11 ms·

Bosses want hard workers, so they’re hiring older people

96 points by Stratoscope 4y ago

Stratoscope 4y ago
https://archive.is/MYznx https://archive.is/MYznx
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
If I were to be snarky I'd say that young people have everything stacked against them, economically speaking, that they realized that no amount of hard work will ever get them out ahead, so why bother working hard? Just to make your boss or shareholders richer? If you won't be able to afford a house anyway, why bother working hard? Just do the bare minimum and at least enjoy some of your free time in a minimalist way. It's a consequence of economic inequality we have created. If you want people to work hard you have to make it worth it for them, otherwise they check out of the economy, check out of having kids, etc. and blaming them for buying lattes, avocado toast and airpods isn't the real problem no matter how much you call them lazy and entitled. Worker productivity has skyrocketed since the '70, but the workers' wage growth lagged far behind. What didn't lag behind was basic necessities like housing, education, healthcare, childcare. Good thing commodities like cars, TVs and smartphones got cheaper though, amirite? People worked hard in the past because the local company they worked for contributed back to the community and was owned by locals you could see, interact with, hold accountable or riot against them, so even though those were still ruthless capitalists, they also had their limits at which they would exploit their own living environment and contributed back to the community in some way (trainings, apprenticeships, schools, hospitals, charities, kindergartens, etc.) But now, after decades of corporate mergers and acquisitions, when most land, natural resource and means of production is owned by some giant faceless publicly traded mega-corp with HQ in some offshore tax heaven, who's only interest is extracting as much as possible from your community for the benefit of the shareholders, without giving anything back (not even taxes), and you are just a disposable commodity in an excel sheet for them, then why bother?
- newsclues 4y ago
  I fall into the group of people you are talking about. And yet, having a good leader for a manger or boss will still get me to work hard(er), but that is such a rare occurrence.
  - number6 4y ago
    What does a good leader do? Or better phrased: what makes a good leader in your eyes?
    - sirwhinesalot 4y ago
      Not the same person, but for me it is hard to put into words, you kinda just know it almost instantly when you start working with one. By far the most important trait is that they know their team and their strengths and weaknesses, put them doing the right tasks for their skillset, and trust them to get the job done. The second most important trait is a clear vision. They know what they need to achieve, what resources they need and/or have available, and don't waste time on pointless busywork (like scrum poker) Working with someone like that makes work very rewarding. It is unfortunately almost impossible to find such a leader in most big companies as their company structure with 30 layers and PMs and what not simply does not allow it.
    - hardware2win 4y ago
      Talking about CEOs: Competent, has solid strategy, can execute it.
    - cudgy 4y ago
      Good leaders are like good parents. They provide their workers the tools they need to succeed without being overly prescriptive; they hold their workers accountable without being harshly judgmental or showing undue favoritism; they care about their workers and desire their success; they are respected by their workers while at the same respecting their workers.
    - afpx 4y ago
      Has clear vision, can communicate clearly, eliminates distractions, hires talented people, aligns team with goals, goes forward undaunted, reduces team stress.
bartislartfast 4y ago
Jokes on them! I'm old and lazy.
erklik 4y ago
> a part-time position at one of two package-shipping stations > people are living longer and having fewer children—and some retirement-age folks have little choice but to work because of inflation and a weak stock market. ... This is a dystopian story wrapped up in a weird, feel good narrative. First of all, the big position described as an example is a part-time one and at a package-shipping station. Sure, that's work that needs to be done, but it's not going to do anything for a young person looking to afford rent near a urban center, or even buy a house. Of course, the older folks can work there. They don't have to pay rent anymore. They've got their house. Usually near city centers. Let's say that most jobs are not the sort above, i.e. full-time and paying somewhat average. If those are being taken by older folks who are coming out of retirement because "inflation and a weak stock market" ... well, that certainly tells you all you need to know about this. What is this? We, as a society, have created a world where younger folks aren't incentivised to put in any hard work because it gets them nothing while older folks who are meant to be retired are now forced to work even more. > There is no official measure of discrimination claims on the basis of being too young because federal law protects only workers over 40 I don't see the need for one to exist honestly but this is the prefect example of the world being slanted against young folks.
- bsenftner 4y ago
  The world is slanted against individuals.
  - hkt 4y ago
    Not quite: the world is slanted against people whose lives depend on their labour, rather than their capital.
    - chewz 4y ago
      > the world is slanted against people whose lives depend on their labour, rather than their capital. It is called capitalism for a reason...
      - 4y ago
TrackerFF 4y ago
I can say from experience that every place I've worked at, the older workers (50 and up) have had the least sick days and leave. If you have kids, that's a given - kids get sick, and so do you, and most get kids in their 20s and 30s...but it is curious that many senior workers have practically spotless records, compared to their younger peers.
- alanfranz 4y ago
  Anecdata: I took an average of 1 sick day per year until I was 34, when my first child was born. From then moment on (8y have passed), I hover around 7-12 days per year. Quite a change.
- kcplate 4y ago
  I’m an “older worker” and have taken exactly one half a day of sick time in the last 11 years. I’ll caveat by saying that during that time I have had the flexibility to work remote (fully remote the last 3 years) so when I had the occasional cold when I was in office, I would simply work from home to avoid spreading illness in the office.
- DangitBobby 4y ago
  Kids are also much more likely to have life-threatening food allergies. I think you are implying it's a cultural shift (maybe not) but I wonder if the environment we've grown up in has had subtle developmental effects and made us unhealthy, somehow. I don't know about you, but I regularly just feel like shit for basically no reason, and will want to take a day off because of that.
  - dumbotron 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis > I regularly just feel like shit for basically no reason, and will want to take a day off because of that. I feel like I've seen a rise in this. I'm not sure if older generations sucked it up or if it's a new thing.
_a_a_a_ 4y ago
I'm in the UK rather than the US so there might be a cultural difference I've no exposure to, but the following is my anecdotal take: I've had a lot of experience working in different companies and find that competence, intelligence and hard work are distributed evenly WRT age; that is to say there is no correlation. When I hear complaints like this I tend to ask myself "is this a staff problem or a management failure?" And most of the time, IME it's the latter.
lazylizard 4y ago
we also like to hire people who can..er..hit the ground running..need less coaching less supervision and so on. everyone has their own shit to deal with and nobody wants to manage kids.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  That seems like a plan that's only going to last as long as the baby boomers.
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  That's just siphoning the last remaining returns from the previous generation doing actual "coaching and supervision". No thought for the future.
  - ungamedplayer 4y ago
    Apprenticeship used to solve this problem. They are non existent and the tech industry and it would be cool if that changed.
great_psy 4y ago
I don’t quite understand why people should work harder than their parents. Isn’t the whole point of progress that ... you know … we progress towards something better ? What is the point of the productivity gains we had due to automation, if we never get to enjoy the benefits of that ? Every parent wants their child to have a better life than them, better life to most means more opportunities. More opportunities to do what exactly ? More opportunities to work more hours ? I understand the economy does not quite work like that, but I still think it is something we should strive for.
- kwere 4y ago
  the economy work well for its stakeholders, its just that the average joe & jane arent the controlling/beneficiary stakeholders, outside that being enough skilled to not be easily replaced
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
RecycledEle 4y ago
[flagged]
ttymck 4y ago
Go ahead.
RickJWagner 4y ago
I'm generally optimistic about things, and have 3 great kids (around college age) and see good things from them and their friends. But then I visit reddit, and I despair. Or my wife comes back from substitute teaching at the junior high or high school and tells me what she saw. It's definitely a mixed bag.

96 points by Stratoscope 4y ago

https://archive.is/MYznx https://archive.is/MYznx

If I were to be snarky I'd say that young people have everything stacked against them, economically speaking, that they realized that no amount of hard work will ever get them out ahead, so why bother working hard? Just to make your boss or shareholders richer? If you won't be able to afford a house anyway, why bother working hard? Just do the bare minimum and at least enjoy some of your free time in a minimalist way. It's a consequence of economic inequality we have created. If you want people to work hard you have to make it worth it for them, otherwise they check out of the economy, check out of having kids, etc. and blaming them for buying lattes, avocado toast and airpods isn't the real problem no matter how much you call them lazy and entitled. Worker productivity has skyrocketed since the '70, but the workers' wage growth lagged far behind. What didn't lag behind was basic necessities like housing, education, healthcare, childcare. Good thing commodities like cars, TVs and smartphones got cheaper though, amirite? People worked hard in the past because the local company they worked for contributed back to the community and was owned by locals you could see, interact with, hold accountable or riot against them, so even though those were still ruthless capitalists, they also had their limits at which they would exploit their own living environment and contributed back to the community in some way (trainings, apprenticeships, schools, hospitals, charities, kindergartens, etc.) But now, after decades of corporate mergers and acquisitions, when most land, natural resource and means of production is owned by some giant faceless publicly traded mega-corp with HQ in some offshore tax heaven, who's only interest is extracting as much as possible from your community for the benefit of the shareholders, without giving anything back (not even taxes), and you are just a disposable commodity in an excel sheet for them, then why bother?

newsclues 4y ago
I fall into the group of people you are talking about. And yet, having a good leader for a manger or boss will still get me to work hard(er), but that is such a rare occurrence.
- number6 4y ago
  What does a good leader do? Or better phrased: what makes a good leader in your eyes?
  - sirwhinesalot 4y ago
    Not the same person, but for me it is hard to put into words, you kinda just know it almost instantly when you start working with one. By far the most important trait is that they know their team and their strengths and weaknesses, put them doing the right tasks for their skillset, and trust them to get the job done. The second most important trait is a clear vision. They know what they need to achieve, what resources they need and/or have available, and don't waste time on pointless busywork (like scrum poker) Working with someone like that makes work very rewarding. It is unfortunately almost impossible to find such a leader in most big companies as their company structure with 30 layers and PMs and what not simply does not allow it.
  - hardware2win 4y ago
    Talking about CEOs: Competent, has solid strategy, can execute it.
  - cudgy 4y ago
    Good leaders are like good parents. They provide their workers the tools they need to succeed without being overly prescriptive; they hold their workers accountable without being harshly judgmental or showing undue favoritism; they care about their workers and desire their success; they are respected by their workers while at the same respecting their workers.
  - afpx 4y ago
    Has clear vision, can communicate clearly, eliminates distractions, hires talented people, aligns team with goals, goes forward undaunted, reduces team stress.

bartislartfast 4y ago

Jokes on them! I'm old and lazy.

erklik 4y ago

> a part-time position at one of two package-shipping stations > people are living longer and having fewer children—and some retirement-age folks have little choice but to work because of inflation and a weak stock market. ... This is a dystopian story wrapped up in a weird, feel good narrative. First of all, the big position described as an example is a part-time one and at a package-shipping station. Sure, that's work that needs to be done, but it's not going to do anything for a young person looking to afford rent near a urban center, or even buy a house. Of course, the older folks can work there. They don't have to pay rent anymore. They've got their house. Usually near city centers. Let's say that most jobs are not the sort above, i.e. full-time and paying somewhat average. If those are being taken by older folks who are coming out of retirement because "inflation and a weak stock market" ... well, that certainly tells you all you need to know about this. What is this? We, as a society, have created a world where younger folks aren't incentivised to put in any hard work because it gets them nothing while older folks who are meant to be retired are now forced to work even more. > There is no official measure of discrimination claims on the basis of being too young because federal law protects only workers over 40 I don't see the need for one to exist honestly but this is the prefect example of the world being slanted against young folks.

bsenftner 4y ago
The world is slanted against individuals.
- hkt 4y ago
  Not quite: the world is slanted against people whose lives depend on their labour, rather than their capital.
  - chewz 4y ago
    > the world is slanted against people whose lives depend on their labour, rather than their capital. It is called capitalism for a reason...
    - 4y ago

TrackerFF 4y ago

I can say from experience that every place I've worked at, the older workers (50 and up) have had the least sick days and leave. If you have kids, that's a given - kids get sick, and so do you, and most get kids in their 20s and 30s...but it is curious that many senior workers have practically spotless records, compared to their younger peers.

alanfranz 4y ago
Anecdata: I took an average of 1 sick day per year until I was 34, when my first child was born. From then moment on (8y have passed), I hover around 7-12 days per year. Quite a change.
kcplate 4y ago
I’m an “older worker” and have taken exactly one half a day of sick time in the last 11 years. I’ll caveat by saying that during that time I have had the flexibility to work remote (fully remote the last 3 years) so when I had the occasional cold when I was in office, I would simply work from home to avoid spreading illness in the office.
DangitBobby 4y ago
Kids are also much more likely to have life-threatening food allergies. I think you are implying it's a cultural shift (maybe not) but I wonder if the environment we've grown up in has had subtle developmental effects and made us unhealthy, somehow. I don't know about you, but I regularly just feel like shit for basically no reason, and will want to take a day off because of that.
- dumbotron 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis > I regularly just feel like shit for basically no reason, and will want to take a day off because of that. I feel like I've seen a rise in this. I'm not sure if older generations sucked it up or if it's a new thing.

_a_a_a_ 4y ago

I'm in the UK rather than the US so there might be a cultural difference I've no exposure to, but the following is my anecdotal take: I've had a lot of experience working in different companies and find that competence, intelligence and hard work are distributed evenly WRT age; that is to say there is no correlation. When I hear complaints like this I tend to ask myself "is this a staff problem or a management failure?" And most of the time, IME it's the latter.

lazylizard 4y ago

we also like to hire people who can..er..hit the ground running..need less coaching less supervision and so on. everyone has their own shit to deal with and nobody wants to manage kids.

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
That seems like a plan that's only going to last as long as the baby boomers.
xboxnolifes 4y ago
That's just siphoning the last remaining returns from the previous generation doing actual "coaching and supervision". No thought for the future.
- ungamedplayer 4y ago
  Apprenticeship used to solve this problem. They are non existent and the tech industry and it would be cool if that changed.

great_psy 4y ago

I don’t quite understand why people should work harder than their parents. Isn’t the whole point of progress that ... you know … we progress towards something better ? What is the point of the productivity gains we had due to automation, if we never get to enjoy the benefits of that ? Every parent wants their child to have a better life than them, better life to most means more opportunities. More opportunities to do what exactly ? More opportunities to work more hours ? I understand the economy does not quite work like that, but I still think it is something we should strive for.

kwere 4y ago
the economy work well for its stakeholders, its just that the average joe & jane arent the controlling/beneficiary stakeholders, outside that being enough skilled to not be easily replaced
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

RecycledEle 4y ago

[flagged]

ttymck 4y ago

Go ahead.

RickJWagner 4y ago

I'm generally optimistic about things, and have 3 great kids (around college age) and see good things from them and their friends. But then I visit reddit, and I despair. Or my wife comes back from substitute teaching at the junior high or high school and tells me what she saw. It's definitely a mixed bag.