true and entirely misses the point. A gas stove emits NOx. Cooking some foods at high temperature emits particulates. Different cause, different poison. Also, an air filter can easily remove particulates, but getting rid of NOx with anything other than outright replacement of the air is not so easy. edit: NOx is for real, and calling it a “green” issue is disingenuous. As far as I know, NOx emissions from stoves are not a particular threat to neighbors or overall outdoor air quality. But they are substantial when concentrated in a house: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.1c04707 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.1c04707 (Seriously, look at the last graph in the supplementary material. Admittedly it’s an oven, not a stove, but those levels are no joke and the operating time needed to hit them is low. Baking a pie or cooking a big pot of pasta with a gas oven or stove in a kitchen without proper ventilation is quite unhealthy. And those recirculating carbon filter vents won’t help.
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  > ADDITION / CORRECTION This article has been corrected. View the notice. The studies on this are questionable at best regarding the health effects, and it is disingenuous to say that the science on this is anywhere near settled - plenty of refutations exist out there. If you're worried, open a window.
  - sonarone 3y ago
    Clicking on the correction shows that correction is just on a single figure, so that's not supporting your argument: > A corrected version of Figure 3 is below, where in Panel A r2 = 0.59 is changed to r2 = 0.58.

parineum 3y ago

> almost 20 million people - mostly get whatever theirlandlord picked. So when I read posts like this, decrying government overreach... What's the purpose of an outright ban then? Why not just ban it from rental properties? > I wonder if you've ever been poor? What do you think the median income for home ownsership is? I'm sure you make plenty of money more than most homeowners if you're renting in New York.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
michaelmior 3y ago
Average rental prices can be as low as $1,000 for four bedrooms depending on the county. I don't think it takes an income higher than most home owners to afford.
ineedasername 3y ago
They said New York State, not City. Pick a random town w/ 20k-30k people and you'll see rents as low as $1000. Newburgh is a random example I chose. So there's no reason to think their comments requires them to be more or less wealthy, poor or not poor. Or maybe they've been poor, and now they're not, so they're speaking from prior experience. Or they have friends or family or acquaintances that are poor. It's not like a wealthy person can't have contact with folks less wealthy.
simplotek 3y ago
> What's the purpose of an outright ban then? Why not just ban it from rental properties? Read the newspiece before posting questions that you would have the answer to if you had read the first paragraph.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

engineer_22 3y ago

[flagged]

heatmiser 3y ago
Source? I am interested to know where the young people are leaving to.
IIAOPSW 3y ago
The Metro Statistical Area of the city is 25 million, which differs quite drastically from the de jure municipal and state borders.
- engineer_22 3y ago
  NY government doesn't govern across state borders?
  - IIAOPSW 3y ago
    What part of "Empire State" did we not make clear.
    - engineer_22 3y ago
      What? I can't talk to the voices in your head, please forward their reply.
      - IIAOPSW 3y ago
        They demand an unconditional surrender from NJ.
ineedasername 3y ago
>If you're unhappy, make different choices. This sentiment is often on display here and alway out of touch with reality. Plenty of people will never have the right opportunities, no matter their effort, to make any choice they want to put themselves in any social/wealth class of their choice. This sentiment is the modern equivalent of "let them eat cake".

iamdamian 3y ago

I'm a little confused by this take. Anyway, yes I'm a New Yorker and also rent.

apnew 3y ago

I also _rent_. I hate food cooked on electric stoves, so when I was looking to rent, anything that dint have gas stove was automatic non-starter for me. This whole argument that “you oppose a forced choice so you must hate poor people” is just a straw-man. Just because you prefer things one way doesn’t mean govt has a business telling me how I should cook my food.

crooked-v 3y ago
I suspect you're conflating resistance cooktops (the kind with coils that heat up) and induction cooktops (which use EM fields to transfer energy directly into the pan). Resistance cooktops are slow and weak, but induction cooktops are just plain better than gas (faster to heat across the entire temperature range, better temperature control) in pretty much every case except when needing a pan that doesn't fit the induction plate (like a round-bottom wok).
- rayiner 3y ago
  Yeah, and if you’re talking about poor people, what electric stove will their apartment have, resistance or induction? And will they have induction safe cookware? Banning gas stoves would be a huge blow to all the immigrants who rely on cooking techniques (like woks) that don’t work well on resistance coils, and require expensive special equipment to work on induction.
  - zarzavat 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - rayiner 3y ago
      Is the racism unintentional? Asians always seem to be the target of western moral panics about the environment.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    People in China routinely use woks on electric stoves; they're just as common in China as they are here. There's a lot of mythology about woks and wok hei, most of which is based on people confusing restaurant cooking techniques with home cooking. This issue isn't racially coded.

cassepipe 3y ago

Thanks for speaking out, not in NYC but I feel just the same. People love to think freedom is whatever an industry is telling them it is in ads. Health and environmental issues, and social issues for us plebs, only advance with hard won legislation.

dbsmith83 3y ago

Your logic makes no sense. Make laws requiring landlords to properly vent gas stoves, not ban them altogether.

john_the_writer 3y ago
Nah.. 90% of places would be grand-fathered in. A landlord won't spend money on fixing the heat, they're not putting in duct work and a vent. Practically speaking how would a building do this, without costing thousands. Who do you think the land-lord will pass that cost to? I grew up in Canada with electric stoves (in multiple rentals). Never once did I have an issue cooking.
- cj 3y ago
  > I grew up in Canada with electric stoves (in multiple rentals). Never once did I have an issue cooking. This is very much the same as Mac vs. PC debate. It's 100% preference. The average Mac user will go insane if made to switch to windows, and vice versa. The reasons why are almost entirely personal preference, and a quite strong preference at that.
- dbsmith83 3y ago
  > 90% of places would be grand-fathered in. A landlord won't spend money on fixing the heat... But we are talking about new construction here like the title says, no?
simplotek 3y ago
> Your logic makes no sense. Make laws requiring landlords to properly vent gas stoves, not ban them altogether. Read the article. Health concerns are an issue, buy they are not the reason why New York is banning natural gas in new constructions.
- dbsmith83 3y ago
  The parent is talking about having no vent hood.

jrpt 3y ago

If it's really that important to you, you could buy an electric burner or use other types of electric cooking devices. Also, the poster is correct that it's not the function of government to tell people what type of kitchen appliances they can use in their own home. We would typically consider that governmental overreach. It's telling that society is becoming so accepting of being told by the government what they can and cannot do in so many areas of life.

oblio 3y ago
LOL, are you for real? Have you seen construction codes? This stuff happens all over the world and in places with solid democracies. Turns out safety and efficiency need to be mandated because the free market will kill people with 0 remorse and the average person has ~0 market power. Progress is many people working together, through ever more complex communal initiatives such as corporations, NGOs and yes, government.
- prottog 3y ago
  > Turns out safety and efficiency need to be mandated In a solid democracy making real progress, the onus is on the one introducing the regulation to prove that safety and efficiency will in fact be advanced via said regulation. I don't think that bar is passed here.

osigurdson 3y ago

Having a hood fan should be part of the building code for natural gas stoves. Gas stoves themselves should not be banned.

macinjosh 3y ago

How does a gas stove make your landlord wealthier? What you are really saying is you want the entire world to adjust to your personal preferences, that is childish.

screwturner68 3y ago
LL here, my guess is that gas stoves are a little cheaper and I don't have to drag 100/200amp service to every apartment instead of the usual 60amp service they likely have. Add to that getting permits could take years in NYC. I looked into going all electric but the numbers were horrible, it was ~$25,000 per unit with no noticeable difference. There's no greed involved it's just math.

nerdchum 3y ago

I loved gas stoves as a renter. Electric were always shitty and too forever to adjust. Just subjective opinion.

armenarmen 3y ago

For real check out ductless range hoods, a quick search and I found one at around $130