47 ms·
Alibaba breaks itself up in six
- laangregor 4y agohttp://web.archive.org/web/20230404013111/https://www.economist.com/business/2023/03/30/alibaba-breaks-itself-up-in-six http://web.archive.org/web/20230404013111/https://www.econom...
- foolinaround 4y agohttps://archive.ph/VYxH4 https://archive.ph/VYxH4
- ShaurAsar 4y ago[flagged]
- ManiAbod 4y ago[dead]
- fidrelity 4y agoIsn't this very similar to the plotline of Inception? Looks like the CPC has mastered multi-layered inception. /s
- hulitu 4y agoAt least some countries fight monopolies, not promote them. /s
- Animatronio 4y agoWhy the /s though? It's obvious some countries actually promote monopolies, especially when they go global.
- fortuna86 4y agoLike Huawei. China wants them to have a monopoly everywhere on earth. Alibaba had nothing to do with being a monopoly, it became a power base to rival the government so it had to be broken and scattered.
- Animatronio 4y agoHuawei, Gazprom, Google, Facebook, probably each G7 country has a champion it wants to rule the field.
- fortuna86 4y agoDoes any western government activity promote monopolies abroad and threaten consequences if such monopolies are fought against, all while accepting state-backed monopoly at home? https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-threatens-retaliation-against-ericsson-if-sweden-doesnt-drop-huawei-5g-ban-11620740192 https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-threatens-retaliation-aga... To recap, the Alibaba break up wasn't about a monopoly, it was about a rival power base to the CCP that couldn't be allowed to exist.
- Animatronio 4y agoWell, how about Boeing vs Airbus?
- fortuna86 4y agoHow is it even possible to establish a monopoly market with airplanes considering you can operate both at the same time? https://www.quora.com/Can-an-airline-have-both-Boeing-and-Airbus-in-their-fleet-Do-you-know-any-examples/answer/Divya-Shah-80 https://www.quora.com/Can-an-airline-have-both-Boeing-and-Ai...
- Animatronio 4y agoThe same way Huawei sells 5G equipment as Ericsson, Nokia, et al.
- crop_rotation 4y agoThe CCP is not fighting monopolies, it is fighting companies that it doesn't like. Taobao/Tmall will still be a monopoly on online retail and will be a full part of Alibaba without taking external investment.
- duxup 4y agoIt’s always hard for me to understand the why when it comes to China’s government. “Investors cheer the move as signalling the end of China’s tech crackdown” If this is government action then why would this be the “end” of government involvement?
- jeron 4y agoI think they mean the end of China’s crackdown wrt alibaba
- duxup 4y agoOh, got it. That makes more sense. I don’t know if it’s true even from that angle… but I get it.
- AlecSchueler 4y agoJust checking my understanding: They prefer individual businesses not to get to big, monopolistic or dominant across multiple sectors, as this would give the business undue influence over politics? And of course they're operating on the idea that the political sphere governs the market and not that the biggest businesses should be the most powerful lobbiests. So this is an end to it because it effectively neuters the one super company by making it into several more easily regulated companies?
- mikea1 4y ago> this would give the business undue influence over politics? It's about power. From the article: > Communist authorities dislike the idea of anything, let alone a large private business, outshining the party. And the country’s leaders bristled at the high profile of Alibaba’s founder, Jack Ma, an icon of Chinese enterprise who every now and again dared question their decisions.
- AlecSchueler 4y agoHow are you definining the dfference between power and influence over politics?
- maxwell 4y agoGreat move. This will increase local competition and wages, diversify ideas and design, and make shareholders more money than as a single entity. As with Standard Oil and AT&T. The U.S. should continue investigating splitting up Alphabet, Apple, Meta, and Microsoft.
- quonn 4y agoHow would you split Apple? How would you split Meta (would you start charging for WhatsApp)?
- soperj 4y agoWhatsApp used to charge, but really what they'd do is just charge facebook & whoever else for the data they're sharing.
- robopsychology 4y agoDid they actually charge though? I remember hearing about that but it's been my sole method of messaging for years and I never remember setting up payments with them
- quonn 4y agoI think they charged 1 Euro when you bought the app. I doubt that covers the costs to keep it running.
- 4y ago
- endisneigh 4y agoIt's interesting to contrast China's approach of not allowing business to operate within the plane of power in which the government does, vs. the United States, which has companies whose power is certainly on the level of many state governments.
- duxup 4y agoTo me the complicating factor is “why”. I’m not sure why China as a government makes the calls it does. It’s not clear to me that those aren’t just as self serving as say a big company in the us operating freely and so on.
- re-thc 4y agoChina can't print money and go in infinite debt mode like the US does? The government needs to recover from COVID. Perspective: As leader the in control, I see there's a company that has the largest payment network in the country. Well that can't happen. I need a slice of it. So let's "regulate" it.
- fortuna86 4y agoChina's public debt exceeds the US in several areas, private debt lags behind but is still substantial.
- seanmcdirmid 4y agoIt isn’t clear if SOE debt should be considered public or private debt. On the one hand, these are often publicly traded companies, in the other hand everyone assumes their debt is implicitly guaranteed by the government. Localities will often load up local SOEs with debt when they need to do something for public interest, like build a subway or road. So China’s public debt situation is really murky.
- re-thc 4y agoDebt can only be debt if you believe there exists profits. There are companies that buy and sell off each other to produce "income". A lot of the numbers are inflated or completely cooked.
- Equiet 4y agoA missed opportunity to break it up into 40
- DesiLurker 4y agotook me a sec to realize that this was not a serious remark. :-)
- mportela 4y ago42 is even better
- differentView 4y agoHow is this a breakup if Alibaba is just going to become a holding company owning those six new companies?
- yabones 4y agoPerhaps they're transitioning to the Korean "chaebol" model with complex structures of ownership to obscure the true organizational structure?
- re-thc 4y agoThe true structure is the government is now the holding entity.
- ssnistfajen 4y agoBecause it is not breakup, in the same way that the establishment of Alphabet Group was not a breakup. But as it has always been on the U.S.-dominated English-speaking Internet and media, facts and objectiveness do not matter when it comes to any topic related to China. Anyone can twist, spin, or literally invent anything to fit their own narrative about China and people will believe it without question as long as it leans on the antagonizing side.
- shp0ngle 4y agoThe strict law about what can and cannot Chinese say, share, and see online doesn't help this. Yes there are tons of nonsense online about China. But it is not helped by the total dragnet there is over there. And by the fact that some of the over-the-top stuff about China is indeed true. I mean Jack Ma really _was_ disappeared right after the speech.
- ssnistfajen 4y agoTim Cook or Sundar Pichai also step off the stage after finishing speeches. Does that mean they have been "disappeared"? They have a private life in case you aren't aware. Acknowledging the fact that the CCP is meddling with private sector businesses is not an excuse to spout misinfo.
- davidgerard 4y agohttps://archive.is/VYxH4 https://archive.is/VYxH4
- xwdv 4y agoI always appreciate the CCP’s twisted sense of symbolism. They chose 6 pieces to symbolize Jack Ma having his arms, legs and head cut off, and this is what remains. Chilling.
- eunos 4y agoIt's just your imagination thats too vivid
- paxys 4y ago> breaks itself The CCP has nothing to do with it, I'm sure.
- tiffanyh 4y agoThe six separate units are: 1. Cloud Intelligence 2. Taobao Commerce 3. Local Services 4. Cainiao Smart Logistics 5. Global Digital Commerce 6. Digital Media and Entertainment Group
- thrdbndndn 4y agoPrevious discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35339668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35339668
- opentokix 4y agoCCP breaks up Alibaba in six
- fortuna86 4y agoLove the use of the passive tense. "Company decides to become less of a threat to president for life".
- crop_rotation 4y agoThe media and HN seem to be seeing this as a AT&T style breakup, which is not. It is starting with an Alphabet style restructuring, which sounds big in theory but nothing big might happen in practice. The biggest unit (Taobao/Tmall) will be fully owned by Alibaba and would not seek any external investment (Taobao/Tmall is responsible for >70% of their profits). The new Unit CEOs were not even invited to speak at the announcement. Even if all the new Units sell 10-20% stock to the market, would it really change too many things? It will all depend on how the CCP wants the breakup to play out.
- eloff 4y agoAlso the reason the stock jumped on the news is the company is potentially worth more this way, by breaking out higher margin / faster growth units from the big retail business. A lot of Amazon investors would love to see the same with AWS. It sounds silly since nothing really changes, but it has to do with the way investors calculate the value of public companies.
- crop_rotation 4y agoThis sounds good in theory but might not work in practice. None of them are profitable and depended on Tmall/Taobao for growth. Turning to the public markets would require sacrificing growth for profitability. There might be many other inter dependencies which might turn out costly to unwind. What you are saying might be how it turns out in the end, but it is not a given.
- 4y ago
- skippyboxedhero 4y agoIsn't seven the most powerfully magic number? Wouldn't it be better, make Alibaba stronger...to split the soul into seven pieces?
- rs999gti 4y agoEven numbers are lucky in Chinese culture
- eternalban 4y agoAnd Allah loves odd numbers إِنَّ اللّٰه وِتْرٌ يُحِبُّ الْوِتْرَ "Truly God is One and loves odd numbers" - hadith Arguably it is natural that belief in chance ("luck") and a supreme being would be at odds (npi). Odd number do seem to have a greater claim to authenticity than even numbers. Even directly implies division and multiplicity, whereas odd numbers are the children of unity, thus the 'world' and its chance events fall under the even numbers, but the reality is all about 1 and its odd children.
- jabroni_salad 4y ago8 is a much luckier number and is associated with fortune/wealth. I think 7 is mainly a western thing. although the rule of threes seems to be a universal constant. Just something about it.
- skippyboxedhero 4y agoIt is a Harry Potter quote/reference.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- 27fingies 4y ago> The Communist authorities dislike the idea of anything, let alone a large private business, outshining the party. I have a hard time believing this is the reason the Communist party wants to control capitalist elements… because they “outshine the party”
- 29athrowaway 4y agoJack Ma criticized the Chinese way of doing things, he had been planing to do an IPO for Ant group. That IPO was canceled by the CCP, the guy disappeared for months and now his stuff is being broken up. The message is clear: no matter who you are, criticize the party and you will get rekt.
- web3-is-a-scam 4y ago> The company’s artificial-intelligence and cloud-computing operations will form a separate unit, led by Daniel Zhang, the current group chief executive. So it looks like Jack Ma's joke about AI meaning "Alibaba Intelligence" is coming to fruition.
- Wolfenstein98k 4y agoYes, I'm sure Alibaba broke "itself" up, and the CCP wasn't involved at all.