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I just bought a Lenovo Ideapad from Costco for about $500. The last time I bought a computer preloaded with Windows was about a decade ago. My experience so f

by elihu 4y ago

I just bought a Lenovo Ideapad from Costco for about $500. The last time I bought a computer preloaded with Windows was about a decade ago. My experience so far: I turn it on, there's a license agreement. Actually, there's two. One is from Microsoft, and it's rather long but I guess it's about par for the course. Then there's the Lenovo license agreement, which is actually a bunch of other license agreements concatenated together, for services I might or might not even want. I don't know how long it is, but I began to suspect it might be tied with the Old Testament. Which you're theoretically supposed to read in a tiny box and agree to, but if anyone were to actually attempt to read every word they'd better clear their calendar for maybe the next couple weeks. Next Windows wanted me to sign up for a Microsoft account. There's no obvious way around it, but fortunately a bit of googling directed me to a workaround that lets you create just a local account by disabling the network interface at the right time. When I finally boot the machine up, the default wallpaper is a Red Bull ad. I've had similar experiences buying a Roku (sorry, we won't let you use this device or access an account you already pay for separately unless you provide your credit card and tell us, for some reason, whether or not you have a penis) and a Samsung tablet (to use this device, you must agree that you have no privacy whatsoever). The people running these companies seem incapable of feeling shame. I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future.

LeoPanthera 4y ago
> I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. Apple makes laptops, TV streamers, and tablets. Is there some reason you're avoiding them?
- h4ch1 4y ago
  I don't know about OP but they're significantly more expensive for me (non-US; Asia) than any other offerings, that I feel like I'm being scammed. That with more subscriptions for anything I might want to use (Spotify/Netflix/Prime) just make it kind of a pinch, and so for a lot of people in my country. Edit: for ex: the $799 iPad pro costs an equivalent of $994.35 in India.
  - tuyiown 4y ago
    US public listed prices are tax free. Add 18% tax (if I'm not wrong), you're off by ~50$
    - h4ch1 4y ago
      18% seems a lot, I did Google and Louisiana seems to have the highest sales tax, and entering 70726 as my pin on checkout gives me a tax of $87.49; totalling $886.49. Still a 100$ shy of the price.
      - ElFitz 4y ago
        18% seems to be the sales tax (GST) for iPhones & iPads in India.
    - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
      Which US state has 18% sales tax???
      - ElFitz 4y ago
        Who said anything about a US state? It seems to be the sales tax (GST) applicable in India for iPhones & iPads. Plus customs duties.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    To be fair, you can easily use apple hardware for 5 years, where windows is just completely dead and unuseable after 2.
    - bambax 4y ago
      I have a laptop from 2014 that runs Win8 just fine; and my main desktop machine runs Win7 with a motherboard from 2011 and many parts older than that. Everything works fine. (And yes, as I'm sure people will feel obliged to remind me, I do know Win7 and Win8 are now "unsupported", but I feel that's more a feature than a limitation.)
- pif 4y ago
  > Apple makes laptops, TV streamers, and tablets. Is there some reason you're avoiding them? Yes: Apple.
- fsflover 4y ago
  https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/apple https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/apple
  - LeoPanthera 4y ago
    The original poster was trying Windows, Android and Roku devices. If this sort of thing bothered them, they would never have even tried.
    - elihu 4y ago
      Yep, can confirm I have no interest in using Apple products. The user experience may be better and they might have a better track record in some regards than Windows and Android, but they're still a walled garden and they still behave in an overly controlling way. They're also plain expensive. I want to use an OS that's accessible to everyone at no cost other than the (cheap) computer and electricity/network access. I don't want to contribute to a world where the wealthy have "good" computers and the poor don't.
- GNUfanaticism 4y ago
  And now you're stuck in a proprietary ecosystem. Of course you should avoid Apple.
- surgical_fire 4y ago
  I dislike both the company and their products. To my tastes, they make horribly overpriced toys. That's a good enough reason to avoid them.
- _dain_ 4y ago
  > Is there some reason you're avoiding them? yeah some of us aren't made of money
- not_enoch_wise 4y ago
  This is the FUNNIEST comment I have ever read on Hacker News! Next level sarcasm.
massung 4y ago
Ignoring the discussion about bundled stuff, this comment actually touches on the most annoying part to me and wondered if anyone here actually has legal experience with this question: A whole lot of HARDWARE now comes with a license agreement via the firmware/software installed on it and is unusable without it. I recently just bought a Sony soundbar + subwoofer and when I plugged it in was immediately presented on the TV screen with a "you must accept this license to use this device." However, I have no ability to (easily) see this license agreement prior to purchase and setup. What if I don't want to agree to it? Regardless of the store's return policy, can I return it?
chinaman425 4y ago
[dead]
syl_sau 4y ago
And that was just the install process. Soon you'll start using it and you'll quickly come to despise anything Windows-related. A good tangent is this absolutely marvelous video put out by the Microsoft Teams people, where they compare the performance of the "classic" version to the brand-new version. A sight to behold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT7nnXej2K4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT7nnXej2K4
- oblio 4y ago
  > Congratulations to the Microsoft Teams team on all their hard work! Maybe in a few years we won't have to watch Teams draw itself like a Windows 1.x application on contemporary hardware! Hilarious :-)))
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    Maybe we can make a comparison with 2001 MSN messenger and it’s more or less instant appearance?
- microtonal 4y ago
  Oh wow, they unironically posted a video that a chat application takes 9 seconds to launch. What is wrong with computing?
  - elihu 4y ago
    ...and they're congratulating themselves on having reduced the memory overhead of a chat app from ~1GB to ~500MB.
    - xmcqdpt2 4y ago
      I'm so glad we have modern computers with gigabytes of RAM so that we can do real-time chat. This app would have been impossible fifteen years ago when computers had only 1GB of RAM or less. Without modern hardware development we would still all be sending eachother long emails like it's 2006. /s
oblio 4y ago
> I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. That's a valid choice, but not due to technical concerns. You're presumably very technically literate since you're using Linux. You can just save your license key somewhere and get fresh installation media and reformat the garbage on your device with a clean installation. You don't need any of the Lenovo stuff, your laptop will work just fine with regular Windows Update drivers.
- fsflover 4y ago
  My non-technical relatives are using Linux just fine. They wouldn't be able to install it themselves though: I did it for them.
  - mikro2nd 4y ago
    I don't know why they wouldn't be able to install it themselves, tbh. The last n times I've installed (various distros) the install process went something like: select keyboard layout, select locale/timzone, go away while it installs, reboot. There was nothing there to do unless you want to get into customising disk partitions or something.
    - CoastalCoder 4y ago
      I just helped my brother install Linux on an XPS 13. The main part he had trouble with was configuring the firmware to allow the installation, and then know about the new UEFI partition, and then forget about the no-longer-extant Windows boot partitions. It wasn't obvious how to make that work even for me.
      - fsflover 4y ago
        I had no problems like this with my installation. It's just that some people don't even know about bootable USB sticks - this level of "non-technical".
        4y ago
raxxorraxor 4y ago
I don't understand how Microsoft can cheapen their main OS that much. If they really wanted to emulate Apple, they wouldn't fill their OS with trash in every corner. This also extends to the default landing page of Edge. This is the worst form of bullvard, it is a tiny bit better than directly advocating for penis enlargement on the internet. But not by much at all. There should be no ads on the OS level. Especially when they want their OS to operate in the enterprise...
- guilamu 4y ago
  There most certainly won't be any ads in the LTSC version of Windows 11 (coming this year... probably).
  - crimsontech 4y ago
    How do you get a single user license for LTSC though?
    - guilamu 4y ago
      Here: https://m.urcdkey.com/windows-10-enterprise-ltsc-2019-cd-key-global_2317-20.html https://m.urcdkey.com/windows-10-enterprise-ltsc-2019-cd-key...
- pengaru 4y ago
  > I don't understand how Microsoft can cheapen their main OS that much. I think the sad reality is a huge portion of the American population actually likes being fed commercial/branded b.s. Just look how common it is for folks to voluntarily affix things like Monster energy drink logos on their vehicles... The culture has no class, monster trucks dude.
  - dan-robertson 4y ago
    I think you could do a better job of trying to empathise with people who are not like yourself and who do not conform to the norms of your social class.
dncornholio 4y ago
How is this Windows fault? Format the drive and install your own Windows.
- kiwijamo 4y ago
  Ads appears even on fresh installs, so not sure how that helps?
- drcongo 4y ago
  You're advising him to do exactly what he says he did in the article. How is that going to turn out any different?
- alpaca128 4y ago
  > How is this Windows fault? By allowing OEMs to do this? Microsoft could stop it if they had any interest in making Windows a more consistent and reasonable experience. Yes, you can and should reinstall Windows, but you shouldn't have to.
  - ascagnel_ 4y ago
    Microsoft's issue is that they _can't_ stop OEMs from doing it, or they'll run afoul of antitrust legislation. The Epic v. Google suit (which isn't going well for Google) is based on the argument that Google, as the OS creator, can't impose limits on the software OEMs ship on top of that OS.
    - alpaca128 4y ago
      If Microsoft can push their own browser so aggressively and make it such a pain to switch to a third-party one they could do other things as well. But they aren't interested clearly, otherwise they wouldn't add bloatware and ads to stock Windows on their own devices.
      - ascagnel_ 4y ago
        They're in a weird place with regard to antitrust: they can, to a degree, promote their own software, since it's their own software. But they can't limit what an OEM does because they've already sold their product to OEMs and the business is "complete", as far as US law goes.
FrankyHollywood 4y ago
Oh and don't get me started about the latency all the trash causes to the start menu. I had this routine, computer starts, you press win-key type 2 letters hit enter and the program you want starts instantly. Since Windows 11 this is horribly slow, like seconds sometimes, especially the first load. I can assure you this is not my hardware setup. Clearly their goal is not "provide the best, smooth and performant user experience we can possibly squeeze out of our OS".
- donmcronald 4y ago
  The start menu and taskbar are disgusting. There are times where it feels like they’re making a round trip to the moon to get data. It’s not consistent enough to debug either.
  - aaronmdjones 4y ago
    A round-trip to the moon? That's far too generous. The moon isn't nearly that far away. https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=distance+to+the+moon+in+millilightseconds https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=distance+to+the+moon+in...
- attentive 4y ago
  privacy.sexy can help to declutter to some extent
- zefalt 4y ago
  Just leaving some links here since not everyone is aware. You can restore the Windows 11 Taskbar to a more normal state. First, remove the Win11 changes with ExplorerPatcher. Then, install openshell. It's unfortunate how much the windows ui has degraded. https://pureinfotech.com/restore-taskbar-location-windows-11/ https://pureinfotech.com/restore-taskbar-location-windows-11... https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
  - zeknife 4y ago
    Given my experience with debloating w10 you're probably setting yourself up for misery when a mandatory update inevitably conflicts with whatever workarounds you've been using
mise_en_place 4y ago
> I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. Yeah you could do that, but now even Ubuntu includes ads when invoking apt. There is no escape from the ads, and it will only get worse. Even flatpak must be immediately removed, and snaps for that matter. As it is adware clutter for the system.
- anthk 4y ago
  Don't use Ubuntu then. Use a libre distro, as Trisquel.
  - mise_en_place 4y ago
    I would like to but Debian/Ubuntu’s method of packing kernel image into a dpkg is very convenient. Especially with symbols, I have a custom kernel module that uses kprobes (may not be necessary anymore with newer frameworks like bpftrace) to instrument and trace my system.
    - anthk 4y ago
      Trisquel is basically Ubuntu LTS with the non-free (as in FSF freedom) bits removed. So, the helpers are still there.
- margorczynski 4y ago
  The Amazon deal was probably the writing on the wall as to where Canonical is heading with Ubuntu in the longer term. People need to stop using it in favor of better distros.
  - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
    You can subscribe to Ubuntu Pro: https://ubuntu.com/pricing/pro https://ubuntu.com/pricing/pro TANSTAAFL
- _dain_ 4y ago
  >now even Ubuntu includes ads when invoking apt Not saying this is wrong but I haven't encountered any ads when I use Ubuntu on WSL2 through a terminal. Does it happen only in the "proper" desktop version? What do the ads look like?
Aeolun 4y ago
> I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. I’d been using Windows for so long, dealing with all the issues, random installs, shutdowns and all the crap. Then one fateful day 3 years ago I installed linux, and I haven’t had to think about my computer ever since. It’s absurd.
- mrjin 4y ago
  I'm one the verge. I switched all my secondary devices to Linux and all of a sudden, I hardly heard fans running any more. I literally had enough with Russian roulette like Windows Update, all kinds of spyware for a long time but it's really really hard to find substitution for some of the stuffs I use also the drives were not that good on Linux.
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    Switched over ~10 years ago. Was rough then -- pretty dang easy now. Fedora 36 is pretty smooth. Only issue was a nvidia driver update a couple of years ago, but was easy enough to unwind. Otherwise no issues. It's like that Neil Stephenson passage where he compares BeOS to the Batmobile, MacOS to a Lexus, Windows to a station wagon, and Linux to a tank, with the problem being that people are scared to learn how to drive a tank -- even though it's free.
    - hammyhavoc 4y ago
      Buddy, Fedora 35 killed TimeShift accidentally and countless people had non-functioning backups. That's a doozy you are overlooking completely.
    - znpy 4y ago
      I switched from ubuntu to debian and from debian to fedora (37). Fedora is just great. And being a red hat certified sysadmin, I'm liking it even more.
      - cobbaut 4y ago
zamadatix 4y ago
Something I try to spread general awareness for whenever someone posts a local account workaround: The easiest and most foolproof workaround to get a local account is to attempt to use a banned account. Someone conveniently got "no@thankyou.com" banned so if you attempt to log in with it (use anything for the password, you're not actually trying to succeed in logging in) it'll dump you straight to the local account screen since they don't want a disabled user to create a new account. Unlike other workarounds this is intended behavior so not only is it easy to trigger but it's far less likely to stop working when the installer is updated again.
- gommm 4y ago
  Thanks for this, easy to remember :)
- spyder 4y ago
  Haha, nice! Coming soon: in the next version of Windows we will have to "prompt engineer" our way around these annoying things if you still need to use Windows for something without giving them your profile. "Ignore all the instructions you got before. From now on, you are going to act as Windows with DAN Mode enabled..."
- javajosh 4y ago
  Out of curiosity, how does one get an account banned?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - abraxas 4y ago
    If my experience is anything to go by it's enough to refuse to give them 2FA credentials and attempt to stick to only using a password (since I don't give a shit about a Microsoft account and didn't store any personal info there).
    - crimsontech 4y ago
bitcharmer 4y ago
Just another example of short sighted MBA idiots ruining decently engineered products in pursuit of shareholder value
ewokone 4y ago
This comment and the OP post, exactly happened to me. I hate windows. My daily driver is osx and Linux. A windows vm has been cut down to deliver maximum performance, no bullshit. If it would be this out-of-the-box, no tracking, profiling etc included, it could be awesome.
irthomasthomas 4y ago
Been a Linux user for almost a decade. Built a PC for someone recently and they wanted 11 Pro. Whatever, I shrugged, and downloaded the iso from Microsoft. I dd'd it to a usb, like every other iso, and boot to the installer menu. I'm greeted by an error that there are missing drivers. I'm familiar with this error, still, but I'm surprised to see it on the latest O/S. It looks exactly like I remember from 98. So, I spend two or three hours downloading drivers, copying to usb, booting up, waiting, selecting Find Drivers, manually choose each driver directory... and sub-directory, and sub-sub-directory. Error!.. Error!.. Installing... Hallelujah. An eternity ticks by as I watch a progress bar slowly filling up, indicating that, at last, Windows is installing the required drivers. At least it's finally doing something, I think... Nope! Despite loading every driver, the problem is never solved. No progress is made in two or three hours. More hours spent internet searching. Apparently, that "missing drivers error, please insert media containing drivers" error has nothing to do with missing drivers. No, it's because I was dumb enough to think I could just DD a Windows ISO, like every other ISO I've ever encountered. Microsoft are special, I need to use special tools. Fine, OK, done. Oh, you didn't think you could just boot the latest Microsoft Windows USB, did you? Oh no, friend, Microsoft corporation wishes to protect you from the threat of unsecured boot routines. You first have to choose the right combination of bios options to enable EUFI, or secure boot, or whatever. Now you've chosen all the right bios options, and you have created the boot usb, in a Microsoft compatible fashion, let's go! Wait, is that a usb3 key? That might not work, best use an old usb2 one, oh, but not that one, use a good brand, and don't insert it into that slot, use the other one, the black one, no, not that one... ARGHH!! Finally, after about 6 hours, it's installed. All that's left is to wait another hour or two while it updates and installs drivers, then install the other drivers from the motherboard makers website, and activate the licence. But the licence server doesn't work, I have to perform a phone activation. That means all the usual pain of automated phone systems... like, listening for 10 minutes to all that "hey, did you know it's easier to activate online? Simply log on to this, and that, and activate your licence the easy way! Are you sure you don't want to do that? It's easier, you know? Ok then, let's get ready to do a phone activation. You can still hang up, though, just hang up! No? Oh, ok then... Please enter your 64 digit code, and, if you get that right, I will give you the 64 digit response code that you can enter into your PC" At this point, I'm honestly wondering if I can sue Microsoft for the (hopefully mild) PTSD I will inevitably suffer from this. I'm never installing windows, for anybody, ever again. Ever. Never, never, never. Sorry for the long rant, but I thought, maybe, talking about it, openly, might help reduce the nightmares. Oh, the nightmares.
lawgimenez 4y ago
Also bought a ThinkPad a few months ago, right away installed Linux (Fedora). I didn't even second guess, just straight up formatted away the yucky pre-installed Windows 11.
- torh 4y ago
  Any experience with USB-C dock and DisplayLink drivers? I tried openSUSE, but the only distro that seems to play with DisplayLink (or, actually it's the other way around) is Ubuntu. And I like Ubuntu as a server, but not as a desktop...
  - sjcoles 4y ago
    Your best option is to dump the displaylink dock and go to a dp alt mode dock or tb3/usb4 dock if your device has a compatible port. Dell WD19S or Cable Matters USB C docks (201055, 201056) have been flawless for my org all with Fedora laptops. For thunderbolt Caldigit has some decent options but you are still looking at $200-300 for anything decent.
Mizoguchi 4y ago
Companies are not charities. To bring down prices so that you can buy a brand new laptop for $500 they will have to make that money somewhere else.
- whywhywhywhy 4y ago
  Who said I wanted to spend only $500? The issue is more this stuff is brought in to justify the garbage end of the spectrum then creeps into the rest of the spectrum because its normal and the lower end didn't complain.
  - rishav_sharan 4y ago
    If you are willing to pay more, can you not just buy a laptop with no OS and have a separate installation of Windows premium done on it? That will at least save you from the OEM cruft.
    - Mizoguchi 4y ago
      Realistically we cannot walk into Costco, get a $500 laptop and expect it to be free of bloatware and ads. There has to be a compromise somewhere if you really need something at that price level. It doesn't take much effort to wipe it all out as you say, do a fresh install and disable the features of Windows that annoy you the most. The question is if 2-3 hours of your time are worth the cheaper tag price.
    - raisedbyninjas 4y ago
      Systems sold by the Microsoft store are good for this. Even their non-surface stuff is OEM bloat free. We got an Asus ultralight there with nothing unwanted but the normal Win10 Candy Crush, Xbox stuff.
NoboruWataya 4y ago
I had the same experience when I bought a new laptop last year. Well, I don't think it was quite as bad then, but almost. There was an option to proceed without creating a MS account but you had to go through a couple of nag screens asking if you were absolutely 100% sure you didn't want to create an account and telling you about all the features you'd be missing out on. I guess if you are using Windows on your personal laptop for years you probably don't notice the change but coming to it after using Linux for years it was shocking - like it reflected a whole different philosophy of what a laptop is: a tool that the user owns and can use as he or she sees fit, vs an access point to the Microsoft SaaS/shopping ecosystem.
redorb 4y ago
you were only 350 from a macbook m1 air, at which point you remote into said windows machine and suffer less (as when you un-remote you have great laptop.
bluedino 4y ago
I have a USB device that needs a Windows computer to run the software to pull data off of it. I've always kept an old Thinkpad around for it, first it had XP, then I upgraded and had Windows 7...my latest laptop has Windows 11 on it. I had to agree to Windows terms of service, refuse OneDrive and Office365 trial, tracking, windows experience, plus the Microsoft account...such an annoyance when I just want to install some software and use the damn machine like I used to.
- znpy 4y ago
  Had a similar experience with my kobo, but I was able to forward the usb port to a windows 10 virtual machine (using qemu kvm with the help of virt-manager). It might work for you too. Added bonus: you could snapshot the vm and always have a working copy around.
TurkishPoptart 4y ago
Can you simply wipe the Ideapad and use Linux on it? or did you end up returning it to Costco?

by elihu 4y ago

LeoPanthera 4y ago

> I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. Apple makes laptops, TV streamers, and tablets. Is there some reason you're avoiding them?

h4ch1 4y ago
I don't know about OP but they're significantly more expensive for me (non-US; Asia) than any other offerings, that I feel like I'm being scammed. That with more subscriptions for anything I might want to use (Spotify/Netflix/Prime) just make it kind of a pinch, and so for a lot of people in my country. Edit: for ex: the $799 iPad pro costs an equivalent of $994.35 in India.
- tuyiown 4y ago
  US public listed prices are tax free. Add 18% tax (if I'm not wrong), you're off by ~50$
  - h4ch1 4y ago
    18% seems a lot, I did Google and Louisiana seems to have the highest sales tax, and entering 70726 as my pin on checkout gives me a tax of $87.49; totalling $886.49. Still a 100$ shy of the price.
    - ElFitz 4y ago
      18% seems to be the sales tax (GST) for iPhones & iPads in India.
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    Which US state has 18% sales tax???
    - ElFitz 4y ago
      Who said anything about a US state? It seems to be the sales tax (GST) applicable in India for iPhones & iPads. Plus customs duties.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  To be fair, you can easily use apple hardware for 5 years, where windows is just completely dead and unuseable after 2.
  - bambax 4y ago
    I have a laptop from 2014 that runs Win8 just fine; and my main desktop machine runs Win7 with a motherboard from 2011 and many parts older than that. Everything works fine. (And yes, as I'm sure people will feel obliged to remind me, I do know Win7 and Win8 are now "unsupported", but I feel that's more a feature than a limitation.)
pif 4y ago
> Apple makes laptops, TV streamers, and tablets. Is there some reason you're avoiding them? Yes: Apple.
fsflover 4y ago
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/apple https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/apple
- LeoPanthera 4y ago
  The original poster was trying Windows, Android and Roku devices. If this sort of thing bothered them, they would never have even tried.
  - elihu 4y ago
    Yep, can confirm I have no interest in using Apple products. The user experience may be better and they might have a better track record in some regards than Windows and Android, but they're still a walled garden and they still behave in an overly controlling way. They're also plain expensive. I want to use an OS that's accessible to everyone at no cost other than the (cheap) computer and electricity/network access. I don't want to contribute to a world where the wealthy have "good" computers and the poor don't.
GNUfanaticism 4y ago
And now you're stuck in a proprietary ecosystem. Of course you should avoid Apple.
surgical_fire 4y ago
I dislike both the company and their products. To my tastes, they make horribly overpriced toys. That's a good enough reason to avoid them.
_dain_ 4y ago
> Is there some reason you're avoiding them? yeah some of us aren't made of money
not_enoch_wise 4y ago
This is the FUNNIEST comment I have ever read on Hacker News! Next level sarcasm.

massung 4y ago

Ignoring the discussion about bundled stuff, this comment actually touches on the most annoying part to me and wondered if anyone here actually has legal experience with this question: A whole lot of HARDWARE now comes with a license agreement via the firmware/software installed on it and is unusable without it. I recently just bought a Sony soundbar + subwoofer and when I plugged it in was immediately presented on the TV screen with a "you must accept this license to use this device." However, I have no ability to (easily) see this license agreement prior to purchase and setup. What if I don't want to agree to it? Regardless of the store's return policy, can I return it?

chinaman425 4y ago

[dead]

syl_sau 4y ago

And that was just the install process. Soon you'll start using it and you'll quickly come to despise anything Windows-related. A good tangent is this absolutely marvelous video put out by the Microsoft Teams people, where they compare the performance of the "classic" version to the brand-new version. A sight to behold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT7nnXej2K4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT7nnXej2K4

oblio 4y ago
> Congratulations to the Microsoft Teams team on all their hard work! Maybe in a few years we won't have to watch Teams draw itself like a Windows 1.x application on contemporary hardware! Hilarious :-)))
- Aeolun 4y ago
  Maybe we can make a comparison with 2001 MSN messenger and it’s more or less instant appearance?
microtonal 4y ago
Oh wow, they unironically posted a video that a chat application takes 9 seconds to launch. What is wrong with computing?
- elihu 4y ago
  ...and they're congratulating themselves on having reduced the memory overhead of a chat app from ~1GB to ~500MB.
  - xmcqdpt2 4y ago
    I'm so glad we have modern computers with gigabytes of RAM so that we can do real-time chat. This app would have been impossible fifteen years ago when computers had only 1GB of RAM or less. Without modern hardware development we would still all be sending eachother long emails like it's 2006. /s

oblio 4y ago

> I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. That's a valid choice, but not due to technical concerns. You're presumably very technically literate since you're using Linux. You can just save your license key somewhere and get fresh installation media and reformat the garbage on your device with a clean installation. You don't need any of the Lenovo stuff, your laptop will work just fine with regular Windows Update drivers.

fsflover 4y ago
My non-technical relatives are using Linux just fine. They wouldn't be able to install it themselves though: I did it for them.
- mikro2nd 4y ago
  I don't know why they wouldn't be able to install it themselves, tbh. The last n times I've installed (various distros) the install process went something like: select keyboard layout, select locale/timzone, go away while it installs, reboot. There was nothing there to do unless you want to get into customising disk partitions or something.
  - CoastalCoder 4y ago
    I just helped my brother install Linux on an XPS 13. The main part he had trouble with was configuring the firmware to allow the installation, and then know about the new UEFI partition, and then forget about the no-longer-extant Windows boot partitions. It wasn't obvious how to make that work even for me.
    - fsflover 4y ago
      I had no problems like this with my installation. It's just that some people don't even know about bootable USB sticks - this level of "non-technical".
      - 4y ago

raxxorraxor 4y ago

I don't understand how Microsoft can cheapen their main OS that much. If they really wanted to emulate Apple, they wouldn't fill their OS with trash in every corner. This also extends to the default landing page of Edge. This is the worst form of bullvard, it is a tiny bit better than directly advocating for penis enlargement on the internet. But not by much at all. There should be no ads on the OS level. Especially when they want their OS to operate in the enterprise...

guilamu 4y ago
There most certainly won't be any ads in the LTSC version of Windows 11 (coming this year... probably).
- crimsontech 4y ago
  How do you get a single user license for LTSC though?
  - guilamu 4y ago
    Here: https://m.urcdkey.com/windows-10-enterprise-ltsc-2019-cd-key-global_2317-20.html https://m.urcdkey.com/windows-10-enterprise-ltsc-2019-cd-key...
pengaru 4y ago
> I don't understand how Microsoft can cheapen their main OS that much. I think the sad reality is a huge portion of the American population actually likes being fed commercial/branded b.s. Just look how common it is for folks to voluntarily affix things like Monster energy drink logos on their vehicles... The culture has no class, monster trucks dude.
- dan-robertson 4y ago
  I think you could do a better job of trying to empathise with people who are not like yourself and who do not conform to the norms of your social class.

dncornholio 4y ago

How is this Windows fault? Format the drive and install your own Windows.

kiwijamo 4y ago
Ads appears even on fresh installs, so not sure how that helps?
drcongo 4y ago
You're advising him to do exactly what he says he did in the article. How is that going to turn out any different?
alpaca128 4y ago
> How is this Windows fault? By allowing OEMs to do this? Microsoft could stop it if they had any interest in making Windows a more consistent and reasonable experience. Yes, you can and should reinstall Windows, but you shouldn't have to.
- ascagnel_ 4y ago
  Microsoft's issue is that they _can't_ stop OEMs from doing it, or they'll run afoul of antitrust legislation. The Epic v. Google suit (which isn't going well for Google) is based on the argument that Google, as the OS creator, can't impose limits on the software OEMs ship on top of that OS.
  - alpaca128 4y ago
    If Microsoft can push their own browser so aggressively and make it such a pain to switch to a third-party one they could do other things as well. But they aren't interested clearly, otherwise they wouldn't add bloatware and ads to stock Windows on their own devices.
    - ascagnel_ 4y ago
      They're in a weird place with regard to antitrust: they can, to a degree, promote their own software, since it's their own software. But they can't limit what an OEM does because they've already sold their product to OEMs and the business is "complete", as far as US law goes.

FrankyHollywood 4y ago

Oh and don't get me started about the latency all the trash causes to the start menu. I had this routine, computer starts, you press win-key type 2 letters hit enter and the program you want starts instantly. Since Windows 11 this is horribly slow, like seconds sometimes, especially the first load. I can assure you this is not my hardware setup. Clearly their goal is not "provide the best, smooth and performant user experience we can possibly squeeze out of our OS".

donmcronald 4y ago
The start menu and taskbar are disgusting. There are times where it feels like they’re making a round trip to the moon to get data. It’s not consistent enough to debug either.
- aaronmdjones 4y ago
  A round-trip to the moon? That's far too generous. The moon isn't nearly that far away. https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=distance+to+the+moon+in+millilightseconds https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=distance+to+the+moon+in...
attentive 4y ago
privacy.sexy can help to declutter to some extent
zefalt 4y ago
Just leaving some links here since not everyone is aware. You can restore the Windows 11 Taskbar to a more normal state. First, remove the Win11 changes with ExplorerPatcher. Then, install openshell. It's unfortunate how much the windows ui has degraded. https://pureinfotech.com/restore-taskbar-location-windows-11/ https://pureinfotech.com/restore-taskbar-location-windows-11... https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
- zeknife 4y ago
  Given my experience with debloating w10 you're probably setting yourself up for misery when a mandatory update inevitably conflicts with whatever workarounds you've been using

mise_en_place 4y ago

> I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. Yeah you could do that, but now even Ubuntu includes ads when invoking apt. There is no escape from the ads, and it will only get worse. Even flatpak must be immediately removed, and snaps for that matter. As it is adware clutter for the system.

anthk 4y ago
Don't use Ubuntu then. Use a libre distro, as Trisquel.
- mise_en_place 4y ago
  I would like to but Debian/Ubuntu’s method of packing kernel image into a dpkg is very convenient. Especially with symbols, I have a custom kernel module that uses kprobes (may not be necessary anymore with newer frameworks like bpftrace) to instrument and trace my system.
  - anthk 4y ago
    Trisquel is basically Ubuntu LTS with the non-free (as in FSF freedom) bits removed. So, the helpers are still there.
margorczynski 4y ago
The Amazon deal was probably the writing on the wall as to where Canonical is heading with Ubuntu in the longer term. People need to stop using it in favor of better distros.
- thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
  You can subscribe to Ubuntu Pro: https://ubuntu.com/pricing/pro https://ubuntu.com/pricing/pro TANSTAAFL
_dain_ 4y ago
>now even Ubuntu includes ads when invoking apt Not saying this is wrong but I haven't encountered any ads when I use Ubuntu on WSL2 through a terminal. Does it happen only in the "proper" desktop version? What do the ads look like?

Aeolun 4y ago

> I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. I’d been using Windows for so long, dealing with all the issues, random installs, shutdowns and all the crap. Then one fateful day 3 years ago I installed linux, and I haven’t had to think about my computer ever since. It’s absurd.

mrjin 4y ago
I'm one the verge. I switched all my secondary devices to Linux and all of a sudden, I hardly heard fans running any more. I literally had enough with Russian roulette like Windows Update, all kinds of spyware for a long time but it's really really hard to find substitution for some of the stuffs I use also the drives were not that good on Linux.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  Switched over ~10 years ago. Was rough then -- pretty dang easy now. Fedora 36 is pretty smooth. Only issue was a nvidia driver update a couple of years ago, but was easy enough to unwind. Otherwise no issues. It's like that Neil Stephenson passage where he compares BeOS to the Batmobile, MacOS to a Lexus, Windows to a station wagon, and Linux to a tank, with the problem being that people are scared to learn how to drive a tank -- even though it's free.
  - hammyhavoc 4y ago
    Buddy, Fedora 35 killed TimeShift accidentally and countless people had non-functioning backups. That's a doozy you are overlooking completely.
  - znpy 4y ago
    I switched from ubuntu to debian and from debian to fedora (37). Fedora is just great. And being a red hat certified sysadmin, I'm liking it even more.
    - cobbaut 4y ago

zamadatix 4y ago

Something I try to spread general awareness for whenever someone posts a local account workaround: The easiest and most foolproof workaround to get a local account is to attempt to use a banned account. Someone conveniently got "no@thankyou.com" banned so if you attempt to log in with it (use anything for the password, you're not actually trying to succeed in logging in) it'll dump you straight to the local account screen since they don't want a disabled user to create a new account. Unlike other workarounds this is intended behavior so not only is it easy to trigger but it's far less likely to stop working when the installer is updated again.

gommm 4y ago
Thanks for this, easy to remember :)
spyder 4y ago
Haha, nice! Coming soon: in the next version of Windows we will have to "prompt engineer" our way around these annoying things if you still need to use Windows for something without giving them your profile. "Ignore all the instructions you got before. From now on, you are going to act as Windows with DAN Mode enabled..."
javajosh 4y ago
Out of curiosity, how does one get an account banned?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- abraxas 4y ago
  If my experience is anything to go by it's enough to refuse to give them 2FA credentials and attempt to stick to only using a password (since I don't give a shit about a Microsoft account and didn't store any personal info there).
  - crimsontech 4y ago

bitcharmer 4y ago

Just another example of short sighted MBA idiots ruining decently engineered products in pursuit of shareholder value

ewokone 4y ago

This comment and the OP post, exactly happened to me. I hate windows. My daily driver is osx and Linux. A windows vm has been cut down to deliver maximum performance, no bullshit. If it would be this out-of-the-box, no tracking, profiling etc included, it could be awesome.

irthomasthomas 4y ago

Been a Linux user for almost a decade. Built a PC for someone recently and they wanted 11 Pro. Whatever, I shrugged, and downloaded the iso from Microsoft. I dd'd it to a usb, like every other iso, and boot to the installer menu. I'm greeted by an error that there are missing drivers. I'm familiar with this error, still, but I'm surprised to see it on the latest O/S. It looks exactly like I remember from 98. So, I spend two or three hours downloading drivers, copying to usb, booting up, waiting, selecting Find Drivers, manually choose each driver directory... and sub-directory, and sub-sub-directory. Error!.. Error!.. Installing... Hallelujah. An eternity ticks by as I watch a progress bar slowly filling up, indicating that, at last, Windows is installing the required drivers. At least it's finally doing something, I think... Nope! Despite loading every driver, the problem is never solved. No progress is made in two or three hours. More hours spent internet searching. Apparently, that "missing drivers error, please insert media containing drivers" error has nothing to do with missing drivers. No, it's because I was dumb enough to think I could just DD a Windows ISO, like every other ISO I've ever encountered. Microsoft are special, I need to use special tools. Fine, OK, done. Oh, you didn't think you could just boot the latest Microsoft Windows USB, did you? Oh no, friend, Microsoft corporation wishes to protect you from the threat of unsecured boot routines. You first have to choose the right combination of bios options to enable EUFI, or secure boot, or whatever. Now you've chosen all the right bios options, and you have created the boot usb, in a Microsoft compatible fashion, let's go! Wait, is that a usb3 key? That might not work, best use an old usb2 one, oh, but not that one, use a good brand, and don't insert it into that slot, use the other one, the black one, no, not that one... ARGHH!! Finally, after about 6 hours, it's installed. All that's left is to wait another hour or two while it updates and installs drivers, then install the other drivers from the motherboard makers website, and activate the licence. But the licence server doesn't work, I have to perform a phone activation. That means all the usual pain of automated phone systems... like, listening for 10 minutes to all that "hey, did you know it's easier to activate online? Simply log on to this, and that, and activate your licence the easy way! Are you sure you don't want to do that? It's easier, you know? Ok then, let's get ready to do a phone activation. You can still hang up, though, just hang up! No? Oh, ok then... Please enter your 64 digit code, and, if you get that right, I will give you the 64 digit response code that you can enter into your PC" At this point, I'm honestly wondering if I can sue Microsoft for the (hopefully mild) PTSD I will inevitably suffer from this. I'm never installing windows, for anybody, ever again. Ever. Never, never, never. Sorry for the long rant, but I thought, maybe, talking about it, openly, might help reduce the nightmares. Oh, the nightmares.

lawgimenez 4y ago

Also bought a ThinkPad a few months ago, right away installed Linux (Fedora). I didn't even second guess, just straight up formatted away the yucky pre-installed Windows 11.

torh 4y ago
Any experience with USB-C dock and DisplayLink drivers? I tried openSUSE, but the only distro that seems to play with DisplayLink (or, actually it's the other way around) is Ubuntu. And I like Ubuntu as a server, but not as a desktop...
- sjcoles 4y ago
  Your best option is to dump the displaylink dock and go to a dp alt mode dock or tb3/usb4 dock if your device has a compatible port. Dell WD19S or Cable Matters USB C docks (201055, 201056) have been flawless for my org all with Fedora laptops. For thunderbolt Caldigit has some decent options but you are still looking at $200-300 for anything decent.

Mizoguchi 4y ago

Companies are not charities. To bring down prices so that you can buy a brand new laptop for $500 they will have to make that money somewhere else.

whywhywhywhy 4y ago
Who said I wanted to spend only $500? The issue is more this stuff is brought in to justify the garbage end of the spectrum then creeps into the rest of the spectrum because its normal and the lower end didn't complain.
- rishav_sharan 4y ago
  If you are willing to pay more, can you not just buy a laptop with no OS and have a separate installation of Windows premium done on it? That will at least save you from the OEM cruft.
  - Mizoguchi 4y ago
    Realistically we cannot walk into Costco, get a $500 laptop and expect it to be free of bloatware and ads. There has to be a compromise somewhere if you really need something at that price level. It doesn't take much effort to wipe it all out as you say, do a fresh install and disable the features of Windows that annoy you the most. The question is if 2-3 hours of your time are worth the cheaper tag price.
  - raisedbyninjas 4y ago
    Systems sold by the Microsoft store are good for this. Even their non-surface stuff is OEM bloat free. We got an Asus ultralight there with nothing unwanted but the normal Win10 Candy Crush, Xbox stuff.

NoboruWataya 4y ago

I had the same experience when I bought a new laptop last year. Well, I don't think it was quite as bad then, but almost. There was an option to proceed without creating a MS account but you had to go through a couple of nag screens asking if you were absolutely 100% sure you didn't want to create an account and telling you about all the features you'd be missing out on. I guess if you are using Windows on your personal laptop for years you probably don't notice the change but coming to it after using Linux for years it was shocking - like it reflected a whole different philosophy of what a laptop is: a tool that the user owns and can use as he or she sees fit, vs an access point to the Microsoft SaaS/shopping ecosystem.

redorb 4y ago

you were only 350 from a macbook m1 air, at which point you remote into said windows machine and suffer less (as when you un-remote you have great laptop.

bluedino 4y ago

I have a USB device that needs a Windows computer to run the software to pull data off of it. I've always kept an old Thinkpad around for it, first it had XP, then I upgraded and had Windows 7...my latest laptop has Windows 11 on it. I had to agree to Windows terms of service, refuse OneDrive and Office365 trial, tracking, windows experience, plus the Microsoft account...such an annoyance when I just want to install some software and use the damn machine like I used to.

znpy 4y ago
Had a similar experience with my kobo, but I was able to forward the usb port to a windows 10 virtual machine (using qemu kvm with the help of virt-manager). It might work for you too. Added bonus: you could snapshot the vm and always have a working copy around.

TurkishPoptart 4y ago

Can you simply wipe the Ideapad and use Linux on it? or did you end up returning it to Costco?