15 ms·

My long goodbye to Windows XP (2022)

• thriftwy 4y ago
  None of Microsoft's operating systems were as good as Windows XP and at least one (8) was a complete disaster, the shock waves from that catastrophe still rumbling around. By failing to reproduce that success, Microsoft has ceded most of the moral market share to Apple. Though, as a Linux user, every time I see a Mac desktop I can't resist noticing how often would it lock up and display that rotating "busy" mouse cursor in place of what the proud Mac owner actually wanted to do at that moment.
  • 12345hn6789 4y ago
    I've been working professionally using a Mac for 4ish years now. Can count on a single hand the amount of times the cursor is stuck spinning / loading. I have had my fair share of crashes though.
  • capableweb 4y ago
    95 was trash, 98 was gold. XP was great, Vista was trash. 7 was great, 8 was trash. 10 was gold, 11 is trash. Seems Microsoft has to squeeze in at least one bad version between good ones. But never has a new Windows version been made available where people didn't initially hate them at first, XP, 7, and 10 included. It's not until the version after gets released when people really start appreciating what once was.
    • thriftwy 4y ago
      You have missed Windows ME between XP and 98, which was so awful people don't remember it anymore. For a revolutionary product, Windows 95 wasn't that bad.
      • capableweb 4y ago
        It wasn't supposed to be an extensive list, plenty of versions are missing, like NT 4 and well, every single version before 95 :)
      • Wowfunhappy 4y ago
        I've heard the pattern phrased: 95 Good, 98 Bad, 98 SE Good, ME Bad, XP Good, Vista Bad, 7 Good, 8 Bad, 10 Good. Counting 98 SE as a separate release does seem like cherry-picking in order to make the pattern work. Then again, you could also say the cycle started with Windows 98 (putting the whole of that release into the good pile), and you'd still have a remarkably consistent pattern across two decades and seven versions of Windows. Honestly makes you wonder if there's some deeper cause related to Microsoft's organizational structure or something.
        • p1necone 4y ago
          And then there's 11 which doesn't really feel like a new version at all to me. I use 10 at work and 11 at home and after changing the taskbar settings to put the start button back on the left I don't even notice switching.
          • seiferteric 4y ago
            For all the rightful hate 11 gets for ads and tracking crap, once you turn it off it feels... fine. I even don't mind the UI look and really like the new window management, but I don't use windows for anything serious anymore, only gaming so maybe there are other issues.
            • wkat4242 4y ago
              You can't turn off the tracking crap, this is really the biggest problem IMO. Same here by the way, I don't use it for anything but gaming and work for the tracking reason.
          • Dalewyn 4y ago
            >And then there's 11 which doesn't really feel like a new version at all to me. That's because it isn't, Windows 10 and 11 both identify internally as NT10.0. For some context: Windows Vista, 7, 8, and 8.1 identified as NT6.0, 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 respectively; Windows 2000 and XP identified as NT5.0 and 5.1 respectively.
        • 4y ago
      • lawgimenez 4y ago
        There’s also Windows 2000, which I think was the worst of all.
        • thriftwy 4y ago
          It was a server and workstation OS not really suited for consumer desktop.
          • zabzonk 4y ago
            i used it as my daily driver on a sony laptop - worked like a charm.
          • Mike_12345 4y ago
            It was the first stable Windows OS that could run all the latest games and desktop applications without constantly crashing or needing a periodic reinstall. It was their best desktop OS at the time. XP was just 2000 with an ugly default theme and added bloat.
        • mat_epice 4y ago
          Oh wow, I feel exactly the opposite. Windows 2000 was no-nonsense, but all good stuff. The good bones that Windows XP got came straight from Win2k. The only real problem it had was a narrower hardware compatibility profile, but it still wasn’t that bad.
        • agent86 4y ago
          I would personally argue that Windows 2000 wasn't bad, it was just painful in the beginning. It was the transition point from the 9x kernel/setup to the NT kernel/setup and some manufacturers navigated that change better than others in the beginning.
        • zabzonk 4y ago
          it was brilliant - fast and very stable.
        • deleted 4y ago
          [deleted]
      • asciimov 4y ago
        I had the one PC in that era that WinME was smooth sailing on. It was a Packard Bell with a 200mhz Pentium 1 (96 mb of ram at the time, i think). For whatever reason, and combination of hardware, ME had no issues running. I had less blue screens on it, and overall found it to be enjoyable and much more stable than 98 and 95c was on that machine.
      • Osiris 4y ago
        ME was all the features that eventually went into XP but still based on the Windows 98 kernel instead of NT. What made XP great was how reliable it was compared to previous Windows versions.
      • masswerk 4y ago
        Some things about Win95 are lost to nostalgia, as well. Like broken drivers, esp. in concert with up-to-date office, which came with issues of its own, like broken export formats. (It took more than a year for serious support for Postscript printers, etc.) Win95 became only somewhat functional with Windows 95B. (This one, however, started the IE integration.)
        • wkat4242 4y ago
          And broken USB support. Even with OSR3 it didn't quite work with many devices.
    • david2ndaccount 4y ago
      10 was only good in comparison to the versions next to it, it has a lot of the problems like intrusive telemetry and bad UI that plague newer windows.
    • CaptainNegative 4y ago
      What do you dislike about 95?
      • FartyMcFarter 4y ago
        It was really unstable. Some people claim this was mostly due to bad 3rd party drivers and not the OS itself. But even if that's true, from the user perspective it's very hard to tell the difference.
    • Dalewyn 4y ago
      >11 is trash. 11 has all the same problems 10 has, but brings many significant improvements both in the backend and frontend. Hardly trash. >never has a new Windows version been made available where people didn't initially hate them at first Windows 95 and 98 were both received to applause and fanfare, 95's stellar reception in particular is probably still unmatched to this day.
      • snozolli 4y ago
        95's stellar reception in particular is probably still unmatched to this day. The only shift in user experience that I can equate it to is maybe the jump from candy bar and flip phones to the iPhone and Android. In addition to the UI, it brought real multitasking to a consumer OS.
      • rkagerer 4y ago
        Windows 11 cranked up the [user-unwanted] telemetry, mandated TPM 2.0, and eliminated hardware support for certain CPU's for no other reason than 'because security' (overridable with a registry hack at least for the moment).
    • kivlad 4y ago
      Instability aside, Windows 98 marked the point where Internet Explorer leeched itself into the operating system to the point of no return (only to be finally reversed in the past year). The complaints of social media apps being "preinstalled" with Windows 11 seem to echo the channel bar, Active Desktop and everything else that arrived with IE4. I believe that the notion that Windows 98 was good came when IE5 were released and pulled back on some of those integrations, which happened to coincide with the timing of 98 Second Edition. In any case it was by no means great, but it was good enough.
    • bakugo 4y ago
      > 10 was gold, 11 is trash If you think 10 is "gold" and 11 is "trash" I assume you're suffering from some sort of stockholm syndrome from using 10 too long and haven't actually tried 11 yet because it's just a reskinned 10 (and visually, it looks a lot better).
      • dragonwriter 4y ago
        > I assume you’re suffering from some sort of Stockholm syndrome Periodic reminder that “Stockholm Syndrome” was a complete fabrication based on no clinical evidence invented on the spot to discredit an ex-hostage who was making legitimate criticism of an unnecessarily violent police intervention by one of the architects of that intervention, because they had no rational defense. Its invocations in debates are also typically as an attempt at a thought-terminating trope to evoke an emotional response that covers the lack of actual argument, which fits the history of the term well.
      • snozolli 4y ago
        haven't actually tried 11 yet because it's just a reskinned 10 (and visually, it looks a lot better). I've been on 11 since it was released and I find it to be objectively a worse experience. On Win 10, I could game on one screen and stream a video in a browser on the other. On Win 11, I get stuttering on the streamed video. It's also failed to update twice now. I invested hours into debugging the issue the first time. This time it's been days and I'm about to just do a fresh Win 10 install over this nightmare.
        • bakugo 4y ago
          > It's also failed to update twice now. I invested hours into debugging the issue the first time. This time it's been days and I'm about to just do a fresh Win 10 install over this nightmare. My current 11 install has never failed to update, but I have experienced various update failures before on 10. This sort of issue is present in both versions, it's just random whether you'll experience it or not, and I wouldn't be surprised if the stuttering issue is just some random driver incompatibility too.
    • stuartq 4y ago
      I don't think that's true. Vista was so hated, that 7 was pretty much universally heralded as a big improvement, even if half of that was the ecosystem getting used to the new driver model introduced by Vista. And as others have observed, 2000 was an immediate hit with everyone who tried it.
  • ptero 4y ago
    For me, the big change came with Windows 2000. It had user benefits from 9x in a stable package. That was the first version that I can play games on and also leave it running for months, just like a Linux box.
    • Wowfunhappy 4y ago
      Curious if you'd ever used a version of Windows NT prior to 2000? Since 2000 was part of the NT line, it might not be a fair comparison.
      • zabzonk 4y ago
        i used several versions of nt prior to 2k - 2k was better than those in every respect.
      • bombcar 4y ago
        Windows NT before 2000 had problems with games and such, 2000 worked well because most games were now working to target XP ( and 2k had better compatibility with 98 anyway).
        • Dalewyn 4y ago
          Windows NT 4.0's problems with gaming have everything to do with only supporting DirectX up to version 3.0a. Yes, you read that right: DirectX 3.0a. Windows 2000 by contrast supported DirectX all the way through DirectX 9.0c, same as Windows XP, 98, and ME. This is why Windows 2000 could run games properly.
      • jackvalentine 4y ago
        Gaming on NT had a lot of compatibility issues and I don’t think MS ever released officially some of the Direct3D updates for NT.
      • ptero 4y ago
        I did not use NT at home, but I occasionally used it at school. For me at that time, the ability to play games had been as strong a requirement as the ability to be stable and run word processing, email clients and VC++. So I would use Win95 and curse its (in)stability and reboot several times per day, but not switch to NT. Also, NT cost an arm and a leg for a student. Win2k was a huge improvement in every respect. My 2c.
  • brk 4y ago
    I’ve been using MacOS as my daily desktop for over a decade, switching from Linux. Seeing the busy cursor is so rare I can’t recall the last time. And I have tons of things open all the time.
    • masswerk 4y ago
      Maybe it's related to some cloud service? (However, MS Word used to give you a fair amount of exposure to the beach ball. But I'm not familiar with any of the later versions.)
  • lmm 4y ago
    > None of Microsoft's operating systems were as good as Windows XP Huh? XP added nothing to 2000 except useless bling.
    • Dwedit 4y ago
      Direct3D 9.0c
      • wkat4242 4y ago
        It was also supported on Win2k. For D3D 10 you have a point though.
        • IntelMiner 4y ago
          DirectX 10 required Vista I remember being gifted Shattered Horizon (a DX10 launch title) and thinking "it really doesn't look that great" Halo 2 for Vista also required DX10 even though the original Xbox was hardware DX 8.1 only
    • sanitycheck 4y ago
      My thoughts exactly! Except I wouldn't call it bling, I'd call it a hideous Fisher Price aesthetic. I stuck with 2000 as long as I could before gaming (and maybe.. a certain version of Visual Studio?) eventually forced a switch to XP (with the "classic" theme).
    • timbit42 4y ago
      The only XP feature I miss in 2000 is the ability to align icons to a grid.
  • marcodiego 4y ago
    Most people I know that have some experience say that w2k was the best one ms ever released.
  • NotYourLawyer 4y ago
    Windows 7 was legitimately good. Everything since has been a step in the wrong direction.
  • jbm 4y ago
    This is not even a radical viewpoint, which is why the downvotes seem irrational. I have seen "normies" pontificating on how Windows XP was perfect for them and how they have seen no benefit going forward. If I am being maximally charitable, the benefits that come afterwards are drivers, gaming-related (DirectX) or security-related (which is not a user-facing feature). All of them are nice, but not at the cost that the end user perceives; a slow, painful experience, with an OS that crashes randomly and has weird inconsistencies everywhere. I have mostly stuck to Ubuntu for desktops (since 8.04) and MacOS for laptops (since Snow Leopard). (Unrelated, I also notice the busy cursor, which is why I went back to Ubuntu once I was able to get a desktop)
    • Brendinooo 4y ago
      My daily driver computing timeline is something like Win3.1, 95, 98, ME, XP, OSX 10.4-10.11, then some combo of Ubuntu/Pop_OS. I think Windows peaked with XP and macOS with Snow Leopard, with the caveats that Spotlight-like searching in both was primitive/nonexistent at that time and would have been a great improvement, and XP didn't have virtual desktops. That 2001-2006 era featured systems that had learned a bunch of lessons from 10-20 years of mainstream GUI computing, but hadn't been consumed by feature bloat and a bunch of Internet connectivity and convergence stuff that I'm not interested in. XP's design was apparently polarizing but I loved it. I was in a modding phase at that point and loved making my own themes.
  • munchler 4y ago
    What is a "moral market share"? Is that like the market share that you wish something had, instead of the market share it actually has?
• lostgame 4y ago
  I still use XP 90% of the time when I just need a quick VM to run some odd Windows utility or other. It's lightweight, it's not filled with the intrusive privacy issues of 10 or 11, and a surprising amount of software is still compatible.
  • wrp 4y ago
    Same. I have WinXP on VirtualBox for all my Windows work. I do have a Win7 image on hand, but I've only had to use it twice over the past several years.
• jimbobimbo 4y ago
  "My belief is that computer security is highly overrated. [...] This can actually be quantifiable. [...] In 2021 Project Zero registered 10 0-days that concerned Windows. [...] None affected Windows XP." Clever! Security by running an OS which none of the exploit authors are targeting anymore.
  • nine_k 4y ago
    Are all the old vulnerabilities patched up adequately? Are all old expoloits defeated?
    • evmar 4y ago
      They are running a Chrome from 2016, so they are vulnerable to ~every exploit found in Chrome since then.
      • nine_k 4y ago
        Won't a modern version of Chromium build for XP, with some tweaking?
        • hippich 4y ago
          From my experience, there is a lot of software that will not build for platform older than 7/2008 due to missing APIs. Visual studio stopped support for xp compilation awhile ago. You still can use clang or such for simple programs today, but chromium is probably too complicated to port at this point.
          • jamesfinlayson 4y ago
            I thought I saw it in Visual Studio 2019 but I'm misremembering - Visual Studio 2017 was the last to support building for Windows XP by the looks of it.
          • planede 4y ago
            Chromium already builds with clang + libc++ on every platform, including Windows.
• longcat 4y ago
  Windows XP on it's own, behind Windows Firewall and a router firewall not doing anything too controversial may be fine. Where the risks become higher is when you have many machines across the network. That one host would lower the overall security of everything else around limiting the ability to disable weak protocols. Backwards compatibility with Windows/AD has always caused issues with Active Directory becoming such a juicy target in the way system-to-systems interacted.
• parker_mountain 4y ago
  >My belief is that computer security is highly overrated. With a decent firewall, which every router has these days, only your own activity can expose you to attack from hostile actors. All internet browsers also help you by warning when you are about to do something stupid like executing code from a remote source. This is a ridiculous thing to say. The reason that there are so few misleading ads, so few zero days being exploited, and in general a much less tricky landscape today is because the unyielding and unrelenting efforts of people improving computer security.
  • longcat 4y ago
    Plus a lot of vulnerabilities in Windows 10 or 11 also exist in Windows XP but they're no longer mentioned.
    • wkat4242 4y ago
      Good point, security researchers often simply don't mention obsolete versions in security bulletins.
  • bakugo 4y ago
    > The reason that there are so few misleading ads I can open youtube on my phone right now and find an ad saying "everyone who clicks here will get $1000", misleading ads are still everywhere even if they might not be malware. And I doubt ads exploiting browser 0-days were actually that common back in the day, ads in general weren't nearly as common.
    • parker_mountain 4y ago
      I suppose "so few" is relative. While they still exist, it's nothing like 10 years ago.
• Jerrrry 4y ago
  I actually RTFA and was thinking, "this dude should upgrade and run Win7 like me," - and was pleasantly surprised to find he is. The only issue I've had was a few months ago Google Chrome now gives a small nag-bar on startup - supposedly dismissisable with a -flag, but the flag itself is either no longer functioning for some smirk sanctimonious reason, or more likely, hilariously not tested, and has since ironically regressed. The only gripe from XP->Vista->7 is the respective mediocre, to amazing, to abysmal local search functionality. Regarding 0-days: back when I had virtual valuables and wasn't a complete random, I had been specifically targeted and smitten with a TeamViewer 0-day. But, like the author notes, that would had happened regardless of my subscription to any one of the myriad of dubious AV products of the era. win7, with its incredible native and specific backward compatibility mode, supports more apps than any other virtual ecosystem. 25+ years of great software - some of which runs smoother than their great descendent counterpart. Shame to not at least have a box sitting around for the occasional sporadic encounter with an inane, archaic file type, needing to be fandangled into a newer format.
  • amatecha 4y ago
    Steam just announced[0] their client will no longer work on Windows 7 come Jan 1st 2024. I figured this would happen as soon as I noticed they adopted Chromium Embedded Framework, guaranteeing that Google's supported OSes become Steam's supported OSes. I'm not exactly sure how I'm supposed to play Steam games from 2004 (or whatever) on the OS they were designed for, when Steam won't even run on that OS anymore. I guess I can hope that compatibility layers work well enough in newer Windows versions? Just kidding, my Windows gaming PC will now be a Linux gaming PC :) [0] https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4784-4F2B-1321-800A https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4784-4F2B-1321-80...
    • shortrounddev 4y ago
      There's a steam CLI you can use to download the games without an interface
      • amatecha 4y ago
• refracture 4y ago
  Move from one EOL OS to another. You do you, you’ll be fine until you aren’t.. I feel bad for anyone you convince that this is okay.
  • detuur 4y ago
    I wonder if he would've been happy running ReactOS or something like Haiku or SerenityOS. It seems that the major reason why XP worked for him was how dead simple it was. The fact is that there's no modern "simple" OS. I know. I've looked. The point-and-click simplicity of the 90s is quite plainly no longer out there. Even macOS, championed for its supposed simplicity, has grown a large amount of extraneous features and an outright hostility to those who try to use it in a nonstandard way. Coming to think of it, it wouldn't even matter. All of the OSes I've suggested struggle with the same issue as WinXP, which is that there's no modern browser support. SerenityOS seems to be the only one which is making any actual strides to fixing that with its Ladybug browser (which theoretically could be ported to the other OSes), but even that is a work-in-progress.
    • refracture 4y ago
      But at the end of the days they're just not good enough reasons. This author doesn't believe that security is important because their crypto currency hasn't been stolen yet. I don't know how one could possibly do a better job of conveying that they don't care and are just coming up with nonsense reasons to justify their bad computing habits. They're free to do whatever they want, just like us all.. but I still cringe at the idea that somebody who doesn't know better could read this article and think running Windows 7 now is a good idea.
• StimDeck 4y ago
  It’s my humble opinion that a setup like this is only “not hacked” from a combination of dumb luck and low value. Maybe that’s enough for most people. IDK No disrespect, if I was still a windows user I would be on win7 too, however I can’t help but think about how naive this was with regard to security while I read it. I personally don’t know how XP could make a person more productive, but I really can’t understand throwing all caution to the wind and doing mental gymnastics to rationalize it. I admit it’s possible that being on XP has some obscurity benefit, just like if you only used DOS. Having a firewall is de rigueur as noted in TFA, but far from foolproof. No single layer of security is airtight. Probably the OP has heard of defense in depth, maybe not. Security of any system is porous. It’s like layers of Swiss cheese and so long as all the holes don’t line up, you don’t get owned. Being that windows exploits often affect versions all the way back to 3.11, XP might be more holes than cheese.
• jarebear6expepj 4y ago
  This brings back memories of my very favorite Windows 98SE.
  • timbit42 4y ago
    Windows 98SE was so buggy that I switched to Windows NT4 which was much more stable.
• branon 4y ago
  This is not a sensible or technically sound thing to do. It is purely irrational. Win7 is already stuck on Chrome 110/111(?). You are not gaining much by doing this, and are assuming significant risk. Even if specific portions can be quantified away, it's the unknown unknowns that should scare you. Try a Linux distro again maybe? With some non-default themes and Wine, it really should make a better WinXP than WinXP. Or at least use something like https://github.com/kirb/LegacyUpdate https://github.com/kirb/LegacyUpdate or the pirated ISOs that get updates from the Windows Embedded POSReady channel -- Win7 POSReady is supported until late 2024, and XP was until 2019. There are safe ways to do this, but I worry the author may not be aware of them.
  • causality0 4y ago
    "We're going to write security updates for this OS but we won't give them to you" is such psychopathic behavior.
    • zamadatix 4y ago
      The extended update programs are/were only available for corporate users as it's a pay-to-subsidize-availability program that costs more per year than the original OS license. While you may disagree if that's good or not jumping straight to labeling it psychopathic behavior seems more like an argument which came from a conclusion than the other way around.
    • skissane 4y ago
      Writing security updates costs money-and as the software gets older, the cost generally goes up too. Is it wrong for them to decide, after a reasonable period, to stop spending that money on outdated versions? What happens then when a small subset of customers says “we need those updates so much, we’ll pay extra for them?” Is it wrong to take their money and spend it on writing the updates they request, with a reasonable margin on top? But once you are selling updates to that small subset of customers, if you start giving the very same updates away for free to everyone else, those customers are going to ask for their money back. I don’t see any “psychopathy” here, just rational business decisions. This doesn’t just happen for operating systems. Many vendors of on-promise proprietary software do the same-databases, middleware, ERP suites, etc-most of them have a special program for customers who want to stay on really old versions, in which they pay extra $$$ for updates compared to customers willing to move to a more current one. If you accept proprietary software as ethical, I can’t see how this practice can reasonably be accused of being unethical.
• mixmastamyk 4y ago
  Loved XP once the Fischer Price theme was turned off. Loved the now small footprint. But, it's hard to give up the real terminal, now that you've used it, isn't it? Modern Firefox, Python, tons of software just doesn't support it any longer. A shame really. I'd love a modern Windows 2000. ReactOS not quite there yet.
• rwaksmunski 4y ago
  I guess his next stop is Windows 10 LTSC.
• jollyllama 4y ago
  Many times have I lost hours, days, or functionality that was never regained to an update/"upgrade." Never have I had my personal computer owned by some exploit that resulted in data loss/breach. Thus, undesired upgrades are a greater risk for personal computing than security. Simple as.
  • bakugo 4y ago
    Corporations like Microsoft have successfully hammered this idea into people's heads that the evil hacker known as Anonymous will hack into your fridge and make it explode and burn your house down if you forget to update it for two weeks. Almost nobody who makes a big deal out of this has ever actually been affected by it, they're just parroting what they're told.
    • samplatt 4y ago
      >Almost nobody who makes a big deal out of this has ever actually been affected by it, they're just parroting what they're told. Either that or they're paid to come and clean up the mess after a company has been hacked due to one or two random servers not being updated in the last few years.
      • bakugo 4y ago
        Servers (especially corporate ones) are an entirely different matter. This post is specifically about personal devices that probably aren't running any server software and are almost definitely behind a firewall.
    • Aeolun 4y ago
      I mean, I used to say that updating was important when updates were painless and worked. Now that we've successfully convinced everyone to always update, corporations use it to push fresh malware/ads.
      • dizhn 4y ago
        Not only that they made updates they really really want to make automatic and compulsory.
• asddubs 4y ago
  I do still like the 95/98/XP paradigm best in terms of, start button, non-grouped buttons for the different windows, and some quick launch icons. luckily because I run linux I can have my pick of the litter, cinnamon, MATE, even KDE with some heavy configuring will do it. I wonder what the author didn't like about linux, seems like it's perfect for someone who's stuck in the past like me, if it's not a software compat problem (which from the sound of the article it isn't)
  • interfixus 4y ago
    Exactly! I have run this setup forever; for years and years in Xfce, these days in KDE. Recently I found a couple of screenshots, 1996 and 97, from my Windows days. I was surprised - and maybe slightly concerned - to see how precisely they matched my current layout, right down to ridiculous details. Way back then, I needed a third party utility tweak the clock in the lower right corner to my liking. These days the tweaking is integral, but damn it, the clock looks the same.
• rafark 4y ago
  I no longer use windows, but I just came to say Windows 8 is the best windows.
  • wkat4242 4y ago
    Steve Ballmer? Is that you?
    • rafark 4y ago
      I’m just a developer, developer, developer.
  • throwaway742 4y ago
    10/10
    • timbit42 4y ago
      8/10
• masswerk 4y ago
  I can feel this. My main work computer was/is a late 2008 MacPro, running OS X 10.9.5 (the latest MacOS you can run officially on this). After one and half years, I've still not transitioned fully to a shiny, yellow M1 iMac standing next to it. The usability and productivity on the MacPro, its OS and the apps on it are much better, and, on top of it, it's all software that I own. The real dealbreaker is evergreen browsers and websites updating from whatever is available on Github, making up-to-date browsers a requirement. The newest browser you can run on this is Firefox 78.15.0esr, which, funny enough, tells you that it's up to date. I also second that security by out-of-date obscurity may be a concept. (The vectors available just don't scale, if you're not a target prominent enough to make this a sensible investment. Moreover, old hardware gives you things like ECC memory, which is also immune to rowhammer attacks, as it's slow and not that tightly integrated. Having no privileged network connections to any cloud services may help, as well.) (However, I'm writing this on a rather fresh Apple Silicon MBA, because, well, the Web…)
  • themodelplumber 4y ago
    > The newest browser you can run on this is Firefox 78.15.0esr This made me wonder if there are still working dev kits/tools with browser components available in such a way as to provide a fairly simple pathway from basic dev skills (or just "web browser example" code) --> up-to-date browser engine, running on 10.9.5? Thinking of somewhat more obscure dev tools too, e.g. PureBasic, etc.
    • masswerk 4y ago
      This would have been a viable path, when WebKit was still "a thing" and enjoyed some integration. I guess, with WebKit2, things became more complicated and resource heavy. Given the rapid development cycles and feature releases, I doubt an integrated web-view would be able to keep up, nowadays. Esp., if nothing short of 100% compatibility to current Chrome will do. (That said, Firefox 78.15.0esr works still fine in most cases, but I doubt that this will be the case much longer, mostly because of CSS feature adoption.)
      • 4y ago
• hestefisk 4y ago
  If I could, I’d still be running Windows NT 4.0 just for the simplicity and GUI. It was the best OS to come out if Redmond. I wish they had stuck with their “workstation” strategy, but unfortunately not.
  • hestefisk 4y ago
    I long for the white on dark blue boot screen. So stylish!
  • kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    You can enable classic mode up to Win 7. Mostly the same experience.
    • hestefisk 4y ago
      You don’t get the white on blue boot screen, unfortunately.
• distantsounds 4y ago
  OP spent next to no time exploring Linux, which is a shame. running modern Debian on a Core 2 Duo is barely a better option than running a modern version of Windows. Alpine would likely run far better.
• aheilbut 4y ago
  Windows 2000 was better
• mistyvales 4y ago
  Ha, I just built a very cheap XP rig to play old games on a native machine. Hope none of them require an internet connection..
• dehrmann 4y ago
  > But I store some crypto currency on my computer and I make crypto transactions from time to time. If my computer had been compromised by an invisible attacker I figure that attacker would have had an interest in crypto assets. Well that's an interesting idea for detecting certain classes of hackers.
  • wkat4242 4y ago
    But those classes only. The author is much more likely to be targeted by automated botnets than a dedicated attacker who will actually manually look at his machine.
• highspeedbus 4y ago
  A giant middle finger to the planned obsolescence frenzy, and also absolutely impractical for anyone.
• graycat 4y ago
  I have a Windows 7 Professional system with my startup's software in some boxes and, since now my office is functional enough, am about to get that system powered up and running again. So, here's a piece of information relevant to security and versions of Windows, I'd like to give exact and really clear references instead of working just from memory, but for such references just now I'd have to do a lot of digging. From memory, I discovered that one of the security updates to Windows 7 Professional, as I recall, the last one, was the same as for a version of Windows Server. So I guess: Since that version of Windows Server was intended for some of the most serious business computing on the planet, that security update should be pretty good, maybe good enough to be pretty good now! I've been intending to use Windows 7 Professional as my server for my startup, but ... I'm also considering some version of Windows Server. I do notice that it appears that the versions of Windows Server go much longer, years longer, before "end of life" or "end of support" than the versions of Windows not Windows Server. So, I'm considering getting a version of Windows Server 2019. I've done the shopping and am intending to buy. Also I'm thinking of using my computer with Windows 7 Professional as my general purpose and software development computer (it is where I wrote the 100,000 lines of code for my startup) and plug together a new computer for the server for the Web site, etc. That computer would run Windows Server 2019. I would like to know more about Windows Server, e.g., version 2019, as in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35212144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35212144
  • ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    I don't know what your startup's software does, but I already don't want to use it.
    • graycat 4y ago
      And your reason(s)?
• protocolture 4y ago
  Weird. The author obviously likes security updates. He isnt running zero day windows xp (which is a hoot to expose to the internet btw) he is running fully patched windows xp. The issue he says is productivity. With maybe some amount of trying to squeeze more time out of old computers. I can empathise with the first point but not the second. Productivity isnt a function of just the OS, its also hardware and user skill related. I feel like he could be just as productive on either flavour of 22H2 as Windows 7.
• pentagrama 4y ago
  I'm the only one that feels a weird mix of advance technical ability but also technical naeivity? I loved reading this. It remembered me when I installed Ubuntu on my mom's 2009 laptop because Windows 10 was unbearable slow, and it worked much better. Also the title remembered me the movie The Long Goodbye, what a movie, love Altman.
• superkuh 4y ago
  >I am not entirely sure why some websites do not work properly in Mypal browser. But a growing number is not. The problem is always content loading, or rather a failure to load all or parts of a website's content. My best guess is that the JavaScript code in these malfunctioning homepages are too modern and that the JavaScript engine in Mypal browser is somehow limited in how it interprets the code. That is because MyPal is a fork of Pale Moon which forked from Firefox back when Firefox was still Firefox (before removing extension user freedoms, adopting Chrome's extension over it's own, and the heavy ram-bloat of multi-process, etc). Pale Moon only implemented "web components" last week. Sites that use web components features like custom html elements (defined by javascript) would just be blank spaces. I wish Pale Moon hadn't added support but it should filter back in to MyPal eventually.
• throwaway742 4y ago
  I miss XP sometimes too, but this is madness.
• 1970-01-01 4y ago
  If you're happy living with EOS Windows, give Windows Delta a try: https://xpdelta.weebly.com/ https://xpdelta.weebly.com/
  • brnt 4y ago
    Oh man, the Shared Network wizard screenshot brought back some memories! Also the "Extras Pack" design. I pretty much forgot about that age.
• jacooper 4y ago
  Reading this article, I feel the old age holding the author from adapting to new systems, I just end up in the mindset of I never ever want to be this person.
  • hulitu 4y ago
    After some time you become tired of having to chase GUI elements which were hidden behind ribbons, chasing hidden scrollbars, fighting with various search dialogues or tabs on the titlebar when you want to move the window on another monitor, etc
  • antisthenes 4y ago
    Adapting to ever-changing systems that are reduced in functionality and remove control for you just means you're a hamster in a spinning wheel, mindlessly going after the latest trend. I hope to never ever be that person, but you do you.
• locusofself 4y ago
  For quite a long while I feel like my operating system has been Chrome and VS Code, maybe a few other things. I work on both Windows and mac, and forget for extended periods of time what computer I'm even using.
  • selfhoster11 4y ago
    That’s a fair point, and to some extent I think it’s true - especially in modern networked environments. Short of booting directly into the browser, you’ll still need some minimal UI, at least for switching between VS Code and your browser of choice. That’s the part where the modern OS should not get in the way, but often does.
• nurettin 4y ago
  > None of my crypto currency has disappeared Using crypto as a canary for hacker intrusions, brilliant!
• system2 4y ago
  Use windows 95. It would fly on that computer of the OP. These types of post are the same as the instagram clout chasing teenager's post but in tech world. Weird.
• birdyrooster 4y ago
  What do people do with oscilloscopes that run windows xp? Does it even matter?
  • estebank 4y ago
    They don't run latest Office or Firefox on them.
• AdeptusAquinas 4y ago
  Someone's bot farm just lost a member
• issung 4y ago
  I maintain that XP had the best UI of all Windows, but you (at least me) can't stick with it, I need the latest updates in order to use the latest software and get my work done.
• tomatodevice 4y ago
  > The truth is I have never been hacked once in the eight years I have had this computer. And not since 2008 or 2009 with the one I had before. How can you be that sure and are you confident to connect this computer to any random public network? That's just a demonstration of ignorance.
  • dewey 4y ago
    You should also quote the rest of the paragraph then: > Maybe I have been hacked but simply have not noticed. That is also a possibility. But I store some crypto currency on my computer and I make crypto transactions from time to time. If my computer had been compromised by an invisible attacker I figure that attacker would have had an interest in crypto assets.
• walterbell 4y ago
  > It is also possible to piggyback on Microsoft’s extended enterprise support to receive security patches at least until next year. Is this an option for individuals?
  • rkagerer 4y ago
    0patch is an additional tool that is worth checking out. Their engineers reverse engineer Windows patches and backport certain ones to out-of-support OS's.
• themodelplumber 4y ago
  Phew, relatable. I get this kind of well-rooted feeling with my Linuxes all the time. Just this year I moved my T420 from a phenomenal Xubuntu 18.04 install that was _just_ great, to PCLOS. I'm happy with the result after a lot of work, but I know there are still a ton of things that aren't what they should be. Hundreds of keyboard shortcuts yet to migrate, hundreds of little add-ons skipped, like "did I grab whatever the equivalent of gimp-addons is, since I couldn't use apt-clone", hundreds of little scripts un-integrated from my desktop, including genmon scripts that do valuable things, which don't even have an equivalent for porting to KDE. Before that it was...Ubuntu Netbook Edition (UNE). Tiny screen but wow it worked amazingly well on my Linux-reseller MSI Wind Netbook. I could hardly bear the upgrades away from that, to different distros, since everything worked super well. It's hard to feel torn between such UserLand concerns (my stuff is how I like it!) and regular ol' userland concerns (my software does what I need, with the following somewhat clever workarounds). > Exactly why even very light-weight Linux versions like Lubuntu feels slow on my computers I do not know. Maybe they lack the drivers for hardware optimization compared to Windows. I remember this EXACT feeling coming from Windows XP, lol. I never did figure out what the difference was, but it definitely went away for me starting around Windows 8 IIRC. Today I can't discern a difference except that occasionally it seems like Linux is faster by default. It also felt incredibly unjust back then, to a lot of us happy Creative Labs users, to migrate to Linux and learn that our slick cards & low latency didn't work that way anymore, or at all. Fun read! Thanks for sharing it.
• Hackbraten 4y ago
  The author keeps talking about 0-days but fails to mention the myriad of known kernel-level vulnerabilities that are simply left unpatched in older OSes.
• bullen 4y ago
  There is no bigger security risk with using old OS over time as hackers stop focusing on the old stuff because the attack surface is reduced simply by the number of victims being so low. As for why the mouse is fast in Windows the interrupts are handled by the kernel in a very special way to perform almost mind reading levels of speed even over the bloated USB stack. I suspect it to be a nightmare to maintain as USB upgrades happen but who knows. I used Windows 7 until my SSD corrupted pretty much 5 years on the day after I installed it on the 400GB Intel drive. It started with games crashing and then after one such crash (black screen, not blue screen) it just refused to boot because some important file was unreadable. Choosing your SSD will be the most important choice you make in the future, as I said previously I have 2x Windows 7 and 2x linux machines on older drives that have lasted 10+ years 24/7. So something is wrong with modern SSDs, no doubt about it. About sites deprecating browsers, you might be more lucky with really old browsers now a days. My bank refused to work on a 3 months old Firefox, but a 6 year old Firefox (installed to run Java Applets which BTW where WAAAAY better than .js + WASM, and no; they where not insecure like all the naysayers pretend) ran fine with some layout glitches.
  • LightHugger 4y ago
    a lot of samsung drives have firmware self-destruct degradation bugs lately for some reason, so absolutely avoid those. People miss how much of a security risk using w10/11 is because microsoft is constantly pushing updates that break your install like an xp era virus used to, or just straight up doing malicious things adware and other malware used to do. these are not "security minded" operating systems. You are not "better" for using win10 in terms of security.
    • rejectfinite 4y ago
      Compared to 7 yes you are
  • arnaudsm 4y ago
    Early SSDs had poor reliability, but modern ones seem to be lasting longer than HDDs according to this BlackBlaze report : https://www.backblaze.com/blog/ssd-drive-stats-mid-2022-review/ https://www.backblaze.com/blog/ssd-drive-stats-mid-2022-revi...
• rkagerer 4y ago
  My dirty little secret is that I like Windows XP. I know it inside out and it maximizes my productivity while sitting at the computer. I wish our industry would realize you don't need to move everyone's cheese around and slap on new lipstick every few years. Each time you do it throws away all the muscle memory your users have built up. Sometimes I lament that pixels are so cheap to repaint. Imagine if someone reorganized where you keep your dishes on a regular basis.
• lionkor 4y ago
  Ubuntu has always been this weird OS for me. Its not free enough or fast enough to be linux, it feels like a knockoff of something, but i cant put my finger on it. Their DE is just such a horrible POS. I had one extension/addon (?), which, due to some JS problem (all those extensions/addons are written in js), was slowly, over hours, hogging more ram, until eventually OOMimg the entire DE. Sure, this is just a one-off bug, but please just read that to yourself out loud. Addons are JS. They can OOM the machine. Their interface runs over so many different abstractions that there is a whole web browser in there. So yes, the author may have had a horribly slow experience with Ubuntu, and I believe that. Try LXDE or LXQt or MATE or anything a little more lightweight, and you may have a very different experience.
  • barbs 4y ago
    I believe they tried Lubuntu, which uses LXDE and in my experience was almost too fast so I'm curious as to why the author found it slow.
    • lionkor 4y ago
      It could be misconfigured mouse acceleration, that can feel really sluggish
  • codedokode 4y ago
    There is no browser, only JS interpreter. I think that addons should not be downloadable, user should write them themselves and if there are bugs because of it, it's only user's fault.
  • jbstack 4y ago
    It seems strange to blame a distribution for a problem you had with a DE. Just change the DE. Or download one of the many Ubuntu flavours which has your preferred DE preinstalled.
    • detuur 4y ago
      Worse, they had a problem with a third-party add-on they installed. An add-on that likely would've been either two orders of magnitude more complex or straight-up impossible on Windows or macOS. I've had my fair share of OOMs and crashes because of shell customization on Windows and they were all far harder to deal with.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• ecef9-8c0f-4374 4y ago
  You have to go green. Think of the environment. Produce less trash. Refurbish. Recycle. Reuse.
• barbs 4y ago
  Wasn't there a Linux distro that was trying to look and feel almost exactly like Windows XP? I'm sure it's not perfect but it'd be worth a shot if you were so used to XP. EDIT: Found it - https://zorin.com/os/ https://zorin.com/os/
  • estebank 4y ago
    There have been many attempts over the years (remember Lindows?), but I would argue that making Linux look like Windows XP is an excercise in frustration because small differences become even more annoying, as they crop up when you don't expect them, lulled by a false sense of familiarity. An OS Unvanney Valley, if you will.
• qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
  The actors attacking old software, are mostly state actors preparing industrial sabotage for cyber warfare. Most xp instances are some industrial equipment with old pcs as controll equipment. For malware developers those old boxes are uninteresting. To slow, to few, not worth the effort. They are the sloths of the predator and prey ecosystem of software security.
• fsflover 4y ago
  If you care about security and want to run an old Windows with a peace of mind, you should try Windows inside Qubes OS, https://www.qubes-os.org https://www.qubes-os.org. The latter relies on hardware virtualization, which makes it fast and secure: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows.
• tomandrews88 4y ago
  Mine started in 1999 for all the same reasons
• fsiefken 4y ago
  These will keep one running XP perhaps for a little while longer (on qemu on ipad, or other machine). With One-Core-API Chrome 102 works. https://github.com/tumagonx/xompie/ https://github.com/tumagonx/xompie/ https://i430vx.net/files/win32/ https://i430vx.net/files/win32/ https://github.com/Skulltrail192/One-Core-API-Binaries/issues/153 https://github.com/Skulltrail192/One-Core-API-Binaries/issue... https://github.com/Skulltrail192/One-Core-API-Binaries/issues/156 https://github.com/Skulltrail192/One-Core-API-Binaries/issue...
• Dave3of5 4y ago
  I don't really see why windows XP is a better UI. There's lots of stuff that is majorly missing compared to a more modern OS. This sounds like many I talk to in that they refuse to learn or make any changes in their life. I don't think this is a positive attitude to have. He also sounds like a major cheapskate and my country is full of people like this very hard to argue why spending your money is a good thing (within reason).
• codedokode 4y ago
  I switched to Linux from Windows XP. Linux is great in almost every aspect except for memory usage and lots of tiny bugs and things getting constantly broken. If you are not fine with running commands in terminal, it might not work for you. Recent example: in Fedora the firewall in default configuration blocks DHCP packets when you try to share Internet via bluetooth. In Windows traditions no message is displayed on screen nor printed to logs. Wireshark also doesn't show that packets are dropped by firewall. Takes a lot of time to figure out why the client sends DHCP requests and never gets a reply. Why do they enable firewall by default? And if they enable it, why didn't they configure all necessary services properly? I am not running a server in a datacenter, it is more an osbtacle for me. By the way, Windows XP had no such problem. But Linux is better than Windows. For example, Windows 11 doesn't allow to use a computer until you configure a network connection. It has data collection without opt-out, advertisement and involuntary updates. And Linux is better than MacOS because it doesn't make you pay three times more for hardware and get a laptop with soldered RAM and SSD. It is surprising that they have premium prices and at the same time try to save several cents on sockets. If only Linux didn't have those tiny bugs everywhere it could be a viable alternative for people not familiar with console.
  • Mike_12345 4y ago
    >> laptop with soldered RAM The RAM on M1/M2 has 200 GB/sec bandwidth. Hence must be soldered. Impossible with sockets at this level of power consumption. Adding sockets significantly reduces efficiency and performance at the high end. Laws of physics.
    • codedokode 4y ago
      In case of Apple Macs, the board with CPU and RAM could be made replaceable and connect to the rest of laptop with USB and PCIE lanes.
      • Mike_12345 4y ago
        Isn't that basically already the case? The CPU is a System on a Chip. Not much else on that mainboard besides CPU/RAM. The M1/M2 laptops are relatively serviceable compared to the previous generation.
• teddyh 4y ago
  I prefer not to live on the edge of end-of-life; see discussion thread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21785399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21785399
  • dri_ft 4y ago
    Be not the first by whom the new are tried, Nor yet the last to lay the old aside. - Alexander Pope.
• sylens 4y ago
  So many problems with this piece >> My computer is also not some old rubbish. It has an Intel Core2Duo CPU with 4 Gb RAM. It was top of the line in 2009. Just because you had a top of the line PC in 2009 does not disqualify it from being 'old rubbish' in 2023. A Core2Duo is ancient at this point. >> The truth is I have never been hacked once in the eight years I have had this computer. Or something has been compromised or exploited and you've had no idea because it's not something obvious like opening your CD-ROM drive automatically. >> My belief is that computer security is highly overrated. With a decent firewall, which every router has these days, only your own activity can expose you to attack from hostile actors This probably explains the author's mindset. An outdated belief system that the only thing you need is a firewall to stay safe on the modern Internet. Even worse, the author's successor computer is a Windows 7 PC, which is already out of support
  • NikolaNovak 4y ago
    That's the thing. I'm an it professional. I've had a computer since I was 6 (30years ago). Couple of decades ago, I could be reasonably confident that my pc was safe. Today? I take above average precautions but I would never claim that my system is not pwned on some level. That feels like arrogance and hubris (as well as a little bit of "I played Russian roulette several times and I'm fine! It's dangers are overblown:)
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • t0bia_s 4y ago
      Russian rullete is safe! All who participated can confirm it!
  • devnullbrain 4y ago
    >Or something has been compromised or exploited and you've had no idea because it's not something obvious like opening your CD-ROM drive automatically. This is addressed two paragraphs after the one you've quoted.
• anthk 4y ago
  >My belief is that computer security is highly overrated. With a decent firewall, which every router has these days, only your own activity can expose you to attack from hostile actors. All internet browsers also help you by warning when you are about to do something stupid like executing code from a remote source HN uses might be young, but C# malware will run everywhere. Also, remember Blaster/Sasser? Good times.
  • timbit42 4y ago
    Not if you don't install dot NET.
    • anthk 4y ago
      Every XP user on legacy will use C# tools in one way of another. The amount of Java and C# enterprise software being developed ad-hoc it's huge.
• qbasic_forever 4y ago
  They should really try XFCE, it feels extremely similar to old-school windows (95/XP). You can even theme it to look unbelievably similar to old windows. I feel like them installing the latest Xubuntu with XFCE and Firefox with an ad blocker would let that old laptop run for many more years of service. Heck, the latest version of Wine probably runs all their old XP software just fine as-is too.
  • causi 4y ago
    How does XFCE feel like old windows? To me it looks a lot more like OSX than Windows.
    • qbasic_forever 4y ago
      Change its appearance theme to the windows one (in the settings app), disable the bottom bar/dock and move the top bar down to the bottom. Now you've got a typical windows style start menu. XFCE is very flexible and you can configure the docks/bars to feel like old windows, old Mac, etc. Its file manager (thunar) is basically a a perfect copy of Windows file explorer from the XP era. If you want to go full old windows it's an easy next step to run this theme's setup script: https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95 https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95
    • timbit42 4y ago
      My XFCE looks like MacOS 9.
• rejectfinite 4y ago
  Windows 10 + O&O ShutUp10++ program Then set your default apps as you want Its fine imo
• can16358p 4y ago
  Why not a fresh start with Windows 11? Not that I'm a fan of it or anything, but at least it's the latest and the greatest (in terms of Windows) and will be well supported moving forward, especially compared to ancient versions of Windows.
• Cupprum 4y ago
  Windows is more responsive than Linux? Could you elaborate please?
  • timbit42 4y ago
    Perhaps they mean it's more responsive than Linux without proper video drivers.
• pcdoodle 4y ago
  I think his windows 7 build will be fun. It will experience just as long of a tail as XP due to huge amounts of ram being supported. I'm sure the XP machine he's getting off, would blow a Pi4 out of the water utility wise. I don't mind this article one bit. Thanks for sharing!
• shortrounddev 4y ago
  The guy who developed stb_image writes all his software on Visual C++ 6 from 1998 https://github.com/nothings/stb https://github.com/nothings/stb > Why not C99? stdint.h, declare-anywhere, etc. > I still use MSVC 6 (1998) as my IDE because it has better human factors for me than later versions of MSVC.
• lurtbancaster 4y ago
  Hey, Congratulations on your upgrade to Windows 7! Not 48 hours ago, I spoke highly of the benefits of Windows 7[1], as a user myself. It is absolutely possible to use Windows 7 reasonably securely, if you take the appropriate precautions(again, see my comment) > I can use the latest versions of Google Chrome Firefox? Yes. Chrome? No. Chromium 109 is the last version to support Windows 7. Here's the last working ungoogled variant [2]. Switch to LibreWolf[3] Firefox based browser with user.js modifications[3] pre-installed. Or if you don't trust librewolf, use Firefox and manually add the same user.js[4] It's better for security than Chrome could ever hope to be. Your web browser's javascript continues to be the predominant way for malware to make its entry. So just make sure to take the appropriate security precautions elsewhere, as mentioned in my comment [1]. > When Firefox stopped receiving upgrades I switched to Mypal browser, an open source browser specially made for Windows XP. It is cruder than Google Chrome but does the job most of the time. Have you tried K-Meleon on Windows XP[5]? It's Old Firefox(pre-Australis) based, and still gets updates. ----------- Windows 7 is the last legit good Microsoft Operating System. It truly is a wonder and a delight to use and modify. Anyway, all the very best on your Windows 7 journey. May it serve you well. Cheers! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35431587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35431587 [2] https://github.com/macchrome/winchrome/releases/tag/v109.5414.120-M109.0.5414.120-r1070088-Win64 https://github.com/macchrome/winchrome/releases/tag/v109.541... [3] https://librewolf.net/installation/windows/ https://librewolf.net/installation/windows/ [4] https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/blob/master/user.js https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/blob/master/user.js [5] https://kmeleonbrowser.org https://kmeleonbrowser.org
  • roytam87 4y ago
    K-Meleon's engine (i.e. Goanna 3.x) follows ArcticFox, which is trying to catch changes in Gecko 45 right now. better try New Moon 28 which is XP compatible fork of Pale Moon.
    • lurtbancaster 4y ago
      Do you perchance happen to also be roytam1 on the official k-meleon forums[1] and other places[2][3]? If so, thank you so much for your work! Also please get https://piped.video https://piped.video working in k-meleon somehow. If you're not that RoyTam, I rescind the previous thank you, and the request. [1] http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,154431,157231,page=26 http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,154431,157231,pa... [2] https://rtfreesoft.blogspot.com/ https://rtfreesoft.blogspot.com/ [3] https://o.rthost.win/palemoon/ https://o.rthost.win/palemoon/
• hnarn 4y ago
  The amount of people in this thread that like the author are not just comfortable with running EOL software but wear it as a badge of honor is truly staggering. You would think that if there was one place where the dangers of not having the possibility of patches when the next “heartbleed” comes was obvious and understood by all (read: major software vulnerability affecting critical libraries) — it would be a forum mostly composed of software engineers.
• M95D 4y ago
  I still have a WinXP 64bit as my main OS, with Office 2003 too, same as the author. I have a Win7 machine, for gaming, not directly connected to the internet. I hate it so much it's never going to be my main OS. I'm forced to use Win10 at work, and I hate it even more. I'm slowly switching to Linux (in a VM in WinXP64). From linux, currently I'm only using Firefox without a desktop environment; anything else is too difficult, too incompatible, too slow or too bloated. To me, Linux desktops really look and feel a lot like Win10, execept with a lot more bugs and lacking Windows' Control Panel (what's left of it, anyway...). Anyone focusing on constant updates must be really young in my opinion. I understand your point of view. I was like that too. When you grow older you will start to notice how the OS you grew up with could do 90% of what your current OS does, using just 1% of memory, 1% disk space and maybe 10% CPU. At some point you will want to stop all this constant fight to get minimally better features (or even less features) at the cost of ever-faster new hardware and, at the same time, ever-slower UI. Only then you will be able to understand my point of view.