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I've designed and built many such TVs for the commercial/industrial vertical. I am currently working on developing such a TV for the consumer market and launchi

• lostlogin 4y ago
  If you survive the lawsuit from Disney, I’m in. I’d prefer a much smaller tv (32-40”) but I’m weird like that. All I’d want is an input for an Apple TV and maybe 2 more hdmi plugs. Doesn’t even need a remote. Good luck.
  • QIYGT 4y ago
    > input for an Apple TV and maybe 2 more hdmi plugs Add more input ports than you think anybody could ever want, and I'm in.
    • lostlogin 4y ago
      The my rule when running Ethernet, double or quadruple the dose.
    • pupdogg 4y ago
      Did AppleTV output change or is it still HDMI?
      • girvo 4y ago
        Still HDMI!
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    Wait, this Disney lawsuit thing is news to me. What's up with that? You're right, in the consumer market, there's a much higher demand for 32-40" display. Our UHD controller can easily handle that and comes with 5x total input ports [ 3x HDMI(V1.4a), 1x HDMI(V2.0), 1x DisplayPort(V1.2) ] and can run 3840x2160 or 4096x2160 resolutions @ 120Hz.
    • debugnik 4y ago
      Edit: Nevermind, apparently they already did claim it.
      • kube-system 4y ago
        Huge companies often dabble in a lot of stuff that people don't immediately associate them with, and hold trademarks for those products/services: https://assets.catawiki.com/image/cw_normal/plain/assets/catawiki/assets/2019/12/26/f/9/1/f910e5c6-4461-4346-9788-10725d7cb630.jpg https://assets.catawiki.com/image/cw_normal/plain/assets/cat...
        • fghsqwads 4y ago
          Just for fun and as a similar example https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/315/502/f76.jpg https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/315/502/f76...
          • kube-system 4y ago
            There's apparently a ton of them: https://i.redd.it/aiahnmp5cd151.jpg https://i.redd.it/aiahnmp5cd151.jpg https://media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2021/7/14/stitch_tv_monitor_20_inches_co_1626281297_2fed75fd_progressive.jpg https://media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2021/7/14/... https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sN0AAOSwMRZilO98/s-l500.jpg https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sN0AAOSwMRZilO98/s-l500.jpg https://s3.amazonaws.com/hopshop-image-store-production/170758217/6a82c6f86410d4b3a939c485a9e1310d.jpg https://s3.amazonaws.com/hopshop-image-store-production/1707... https://946e583539399c301dc7-100ffa5b52865b8ec92e09e9de9f4d02.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/21885/5389703.jpg https://946e583539399c301dc7-100ffa5b52865b8ec92e09e9de9f4d0...
      • monocasa 4y ago
        As has been stated in the thread, Disney has explicitly called out television sets on their trademark application for the term 'Dumbo'.
      • 4y ago
  • schappim 4y ago
    Yeah Disney have the class 9 Trade Mark for Dumbo, and specifically call out: "television sets;"[1][2]. IMNAL, but change the name. [1] https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/trademarks/search/view/1155569?q=dumbo https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/trademarks/search/view/115... [2] https://files.littlebird.com.au/Shared-Image-2023-04-08-06-56-51-W1Rnlw.png https://files.littlebird.com.au/Shared-Image-2023-04-08-06-5...
  • tetromino_ 4y ago
    +1. 32" diagonal, 4 HDMI inputs, and you have another customer.
    • moonchrome 4y ago
      At that size isn't that basically a monitor ?
      • wholinator2 4y ago
        What even is the difference between a tv and a monitor other than size?
        • diffeomorphism 4y ago
          Sound, remote, additional "optimization" like adaptive contrast, (non-accurate, vivid) colors etc., more outputs like optical audio,....
          • hexo 4y ago
            away with those "optimizations" :)
            • diffeomorphism 4y ago
              Agreed. These usually come up when people use the LG oled TVs with pcs and get annoyingly reminded that they are not actual monitors. In particular it can be very difficult to turn these "optimizations" off.
  • nr2x 4y ago
    Just don’t let your TV on the WiFi and use your AppleTV. Same thing, what I do now.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
• kjsthree 4y ago
  Keep us updated. I'd likely pay 2x what I payed for my LG C2 for a "dumb" version. Even if just to support such a project.
  • parker_mountain 4y ago
    Your LG C2 is a dumb tv - if you dont connect it to the internet. You can even buy a $10 IR remote control on amazon and use that to switch inputs. Or, in my experience, all of my external devices support HDMI CEC and auto switch when i use them.
    • mustacheemperor 4y ago
      I have an LGCX and if I hadn't connected it to the internet I would have missed out on some important software updates that significantly improved the display performance. I guess you can toggle the internet on and off when updates are published, but it's not the most convenient solution. Edit: But you can use a USB! Woohoo, thank you repliers!
      • addaon 4y ago
        LG (at least for my OLED model) supports firmware updates over USB, and posts firmware updates to their website. It's a very smooth flow -- my years-old TV has never had an internet connection and is up-to-date.
        • mustacheemperor 4y ago
          Thank you, and babypuncher, for this advice! I avoid using the tvos but dislike how a parade of web connected ads pop up if I hit the dashboard button by accident. Glad I can airgap it again.
      • babypuncher 4y ago
        You can update the firmware on LG TVs with a USB drive, no internet required.
• gnicholas 4y ago
  Sounds great! What price point are you aiming for? Will this be much more expensive than inexpensive Samsungs/Vizios that are subsidized by data collection?
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    I haven't done much market research in that aspect yet but we currently sell our industrial 70" display @ around $9-12k/ea depending on the configuration (ie type of metal shell aluminum/stainless/carbon-steel, ethernet support, protective polycarbonate screen in the front to prevent damage from industrial machinery). However, I expect the consumer grade to be much more cost effective considering the sizes in demand would are much smaller (32-40"). Since I have more experience in sheet metal design/fabrication for the enclosures, I still plan on building these TVs inside a metal shell (specifically aluminum) instead of a plastic housing like your standard Samsungs/Vizios. I'm open to market consensus as to what is the most favorable price point for the size.
    • corrigible 4y ago
      will they retail globally?
      • pupdogg 4y ago
        We ship globally to our customers right now but I believe having a distribution channel for global retail would be much wiser. I'm definitely open to it once we get to that point.
    • gnicholas 4y ago
      FWIW, I'd be looking for a 65" or larger, but to be honest those prices probably wouldn't work for me. But regardless, I'll look forward to seeing your Show HN when the time comes!
• schappim 4y ago
  You're going to want to change that name... Disney... They have the class 9 Trade Mark for Dumbo, and call out: "television sets;"[1][2]. [1] https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/trademarks/search/view/1155569?q=dumbo https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/trademarks/search/view/115... [2] https://files.littlebird.com.au/Shared-Image-2023-04-08-06-56-51-W1Rnlw.png https://files.littlebird.com.au/Shared-Image-2023-04-08-06-5...
  • realityloop 4y ago
    LighTV, the tv without the crap you don’t want!
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    Yes, going to take care of that. Thanks for the heads up. I really looked that one over...didn't think too much of it as the domain was available. It's hard to do anything the easy way nowadays!
    • scrollaway 4y ago
      It's a great name for a non-smart tv, to be honest. But Disney'll be Disney. Good luck.
    • philistine 4y ago
      Might I recommend DUMBY?
      • lovemenot 4y ago
        Dumbox
    • TylerE 4y ago
      What about something a bit more...positive? PureTV?
      • gpm 4y ago
        Or SimplyTV
• whalesalad 4y ago
  Where is that overhead factory shot? I am in Detroit so it immediately made me think of a vehicle assembly line.
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    Small world! Sterling Heights here. Automotive manufacturing plants is a big vertical for us.
  • csours 4y ago
    Well, it's definitely in a GM body shop, but I don't know which one. Maybe Ft Wayne?
• babypuncher 4y ago
  * OLED * eARC * Dolby Vision and HDR10+ * VRR, preferably with G-Sync and Freesync Premium certification These are my requirements for a new display, anything that meets them in the pipeline? My biggest problem with existing "dumb TVs" is that they lack features like these, yet cost more than "smart TVs" that do.
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    Yes, we support OLEDs and QLEDs as is. However, "Dolby Vision and HDR10+ * VRR, preferably with G-Sync and Freesync" are some new buzz words for me. Are they just marketing buzz words or do they actually translate to physical or software specs for the controller board/firmware?
    • dontlaugh 4y ago
      Recent HDR support requires hardware, software and calibration. It looks better. Variable refresh rate is essential for games, to avoid stuttering at least.
    • babypuncher 4y ago
      VRR is short for variable refresh rate, a feature added with HDMI 2.1.It's useful for video games, as it means they do not have to deliver frames perfectly in sync with the display's fixed refresh rate in order to present a smooth experience. I mention G-Sync/Freesync certification, because it is all too common for VRR-capable displays to only do the bare-minimum to meet the HDMI 2.1 spec otherwise. Dolby Vision and HDR10+ are newer premium HDR formats.
      • pupdogg 4y ago
        I'll talk this over with our firmware designer. I believe most of the things you're asking for come standard as part of the HDMI2.1 spec and the latest spec seems to be HDMI2.1a. As of right now, we are only compliant up to HDMI2.0 due to the nature of our commercial market. They prefer reliability over cutting edge. However, I don't see updating to the new spec as a major issue. High-end FPGAs have really come down in price and have made it much easier to accomplish such tasks due to their high throughput capabilities.
• dogma1138 4y ago
  How will you be dealing with movie content? 24fps content is quite hard to display without proper processing especially on large screens when the telesync judder will be noticeable. Also HDR support and DRM will be quite problematic.
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    I'm not too sure about this. I use AppleTV with our industrial display playing back HDR content without any issues. Here's a 4K video playing via AppleTV on a 16ft x 9ft indoor display at our facility: https://imgur.com/a/3O58O8T https://imgur.com/a/3O58O8T
    • dogma1138 4y ago
      Are you sure you are actually playing HDR content? The AppleTV will output 1080 SDR content or even below that too… Do these displays support HDCP? Are they locked at 60 or 30hz refresh rates? There is a reason why computer monitors make really poor display devices for multimedia content.
      • pupdogg 4y ago
        Majority of our customers use our displays for Digital Signage so I would assume we would've heard of their issues if they couldn't playback their 4k or 8k content. Some of them play this content back on videowalls, as large as 14x8 configuration, without any issues. I will double-check with our firmware designer to be sure. From what I know, I believe HDCP is supported by all versions of HDMI. Older TVs, specifically the ones without HDMI input (i.e. component, vga, rca or coax input), wouldn't be able to support this. Majority of our current controllers are compliant with HDMI2.0 spec. Someone else here asked about HDMI2.1a and I'm going to get an answer on that from our firmware designer this weekend.
        • riceart 4y ago
          HDCP is separate from HDMI. You can be spec compliant with HDMI at any version and not support HDCP. That said I would be surprised that a display controller in common use would not support HDCP. 4K or 8K content sure, but what about HDR? Especially at sizes less than 40” that’s more important than res for viewing content.
• donohoe 4y ago
  I'm all for non-smart TVs and have gone that route through not hooking up internet. That said, I think there is a middle-ground here. If its within your capacity, I'd consider allowing a USB connection. If I were able to attach a USB thumb-drive or an external hard-drive (powered though USB connection) and the TV provide a basic visual navigation system. The nearest comparison is something like the current Roku USB app, or a more basic version of the Infuse App (https://firecore.com/ https://firecore.com/), the library structure is a reflection of the file-system. I'll skip the details where a dedicated user can set the cover image for a given video by having a image filer with the same name as a companion to the MP4 etc... I know that would be a huge jump, but I'd pay for it.
  • tremon 4y ago
    And which file formats and filesystems should that USB connection support? Should it support next-year's H269 format? Who will provide firmware updates to add new video formats? That's my main objection to many of these all-in-one systems: the built-in technology support will be obsoleted before the rest of the system fails due to old age. I much prefer a dumb TV with a separate media box/dongle that I can replace with a new model every year to paying for a TV with soon-to-be-stale features.
  • 9dev 4y ago
    That’s straight back in smart territories, and precisely not what I want. Just give me something that shows what it receives via HDMI. Give me two inputs I can switch over, maybe. That’s it.
  • Retr0id 4y ago
    Wouldn't it be better to have that functionality provided via a plug-in TV stick?
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• m3kw9 4y ago
  Classic TV
• noman-land 4y ago
  Please definitely 100% do this. I hope it makes you a billionaire.
• Moto7451 4y ago
  So I have had to suffer being given the gift of my neighbor, an AV-file, setting up a home theater style setup. Personally I’m not super happy with what he did. I have a full size rack meant to be filled with electronics I don’t want, and hundreds of feet of wire to locate said rack to a closet so there is no entertainment unit under the TV. All of this is overkill in my opinion. However… I think this is a core market for you. Between the Enthusiasts on Reddit and the home theater market there are a lot of people that would appreciate a highly tunable screen where they can have their AV closet run the show without Samsung, Google, or Roku in the way. One of the most painful parts of my install was getting an HDMI Balun that would operate in 4:4:4 color space, provide 7.2 ARC, provide CEC, and provide IR… and work reliably. This is a tall ask because it’s supposed to use CAT6 between the ends. The expense of these units was high (300-500) and the reliability wasn’t great. A lot of the reason for this pain is the idea that you can upgrade later without running a new set of wires. Ultimately I said screw it and ran an optical HDMI cable (and am very happy). You would really engage with this market if you integrated this functionality into your TV so you only needed to run a cable and attach the receiver side Balun. I don’t know where the pain came from but this feels like something that the native TV hardware could expose over a cable. Some people have Toslink run through their walls as well which would be a good option to support as well.
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    You're right, extenders can be expensive, but they can save you a lot of trouble if you choose the right one. My go-to choice is Atlona, especially this one: https://atlona.com/product/at-ome-ex-wp-kit-lt/ https://atlona.com/product/at-ome-ex-wp-kit-lt/. The best part is that the destination end is powered by PoE, so you get active conversion all the time. We've used these very reliably (I would say they are industrial-grade) for the past 10 years. We do have a few LCD controller boards that support IP TV, but the downside is that they use 264/MPEG-4 AVC compression for transport.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• aidenn0 4y ago
  If you have at least an advertised number for input latency in the minimum processing (i.e. "game") mode, that would be nice. Few panels in general advertise this, but many reviews of home TVs will do at least one measurement of it. A decent consumer LCD panel will be ~12ms@60Hz, with OLED often being faster. If it's over 20ms or so, I struggle on some old NES games.
• max51 4y ago
  this is the type of monitor I'd buy if the the spec and price was somewhat in range with the rest of the market. I love the idea of single-purpose device in an square metal case that made no compromises for esthetic or to try to fit in a showroom. It's always frustrating to see manufacturers intentionally make their product worse just to look better in a store. I'm sure I'm not the only one who cares a lot more about image quality, latency, durability, etc. than having a fancy rounded plastic case with a laggy netflix integration.
• atomicfiredoll 4y ago
  I would love to keep tabs on this. I'm sure it would interest redditors at r/privacy too. I've often though about going for something like a Sharp/NEC Display, because I often use my T.V. as a PC monitor and want to be sure it's not phoning home, but the idea of being able to slide in a compute module is also generally interesting. One of the things that always stops me is the quality and responsiveness. It would still be in my living room, so I still want a nice picture and features like variable refresh rate for devices like a PS5.
• d0mine 4y ago
  - PrivateTV (only you know what you are watching, or talking in front of tv) - yourTV (you own TV. It doesn't own you. You are not the product--it is.) - dumbTV (smart choice)
• alistairSH 4y ago
  Another “YES PLEASE!” here. In something in the 50” size range. Gotta for it on existing furniture in a small-ish family room.
• rglullis 4y ago
  Is there any chance whatsoever that you can use open source software/firmware for it? I am not in the market for a TV and I am only a hobbyist with a tendency to spend more than I should on anything that lets me open the hood and tinker with it. If there is any consumer electronics company that wants to be the anti-Apple, I'd support it in any possible way. Seriously, I even wonder if there could be some type of "Patreon-based" R&D for consumer eletronics. Get a group of software and industrial engineers to design and build all sorts of different projects, and patreons would get access to early prototypes and would be able to "buy" the finished products at cost.
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    I’m not a licensing expert but my general vision is that if we can get assistance from community firmware designers, I’d be more than willing to champion this initiative. Would love to create an evaluation board that others could utilize around come up with their own interpretation of a perfect display.
    • pabs3 4y ago
      Are you likely to use Linux on your device? Would be great if we could run standard distros on your TVs.
      • jstanley 4y ago
        Are you sure you're looking for a not-smart TV?
        • zamnos 4y ago
          These things are complicated enough to justify an operating system, it might as well be an operating system we're all familiar with. Linux scales down to a basic firmware as well as up to a desktop operating system. FreeRTOS is also an option though.
    • actionfromafar 4y ago
      Look, every TV UI is slow. But how can games have responsive UI on 8-bit hardware? People are doing things wrong. You have a real chance here of having a UI which is instant.
• ianai 4y ago
  Is like a “null” branding instead of “dumb” for what it’s worth. A Null TV sounds techy.
• yumraj 4y ago
  Just call it “Not.TV” - is Not smart - does Not spy on you - does Not show you ads - is Not going to harm your family … You get the idea..
  • oicsmd 4y ago
    [dead]
• fb03 4y ago
  Please! Dumb, and as low latency as it can be (PC/Game Mode). I've never asked you anything, man...
• gclawes 4y ago
  It would be so cool if it supported something like an insertable Raspberry Pi like these NEC displays did, but with standard consumer TV display characteristics (4k, > 60hz, etc) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-epPf7D8oMk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-epPf7D8oMk
• dataflow 4y ago
  Do yours have speakers? Because the problem with "industrial" displays I looked at was they were just that: displays. Not everything you might expect from a TV, like speakers.
  • nr2x 4y ago
    Speakers tuned for a living room as well, a public lobby is a different job entirely.
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    You’re correct, unfortunately our displays don’t have speakers.
• nr2x 4y ago
  The problem is any TV is smart-free if you don’t give it the WiFi password (as article points out), so I’m not sure why’d I pay more for something that would be harder to sell second hand later on? Personally my TV is offline with an AppleTV for streaming.
  • Scoundreller 4y ago
    For now. Until they start including embedding SIM cards or receiving updates OTA.
    • nr2x 4y ago
      That’s a theoretical problem, not a reason to buy something at a higher premium. The sales pitch can’t be “sure that TV is the same as ours for double the price, but wait until nexts years model!” Well, better reason to buy the cheap one today.
  • marshray 4y ago
    I use a game console for streaming. Works great. One problem is the TV nags you to enter set it up every time you turn it on. We have to keep the TV remote around just to use the power on/off button. Not the end of the world, but I'd rather have the product that fits my application.
    • autoexec 4y ago
      > I use a game console for streaming. Works great. I strongly suspect most game consoles are spying on you just as much as a smart TV would and all of them currently seem to be pushing ads in your face pretty aggressively too. Still probably better than roku which records and sends home multiple screenshots of whatever you're watching every second, but if my PS5 isn't doing some form of ACR already I suspect it's only a matter of time.
      • dmonitor 4y ago
        Game console is at least actively updated, has insane horsepower, and can be upgraded. Not the same is true for a TV’s built in interface.
• autoexec 4y ago
  Do you have plans for OLED?
• garyfirestorm 4y ago
  I'd say NotASmartTV(TM)
• MisterTea 4y ago
  I'm glad to see you are actually doing this. I always remember your post from a few years back about building Industrial monitors and talking about this idea out loud and me thinking: "Fuck yeah I'll buy one." That idea has always stuck with me. All my TV's have computers hooked to them, mainly low power x86 systems and run Linux or 9front on them. Linux gets me a browser which makes into a useful internet toaster to watch hulu, browse and so on. Then I can open terminals and whatever while I'm on the couch or in bed. It's 1000x more useful than a smart TV or even a TV stick. Is the rS232 protocol ASCII based? Sizes I use at home range between 32 and 55 inches. And I both stand them on tables or wall mount.
• tmm 4y ago
  That would be great. My main issue with smart TVs isn't the network connectivity, its their horrible UI. The menus are universally confusing, slow and poorly thought-out. And because these TVs have to have some complicated OS to run all this stuff, they're slow to start up. My AppleTV goes from standby to on faster than my circa 2008[1] (only kinda smart) TV and receiver are ready to display an image. The AppleTV should not be the fastest device in the chain. I assume your commercial displays have a time-to-first-image that more closely resembles a computer monitor. That's what I want in a TV. If Apple had a TV-version of CarPlay that TV manufacturers could license, I'd be pretty happy with that. Given that embedded TvOS isn't coming any time soon, my ideal TV would have: * 70" - 80" screen * the smallest possible bezel * 4k HDR * capable of professional color calibration * one HDMI 2.1 input with ARC * TV tuner with auto-scan * any crappy speaker will do (I'm not going to use it) * IR/RS-232 control with distinct codes for on and off (i.e. not toggled) * excellent CEC support * time-to-first-image under 3 seconds, immediate audio Nice to haves: * simulated snow for dead channels/no input (much nicer than blue IMO) * power, HDMI, serial connections should be down-facing * physical buttons on the back of the TV for power, channel, volume, menu * a rear or bottom-mounted red power LED that reflects off the wall/table I would be willing to pay $3000 - $4000 for this TV, with the expectation that it would last at least 15 years. [1] In December 2008, I bought a Samsung LN52A750 52" 1080p TV for $1937. That's roughly $2772 inflation-adjusted. It has a huge bezel; a modern TV with the same physical dimensions would be closer to 60" diagonal.
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    This is a very good and comprehensive list. Thank you! Our industrial displays already have most of your "must-haves," except for three: 1. Professional color calibration - this is doable, but it adds significant cost. When referring to color calibration, it is not the typical marketing gimmick used for consumer displays, but instead something equivalent to what you would get with Sony's BVM-HX310 reference monitor. So, my question would be what level of professional color calibration is acceptable? 2. HDMI 2.1 - HDMI-2.1a to be specific. Our controllers are all compliant up to HDMI-2.0 as of now. This is something in the works, but due to chip shortages, it has been challenging to come by industrial-grade chips/SoCs that handle HDMI 2.1a. However, this is on our radar. 3. TV Tuner - it is unclear if you mean an actual channel tuner or an auto-scanner for the available input. If referring to a channel tuner for COAX-based inputs, this is something that has been phased out, not by us but by our chip suppliers. Regarding the price point, that sounds very doable. My personal expertise is in overall system integration and sheet metal design. The intent is to create even the consumer-grade display with a fabricated aluminum shell that feels rock-solid and heavy-duty aesthetically. FYI, all the "nice-haves" are also already present, with the exception of down-facing connections. Can you clarify? Also, did you check out the pictures from my link above? Thank you again for your valuable feedback!
• gnramires 4y ago
  How about having a built in open source capability that can be turned off/on (i.e. it has a basic firmware/OS, but can boot into essentially a linux distro)? To me that's what would be great, since it extends the main problem that's maintainability of the 'smart features'. Bonus points if the smart board is modular and can be swapped for a new version without much trouble.
• kelnos 4y ago
  Do you have some sort of mailing list I can subscribe to? I'm very interested in something like this, but I expect that I'll forget your post by tomorrow and never hear of it again unless someone sends me an email about it once it's available.
• notatoad 4y ago
  what would you be doing that i couldn't get by just buying a display from one of the big name's "digital signage" lineups? like, for instance, any of these: https://www.cdw.com/search/computer-monitors-displays/large-format-displays/?w=UB https://www.cdw.com/search/computer-monitors-displays/large-...
  • kodt 4y ago
    Mostly saving money. Digital Signage is what you want if you want a "dumb" display, but they don't have TV tuner (which may or may not be an issue) and also are rated for 24/7 use and thus much more expensive than consumer level TV's at the same size. They usually have minimal image processing and very low input lag as well. If you don't mind dropping the money then go for it, but I think most people will want to go for consumer model for much less. Also I am not sure if those support HDR or other features that may be desirable in a consumer display.
    • notatoad 4y ago
      digital signage is <2x the price of consumer TVs. i'm skeptical that an independent can do a comprable product for less, when normal consumer TVs are subsidized by their data collection and advertising businesses, and operate at the scale they do. HDR is a good point, i haven't had a chance to use any of those newer TV features so i'm not sure what i'm missing there. but that's the sort of thing i'd wait a few years for to see if they stick around, or if they're just a fad to sell more TVs like 3D was.
      • kodt 4y ago
        HDR is very well adopted. Basically all 4K content now includes it. 3D was indeed a fad. But HDR is standard on 4K movie as well as video game consoles (excluding Nintendo Switch)
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    Large format or digital signage displays are not necessarily industrial displays. In fact, they would not last long in a real rugged manufacturing environment where they could be exposed to extreme heat, toxic chemicals, dust, weld arcs, and physical trauma caused by heavy machinery. Our company caters to this market by designing and fabricating our own thick metal casings for our displays. We also bond our sourced LCD panels with an additional layer of 1/8” to 1/4” thick anti-glare polycarbonate sheets to help them resist physical trauma. We have also designed our own controller that operates these displays with a super minimal/barebones RTOS. Our controllers can be controlled via RS232, but unlike other displays, we do not have an onboard PHY (Ethernet connectivity capability). This is an industrial requirement that originated due to Stuxnet. Majority of the large format displays in the market today are more like smart TVs than actual dumb TVs, and though they are great products, they would not last in a real rugged industrial environment. I can create large format displays without the smartness for consumer use at an approximate 50-70% of their price.
• mcherm 4y ago
  Do you have a mailing list I can sign up for to let me know when your product is ready for market?
  • pupdogg 4y ago
    Sorry no, not yet. But I will work on getting something setup. Thank you for the suggestion.
    • robbiep 4y ago
      Please do a show HN when you’re close!
• isx726552 4y ago
  Please include decent built in speakers and / or volume-controlled analog audio out. As seen in other comments[0], ARC is finicky and unreliable. I would love to return to the days when I could just switch a TV on and start using it, nothing external required. (Volume control is essential for analog audio out because if I’m going to use external speakers I don’t want to have to have a separate volume control just for that…) [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35488977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35488977
• mileycyrusXOXO 4y ago
  I'd buy it
• Nexxxeh 4y ago
  I didn't see anyone else mentioning these when I started writing. Apologies if I'm repeating someone else! Gamers and retro-gamers are distinct but related groups. Both groups want ultra-low consistent latency as priority, with minimal to none post-processing by default. For modern console and PC gamers, if your panel will support high(er) refresh rates (60Hz, 75Hz, 120Hz as ideal minimum, 144Hz as recommended, 240Hz as perfect) at standard resolutions (1080p, 1440p and 2160p) please include them. If having AMD's standard variable refresh rate (FreeSync) is an option, that'd be great. Both a Display Port and HDMI inputs ideally, but I understand if it's HDMI only. For retro gamers, if you have to make educated guesses as to input settings or processing (deinterlacing for example) please give us the option to override the defaults. And I guess respect what you're told the input is. Don't assume 240p is 480i, or vice versa. You might think that's a given, but it isn't. If you're going to include legacy inputs (like component video, composite, VGA) please ensure they're have low consistent latency. Ideally include support for the (now) sometimes unusual inputs from classic consoles or the ability to add it later via firmware updates or as a stretch goal or whatever. Or at least test the majors from PAL and NTSC regions: NES, SNES, N64, GC, Wii. Master System, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast. Playstation, 2, and 3. (Personal request for Atari Jaguar!) But scalers like the OSSC and RetroTINK line exist for people who need to hook up weird stuff, so there's no massive need to bake it into the TV. So long as the HDMI inputs are low and consistent latency, anything else can be worked around outside. If including legacy inputs is something you're thinking of doing, please have a quick word with Bob over on RetroRGB and anyone else he'd recommend speaking to. [EDIT: Also give the option to display as much info as possible. Resolution, refresh rate, connection standard, audio codec, errors, HDCP standard and status etc.] You may find yourself the primary supplier to the whole retro niche! And if you become the primary TV makers for gamers, you will never run out of market or free advertising. If you'll excuse an odd and personal somewhat scope-creep-ish request... If the colour data from the screen edges were accessible, so Hue Ambilight-style tech is implementable without having to point a camera back at the screen or intercept the HDMI stream inbound (as the Hue Play HDMI Sync Box does), that'd be awesome. No idea how feasible in terms of connectivity and dev time that'd be though.
• pabs3 4y ago
  Have you considered making the firmware open source? Or at least hackable so folks could run open source on it. The BoM and hardware design would be nice too, but thats a bigger ask :)
• eastbound 4y ago
  You should have opened a mailing list, for your first hundred HN customers.
• GrumpyNl 4y ago
  Copy right problems, call it justa.tv
• squarefoot 4y ago
  If you can really make a 100% unconnected one, not even for firmware upgrades (just let me use that damn USB port), or Smart but with 100% Open Source firmware -drivers included-, and possibly sell it in the EU too, I'm in. I'll soon (2-3 months) have to buy one, and I'll be probably shelling out like 3-4 times the cost of a Smart TV to buy a signage display to connect to my Kodi based system just not to have spyware running in my next living room, so unless I'm a complete idiot, I guess there's a market for a lower cost one, even though as a consumer product it wouldn't be rated to last as much as signage displays are. A final thought: Arduino and the Raspberry PI became the reference in the makers community, not because they were better and/or cheaper but because they were reasonably good and cheap, but most importantly they were very well documented and offered standard connectors that would allow makers to build their devices knowing they would be compatible with the new models. If you make a 100% Open Source dumb TV with a rear Open Source well documented connector allowing tinkerers to extend the device functionality beyond adding a TV box (which in most cases just moves the privacy issue one HDMI cable away), your product would be extremely well received by the tinkerers community, and probably much beyond it.
  • Perz1val 4y ago
    > Smart but open source What for? I'd prefer to connect my own computer instead of having a worse one build in
    • squarefoot 4y ago
      Many uses where having a low cost computer device on board might come handy, but one couldn't give away privacy and security for that. Adding an external RPi or similar board today could require some non trivial amount of money (board+case+cables+psu) so if that could be done at a smaller price still maintaining openness, why not?
• MiddleAgedNoob 4y ago
  dumTV
• kentm 4y ago
  Do you have some way for us to keep track of this, for when you release? Personally 70” is a bit too big but I’d definitely be interested in a quality dumb tv.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• MisterTea 4y ago
  Another thing I forgot to say out loud is this: I want it to be more DiY friendly and future-proof. I want it to be repairable and easily customized. Like offer a simple dumb-TV out of the box experience that offers hackers and the DiY crowd a platform to build on. Think MNT Reform or Framework laptops but for TV's. Like ensure the designs don't change much over time so parts are the same or similar between models/sizes. It would be nice if there was some sort of bay to hide a computer inside of that lets the user pop a board in and turn their dumb TV into a "Smarter TV". Something like an ITX bay that can be left empty from factory. I say ITX because it's a standard that gives the owner the freedom to put the computer of their choice into it and upgrade path. RPi or other R-V/Arm SoM/SBC's adapters/carriers could be made to fit in the ITX bay. PSU would be tricky but MAYBE the TV PSU could offer an extra 60+ watts of "user power" 12V/24V DC to an internal molex connector and a little extra room to mount a DC-DC ATX PSU board? Maybe someone puts an FPGA board in there, whatever. Optional freedom bay FTW. I know it sounds like a computer case at this point but I'd love a big ass All-in-one to neatly hang on the wall and run my Linux-Chrome Internet toasters with just a power cable and maybe Ethernet. Top, side, and bottom mounting holes for optional speaker bars or custom speaker setups, cameras, accessories, decor, etc. Just locate a bunch of mounting holes, make the dimensions known and let the users or aftermarket fill in the blanks. If you offer audio, maybe let the user remove the speakers or replace them? Like maybe a bunch of M3.5/M4 holes on 100 or 150 mm spacing around the rear edge, closer spacing at the corners. A simple flat piece of sheet metal can be drilled and screwed to mount stuff. Or hell, mount the TV flush or frame it directly in reclaimed wood using those holes. Anything really. I cant tell you how many times I wanted to mount shit to the sides of my TV but cant. I even made a speaker bracket out of a piece of angle iron attached to the VESA mount and 1/4-20 screws to hang the speakers up higher off the sides because Sony's downward facing speakers are useless. But that is a big piece of metal and side holes would make my life easier. This is a nice way to enable modding. Possible to accommodate a board that features an internal eDP, LVDS, DSI etc to the LCD controller? Not important but interesting. DC power input? For a big 70" I can see low volt DC being impractical but if you plan to make smaller displays it might be interesting to have a 12 or 24V option. I work with industrial automation so I'm all about using 24V where I can. Also maybe a wide input DC supply for off-gridders running 12-60V solar battery banks. Maybe the power supply board and inlet are designed to allow AC-DC or DC-DC supplies installed/swapped in factory or field. And for DC in I'd want a pluggable screw terminal block aka "Phoenix blocks" as I don't like barrel jacks. With all this potential I could allow myself to spend a lot of money on a hacker friendly TV. This is why people pay $1000+ for the MNT reform and framework laptop.
• Bluecobra 4y ago
  Great idea if the panels are affordable (< $2K). A friend of mine had a Panasonic plasma display as a TV and it served him well for a long time. The only pitfall with a display is that there’s typically no speaker, which is fine with me as I would buy a soundbar anyways. I would presume since it’s a commercial display all the service-level display settings won’t be hidden?
• astral303 4y ago
  I am so excited for such a TV, here are some name ideas for you: plainum-TV, gramseye, you-control-it(still comes with a remote), BarelySmart, SmartEnuff, MindYouTech, AllPane, SimplePaneVision, Plainorama, Plainoramic Vision. HDMI such an abomination thrust upon the world. Why do we accept a TV going blank for seconds for any reason in 2023. Lawrd help us all. Can you optimize HDMI resync in any way? That would be a major selling point. Maybe blend the output between what was shown and what is about to be shownn (apply a gentle blur filter to the last seen frame for a few moments and fade to black after 3-4 seconds.. float a gentle explainer message “HDMI sync lost….” After 3 seconds)
• IYasha 4y ago
  Are you considering an OS or even a somewhat powerful CPU? I'd prefer a TV with an ethernet + smb client, but not sure if it fits your dumb tv concept :)