11 ms·

All plants we eat are fertilized. We can stop fertilizing and all die.

by kvgr 3y ago

throwaway09223 3y ago
Yes, but the problem is that meat consumes approximately 25 plant calories to produce 1 meat calorie. It's a reducing function, which means calorie for calorie meat produces 25 times as much greenhouse gas simply from the costs involved in plant production. This isn't universally true - some meat is grown by grazing "free" plant calories. But it is true for grain fed cattle -- for most US industrial meat production. The methane production issue is in addition to the plant/meat production inefficiencies.
- verdverm 3y ago
  There are nutrients and amino acids only found in meat. Where do you get the replacement for this, what does that process look like, are they even metabolically equivalent?
  - galangalalgol 3y ago
    There are no amino acids only found in meat. B12 is mostly only found in animal products, but some fungi have it. As to metabolic equivalency, that is a very good question, studies so far indicate the accessibility of amino acids in plants to the human metabolic pathways varies within our species somewhat widely.
    - smooc 3y ago
      B12 is found in animal products because it's added to their diet. It doesn't come natural them. B12 you get from eating dirt, which we don't like to do.
      - cfn 3y ago
        Are you suggesting we should eat dirt instead of meat to get B12? Ist it even bio-available to us in that format?
        lukeschlather 3y ago
        B12 is not actually synthesized by animals, it is synthesized by bacteria. Most grain-fed livestock are heavily supplemented as well, with industrially fermented B12. You can just get the same industrially fermented B12 we inject livestock with. You don't have to inject it though.
  - Maursault 3y ago
    > There are nutrients and amino acids only found in meat. Where do you get the replacement for this, what does that process look like, are they even metabolically equivalent? Supplements are an easy solution, but I think what you're missing is that you don't necessarily need the massive amounts of those nutrients that is reflected by the meat industry. We certainly do not need to eat as much meat as the meat lobby wants us to eat. In fact, even by your nutrient argument, we need hardly any meat. In fact, of all the things we eat, the most amount of meat we'd need to eat, if we needed it at all, would be the smallest quantity amoung all those things. And really we don't necessarily need meat at all. Using a nutrient argument to support the eating of meat is a bad argument.
    - saiya-jin 3y ago
      Maybe things have changed but when I was a bit into weightlifting maybe a decade ago, common knowledge back then was that some forms of protein (ie amino acids mix of specific types and ratios) can't be realistically substituted by normally eating humans. I mean unless you want to prepare all your meals with scales. Its not about theory on paper, but what people actually eat on a given diet and how their body looks long term. Its a fact that ie vegans lack: B12, D3, iron, taurine, creatine, iodine, calcium, zinc and have generally lower mineral bone density. Given that people with alternate lifestyles tend to take much more care into what they eat and focus on eating healthily and are well aware of this shortcoming, that's not a good result. I mean lets have discussion about morality, sustainability etc. but when it comes to nutrients, science doesn't seem to be in favor of these alternate diets. I personally wish people grokked that just reducing portions would bring massive improvements for everybody, including the planet. We simply eat too much (and definitely too much meat of any type), and often to full when it should be about avoiding hunger. I see 0 activism there, its harder to sell books, programs and overpriced supplements to desperate people rather than telling them this simple hard truth and having them actually accept it and act accordingly.
      - Maursault 3y ago
        > some forms of protein... can't be realistically substituted by normally eating humans. uh... > Its a fact that ie vegans lack: B12, Most vegans consume enough B12 to avoid clinical deficiency by eating foods fortified with B12, including plant milks, some soy products and some breakfast cereals, and B12 supplements > D3, The vegan source of vitamin D3 comes from algae, produces the most body-ready form of vitamin D3, cholecalciferol. > iron, Plant sources of iron include lentils, chickpeas, beans, tofu, cashew nuts, chia seeds, ground linseed, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, kale, dried apricots and figs, raisins, quinoa and fortified breakfast cereal. > taurine, Nori, the papery-like seaweed product used in making sushi, has up to 1,300 milligrams of taurine per 100 grams. > creatine, Supplements are sufficient. > iodine, Sea vegetables such as kelp, nori, kombu, wakame, and arame provide more than enough daily iodine. Common vegan thickeners such as carrageenan and agar-agar contain the mineral, too. > calcium, Sources of well-absorbed calcium for vegans include calcium-fortified soy milk and juice, calcium-set tofu, soybeans and soynuts, bok choy, broccoli, collards, Chinese cabbage, kale, mustard greens, and okra. > zinc Sources of zinc include beans, chickpeas, lentils, tofu, walnuts, cashew nuts, chia seeds, ground linseed, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, wholemeal bread and quinoa. > and have generally lower mineral bone density. Vegans avoid lower BMD by consuming plenty of plant-based foods containing calcium and vitamin D. Eating meat has its own health risks, including a higher risk of ischemic heart disease, pneumonia, diabetes, diverticular disease, colon polyps and colorectal cancer. On average, those who engage in regular consumption of meat (three or more times per week) experience more adverse health consequences compared to those who consume meat less regularly. But the biggest problem with eating meat is that meat industry is responsible for a large share of global greenhouse gas emissions. It contributes not only to global warming but also causes direct environmental pollution. People who eat a lot of meat can make a significant difference in the climate crisis by reducing or quitting meat consumption altogether. Even substituting other meat for beef would considerably reduce greenhouse gas emission. In conclusion, meat sucks. I'm not a vegan, but my biggest gripe is meat is shoved down everyone throats. Nearly single restaurant, at least on the east coast, pretty much only serves meat dishes. Becoming a vegan is difficult because meat is literally everywhere, and animal product is in nearly all food products in some form or other, and even a large number of non-food products. And there is simply too much meat in the US. There is a cow for every 3.5 people. An average cow, including calves and adults, weighs more than 1000lbs and produces nearly 650lbs. of meat. That's roughly 185lbs. of meat for every man, woman and child in the US, which would take a year to consume eating a half a pound of meat every day. It's too much. There's way, way too much meat, and it is hurting everyone, everywhere. So please, don't be so pro-meat. Eat less of it, much less. You'll live longer and healthier, and your sacrifice will benefit everyone.
  - eastof 3y ago
    > nutrients [...] only found in meat Nutritional yeast is tasty and naturally has b12, and most cereals/grains are fortified with it. > amino acids [...] only found in meat This just isn't true, you can get all amino acids from plant-based sources like soybeans, lentils, and peanuts. Source: I have been vegan for 5 years and I still have a healthy 6 minute mile, 25 consecutive pullups, V5-V7 range boulder problem climber, etc.
    - verdverm 3y ago
      https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants#1.-Vitamin-B12 https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-ge... is just one example Most dietary deficiencies take many decades to play out. Vegans require many artificial supplements to fill the gaps. My questions is mainly, are these sufficient or are natural sources better? I'd recommend checking out this Huberman podcast for a set of protocols for assessing your strength, endurance, and more. https://youtu.be/CyDLbrZK75U https://youtu.be/CyDLbrZK75U tl;dr if you focus on one type of athletic ability, you are not optimizing correctly. For example, endurance athletes will have issues with bones and balance loss reactions later in life
      - timeon 3y ago
        Human is also animal. Other animals also do not produce B12. They have it either from bacteria or in case of modern farming: supplements.
    - least 3y ago
      > Nutritional yeast is tasty and naturally has b12, and most cereals/grains are fortified with it. Taurine, Carnosine, Creatine, and B12 don't exist in significant quantities outside of meat. Nutritional yeast is often supplemented with B12 but the bioavailability of it compared to animal protein is low. You will need to take an actual supplement to get the right amount of B12 your body needs to function optimally. You'll also probably need to supplement calcium, iron (with kelp-based supplement), omega-3 fatty acids (with algae-based supplement), and Vitamin D because even though many of these are found in plants and even relatively high amounts, their bioavailability is low. Spinach is rich in iron but very little of it can actually be processed by the body. > This just isn't true, you can get all amino acids from plant-based sources like soybeans, lentils, and peanuts. The amino acid profile in plant sources do not mirror the needs of human beings. In order to achieve a complete amino acid profile you will need a combination of many protein sources like pea, hemp, soy, brown rice, and quinoa. In order to actually consume it and get what you need you'll likely need to make a mixture of protein powders because you won't consume the right amount just eating plant foods.
- totoglazer 3y ago
  Ah yes, clearly no human has ever survived without eating meat.
- least 3y ago
  > Yes, but the problem is that meat consumes approximately 25 plant calories to produce 1 meat calorie. Why is this a problem? Animals also produce higher quality protein with higher bioavailability, have a better amino acid profile that better suits what humans require, and provide nutrients that people cannot get from plants. That's on top of the fact that a lot of those plant calories aren't even consumable by humans.
  - throwaway09223 3y ago
    > "Why is this a problem?" It's a problem because of the aforementioned disproportionate energy consumption. > "Animals also produce higher quality protein with higher bioavailability" Hey look, you don't have to pitch me on meat -- I'm basically a carnivore. Personal preferences don't change the underlying engineering dynamics. > "and provide nutrients that people cannot get from plants." I love meat and I'll defend it as stridently as anyone, but this just isn't a rational argument. I want meat in my diet, but I do not require it to live. There are many ways to achieve a balanced diet either with other animal products, or without meat altogether. The really weird thing about diet is that many (most?) of calories a typical American consumes are in excess of a healthy amount and are hurting us rather than helping us. It's a very strange dynamic, because the vast majority of Americans suffer from excess nutrition -- not malnutrition. These excesses not only hurt our health, they harm the environment. Fat people create far more greenhouse gasses per capita than thin people. I eat meat, but I also eat healthy portions -- which puts me far ahead of most people regardless of their diet in terms of the resulting carbon footprint.
    - least 3y ago
      > this just isn't a rational argument. Taurine, Creatine, Carnosine, and B12 are not found in significant amounts in plants. Heme Iron is much more bioavailable than Plant Iron or Iron supplements. Plant-based diets can also inhibit the absorption of many more nutrients, including Iron and B12. You cannot get the right type of omega-3 fatty acids through a normal plant-based diet, either, you must supplement it with an algae-based supplement. In fact, a lot of nutrients that are abundant in meat and readily absorbed and processed by our bodies probably needs to be supplemented with a pill to get enough of it on a vegan diet. Choline can be found in plenty of vegetables, but are you actually getting enough of it? Incorporating meat into the diet makes it very easy to get enough of many nutrients that our body needs without having to take a half dozen supplements. That doesn't even get into how a plant-based diet can negatively affect gut health and the composition of plants can inhibit nutrient activity and absorption. Nor does it get into how these diets can negatively affect children, either through the quality of nutrition derived from their mother's breast milk or from adhering to a plant-based diet in general.
- smeagull 3y ago
  Meat production also produces fertilizer.
phpisthebest 3y ago
[flagged]
- briantakita 3y ago
  Solar panels & batteries are also made of toxic material. Mining & the material breakdown of these materials spead these toxins to the land they are deployed on. Much of this material is also unethically mined. Children are coerced to mine some of this material. I hate to be the bearer of bad news. You may be able to downvote this comment but you cannot downvote reality.
  - pfdietz 3y ago
    What toxic material are x-Si panels made of?
    - kalium-xyz 3y ago
      Small amounts of cadmium and lead. Honestly you should not focus on that the batteries are the one that a legit argument is for imho. I’ve looked into why solar panels degrade over time and it’s mostly them physically being destroyed. The uv degradation happens very quickly and so isn’t gonna further ruin the panels output after its already been exposed a bit
      - pfdietz 3y ago
        x-Si panels require neither Cd nor Pb. What did you think the Cd was for, btw?
  - Tagbert 3y ago
    Deploying the solar panels does not spread those elements in any significant way. They are bound up in the structure of the panels. In any case it is orders of magnitude less toxins that what is produced in drilling for oil and gas and burning them. Coal is on another scale entirely producing massive amounts of toxic byproducts. Solar is just a fart in the wind in comparison.
- 3y ago
hkt 3y ago
Fortunately, there are other means of fertilising. Green manures - generally annual legumes - are a good option. The difficulty is that this, and other organic approaches to fertilising and structuring soil, require a proportion of land to be allowed to lie fallow for a while. In other words, fertilising the soil with fossil fuel derived products is just.. more profitable. The solution is probably carbon pricing of some kind for fertilisers: the cost of organic farming needs to be roughly the same. Agricultural subsidies are already enormous, so some of them could be directed to food prices directly, to ease the transition for consumers.
imtringued 3y ago
That isn't true. The carrying capacity of the earth would shrink but there would be enough food for at least a billion people.
squeaky-clean 3y ago
This is unrelated to the argument that animal feed from plants is/isn't a sustainable method of carbon capture.

All plants we eat are fertilized. We can stop fertilizing and all die.

by kvgr 3y ago

All plants we eat are fertilized. We can stop fertilizing and all die.

Yes, but the problem is that meat consumes approximately 25 plant calories to produce 1 meat calorie. It's a reducing function, which means calorie for calorie meat produces 25 times as much greenhouse gas simply from the costs involved in plant production. This isn't universally true - some meat is grown by grazing "free" plant calories. But it is true for grain fed cattle -- for most US industrial meat production. The methane production issue is in addition to the plant/meat production inefficiencies.

verdverm 3y ago
There are nutrients and amino acids only found in meat. Where do you get the replacement for this, what does that process look like, are they even metabolically equivalent?
- galangalalgol 3y ago
  There are no amino acids only found in meat. B12 is mostly only found in animal products, but some fungi have it. As to metabolic equivalency, that is a very good question, studies so far indicate the accessibility of amino acids in plants to the human metabolic pathways varies within our species somewhat widely.
  - smooc 3y ago
    B12 is found in animal products because it's added to their diet. It doesn't come natural them. B12 you get from eating dirt, which we don't like to do.
    - cfn 3y ago
      Are you suggesting we should eat dirt instead of meat to get B12? Ist it even bio-available to us in that format?
      - lukeschlather 3y ago
        B12 is not actually synthesized by animals, it is synthesized by bacteria. Most grain-fed livestock are heavily supplemented as well, with industrially fermented B12. You can just get the same industrially fermented B12 we inject livestock with. You don't have to inject it though.
- Maursault 3y ago
  > There are nutrients and amino acids only found in meat. Where do you get the replacement for this, what does that process look like, are they even metabolically equivalent? Supplements are an easy solution, but I think what you're missing is that you don't necessarily need the massive amounts of those nutrients that is reflected by the meat industry. We certainly do not need to eat as much meat as the meat lobby wants us to eat. In fact, even by your nutrient argument, we need hardly any meat. In fact, of all the things we eat, the most amount of meat we'd need to eat, if we needed it at all, would be the smallest quantity amoung all those things. And really we don't necessarily need meat at all. Using a nutrient argument to support the eating of meat is a bad argument.
  - saiya-jin 3y ago
    Maybe things have changed but when I was a bit into weightlifting maybe a decade ago, common knowledge back then was that some forms of protein (ie amino acids mix of specific types and ratios) can't be realistically substituted by normally eating humans. I mean unless you want to prepare all your meals with scales. Its not about theory on paper, but what people actually eat on a given diet and how their body looks long term. Its a fact that ie vegans lack: B12, D3, iron, taurine, creatine, iodine, calcium, zinc and have generally lower mineral bone density. Given that people with alternate lifestyles tend to take much more care into what they eat and focus on eating healthily and are well aware of this shortcoming, that's not a good result. I mean lets have discussion about morality, sustainability etc. but when it comes to nutrients, science doesn't seem to be in favor of these alternate diets. I personally wish people grokked that just reducing portions would bring massive improvements for everybody, including the planet. We simply eat too much (and definitely too much meat of any type), and often to full when it should be about avoiding hunger. I see 0 activism there, its harder to sell books, programs and overpriced supplements to desperate people rather than telling them this simple hard truth and having them actually accept it and act accordingly.
    - Maursault 3y ago
      > some forms of protein... can't be realistically substituted by normally eating humans. uh... > Its a fact that ie vegans lack: B12, Most vegans consume enough B12 to avoid clinical deficiency by eating foods fortified with B12, including plant milks, some soy products and some breakfast cereals, and B12 supplements > D3, The vegan source of vitamin D3 comes from algae, produces the most body-ready form of vitamin D3, cholecalciferol. > iron, Plant sources of iron include lentils, chickpeas, beans, tofu, cashew nuts, chia seeds, ground linseed, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, kale, dried apricots and figs, raisins, quinoa and fortified breakfast cereal. > taurine, Nori, the papery-like seaweed product used in making sushi, has up to 1,300 milligrams of taurine per 100 grams. > creatine, Supplements are sufficient. > iodine, Sea vegetables such as kelp, nori, kombu, wakame, and arame provide more than enough daily iodine. Common vegan thickeners such as carrageenan and agar-agar contain the mineral, too. > calcium, Sources of well-absorbed calcium for vegans include calcium-fortified soy milk and juice, calcium-set tofu, soybeans and soynuts, bok choy, broccoli, collards, Chinese cabbage, kale, mustard greens, and okra. > zinc Sources of zinc include beans, chickpeas, lentils, tofu, walnuts, cashew nuts, chia seeds, ground linseed, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, wholemeal bread and quinoa. > and have generally lower mineral bone density. Vegans avoid lower BMD by consuming plenty of plant-based foods containing calcium and vitamin D. Eating meat has its own health risks, including a higher risk of ischemic heart disease, pneumonia, diabetes, diverticular disease, colon polyps and colorectal cancer. On average, those who engage in regular consumption of meat (three or more times per week) experience more adverse health consequences compared to those who consume meat less regularly. But the biggest problem with eating meat is that meat industry is responsible for a large share of global greenhouse gas emissions. It contributes not only to global warming but also causes direct environmental pollution. People who eat a lot of meat can make a significant difference in the climate crisis by reducing or quitting meat consumption altogether. Even substituting other meat for beef would considerably reduce greenhouse gas emission. In conclusion, meat sucks. I'm not a vegan, but my biggest gripe is meat is shoved down everyone throats. Nearly single restaurant, at least on the east coast, pretty much only serves meat dishes. Becoming a vegan is difficult because meat is literally everywhere, and animal product is in nearly all food products in some form or other, and even a large number of non-food products. And there is simply too much meat in the US. There is a cow for every 3.5 people. An average cow, including calves and adults, weighs more than 1000lbs and produces nearly 650lbs. of meat. That's roughly 185lbs. of meat for every man, woman and child in the US, which would take a year to consume eating a half a pound of meat every day. It's too much. There's way, way too much meat, and it is hurting everyone, everywhere. So please, don't be so pro-meat. Eat less of it, much less. You'll live longer and healthier, and your sacrifice will benefit everyone.
- eastof 3y ago
  > nutrients [...] only found in meat Nutritional yeast is tasty and naturally has b12, and most cereals/grains are fortified with it. > amino acids [...] only found in meat This just isn't true, you can get all amino acids from plant-based sources like soybeans, lentils, and peanuts. Source: I have been vegan for 5 years and I still have a healthy 6 minute mile, 25 consecutive pullups, V5-V7 range boulder problem climber, etc.
  - verdverm 3y ago
    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants#1.-Vitamin-B12 https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-ge... is just one example Most dietary deficiencies take many decades to play out. Vegans require many artificial supplements to fill the gaps. My questions is mainly, are these sufficient or are natural sources better? I'd recommend checking out this Huberman podcast for a set of protocols for assessing your strength, endurance, and more. https://youtu.be/CyDLbrZK75U https://youtu.be/CyDLbrZK75U tl;dr if you focus on one type of athletic ability, you are not optimizing correctly. For example, endurance athletes will have issues with bones and balance loss reactions later in life
    - timeon 3y ago
      Human is also animal. Other animals also do not produce B12. They have it either from bacteria or in case of modern farming: supplements.
  - least 3y ago
    > Nutritional yeast is tasty and naturally has b12, and most cereals/grains are fortified with it. Taurine, Carnosine, Creatine, and B12 don't exist in significant quantities outside of meat. Nutritional yeast is often supplemented with B12 but the bioavailability of it compared to animal protein is low. You will need to take an actual supplement to get the right amount of B12 your body needs to function optimally. You'll also probably need to supplement calcium, iron (with kelp-based supplement), omega-3 fatty acids (with algae-based supplement), and Vitamin D because even though many of these are found in plants and even relatively high amounts, their bioavailability is low. Spinach is rich in iron but very little of it can actually be processed by the body. > This just isn't true, you can get all amino acids from plant-based sources like soybeans, lentils, and peanuts. The amino acid profile in plant sources do not mirror the needs of human beings. In order to achieve a complete amino acid profile you will need a combination of many protein sources like pea, hemp, soy, brown rice, and quinoa. In order to actually consume it and get what you need you'll likely need to make a mixture of protein powders because you won't consume the right amount just eating plant foods.
totoglazer 3y ago
Ah yes, clearly no human has ever survived without eating meat.
least 3y ago
> Yes, but the problem is that meat consumes approximately 25 plant calories to produce 1 meat calorie. Why is this a problem? Animals also produce higher quality protein with higher bioavailability, have a better amino acid profile that better suits what humans require, and provide nutrients that people cannot get from plants. That's on top of the fact that a lot of those plant calories aren't even consumable by humans.
- throwaway09223 3y ago
  > "Why is this a problem?" It's a problem because of the aforementioned disproportionate energy consumption. > "Animals also produce higher quality protein with higher bioavailability" Hey look, you don't have to pitch me on meat -- I'm basically a carnivore. Personal preferences don't change the underlying engineering dynamics. > "and provide nutrients that people cannot get from plants." I love meat and I'll defend it as stridently as anyone, but this just isn't a rational argument. I want meat in my diet, but I do not require it to live. There are many ways to achieve a balanced diet either with other animal products, or without meat altogether. The really weird thing about diet is that many (most?) of calories a typical American consumes are in excess of a healthy amount and are hurting us rather than helping us. It's a very strange dynamic, because the vast majority of Americans suffer from excess nutrition -- not malnutrition. These excesses not only hurt our health, they harm the environment. Fat people create far more greenhouse gasses per capita than thin people. I eat meat, but I also eat healthy portions -- which puts me far ahead of most people regardless of their diet in terms of the resulting carbon footprint.
  - least 3y ago
    > this just isn't a rational argument. Taurine, Creatine, Carnosine, and B12 are not found in significant amounts in plants. Heme Iron is much more bioavailable than Plant Iron or Iron supplements. Plant-based diets can also inhibit the absorption of many more nutrients, including Iron and B12. You cannot get the right type of omega-3 fatty acids through a normal plant-based diet, either, you must supplement it with an algae-based supplement. In fact, a lot of nutrients that are abundant in meat and readily absorbed and processed by our bodies probably needs to be supplemented with a pill to get enough of it on a vegan diet. Choline can be found in plenty of vegetables, but are you actually getting enough of it? Incorporating meat into the diet makes it very easy to get enough of many nutrients that our body needs without having to take a half dozen supplements. That doesn't even get into how a plant-based diet can negatively affect gut health and the composition of plants can inhibit nutrient activity and absorption. Nor does it get into how these diets can negatively affect children, either through the quality of nutrition derived from their mother's breast milk or from adhering to a plant-based diet in general.
smeagull 3y ago
Meat production also produces fertilizer.

phpisthebest 3y ago

[flagged]

briantakita 3y ago
Solar panels & batteries are also made of toxic material. Mining & the material breakdown of these materials spead these toxins to the land they are deployed on. Much of this material is also unethically mined. Children are coerced to mine some of this material. I hate to be the bearer of bad news. You may be able to downvote this comment but you cannot downvote reality.
- pfdietz 3y ago
  What toxic material are x-Si panels made of?
  - kalium-xyz 3y ago
    Small amounts of cadmium and lead. Honestly you should not focus on that the batteries are the one that a legit argument is for imho. I’ve looked into why solar panels degrade over time and it’s mostly them physically being destroyed. The uv degradation happens very quickly and so isn’t gonna further ruin the panels output after its already been exposed a bit
    - pfdietz 3y ago
      x-Si panels require neither Cd nor Pb. What did you think the Cd was for, btw?
- Tagbert 3y ago
  Deploying the solar panels does not spread those elements in any significant way. They are bound up in the structure of the panels. In any case it is orders of magnitude less toxins that what is produced in drilling for oil and gas and burning them. Coal is on another scale entirely producing massive amounts of toxic byproducts. Solar is just a fart in the wind in comparison.
3y ago

hkt 3y ago

Fortunately, there are other means of fertilising. Green manures - generally annual legumes - are a good option. The difficulty is that this, and other organic approaches to fertilising and structuring soil, require a proportion of land to be allowed to lie fallow for a while. In other words, fertilising the soil with fossil fuel derived products is just.. more profitable. The solution is probably carbon pricing of some kind for fertilisers: the cost of organic farming needs to be roughly the same. Agricultural subsidies are already enormous, so some of them could be directed to food prices directly, to ease the transition for consumers.

imtringued 3y ago

That isn't true. The carrying capacity of the earth would shrink but there would be enough food for at least a billion people.

squeaky-clean 3y ago

This is unrelated to the argument that animal feed from plants is/isn't a sustainable method of carbon capture.