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Windows 11 KB5023778 update adds promotions to the Start menu

301 points by nazgulsenpai 4y ago

IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
To whomever told me about windows update blocker ("WUP") on a prior microsoft 11 HN thread, thank you !
phone8675309 4y ago
Don't they already do this with some games and services in Windows 10? Is this just a supercharged version of what happens in Windows 10? Definitely guarantees that the fTPM stays off on all of my machines so they can't be force upgraded.
- tyingq 4y ago
  I think the new part is putting them on the start menu versus things like a widget bar or dedicated notifications area that you can easily totally ignore or turn off. It's dumping clutter into things like "shut down" where you aren't expecting clutter.
- Arnavion 4y ago
  Heh, I wish I could enable the fTPM in my motherboard so I could use it as a regular TPM under Linux, but Asrock fucked up the ACPI tables something fierce so Linux can't use it.
AshamedCaptain 4y ago
Every couple of weeks Windows shows a FULL SCREEN advertisement during boot/login which requires several clicks to get rid of. They advertise everything starting from Microsoft Accounts, OneDrive, MS Edge ( https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/11/15/windows-10-is-now-nagging-users-with-microsoft-edge-recommendations/ https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/11/15/windows-10-is-now-n... ) , Windows 11 ( https://mspoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/1670139498_windows_10_to_11_oobe_update.jpg https://mspoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/167013949... ) , and a long etc. This is not a small advert in a small corner of the start menu. These are full-screen adverts that interrupt your use of the computer until you click. What on Earth could they possibly do now to top that ?
- metalliqaz 4y ago
  Strange, I have never seen those ads. Are they restricted to the Home editions? I use Enterprise.
  - grujicd 4y ago
    It's on Professional as well.
    - wvenable 4y ago
      I'm on professional and while I have seen this after a major update, it's definitely not every couple of weeks. Maybe once a year.
  - uxp100 4y ago
    I have never seen them either, i was surprised to hear people talking about them on windows 10. I have a pretty aggressive hosts file blocking stuff, plus ran some supposedly telemetry removing commands in the past, so I guess that must be it.
- rolph 4y ago
  start making them into onboarding installs is one think off the top of my head.
  - damnesian 4y ago
    I'm surprised that is not already happening. Plenty of precedent for that out there.
- otikik 4y ago
  Each one of those ads is a free ad for Apple and Linux. “If you had Apple, you wouldn’t have to endure this!”
  - smnrchrds 4y ago
    I wish Apple was actually good in that regard. I ended up uninstalling Apple Stocks app from my Mac and iPhone because of all the terrible ads. The ads I saw were even worse than this: https://images.app.goo.gl/dVbDoBuScVzp3uAg9 https://images.app.goo.gl/dVbDoBuScVzp3uAg9
jdlyga 4y ago
Windows 11 has already lost the marketing battle. They should have kept the version number at 10 and gone with a "ui refresh" update. People aren't going to switch until Windows 12 is released.
- samhuk 4y ago
  They will likely just discontinue Windows 10 to force everybody onto 11 in good time; like they tried to do with Windows 7. I'm on Windows 10 at the moment and no way am I upgrading. From what I've seen and heard so far, 11 is an absolute festering nightmare.
  - grujicd 4y ago
    Windows 10 support ends on October 2025, as of things stand now.
    - MattPalmer1086 4y ago
      And that's fine with me. The only reason I keep windows around is because I use VSTs in digital audio software. I don't need to connect it to the internet so there's no security issues. In maybe 5 years I will have to think about what I do with it all...
      - thewebcount 4y ago
        > I use VSTs in digital audio software. I don't need to connect it to the internet Really? All the audio plug-ins I can find nowadays have network licensing. Often they come with a really irritating installer installer. You can't just download the damn plug-in you want. You first have to install some bloated app that then allows you to download the installers for all of the company's products. Then when you do, it's tied to some account and phones home every time you launch it. If you're lucky it works a few times not connecting, but after awhile it gives up and won't run until it can verify your license again. It's getting to the point where I just hate using software, and I'm a software engineer who loves writing it! I just can't stand all this unnecessary friction we keep adding so someone can make a few extra cents.
eugenekolo 4y ago
I feel like I'm on crazy pills when I complain about these things and all the other intrusions Windows pops up at me every time I use the operating system... Yet, the people who use it (mostly gamers), seem to think it's all fine and the operating system is great.
- klodolph 4y ago
  If you’re a gamer, how do you interact with the computer? You launch Steam, see a bunch of ads, launch Epic Game Store or GOG Galaxy and see a bunch of ads, so why wouldn’t you see ads in the start menu? Hell, you have to log in to an account for the “GeForce Experience”. Just to keep your graphics card drivers automatically updated. As soon as you’re in a game, the game is full-screen. You’re not switching apps, you’re not creating anything, you’re just consuming content, and ads are a part of how we consume content these days.
  - kderbe 4y ago
    > you have to log in to an account for the “GeForce Experience”. Just to keep your graphics card drivers automatically updated. TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall makes it easy to automatically update Nvidia drivers without any login, and also to remove any Nvidia application bloat you don't want. (I exclude GFE and only install the control panel, for example.)
    - crtasm 4y ago
      I was using something similar to that, then recently found I can update with chocolatey https://community.chocolatey.org/packages/nvidia-display-driver https://community.chocolatey.org/packages/nvidia-display-dri...
  - troymc 4y ago
    It would be nice if there was a univesal ad blocker that worked everywhere...
    - squarefoot 4y ago
capableweb 4y ago
Great, I just updated to Windows 11 in hope of getting WSL2 + Arch Linux + CUDA + Docker but it didn't pan out in the end, had to move back to proper Linux for that piece of work. But seems I'm stuck with Windows 11 now and additionally, the running applications that show up in the taskbar suddenly can only show icons, no text allowed. I started to regret my decision to upgrade, and this just adds insult to injury.
- btgeekboy 4y ago
  Didn’t applications used to be able to show their titles in the taskbar under W11 if you change the taskbar settings? Did that go away, or am I imagining that ability?
  - Ruthalas 4y ago
    That was an option in windows 10, but is not present in windows 11 (last I checked anyway). It's very important to me. :/
  - MikusR 4y ago
    It was never in Windows 11. Because the Start/taskbar are repurposed from twice failed Windows 10x. An os that initially was made for a portable small dual screen device with each screen dedicated to a single open application.
- hu3 4y ago
  This reverts Windows 11 back to taskbar sanity from Windows 7/10 era and gets rid of ads as a bonus: https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher
- vxNsr 4y ago
  You can roll back within 10 days of upgrade. My work pc was nagging me to upgrade so I did, after about 20 minutes I realized the productivity loss wasn’t worth whatever supposed benefits IT would see from having everyone on one OS so I rolled back. And thankfully bec it’s not domain joined, just MDMd I can pause updates and block windows11 from ever coming down.
jjice 4y ago
Don't they still charge a $100+ license for Windows? I have Windows 10 for games, but I haven't booted into it in months since Steam has been fantastic on Linux (relative to it's past, it has some ways to go). I'll be the classic Linux desktop optimist: the improvements over the last four years along have been fantastic and I really hope for a future when it can meet everyone's needs. My OS shouldn't advertise to me. It shouldn't sell my data, or shouldn't do anything like that. It especially shouldn't harass me to log into the owning company's account. I shouldn't need any internet account to just use the OS (missing features relates the said account is obviously reasonable).
- whalesalad 4y ago
  They do and it is absurd. I bought Win11 Pro from here for about $20, the price has since gone up a bit: https://www.vip-urcdkey.com/key/microsoft-windows-11-pro-oem-cd-key-global.html https://www.vip-urcdkey.com/key/microsoft-windows-11-pro-oem...
  - michaelmrose 4y ago
    This does not look at all legitimate
    - whalesalad 4y ago
      I’ve purchased a handful of keys over the years. It’s legit.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        They’re OEM keys which are against EULA to use in this way. It might work now, but they could ban those keys later if they want to.
        Bellend 4y ago
        Serious question, unless you are some kind of business, does anyone fear the EULA for anything software?
uni_baconcat 4y ago
I guess the trend that Microsoft put more adverts in Windows is unstoppable.
tonymet 4y ago
anyone know the option to turn this off? yesterday's post on disabling news / entertainment content was great.
Apreche 4y ago
On the fresh install of Windows I do see some ads and ad-adjacent things. But once I disable all of them, that's it. No more. I haven't seen anything at all like this since install day a couple years back. My guess is that people aren't going through and disabling everything. Also, people aren't using piholes which are probably blocking everything that can't be disabled.
- ashwagary 4y ago
  >On the fresh install of Windows I do see some ads and ad-adjacent things. I'm curious, did you pay for the installer or did it come bundled with a device?
  - charrondev 4y ago
    I can report the same experience. It was a paid for copy of Windows 10 Pro that I upgraded for to Windows 11
  - Apreche 4y ago
    I bought a key to Windows 7 pro long ago and attached it to my Microsoft account. It upgraded to Windows 10 and then 11 for free. When I want to install Windows I just use the official tool to create install media on a USB stick. Then I login with my Microsoft account during the install process. That's it.
- pkulak 4y ago
  Yes, it is the user who is wrong. :D
- rwalle 4y ago
  "disable all of them" Yes you are correct, but Microsoft is hiding these options in at least 5 different places, and you need to follow a tutorial to disable them all. Not to mention new updates add new ads, like this one or a recent one that shows search box in the task bar. This is only Windows. If you use Edge, there are 10 other things Microsoft forces on you, recently sidebar, "Discover" and "writing assistance". Some of these, like "Microsoft Editor" of "writing assistance", sends data to Microsoft (written clearly in the settings), which could include trade secret. Well it's true you can turn these off, but they should never be turned on by default in the first place.
nice_byte 4y ago
from the title, I thought these would be ads for third-party products. it actually is just prodding to install/use ms's own stuff, so it's a nothingburger.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  Ads are ads. It doesn't matter if they're for third party products or not.
  - nice_byte 4y ago
    I don't see anyone throwing a hissy fit about the "finish setting up your iPhone" prompts. I also don't see anyone worried that you can't uninstall YouTube or chrome from your pixel phone. However, here I see MS getting flak for something every other company has already been doing for a long time.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      I can't speak to iPhones, but people have been complaining about preinstalled apps that you can't uninstall on Android phones for a very, very long time. > I see MS getting flak for something every other company has already been doing for a long time. Yes, but every other company gets flak for it, too. They're just not the topic of this particular thread.
krzrak 4y ago
That's weird, I have Windows 11 Home installed by the computer manufacturer but I don't recall having any ads. Is that because I disabled them at the start? (don't remember) or maybe because I have pihole in my network? Anyway - no ads for me.
- flyinghamster 4y ago
  Any time something like this comes up, there's always people it doesn't happen to. It makes me wonder if some random fraction of users get off the hook just to gaslight us.
  - Bellend 4y ago
    I'm the same but I don't use PiHole. (I am in UK. Does geography matter?). If I seen ads in my windows start menu, I'd suspect I have a cracked windows copy with a 3rd party spamming me. It's literally that far fetched to me. I always use Pro though as well...
    - ducknalddon 4y ago
      I'm in the UK and I get ads. With or without PiHole doesn't seem to matter.
- kcartlidge 4y ago
  Same here. I bought (UK) Windows 7 Pro (retail) many years ago, tied to an MS account for licensing. Free upgrade to Windows 8, then Windows 10, followed eventually by my current Windows 11 Pro. No ads in the OS that I've ever noticed, and the minimal pre-installs (Candy Crush, Office 365 etc) are trivially deleted upon OS installation. That's 3 upgrades of Windows at no extra cost, and all 4 versions without advertising significant enough for me to remember seeing. And to be honest, even though I'm about 70% a Mac user due to the M1 hardware, and maybe 10% Linux, Windows remains very productive for me (more so than the others) so it's been a bargain. I appreciate opinions vary, but despite occasional comments in HN about Stockholm Syndrome or not knowing what the alternatives are like I personally enjoy Windows. Yes, even Windows 11. And not just for games.
IceHegel 4y ago
The fact that Microsoft is the 2nd largest company in the world and enjoys a very close relationship with the Federal Government makes it even worse. Very cyberpunk, very dystopian. Overall, this kind of thing makes the species worse off.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  Its funny how rampant greed does that and yet we've all just kinda decided its the best possible way to run a society.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > we’ve all just kinda decided “we’ve all” kind of masks the way those who benefit the most from that decision are disproportionately influential it making it, both initially and on an ongoing basis,
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
      Sure, but I mean, spend some time around HN and you'll find plenty of people defending hypercapitalism as obviously the best way for things to be. Hell, not long ago I had someone challenge me on whether or not exploiting people for profit, in particular in health care, was wrong or not.
      - 000ooo000 4y ago
        HN likes to blow wind up their own arse about the quality of discourse here but it's just Reddit without the memes/jokes.
twawaaay 4y ago
It is death of an operating system. Before our eyes. Microsoft is trying desperately to squeeze a bit more cash out of it but the failing culture within Microsoft is unable to recognise they are driving users off their own product. I already got fed up enough that I basically banned Windows at home and I am impatiently waiting to kill one last Windows box. It is our gaming machine that is generally available to entire household of 5 (3 adults and 2 kids). All other machines (we have 7 other machines, 6 laptops and a desktop) are either Windows laptops converted to Linux or new Macbooks and it seems we will only have more MacOS now that Apple got a bit more sane with their hardware choices. I may leave one Windows instance running in Proxmox just in case if somebody needs it.
- twosdai 4y ago
  I've been gaming on pop os for a little while now. It's pretty good honestly. I would give it a shot.
  - nazgulsenpai 4y ago
    I've been gaming on Void Linux of all things since November and it's run everything that isn't just flat out incompatible with Linux (anti-cheat doesn't allow, etc). Sometimes I think it sucks that I can't play X because the anti-cheat won't allow it to start, then I remember it's a kernel level driver I cross my fingers and hope isn't doing anything nefarious and feel better.
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    Same - I switched to Pop!_OS last year and after a decade or two of being disappointed with the claims that Linux gaming had come a long way, I'm very impressed with Valve's Proton compatibility.
- pianoben 4y ago
  For what it's worth, a ton of people inside of MSFT are opposed to these changes. The few responsible for them are answering to overwhelming pressure from the Finance side. Every time something like this ships out, guaranteed just about every CVP fields angry/annoyed/exasperated complaints about it.
bakugo 4y ago
I use 11 Enterprise and don't have to deal with most of these annoyances thankfully, I don't know if I'd be able to tolerate it if I did.
1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
If a third party other than Microsoft remotely administered something like this it would probably be labeled a "botnet". No doubt the amount of data that Microsoft exfiltrates about Windows users is at least as much as any "botnet" would, probably much more. Customers have about as much control over what Microsoft decides it wants to do as they do over so-called botnets. As an original Windows 3.11 user (LAN-only, no internet), it's amazing to see how far from sanity things have gone. Computer owners born into this new world of always-on, uncontrollable remote administration would have little reason to know any different. (HN readers or similar being an exception.) NB. I use the term "remote administration" in a general sense, not only in the "remote desktop" sense. Wikipedia's definition is "any method of controlling a computer from a remote location". For example, automatically connecting to a remote computer, downloading, installing and running code that controls the computer, without any user intervention.
- flyinghamster 4y ago
  Network hardware, too. Just look at how many access points and routers insist on you managing your network through the clown. Yeah, hand the keys to your kingdom to a third party for the "convenience" of managing your network anywhere in the world from your phone. No, I don't WANT to manage my network from a phone, save via a VPN into said network.
pkilgore 4y ago
How outrageous! Let me close the Apple Music window for this App I can't uninstall, and that popup that says I can't save my notes unless I have iCloud, and look past the automatically included Apple News and Apple Financed widgets in the notification panel I accidentally opened to go open a browser that defaults to showing me the shortcuts for several third party companies whose services I do not use to get on the internet to gloat about my superior choice. /s [For the record, all of this is bad, and I constantly wonder why my government thinks there isn't a monopoly problem here, I'm just kinda amused how much hate windows gets in particular, especially since I strongly suspect disabling this is a registry change away, which is not the case for many things I dislike about the computer I am using to type this.]
- mooman219 4y ago
  I was thinking the same thing. Apple berates the user quite a bit to onboard to iCloud and other services; the screenshot of the new promotion looks about in line with that. If I was a Microsoft PM I'd just pitch the menu as "Apple has the same thing and users are complacent", and get sign off in no time. I think this is fine battle to pick, I have OneDrive uninstalled on my Windows machine, but I think it's a bit silly a lot of users on here are fine with functionally the same ad somewhere else, I don't want to be berated anywhere on any OS.
  - JohnTHaller 4y ago
    macOS keeps a permanent 'important' notification in Settings if you don't setup iCloud. I see it every week when I use the iMac in the theater I help out at.
    - glayciar 4y ago
      Really? I don't see this in Ventura. I don't see the Windows stuff either so maybe I'm special somehow!
- nice_byte 4y ago
  Yup. I don't understand why people choose to rag on Microsoft when literally everyone else who has something to sell you besides the OS itself, does this. Maybe it's because Windows is from the era when MS was not a services company, and people, by force of inertia, expect windows to continue behaving as if MS is not a services company.
sampa 4y ago
I'll just remind everybody that on Linux we have VFIO, where you can passthrough your videocard to Windows virtual-machine, and have almost native gaming. As a big plus, your Win VM's disk C:\ is stored in a file, which you can backup and restore any time you want and not care about viruses/trojans/malware.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  > As a big plus, your Win VM's disk C:\ is stored in a file, which you can backup and restore any time you want and not care about viruses/trojans/malware. A little-known feature of the Windows bootloader is that it can actually load VMDK disk images from NTFS drives and boot them. I still wouldn't use that for backups though, there are more practical incremental backup solutions for that.
- Hamcha 4y ago
  I may look into that, especially now that I've upgraded to a platform where I have both dedicated and integrated graphics. My current worries are: - I have a VR headset, how much work and how functional is it to use under a VM? I heard you'd have to passthrough the entire USB controller which is.. not great - Anticheat still isnt happy about VMs right? That would cut a couple games I'm currently into - How annoying is it to share files? Affinity Photo/Designer not running well in Wine/Proton is one of my blockers to move to Linux, and even if I virtualized I fear it might be incredibly tedious to use because of them being in a VM (unless modern KVM/Vbox/VMWare has flawless copy/paste sync etc)
  - sampa 4y ago
    1) most motherboards have several USB controllers, so passing through one of them is a no-brainer. then you just plug a VR into on of those ports 2) mostly correct 3) I set up Samba, so /mnt/folder/ in Linux is mounted as a connected network drive F:\ in Win VM. Works for me.
  - pyr0hu 4y ago
    I've tried passing through VR with VFIO, but it did not work properly (Quest2). As soon as I've activated AirLink (with cable) I could only see my hands and a black screen. AirWith on WiFi straight up did not even find the desktop after the first connection attempt. I just reverted to dualboxing.
kdkdk 4y ago
Let‘s gooo I want all the corporate companies to regret ever having used windows. They will be so vender locked that they will have to see advertisements every 10 minutes to continue using it without extra payments.
onewheeltom 4y ago
“The beatings will continue until morale improves”
causality0 4y ago
Remember when you got excited to install the new version of Windows?
- rolenthedeep 4y ago
  I remember staying up super late on a school night frantically refreshing the windows 7 beta page. IIRC, they only let a limited number of people download a copy, and I just managed to snag one before they ran out. That was the last time that windows caused me anything approaching joy.
- Tommstein 4y ago
  No.
bob1029 4y ago
It is looking like I may be going back to windows server this year. Someone on HN helpfully reminded me that my VS/MSDN subscription includes access to this already. I am in a really uncomfortable spot of mostly disliking all flavors of operating system now. I don't really like to play games anymore and linux is something I can only enjoy with unlimited free time. MacOS is quickly becoming my favorite "around the house" OS, but I can't stand to do technical work on this setup for some reason - I'll just RDP into my workstation if I'm on the couch.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  I recently started a Windows Server VM in AWS to try something out. Upon first RDP login I got a laggy (because it's a web-based piece of shit and not actual native UI which RDP can accelerate) full-screen ad for Edge or something similar.
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
If there was a free version of windows with ads and a "pay $99 to get rid of everything", then sure, understandable. But you pay for the licence (well, through an oem usually), and still get ads... well, that's really assholeish. But maybe it's the right thing to do for them, so we'll get some more diversity in the OS space, and soon there might really be a "year of linux on the desktop".
tb_technical 4y ago
I can't wait for shenanigans like this to make Linux more popular
- midoridensha 4y ago
  I've been waiting for this for decades, and it hasn't changed much. Linux is more popular than it was in 1998, I'll admit, and it's pretty standard in some dev environments (depending on your industry), but it's far from taking over desktop computing. As complacent as most users are, MS could demand one of their kidneys and they'd give it up, grumbling, just so they can keep using Windows (usually to play a game).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
7373737373 4y ago
Is there a website that compiles all dark patterns Microsuck has ever applied?
CommanderData 4y ago
We need legislation fast.
bigboy12 4y ago
Why would anyone use windows??? Ads in the os?? No thanks.
riffic 4y ago
what a garbage ecosystem and it's never not been a dump, that's the best part!
w_for_wumbo 4y ago
The interesting thing is that this is actually a GREAT promotion for the idea that Microsoft is flexing its Monopoly like power, and needs to be broken up yet again.
NayamAmarshe 4y ago
Thanks for making Linux look better, Microsoft!
apatheticonion 4y ago
Windows 10 and 11 have been the single biggest factors pushing me onto Linux as a daily driver. I currently dual boot my desktop, spending my time 50/50 between Linux and Windows. Windows mainly for gaming, Linux for work (and some gaming). The biggest annoyance for me in Linux is that Chrome is a bit janky. I am running Fedora with (as close as possible to vanilla) Gnome. I wish Chrome would just use GTK4 and integrate as seamlessly as Firefox does. I use it with Wayland support and using the GTK theme option in the menu - but it's still a while away. Edge is better but it's still a bit odd. Seeing the progress made in the Gnome project and Gnome 44 also being a great release - I have high hopes that my Linux desktop will be a better user experience than Windows or MacOS soon.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >I have high hopes that my Linux desktop will be a better user experience than Windows or MacOS soon. I guess this depends on your definition of "better". I'd say an OS that doesn't force me to view ads is already "better" than one that does.
rsolva 4y ago
Who would have thought that it was Microsoft itself that would make the final push to bring on the year of the Linux destop!
flohofwoe 4y ago
> Microsoft also warned today that after starting next month, there wouldn't be any other preview cumulative updates for supported Windows 10 versions. Well, what a relief. All the more reason to stick to Win10 as long as possible ;)
dusted 4y ago
Is there a paid version of the product that's add free?
Thorentis 4y ago
Been on Linux Mint for 4 years now, and never looked back. Windows is dead to me.
i386 4y ago
Is Microsoft short of cash or something?
reset-password 4y ago
Windows 11 is a thinly-veiled state-sponsored malware masquerading as a productivity tool.
akagusu 4y ago
Can we classify Windows as adware now?

301 points by nazgulsenpai 4y ago

To whomever told me about windows update blocker ("WUP") on a prior microsoft 11 HN thread, thank you !

Don't they already do this with some games and services in Windows 10? Is this just a supercharged version of what happens in Windows 10? Definitely guarantees that the fTPM stays off on all of my machines so they can't be force upgraded.

tyingq 4y ago
I think the new part is putting them on the start menu versus things like a widget bar or dedicated notifications area that you can easily totally ignore or turn off. It's dumping clutter into things like "shut down" where you aren't expecting clutter.
Arnavion 4y ago
Heh, I wish I could enable the fTPM in my motherboard so I could use it as a regular TPM under Linux, but Asrock fucked up the ACPI tables something fierce so Linux can't use it.

AshamedCaptain 4y ago

Every couple of weeks Windows shows a FULL SCREEN advertisement during boot/login which requires several clicks to get rid of. They advertise everything starting from Microsoft Accounts, OneDrive, MS Edge ( https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/11/15/windows-10-is-now-nagging-users-with-microsoft-edge-recommendations/ https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/11/15/windows-10-is-now-n... ) , Windows 11 ( https://mspoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/1670139498_windows_10_to_11_oobe_update.jpg https://mspoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/167013949... ) , and a long etc. This is not a small advert in a small corner of the start menu. These are full-screen adverts that interrupt your use of the computer until you click. What on Earth could they possibly do now to top that ?

metalliqaz 4y ago
Strange, I have never seen those ads. Are they restricted to the Home editions? I use Enterprise.
- grujicd 4y ago
  It's on Professional as well.
  - wvenable 4y ago
    I'm on professional and while I have seen this after a major update, it's definitely not every couple of weeks. Maybe once a year.
- uxp100 4y ago
  I have never seen them either, i was surprised to hear people talking about them on windows 10. I have a pretty aggressive hosts file blocking stuff, plus ran some supposedly telemetry removing commands in the past, so I guess that must be it.
rolph 4y ago
start making them into onboarding installs is one think off the top of my head.
- damnesian 4y ago
  I'm surprised that is not already happening. Plenty of precedent for that out there.
otikik 4y ago
Each one of those ads is a free ad for Apple and Linux. “If you had Apple, you wouldn’t have to endure this!”
- smnrchrds 4y ago
  I wish Apple was actually good in that regard. I ended up uninstalling Apple Stocks app from my Mac and iPhone because of all the terrible ads. The ads I saw were even worse than this: https://images.app.goo.gl/dVbDoBuScVzp3uAg9 https://images.app.goo.gl/dVbDoBuScVzp3uAg9

jdlyga 4y ago

Windows 11 has already lost the marketing battle. They should have kept the version number at 10 and gone with a "ui refresh" update. People aren't going to switch until Windows 12 is released.

samhuk 4y ago
They will likely just discontinue Windows 10 to force everybody onto 11 in good time; like they tried to do with Windows 7. I'm on Windows 10 at the moment and no way am I upgrading. From what I've seen and heard so far, 11 is an absolute festering nightmare.
- grujicd 4y ago
  Windows 10 support ends on October 2025, as of things stand now.
  - MattPalmer1086 4y ago
    And that's fine with me. The only reason I keep windows around is because I use VSTs in digital audio software. I don't need to connect it to the internet so there's no security issues. In maybe 5 years I will have to think about what I do with it all...
    - thewebcount 4y ago
      > I use VSTs in digital audio software. I don't need to connect it to the internet Really? All the audio plug-ins I can find nowadays have network licensing. Often they come with a really irritating installer installer. You can't just download the damn plug-in you want. You first have to install some bloated app that then allows you to download the installers for all of the company's products. Then when you do, it's tied to some account and phones home every time you launch it. If you're lucky it works a few times not connecting, but after awhile it gives up and won't run until it can verify your license again. It's getting to the point where I just hate using software, and I'm a software engineer who loves writing it! I just can't stand all this unnecessary friction we keep adding so someone can make a few extra cents.

eugenekolo 4y ago

I feel like I'm on crazy pills when I complain about these things and all the other intrusions Windows pops up at me every time I use the operating system... Yet, the people who use it (mostly gamers), seem to think it's all fine and the operating system is great.

klodolph 4y ago
If you’re a gamer, how do you interact with the computer? You launch Steam, see a bunch of ads, launch Epic Game Store or GOG Galaxy and see a bunch of ads, so why wouldn’t you see ads in the start menu? Hell, you have to log in to an account for the “GeForce Experience”. Just to keep your graphics card drivers automatically updated. As soon as you’re in a game, the game is full-screen. You’re not switching apps, you’re not creating anything, you’re just consuming content, and ads are a part of how we consume content these days.
- kderbe 4y ago
  > you have to log in to an account for the “GeForce Experience”. Just to keep your graphics card drivers automatically updated. TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall makes it easy to automatically update Nvidia drivers without any login, and also to remove any Nvidia application bloat you don't want. (I exclude GFE and only install the control panel, for example.)
  - crtasm 4y ago
    I was using something similar to that, then recently found I can update with chocolatey https://community.chocolatey.org/packages/nvidia-display-driver https://community.chocolatey.org/packages/nvidia-display-dri...
- troymc 4y ago
  It would be nice if there was a univesal ad blocker that worked everywhere...
  - squarefoot 4y ago

capableweb 4y ago

Great, I just updated to Windows 11 in hope of getting WSL2 + Arch Linux + CUDA + Docker but it didn't pan out in the end, had to move back to proper Linux for that piece of work. But seems I'm stuck with Windows 11 now and additionally, the running applications that show up in the taskbar suddenly can only show icons, no text allowed. I started to regret my decision to upgrade, and this just adds insult to injury.

btgeekboy 4y ago
Didn’t applications used to be able to show their titles in the taskbar under W11 if you change the taskbar settings? Did that go away, or am I imagining that ability?
- Ruthalas 4y ago
  That was an option in windows 10, but is not present in windows 11 (last I checked anyway). It's very important to me. :/
- MikusR 4y ago
  It was never in Windows 11. Because the Start/taskbar are repurposed from twice failed Windows 10x. An os that initially was made for a portable small dual screen device with each screen dedicated to a single open application.
hu3 4y ago
This reverts Windows 11 back to taskbar sanity from Windows 7/10 era and gets rid of ads as a bonus: https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher
vxNsr 4y ago
You can roll back within 10 days of upgrade. My work pc was nagging me to upgrade so I did, after about 20 minutes I realized the productivity loss wasn’t worth whatever supposed benefits IT would see from having everyone on one OS so I rolled back. And thankfully bec it’s not domain joined, just MDMd I can pause updates and block windows11 from ever coming down.

jjice 4y ago

Don't they still charge a $100+ license for Windows? I have Windows 10 for games, but I haven't booted into it in months since Steam has been fantastic on Linux (relative to it's past, it has some ways to go). I'll be the classic Linux desktop optimist: the improvements over the last four years along have been fantastic and I really hope for a future when it can meet everyone's needs. My OS shouldn't advertise to me. It shouldn't sell my data, or shouldn't do anything like that. It especially shouldn't harass me to log into the owning company's account. I shouldn't need any internet account to just use the OS (missing features relates the said account is obviously reasonable).

whalesalad 4y ago
They do and it is absurd. I bought Win11 Pro from here for about $20, the price has since gone up a bit: https://www.vip-urcdkey.com/key/microsoft-windows-11-pro-oem-cd-key-global.html https://www.vip-urcdkey.com/key/microsoft-windows-11-pro-oem...
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  This does not look at all legitimate
  - whalesalad 4y ago
    I’ve purchased a handful of keys over the years. It’s legit.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      They’re OEM keys which are against EULA to use in this way. It might work now, but they could ban those keys later if they want to.
      - Bellend 4y ago
        Serious question, unless you are some kind of business, does anyone fear the EULA for anything software?

uni_baconcat 4y ago

I guess the trend that Microsoft put more adverts in Windows is unstoppable.

tonymet 4y ago

anyone know the option to turn this off? yesterday's post on disabling news / entertainment content was great.

Apreche 4y ago

On the fresh install of Windows I do see some ads and ad-adjacent things. But once I disable all of them, that's it. No more. I haven't seen anything at all like this since install day a couple years back. My guess is that people aren't going through and disabling everything. Also, people aren't using piholes which are probably blocking everything that can't be disabled.

ashwagary 4y ago
>On the fresh install of Windows I do see some ads and ad-adjacent things. I'm curious, did you pay for the installer or did it come bundled with a device?
- charrondev 4y ago
  I can report the same experience. It was a paid for copy of Windows 10 Pro that I upgraded for to Windows 11
- Apreche 4y ago
  I bought a key to Windows 7 pro long ago and attached it to my Microsoft account. It upgraded to Windows 10 and then 11 for free. When I want to install Windows I just use the official tool to create install media on a USB stick. Then I login with my Microsoft account during the install process. That's it.
pkulak 4y ago
Yes, it is the user who is wrong. :D
rwalle 4y ago
"disable all of them" Yes you are correct, but Microsoft is hiding these options in at least 5 different places, and you need to follow a tutorial to disable them all. Not to mention new updates add new ads, like this one or a recent one that shows search box in the task bar. This is only Windows. If you use Edge, there are 10 other things Microsoft forces on you, recently sidebar, "Discover" and "writing assistance". Some of these, like "Microsoft Editor" of "writing assistance", sends data to Microsoft (written clearly in the settings), which could include trade secret. Well it's true you can turn these off, but they should never be turned on by default in the first place.

nice_byte 4y ago

from the title, I thought these would be ads for third-party products. it actually is just prodding to install/use ms's own stuff, so it's a nothingburger.

JohnFen 4y ago
Ads are ads. It doesn't matter if they're for third party products or not.
- nice_byte 4y ago
  I don't see anyone throwing a hissy fit about the "finish setting up your iPhone" prompts. I also don't see anyone worried that you can't uninstall YouTube or chrome from your pixel phone. However, here I see MS getting flak for something every other company has already been doing for a long time.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    I can't speak to iPhones, but people have been complaining about preinstalled apps that you can't uninstall on Android phones for a very, very long time. > I see MS getting flak for something every other company has already been doing for a long time. Yes, but every other company gets flak for it, too. They're just not the topic of this particular thread.

krzrak 4y ago

That's weird, I have Windows 11 Home installed by the computer manufacturer but I don't recall having any ads. Is that because I disabled them at the start? (don't remember) or maybe because I have pihole in my network? Anyway - no ads for me.

flyinghamster 4y ago
Any time something like this comes up, there's always people it doesn't happen to. It makes me wonder if some random fraction of users get off the hook just to gaslight us.
- Bellend 4y ago
  I'm the same but I don't use PiHole. (I am in UK. Does geography matter?). If I seen ads in my windows start menu, I'd suspect I have a cracked windows copy with a 3rd party spamming me. It's literally that far fetched to me. I always use Pro though as well...
  - ducknalddon 4y ago
    I'm in the UK and I get ads. With or without PiHole doesn't seem to matter.
kcartlidge 4y ago
Same here. I bought (UK) Windows 7 Pro (retail) many years ago, tied to an MS account for licensing. Free upgrade to Windows 8, then Windows 10, followed eventually by my current Windows 11 Pro. No ads in the OS that I've ever noticed, and the minimal pre-installs (Candy Crush, Office 365 etc) are trivially deleted upon OS installation. That's 3 upgrades of Windows at no extra cost, and all 4 versions without advertising significant enough for me to remember seeing. And to be honest, even though I'm about 70% a Mac user due to the M1 hardware, and maybe 10% Linux, Windows remains very productive for me (more so than the others) so it's been a bargain. I appreciate opinions vary, but despite occasional comments in HN about Stockholm Syndrome or not knowing what the alternatives are like I personally enjoy Windows. Yes, even Windows 11. And not just for games.

IceHegel 4y ago

The fact that Microsoft is the 2nd largest company in the world and enjoys a very close relationship with the Federal Government makes it even worse. Very cyberpunk, very dystopian. Overall, this kind of thing makes the species worse off.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
Its funny how rampant greed does that and yet we've all just kinda decided its the best possible way to run a society.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > we’ve all just kinda decided “we’ve all” kind of masks the way those who benefit the most from that decision are disproportionately influential it making it, both initially and on an ongoing basis,
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    Sure, but I mean, spend some time around HN and you'll find plenty of people defending hypercapitalism as obviously the best way for things to be. Hell, not long ago I had someone challenge me on whether or not exploiting people for profit, in particular in health care, was wrong or not.
    - 000ooo000 4y ago
      HN likes to blow wind up their own arse about the quality of discourse here but it's just Reddit without the memes/jokes.

twawaaay 4y ago

It is death of an operating system. Before our eyes. Microsoft is trying desperately to squeeze a bit more cash out of it but the failing culture within Microsoft is unable to recognise they are driving users off their own product. I already got fed up enough that I basically banned Windows at home and I am impatiently waiting to kill one last Windows box. It is our gaming machine that is generally available to entire household of 5 (3 adults and 2 kids). All other machines (we have 7 other machines, 6 laptops and a desktop) are either Windows laptops converted to Linux or new Macbooks and it seems we will only have more MacOS now that Apple got a bit more sane with their hardware choices. I may leave one Windows instance running in Proxmox just in case if somebody needs it.

twosdai 4y ago
I've been gaming on pop os for a little while now. It's pretty good honestly. I would give it a shot.
- nazgulsenpai 4y ago
  I've been gaming on Void Linux of all things since November and it's run everything that isn't just flat out incompatible with Linux (anti-cheat doesn't allow, etc). Sometimes I think it sucks that I can't play X because the anti-cheat won't allow it to start, then I remember it's a kernel level driver I cross my fingers and hope isn't doing anything nefarious and feel better.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  Same - I switched to Pop!_OS last year and after a decade or two of being disappointed with the claims that Linux gaming had come a long way, I'm very impressed with Valve's Proton compatibility.
pianoben 4y ago
For what it's worth, a ton of people inside of MSFT are opposed to these changes. The few responsible for them are answering to overwhelming pressure from the Finance side. Every time something like this ships out, guaranteed just about every CVP fields angry/annoyed/exasperated complaints about it.

bakugo 4y ago

I use 11 Enterprise and don't have to deal with most of these annoyances thankfully, I don't know if I'd be able to tolerate it if I did.

1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago

If a third party other than Microsoft remotely administered something like this it would probably be labeled a "botnet". No doubt the amount of data that Microsoft exfiltrates about Windows users is at least as much as any "botnet" would, probably much more. Customers have about as much control over what Microsoft decides it wants to do as they do over so-called botnets. As an original Windows 3.11 user (LAN-only, no internet), it's amazing to see how far from sanity things have gone. Computer owners born into this new world of always-on, uncontrollable remote administration would have little reason to know any different. (HN readers or similar being an exception.) NB. I use the term "remote administration" in a general sense, not only in the "remote desktop" sense. Wikipedia's definition is "any method of controlling a computer from a remote location". For example, automatically connecting to a remote computer, downloading, installing and running code that controls the computer, without any user intervention.

flyinghamster 4y ago
Network hardware, too. Just look at how many access points and routers insist on you managing your network through the clown. Yeah, hand the keys to your kingdom to a third party for the "convenience" of managing your network anywhere in the world from your phone. No, I don't WANT to manage my network from a phone, save via a VPN into said network.

pkilgore 4y ago

How outrageous! Let me close the Apple Music window for this App I can't uninstall, and that popup that says I can't save my notes unless I have iCloud, and look past the automatically included Apple News and Apple Financed widgets in the notification panel I accidentally opened to go open a browser that defaults to showing me the shortcuts for several third party companies whose services I do not use to get on the internet to gloat about my superior choice. /s [For the record, all of this is bad, and I constantly wonder why my government thinks there isn't a monopoly problem here, I'm just kinda amused how much hate windows gets in particular, especially since I strongly suspect disabling this is a registry change away, which is not the case for many things I dislike about the computer I am using to type this.]

mooman219 4y ago
I was thinking the same thing. Apple berates the user quite a bit to onboard to iCloud and other services; the screenshot of the new promotion looks about in line with that. If I was a Microsoft PM I'd just pitch the menu as "Apple has the same thing and users are complacent", and get sign off in no time. I think this is fine battle to pick, I have OneDrive uninstalled on my Windows machine, but I think it's a bit silly a lot of users on here are fine with functionally the same ad somewhere else, I don't want to be berated anywhere on any OS.
- JohnTHaller 4y ago
  macOS keeps a permanent 'important' notification in Settings if you don't setup iCloud. I see it every week when I use the iMac in the theater I help out at.
  - glayciar 4y ago
    Really? I don't see this in Ventura. I don't see the Windows stuff either so maybe I'm special somehow!
nice_byte 4y ago
Yup. I don't understand why people choose to rag on Microsoft when literally everyone else who has something to sell you besides the OS itself, does this. Maybe it's because Windows is from the era when MS was not a services company, and people, by force of inertia, expect windows to continue behaving as if MS is not a services company.

sampa 4y ago

I'll just remind everybody that on Linux we have VFIO, where you can passthrough your videocard to Windows virtual-machine, and have almost native gaming. As a big plus, your Win VM's disk C:\ is stored in a file, which you can backup and restore any time you want and not care about viruses/trojans/malware.

jeroenhd 4y ago
> As a big plus, your Win VM's disk C:\ is stored in a file, which you can backup and restore any time you want and not care about viruses/trojans/malware. A little-known feature of the Windows bootloader is that it can actually load VMDK disk images from NTFS drives and boot them. I still wouldn't use that for backups though, there are more practical incremental backup solutions for that.
Hamcha 4y ago
I may look into that, especially now that I've upgraded to a platform where I have both dedicated and integrated graphics. My current worries are: - I have a VR headset, how much work and how functional is it to use under a VM? I heard you'd have to passthrough the entire USB controller which is.. not great - Anticheat still isnt happy about VMs right? That would cut a couple games I'm currently into - How annoying is it to share files? Affinity Photo/Designer not running well in Wine/Proton is one of my blockers to move to Linux, and even if I virtualized I fear it might be incredibly tedious to use because of them being in a VM (unless modern KVM/Vbox/VMWare has flawless copy/paste sync etc)
- sampa 4y ago
  1) most motherboards have several USB controllers, so passing through one of them is a no-brainer. then you just plug a VR into on of those ports 2) mostly correct 3) I set up Samba, so /mnt/folder/ in Linux is mounted as a connected network drive F:\ in Win VM. Works for me.
- pyr0hu 4y ago
  I've tried passing through VR with VFIO, but it did not work properly (Quest2). As soon as I've activated AirLink (with cable) I could only see my hands and a black screen. AirWith on WiFi straight up did not even find the desktop after the first connection attempt. I just reverted to dualboxing.

kdkdk 4y ago

Let‘s gooo I want all the corporate companies to regret ever having used windows. They will be so vender locked that they will have to see advertisements every 10 minutes to continue using it without extra payments.

onewheeltom 4y ago

“The beatings will continue until morale improves”

causality0 4y ago

Remember when you got excited to install the new version of Windows?

rolenthedeep 4y ago
I remember staying up super late on a school night frantically refreshing the windows 7 beta page. IIRC, they only let a limited number of people download a copy, and I just managed to snag one before they ran out. That was the last time that windows caused me anything approaching joy.
Tommstein 4y ago
No.

bob1029 4y ago

It is looking like I may be going back to windows server this year. Someone on HN helpfully reminded me that my VS/MSDN subscription includes access to this already. I am in a really uncomfortable spot of mostly disliking all flavors of operating system now. I don't really like to play games anymore and linux is something I can only enjoy with unlimited free time. MacOS is quickly becoming my favorite "around the house" OS, but I can't stand to do technical work on this setup for some reason - I'll just RDP into my workstation if I'm on the couch.

Nextgrid 4y ago
I recently started a Windows Server VM in AWS to try something out. Upon first RDP login I got a laggy (because it's a web-based piece of shit and not actual native UI which RDP can accelerate) full-screen ad for Edge or something similar.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

If there was a free version of windows with ads and a "pay $99 to get rid of everything", then sure, understandable. But you pay for the licence (well, through an oem usually), and still get ads... well, that's really assholeish. But maybe it's the right thing to do for them, so we'll get some more diversity in the OS space, and soon there might really be a "year of linux on the desktop".

tb_technical 4y ago

I can't wait for shenanigans like this to make Linux more popular

midoridensha 4y ago
I've been waiting for this for decades, and it hasn't changed much. Linux is more popular than it was in 1998, I'll admit, and it's pretty standard in some dev environments (depending on your industry), but it's far from taking over desktop computing. As complacent as most users are, MS could demand one of their kidneys and they'd give it up, grumbling, just so they can keep using Windows (usually to play a game).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

7373737373 4y ago

Is there a website that compiles all dark patterns Microsuck has ever applied?

CommanderData 4y ago

We need legislation fast.

bigboy12 4y ago

Why would anyone use windows??? Ads in the os?? No thanks.

riffic 4y ago

what a garbage ecosystem and it's never not been a dump, that's the best part!

w_for_wumbo 4y ago

The interesting thing is that this is actually a GREAT promotion for the idea that Microsoft is flexing its Monopoly like power, and needs to be broken up yet again.

NayamAmarshe 4y ago

Thanks for making Linux look better, Microsoft!

apatheticonion 4y ago

Windows 10 and 11 have been the single biggest factors pushing me onto Linux as a daily driver. I currently dual boot my desktop, spending my time 50/50 between Linux and Windows. Windows mainly for gaming, Linux for work (and some gaming). The biggest annoyance for me in Linux is that Chrome is a bit janky. I am running Fedora with (as close as possible to vanilla) Gnome. I wish Chrome would just use GTK4 and integrate as seamlessly as Firefox does. I use it with Wayland support and using the GTK theme option in the menu - but it's still a while away. Edge is better but it's still a bit odd. Seeing the progress made in the Gnome project and Gnome 44 also being a great release - I have high hopes that my Linux desktop will be a better user experience than Windows or MacOS soon.

midoridensha 4y ago
>I have high hopes that my Linux desktop will be a better user experience than Windows or MacOS soon. I guess this depends on your definition of "better". I'd say an OS that doesn't force me to view ads is already "better" than one that does.

rsolva 4y ago

Who would have thought that it was Microsoft itself that would make the final push to bring on the year of the Linux destop!

flohofwoe 4y ago

> Microsoft also warned today that after starting next month, there wouldn't be any other preview cumulative updates for supported Windows 10 versions. Well, what a relief. All the more reason to stick to Win10 as long as possible ;)

dusted 4y ago

Is there a paid version of the product that's add free?

Thorentis 4y ago

Been on Linux Mint for 4 years now, and never looked back. Windows is dead to me.

i386 4y ago

Is Microsoft short of cash or something?

reset-password 4y ago

Windows 11 is a thinly-veiled state-sponsored malware masquerading as a productivity tool.

akagusu 4y ago

Can we classify Windows as adware now?