8 ms·

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is opposed to the TikTok ban. About 5 days ago, she posted a video on TikTok explaining her thinking here: https://www.tiktok.com/@ao

by elihu 4y ago

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is opposed to the TikTok ban. About 5 days ago, she posted a video on TikTok explaining her thinking here: https://www.tiktok.com/@aocinthehouse/video/7214318917135830318 https://www.tiktok.com/@aocinthehouse/video/7214318917135830... The summary is: this would be a pretty unprecedented move to effectively ban a social media company. In this case, TikTok isn't even doing anything illegal as far as we know, because the United States has basically no data privacy laws that would be relevant here in the first place. The solution to that problem isn't to ban TikTok, it's to create a regulatory framework where companies are obligated to follow certain rules. Also, with these sorts of issues Congress usually receives a classified briefing where they're told the nature of the allegations against a specific party. Congress, however, has not been briefed on what TikTok is doing, which is odd. And besides, those allegations should probably be shared publicly in this case because the effects of any potential legislation are so significant. As she says, "this doesn't feel right." It seems like Congress isn't following its normal procedures. She doesn't talk about the language of any particular bill or how it doesn't mention TikTok at all; I'm not sure if the version referred to by the original video was available to AOC when she made her video.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
> In this case, TikTok isn't even doing anything illegal as far as we know, because the United States has basically no data privacy laws that would be relevant here in the first place. The solution to that problem isn't to ban TikTok, it's to create a regulatory framework where companies are obligated to follow certain rules. That's the thing: TikTok is basically state-sponsored, Apple/Google approved spyware. I don't have a link handy, but I remember reading that security researchers found the tiktok android binary had the capability to receive code remotely and execute it, meaning that the CCP can make millions of Android phones do whatever they want, especially if the code uploaded includes exploits. But how do you legislate against that sort of thing? Especially when Congress demonstrates how tech illiterate it is? It's also clearly being used to attack our society and infrastructure via children with poor judgement and little to fear from our criminal justice system. The platform does not not moderate in the slightest any of the various "tiktok challenges", most of which are dangerous to both the participant and general public, as well as causing lots of expensive damage. They could block or de-emphasize any number of the tags used in these "challenges", but instead they seem to boost them. So we have kids sticking forks into electrical sockets in their classrooms and destroying the bathrooms, breaking into Kias and joyriding them at insanely dangerous speeds, purposefully causing people to fall in the most dangerous way possible (kicking their feet out from under them so the brain's natural protective instincts can't protect the head from trauma)...the list just goes on and on. Did anyone notice that damn near every single one of these tiktok challenges seems almost perfectly tailored to cause a lot of damage or injury, and utilizes a population which essentially has nothing to fear from criminal repercussions thanks to our criminal justice system sealing their records once they come of age?
- mxkopy 4y ago
  > It's also clearly being used to attack our society and infrastructure via children with poor judgement and little to fear from our criminal justice system. If only we had a system which taught children how to make better decisions. Some sort of teachery, perhaps. Maybe we should focus on investing in such places before laying the blame on what is basically Vine 2.0.
- 27fingies 4y ago
  > the tiktok android binary had the capability to receive code remotely and execute it you mean like a browser?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - schmuelio 4y ago
    Like basically every browser-based app, so electron apps as well as most android apps. From my understanding iPhone apps work slightly differently but I sincerely doubt that it's not common place in that space as well. I'm not saying that it's definitely completely fine, but it _is_ really common in that space.
  - aardvarkr 4y ago
    Like an app that can update itself over the air
- killingtime74 4y ago
  Are there social media moderation laws? No? Then maybe start there. Because you can ban Tik Tok and tomorrow I can start TokTok and do the same thing legally. The only result is the government has been used to eliminate a competitor to Facebook, who cannot compete in the marketplace. Doesn't sound like protecting kids is the goal here.
  - tuwtuwtuwtuw 4y ago
    > Because you can ban Tik Tok and tomorrow I can start TokTok and do the same thing legally. For that to be a relevant argument you would have to amass some relevant user base. I wish you good luck.
skywal_l 4y ago
I don't know anything about this and on principle AOC is right in my optionion but Europe has the GDPR and other national legal privacy protection and Tik Tok is still being used in Europe. Do we know if Tik Tok[0] does anything different in Europe and the US? [0]Tik Tok and any other social media spyware in general.
- fancl20 4y ago
  Just do their best to comply the EU law so they can keep operating? https://www.reuters.com/technology/tiktok-ceo-eus-vestager-chatted-about-data-harvesting-spying-2023-01-10/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tiktok-ceo-eus-vestager-c...
- DuckFeathers 4y ago
  If the US bans it on national security grounds, there is NO WAY that any of the NATO countries will not ban it immediately. So 60% of European population will lose access. Then, they will recommend it to any other country that still wants to be friendly with the US... which means all of Europe (and most of the rest of the world) will ban it very soon. It's important to note that it's not the "spyware" that they are banning; it's a media that they don't have full control over that they are banning. Wikileaks, for example, will be banned as a part of this.
  - pokepim 4y ago
    [dead]
  - akie 4y ago
    > If the US bans it on national security grounds, there is NO WAY that any of the NATO countries will not ban it immediately. I'm sorry, but that's not how this works. These other NATO countries are independent countries with their own legislature and parliaments, many of them bound more by EU rules than by current US tendencies or laws. Sure, the US might try to pressure NATO countries to follow suit, and some of them might, but it's far from given.
    - 4y ago
staticman2 4y ago
How is this unprecedented? It's not legal for a U.S. person to do business with a North Korea company. If North Korea had social network companies, or someone in North Korea wanted to start one, they are already banned.
raxxorraxor 4y ago
To me this just sound like they are sad that they lost access to user information because users switched from domestic platforms.
- xeromal 4y ago
  TikTok's servers are still in the USA so the NSA still has the ability to snoop. I assume they're annoyed that after it hits US servers, it's exfilled into china.
  - baby 4y ago
    I don't think they care about that, I think they care about banning a Chinese app because China is not playing fair with American apps.
  - sharperguy 4y ago
    Sounds more like it's just all an excuse to ring in this bill that actually has nothing to do with TikTok. It's a mix of "kids these days", "our devices are brainwashing us" and "scary china" to stop you asking questions about what it's really about.
cultureswitch 4y ago
The entire problem is that the US lacks even the most basic privacy laws. The thing is, it seems some people want to allow US companies to abuse people's data, but not Chinese companies doing the exact same thing. That is, the aim of this legislation is purely strategic and has nothing to do with privacy.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  > The entire problem is that the US lacks even the most basic privacy laws. Probably because we never needed to. There hasn't been a major Internet company being used by western citizens until TikTok. The US government has been able get data whenever it wants it from the major tech companies because they've all been in the US - and there's been no reason to worry these companies are giving US data to foreign (especially non-friendly) governments.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    China isn't the reason the US needs basic privacy laws.
- potency 4y ago
  The US has privacy enshrined in the highest law of the land, the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution. The problem is that the courts have eroded the meaning and allowed loopholes in the name of "national security", which itself is a term that has been perverted.
somethingreen 4y ago
It has little to do with privacy - it's about adversary controlling a Skinner box which millions of your citizens have willingly put themselves in. It's just, how do you encode that into law? So privacy it is.

by elihu 4y ago

KennyBlanken 4y ago

> In this case, TikTok isn't even doing anything illegal as far as we know, because the United States has basically no data privacy laws that would be relevant here in the first place. The solution to that problem isn't to ban TikTok, it's to create a regulatory framework where companies are obligated to follow certain rules. That's the thing: TikTok is basically state-sponsored, Apple/Google approved spyware. I don't have a link handy, but I remember reading that security researchers found the tiktok android binary had the capability to receive code remotely and execute it, meaning that the CCP can make millions of Android phones do whatever they want, especially if the code uploaded includes exploits. But how do you legislate against that sort of thing? Especially when Congress demonstrates how tech illiterate it is? It's also clearly being used to attack our society and infrastructure via children with poor judgement and little to fear from our criminal justice system. The platform does not not moderate in the slightest any of the various "tiktok challenges", most of which are dangerous to both the participant and general public, as well as causing lots of expensive damage. They could block or de-emphasize any number of the tags used in these "challenges", but instead they seem to boost them. So we have kids sticking forks into electrical sockets in their classrooms and destroying the bathrooms, breaking into Kias and joyriding them at insanely dangerous speeds, purposefully causing people to fall in the most dangerous way possible (kicking their feet out from under them so the brain's natural protective instincts can't protect the head from trauma)...the list just goes on and on. Did anyone notice that damn near every single one of these tiktok challenges seems almost perfectly tailored to cause a lot of damage or injury, and utilizes a population which essentially has nothing to fear from criminal repercussions thanks to our criminal justice system sealing their records once they come of age?

mxkopy 4y ago
> It's also clearly being used to attack our society and infrastructure via children with poor judgement and little to fear from our criminal justice system. If only we had a system which taught children how to make better decisions. Some sort of teachery, perhaps. Maybe we should focus on investing in such places before laying the blame on what is basically Vine 2.0.
27fingies 4y ago
> the tiktok android binary had the capability to receive code remotely and execute it you mean like a browser?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- schmuelio 4y ago
  Like basically every browser-based app, so electron apps as well as most android apps. From my understanding iPhone apps work slightly differently but I sincerely doubt that it's not common place in that space as well. I'm not saying that it's definitely completely fine, but it _is_ really common in that space.
- aardvarkr 4y ago
  Like an app that can update itself over the air
killingtime74 4y ago
Are there social media moderation laws? No? Then maybe start there. Because you can ban Tik Tok and tomorrow I can start TokTok and do the same thing legally. The only result is the government has been used to eliminate a competitor to Facebook, who cannot compete in the marketplace. Doesn't sound like protecting kids is the goal here.
- tuwtuwtuwtuw 4y ago
  > Because you can ban Tik Tok and tomorrow I can start TokTok and do the same thing legally. For that to be a relevant argument you would have to amass some relevant user base. I wish you good luck.

skywal_l 4y ago

I don't know anything about this and on principle AOC is right in my optionion but Europe has the GDPR and other national legal privacy protection and Tik Tok is still being used in Europe. Do we know if Tik Tok[0] does anything different in Europe and the US? [0]Tik Tok and any other social media spyware in general.

fancl20 4y ago
Just do their best to comply the EU law so they can keep operating? https://www.reuters.com/technology/tiktok-ceo-eus-vestager-chatted-about-data-harvesting-spying-2023-01-10/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tiktok-ceo-eus-vestager-c...
DuckFeathers 4y ago
If the US bans it on national security grounds, there is NO WAY that any of the NATO countries will not ban it immediately. So 60% of European population will lose access. Then, they will recommend it to any other country that still wants to be friendly with the US... which means all of Europe (and most of the rest of the world) will ban it very soon. It's important to note that it's not the "spyware" that they are banning; it's a media that they don't have full control over that they are banning. Wikileaks, for example, will be banned as a part of this.
- pokepim 4y ago
  [dead]
- akie 4y ago
  > If the US bans it on national security grounds, there is NO WAY that any of the NATO countries will not ban it immediately. I'm sorry, but that's not how this works. These other NATO countries are independent countries with their own legislature and parliaments, many of them bound more by EU rules than by current US tendencies or laws. Sure, the US might try to pressure NATO countries to follow suit, and some of them might, but it's far from given.
  - 4y ago

staticman2 4y ago

How is this unprecedented? It's not legal for a U.S. person to do business with a North Korea company. If North Korea had social network companies, or someone in North Korea wanted to start one, they are already banned.

raxxorraxor 4y ago

To me this just sound like they are sad that they lost access to user information because users switched from domestic platforms.

xeromal 4y ago
TikTok's servers are still in the USA so the NSA still has the ability to snoop. I assume they're annoyed that after it hits US servers, it's exfilled into china.
- baby 4y ago
  I don't think they care about that, I think they care about banning a Chinese app because China is not playing fair with American apps.
- sharperguy 4y ago
  Sounds more like it's just all an excuse to ring in this bill that actually has nothing to do with TikTok. It's a mix of "kids these days", "our devices are brainwashing us" and "scary china" to stop you asking questions about what it's really about.

cultureswitch 4y ago

The entire problem is that the US lacks even the most basic privacy laws. The thing is, it seems some people want to allow US companies to abuse people's data, but not Chinese companies doing the exact same thing. That is, the aim of this legislation is purely strategic and has nothing to do with privacy.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
> The entire problem is that the US lacks even the most basic privacy laws. Probably because we never needed to. There hasn't been a major Internet company being used by western citizens until TikTok. The US government has been able get data whenever it wants it from the major tech companies because they've all been in the US - and there's been no reason to worry these companies are giving US data to foreign (especially non-friendly) governments.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  China isn't the reason the US needs basic privacy laws.
potency 4y ago
The US has privacy enshrined in the highest law of the land, the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution. The problem is that the courts have eroded the meaning and allowed loopholes in the name of "national security", which itself is a term that has been perverted.

somethingreen 4y ago

It has little to do with privacy - it's about adversary controlling a Skinner box which millions of your citizens have willingly put themselves in. It's just, how do you encode that into law? So privacy it is.