14 ms·

Linux is Making Apple Great Again

154 points by jasoneckert 4y ago

kevbin 4y ago
Here’s what i gleaned from this article: (1) Ken Thompson uses Linux in a Raspberry Pi. (2) Linus Torvalds uses Linux on a laptop he likes better than a Mac with a bad screen. (3) the author likes using linux on ARM chips. (4) Ashashi Linux runs on Apple’s ARM computers. The author uses it. Here’s what the author might add: (1) What did Ken Thompson find off putting about Mac OS? (2) What was wrong with Linus’ screen that couldn’t be fixed and how did switching to Linux fix it? (3) What benefits of running Linux vs Mac Os inspired the author to write this article? Those three points, or similar, might make this article more interesting and valuable.
- nicpottier 4y ago
  Are you a machine?
  - attemptone 4y ago
    Wouldn't a Transformer LM try to write in a more conversational style?
  - dm319 4y ago
    It's suspicious.
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    I doubt it. I was wondering the exact same things because this article was actually pretty information-free. And I'm not a machine, at least.
  - kevbin 4y ago
    I’m probably spending too much time with Bing Chat. As was foretold: https://youtu.be/5eWny2ZLCwU https://youtu.be/5eWny2ZLCwU
- DuckFeathers 4y ago
  > What was wrong with Linus’ screen that couldn’t be fixed and how did switching to Linux fix it? I remember this incident so I can elaborate. While Apple is known for "consumer premium" hardware, they have not necessarily been leading on anything. They source premium hardware from a few generations ago and mass produce it and market it at "consumer premium" prices. When Linus was trying to find a replacement for his older Macbook, he was unimpressed by the screen resolution and quality went with a Dell XPS 15 Developer Edition instead. This was around 2015.
- nsteel 4y ago
  Where does it say he uses a raspberry pi?
scarface74 4y ago
“I don’t have time to tinker with my computer so I will run Linux on it…” I find the lack of self awareness astonishing.
- malermeister 4y ago
  I find it takes much more time to disable all the junk Apple puts in your way and find fixes for all the stuff their designers don't find elegant than it does to install all the junk that doesn't work out of the box with any decent linux distro.
- eric__cartman 4y ago
  I took that as an, I don't have time to learn a new platform so I stick with what works for me, which is valid.
- AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
  This is a quote of Linus explaining why he doesn't have the time to move to a new computing platform on a new architecture. This is not a question of "setup macos takes effort X vs setup linux (on M2 laptop) takes effort Y" this is a question of "doing nothing (keep existing system) is no effort while setting up a new system (new hardware, new architecture, etc) is major effort"
- Iolaum 4y ago
  Totally out of context quote: Linus Torvalds when asked on a Real World Technologies forum whether he would buy an Apple Silicon laptop, he responded with: I’d absolutely love to have one, if it just ran Linux. I have fairly fond memories of the 11” Macbook Air (I think 4,1) that I used about a decade ago (but moved away from because it took Apple too long to fix the screen - and by the time they did, I’d moved on to better laptops, and Apple had moved on to make Linux less convenient). Apple may run Linux in their cloud, but their laptops don’t. I’ve been waiting for an ARM laptop that can run Linux for a long time. The new Air would be almost perfect, except for the OS. And I don’t have the time to tinker with it, or the inclination to fight companies that don’t want to help.
  - 4y ago
photonbeam 4y ago
That font really makes it hard to read
- frankjr 4y ago
  It looks like the blog uses "Overlock" font loaded via Google fonts. In case your browser won't load it, you get "cursive".
- tmtvl 4y ago
  If you're on Firefox you can go into Font Settings and uncheck Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of your selections above.
  - Waterluvian 4y ago
    Indeed. On mobile you can just use Reader mode, too. Which seems to have become my default for everything.
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    where does that setting live? didn't see it, searches don't find it?
    - bee_rider 4y ago
      It is in the “advanced” menu for fonts (directly to the right of the font size selection drop-down box in the current UI).
      - fsckboy 4y ago
        aaahhh there it is (due to the wonder of flat ui design, I didn't see that the dialog box could and needed to scroll)
javaunsafe2019 4y ago
Man all that ads on hn nowadays kinda xxxx :(
- jrepinc 4y ago
  Exactly all that GAFAM/BigTech/OpenAI/ChatGPT corporate propaganda should be forbidden here. At least this post promotes some free/libre and opensource and privacy respecting software.
  - throw2022110401 4y ago
    We are wildly off-topic here but I use a keyword filter to get rid of that stuff and the number of hits it gets is almost always in the 4-6 range, sometimes creeping up to 8. I still think that most of the noise is organic but the unrelenting consistency of it makes me wonder.
rvnx 4y ago
Summary: Ken Thompson, co-creator of UNIX, expressed disappointment with Apple's macOS, prompting him to transition to Linux, specifically Raspbian. Apple's ARM-based Silicon architecture offers excellent hardware, but users like Thompson and Linus Torvalds find macOS restrictive. The Asahi Linux project enables running an ARM64 Linux distribution on Apple Silicon hardware.
- thinkpad13 4y ago
  Any other example why the both said its restrictive instead of its not open source? What linux can do but osx can? Because I always thought osx can do whatever linux do because its unix based
  - mathstuf 4y ago
    If you work within standard POSIX, sure. But there are many things that are not POSIX that are useful and not available on macOS: - systemd has some inspiration from launchd, but certainly not its documentation strategy - `du` doesn't have a `-b` flag (repeat for oodles of useful GNU flags baked into my fingers) - getting a "pristine" environment on macOS is a true PITA and a horror for CI (containers win massively here) - some things are only available through the UI (e.g., TCC.db edits are SIP-locked to when Preferences deigns to ask you) - useful window management (macOS is quite a bit behind even Windows' rudimentary tiling and focus management and even Windows has all kinds of sad quirks compared to what XMonad and Awesome provide)
  - krzyk 4y ago
    Can I switch to a different window manager, because I really don't like the default in macos - specifically a tiling WM.
    - frizlab 4y ago
      There are tools like Magnet and such that help. Window management is maybe the worst part of macOS and it’s worse after each release of macOS.
mattkevan 4y ago
As someone who’s used macOS since the early betas I really don’t understand this perpetual meme that the early versions were so good and it’s all locked-down rubbish now. Seems more like faulty memory mixed with a general tendency to think that everything was better ‘back in my day’. Every version had its bugs at release and were mostly fixed after a few point releases. If I recall, the only one that was fine from the start was 10.6 Snow Leopard, and that was only because 10.5 Leper was so bad.
- sockaddr 4y ago
  > 10.5 Leper Heh
- Klonoar 4y ago
  10.6 wasn't even perfect from the start, it just has the standout point of being "perfect" by the end before 10.7 got funky.
- modshatereality 4y ago
  Sequence of events for me: 1) stopped using the GOAT compiler GCC 2) killed X11 support 3) killed all 32bit support. 4) hit rock bottom.
  - arthur2e5 4y ago
    1) was a problem in the early days, but what they poured into clang did eventually pay off. It's a reasonable compiler with tons of vendor extensions, many being Apple's, these days. Clang also served as a source for GCC to take new features from. Good to have some competition. 2) XQuartz took a while, but is doing well. 3) was a big one in making upstream wine not work. with wine32on64 you can sure still pull the pinball party trick, but building that thing takes too much. 4) was specifically SIP for me, especially when they started making updates break with system changes. The ntfs-3g automount thing has always relied on replacing mount_ntfs [which is, by the way, not the proper way to make an fs on a Mac -- there's some filesystem bundle business], and now it's too much of a pain to still access the Windows drive.
  - lispm 4y ago
jprd 4y ago
Do we need to keep the "Make X Great Again" meme alive? Even tongue-in-cheek, even with recent use by dead-end white supremacists as a dog whistle, this is a literal Nazi-ism. Can we just put it to bed already?
- mdp2021 4y ago
  > literal Nazi-ism What do you mean? "Exactly what a countryside simpleton ("Ignaz", at the time and place) would adopt as a stance"?! Somebody takes an innocent expression and tries to taint it, you do your part in deflating the tainted use, you renormalize - that's what you are supposed to do. The article author uses irony.
- ARandomerDude 4y ago
  > Do we need to keep the "Make X Great Again" meme alive? Agreed. > this is a literal Nazi-ism Uh…what? I’m struggling to recall the locations of the concentration camps in the USA. We also shouldn’t keep the guy I don’t like is Hitler meme alive.
  - kenbolton 4y ago
    I can help you remember the locations with the help of Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America...
    - claytongulick 4y ago
      Are you suggesting that former president Trump was responsible for the internment of Japanese in WW2?
      - kenbolton 4y ago
        > I’m struggling to recall the locations of the concentration camps in the USA. My reply was to the above statement.
  - 4y ago
thih9 4y ago
I don’t understand the MAGA reference, it seems off topic to me.
- secondcoming 4y ago
  Make Apple Great Again
- riffic 4y ago
  it's unnecessary and off-putting imo. folks thoroughly flamed the 9front community for using holocaust imagery (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25778940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25778940) and this is sort of a parallel choice.
  - kbutler 4y ago
    And so you compare references to your political opponents to references to the holocaust? A little introspection may be helpful.
  - claytongulick 4y ago
    You're equating "Make America Great Again" with the Holocaust? I think you might want to take a step back from politics for a bit and take a deep breath.
    - howenterprisey 4y ago
      No, they're saying both of these things are off-putting. Obviously not to the same degree. I don't want to see either, though.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - riffic 4y ago
      I choose my words carefully. Is it a necessary phrase to make when discussing operating systems? Can you not see how it would be off-putting of a statement to make? I would advise you refrain from putting words in my mouth.
abledon 4y ago
I can't wait for the 15" macbook air. That thing will probably be my jumping off point into feeling out the Asahi Linux vibe on Macs.
- thinkpad13 4y ago
  When do you think it will come?
  - abledon 4y ago
    rumours say late 2023 https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/macbook-air/ https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/macbook-air/
jacooper 4y ago
I really agree, the hardware is good, but macOS isnt attractive at all. Its behind windows in every step, desktop experience, app support(no games!) And more, while not being as pure / techy friendly as Linux. Didn't know that ashai got so far!, how is it on laptops? And can I use the custom kernel on anything else? Like fedora / Ubuntu?
anonymous344 4y ago
i would love to know what does these real pros cany actuallu handle in osx. i mean really, what are the features that are show stoppers?
- margorczynski 4y ago
  I'm not sure what is your definition of a "real pro" but for me personally: * Docker performance - even the top-of-the-line MBP I have cannot handle a few services in a docker-compose before starting to error about loosing CPU cycles or the TCP/IP communication between the services dying * I cannot use a proper titling WM like i3/sway. There are some hacks but they fall apart and they're nowhere near as configurable as I would want * I get attacked by ads telling me to upgrade to iCloud+ * Most importantly - it is very different than the environment where I run stuff (Linux node/server/etc.) so there's another layer of complexity and problems attached when developing on it to be deployed there compared to developing on Linux (even a different distro than the target) * In general I feel like the OS is treating me like an idiot when using it - the feeling is displeasing
thinkpad13 4y ago
Anyone could help me what is limitting about macos? I always thought os x is better than linux because its unix and it haves windows like software(ms office and adobes) and no other laptop better than macbook pro for me Dont get it wrong i use linux on my desktop and server and currently burning tumbleweed iso to a dvd
- grozzle 4y ago
  A complete lack of focus stealing prevention, for one. Corner notifications that never go away even though I'm clearly trying to ignore them. Suddenly typing into some random new thing instead of where I want to be typing. "All your 32-bit programs are dead now, yes including your paid-for games. Lol." "OpenGL and Vulkan weren't invented here, we'll make the same thing, but not compatible, instead of supporting them." Apple's file system is still shite. "file cannot be deleted because the disk is full" is a Kafka style nightmare message. Mac users are also a significant horror when you go asking for help with any of this, they generally have gone full Stockholm syndrome and will blame the new victim rather than the captor.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bfung 4y ago
I’ve been on and off mac’s since the late 90s. Contrary to the article and similar to comments here, their OS was never that good until last 10 years - not the other way around. As I got older, I got less time to fiddle with drivers on linux (Nvidia/noveau drivers ptsd, wifi drivers…) why can’t it just work!? The title should be the other way around: Apple is making Linux Great Again. Having limited but excellent hardware configuration makes writing stable software easier.
- flandish 4y ago
  I agree. Been developing since the mid 90’s. Gone are the days of forgetting to compile a nic driver and having to redo something with an install… I love linux. Heck .. love all OSs. They’re amazing. Working in the current times on my MBP seems like I finally have my linux install “set up just right.” Yeah, I tend still to toss around a dotfiles repo, stay in vi often, but stuff like vscode, obsidian, ios file sync, etc… just works. Upgrades don’t brick shit. I dunno. I am grateful I don’t have to use wsl/wsl2/cygwin anymore to get tools I need.
mdmglr 4y ago
The way articles like this end up down the grapevine, like a game of telephone, is “mac bad, Linux good.” And I’m considered the idiot for having to ask. The article quotes Ken. Then in the next paragraph says “macOS move slowly towards closed standards and tighter control.” But is that what Ken was saying? That part isn’t a quote, and on a quick first read I almost thought that was the reason Ken gave. Raspberry Pi is no more open than Apple. Sure it runs Linux, but is the ARM processor Raspberry Pi uses open? I recall it wasn’t. So here are my questions: 1. Why did Ken throw away “zillion years in Apple”? 2. What Pi hardware is Ken using? Pi doesn’t come in laptop or desktop form factor. 3. How is driver support on Ashai? Is everything working? 4. Is there any laptop out there made from aluminum with a strong frame? And a 120hz mini LED or OLED display? When I’ve look at the options from System76, Framework, Dell, Lenovo and others they all look like my PC laptops from the 2010’s just slightly thinner. I don’t trust LG, Samsung or Lenovo. The latter due to its history with malware.
- tacker2000 4y ago
  He is talking about using Raspbian, the Debian-based OS that runs on the Raspberry Pi among other devices. I’m pretty sure he is running Rasbpian on some laptop and not using a Pi as his “daily driver” ;)
  - mdmglr 4y ago
    Ah ok that makes more sense
- doctor_eval 4y ago
  Not to nitpick but Pi 400 is a desktop form factor. https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/
  - margorczynski 4y ago
    I'm getting flashbacks of my C64 seeing a computer being put into a keyboard.
jmclnx 4y ago
Maybe something System76 can do, create an arm based system for Linux ( and of course BSDs)
BenGosub 4y ago
Any suggestions for an ARM based Linux laptop? Bonus points for a great battery life.
smackeyacky 4y ago
"Apple won’t help you figure out how to do it, nor give you the information necessary to create device drivers for their hardware, but the possibility is there." I don't buy Apple hardware, but this quote could be applied to just about every big manufacturer.
tictacttoe 4y ago
Asahi (Arch) is fantastic and I’m immensely grateful to the dev team. One small issue I wish they’d fix is monitor over Thunderbolt. Currently only HDMI works.
thedonkeycometh 4y ago
[dead]
heywoodlh 4y ago
In my past four engineering positions I have been issued Macbooks. I'm almost exclusively a Linux user for personal machines, although I have an M2 Macbook Air that I like to work on and I love it. My approach to making MacOS awesome for me, is using Nix on Darwin. I really enjoy codifying my MacOS setup and I have set things up in a way where my MacOS build is almost indistinguishable from my NixOS builds when it comes to the appearance, keyboard shortcuts and overall workflows.

154 points by jasoneckert 4y ago

Here’s what i gleaned from this article: (1) Ken Thompson uses Linux in a Raspberry Pi. (2) Linus Torvalds uses Linux on a laptop he likes better than a Mac with a bad screen. (3) the author likes using linux on ARM chips. (4) Ashashi Linux runs on Apple’s ARM computers. The author uses it. Here’s what the author might add: (1) What did Ken Thompson find off putting about Mac OS? (2) What was wrong with Linus’ screen that couldn’t be fixed and how did switching to Linux fix it? (3) What benefits of running Linux vs Mac Os inspired the author to write this article? Those three points, or similar, might make this article more interesting and valuable.

nicpottier 4y ago
Are you a machine?
- attemptone 4y ago
  Wouldn't a Transformer LM try to write in a more conversational style?
- dm319 4y ago
  It's suspicious.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  I doubt it. I was wondering the exact same things because this article was actually pretty information-free. And I'm not a machine, at least.
- kevbin 4y ago
  I’m probably spending too much time with Bing Chat. As was foretold: https://youtu.be/5eWny2ZLCwU https://youtu.be/5eWny2ZLCwU
DuckFeathers 4y ago
> What was wrong with Linus’ screen that couldn’t be fixed and how did switching to Linux fix it? I remember this incident so I can elaborate. While Apple is known for "consumer premium" hardware, they have not necessarily been leading on anything. They source premium hardware from a few generations ago and mass produce it and market it at "consumer premium" prices. When Linus was trying to find a replacement for his older Macbook, he was unimpressed by the screen resolution and quality went with a Dell XPS 15 Developer Edition instead. This was around 2015.
nsteel 4y ago
Where does it say he uses a raspberry pi?

scarface74 4y ago

“I don’t have time to tinker with my computer so I will run Linux on it…” I find the lack of self awareness astonishing.

malermeister 4y ago
I find it takes much more time to disable all the junk Apple puts in your way and find fixes for all the stuff their designers don't find elegant than it does to install all the junk that doesn't work out of the box with any decent linux distro.
eric__cartman 4y ago
I took that as an, I don't have time to learn a new platform so I stick with what works for me, which is valid.
AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
This is a quote of Linus explaining why he doesn't have the time to move to a new computing platform on a new architecture. This is not a question of "setup macos takes effort X vs setup linux (on M2 laptop) takes effort Y" this is a question of "doing nothing (keep existing system) is no effort while setting up a new system (new hardware, new architecture, etc) is major effort"
Iolaum 4y ago
Totally out of context quote: Linus Torvalds when asked on a Real World Technologies forum whether he would buy an Apple Silicon laptop, he responded with: I’d absolutely love to have one, if it just ran Linux. I have fairly fond memories of the 11” Macbook Air (I think 4,1) that I used about a decade ago (but moved away from because it took Apple too long to fix the screen - and by the time they did, I’d moved on to better laptops, and Apple had moved on to make Linux less convenient). Apple may run Linux in their cloud, but their laptops don’t. I’ve been waiting for an ARM laptop that can run Linux for a long time. The new Air would be almost perfect, except for the OS. And I don’t have the time to tinker with it, or the inclination to fight companies that don’t want to help.
- 4y ago

photonbeam 4y ago

That font really makes it hard to read

frankjr 4y ago
It looks like the blog uses "Overlock" font loaded via Google fonts. In case your browser won't load it, you get "cursive".
tmtvl 4y ago
If you're on Firefox you can go into Font Settings and uncheck Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of your selections above.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  Indeed. On mobile you can just use Reader mode, too. Which seems to have become my default for everything.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  where does that setting live? didn't see it, searches don't find it?
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    It is in the “advanced” menu for fonts (directly to the right of the font size selection drop-down box in the current UI).
    - fsckboy 4y ago
      aaahhh there it is (due to the wonder of flat ui design, I didn't see that the dialog box could and needed to scroll)

javaunsafe2019 4y ago

Man all that ads on hn nowadays kinda xxxx :(

jrepinc 4y ago
Exactly all that GAFAM/BigTech/OpenAI/ChatGPT corporate propaganda should be forbidden here. At least this post promotes some free/libre and opensource and privacy respecting software.
- throw2022110401 4y ago
  We are wildly off-topic here but I use a keyword filter to get rid of that stuff and the number of hits it gets is almost always in the 4-6 range, sometimes creeping up to 8. I still think that most of the noise is organic but the unrelenting consistency of it makes me wonder.

rvnx 4y ago

Summary: Ken Thompson, co-creator of UNIX, expressed disappointment with Apple's macOS, prompting him to transition to Linux, specifically Raspbian. Apple's ARM-based Silicon architecture offers excellent hardware, but users like Thompson and Linus Torvalds find macOS restrictive. The Asahi Linux project enables running an ARM64 Linux distribution on Apple Silicon hardware.

thinkpad13 4y ago
Any other example why the both said its restrictive instead of its not open source? What linux can do but osx can? Because I always thought osx can do whatever linux do because its unix based
- mathstuf 4y ago
  If you work within standard POSIX, sure. But there are many things that are not POSIX that are useful and not available on macOS: - systemd has some inspiration from launchd, but certainly not its documentation strategy - `du` doesn't have a `-b` flag (repeat for oodles of useful GNU flags baked into my fingers) - getting a "pristine" environment on macOS is a true PITA and a horror for CI (containers win massively here) - some things are only available through the UI (e.g., TCC.db edits are SIP-locked to when Preferences deigns to ask you) - useful window management (macOS is quite a bit behind even Windows' rudimentary tiling and focus management and even Windows has all kinds of sad quirks compared to what XMonad and Awesome provide)
- krzyk 4y ago
  Can I switch to a different window manager, because I really don't like the default in macos - specifically a tiling WM.
  - frizlab 4y ago
    There are tools like Magnet and such that help. Window management is maybe the worst part of macOS and it’s worse after each release of macOS.

mattkevan 4y ago

As someone who’s used macOS since the early betas I really don’t understand this perpetual meme that the early versions were so good and it’s all locked-down rubbish now. Seems more like faulty memory mixed with a general tendency to think that everything was better ‘back in my day’. Every version had its bugs at release and were mostly fixed after a few point releases. If I recall, the only one that was fine from the start was 10.6 Snow Leopard, and that was only because 10.5 Leper was so bad.

sockaddr 4y ago
> 10.5 Leper Heh
Klonoar 4y ago
10.6 wasn't even perfect from the start, it just has the standout point of being "perfect" by the end before 10.7 got funky.
modshatereality 4y ago
Sequence of events for me: 1) stopped using the GOAT compiler GCC 2) killed X11 support 3) killed all 32bit support. 4) hit rock bottom.
- arthur2e5 4y ago
  1) was a problem in the early days, but what they poured into clang did eventually pay off. It's a reasonable compiler with tons of vendor extensions, many being Apple's, these days. Clang also served as a source for GCC to take new features from. Good to have some competition. 2) XQuartz took a while, but is doing well. 3) was a big one in making upstream wine not work. with wine32on64 you can sure still pull the pinball party trick, but building that thing takes too much. 4) was specifically SIP for me, especially when they started making updates break with system changes. The ntfs-3g automount thing has always relied on replacing mount_ntfs [which is, by the way, not the proper way to make an fs on a Mac -- there's some filesystem bundle business], and now it's too much of a pain to still access the Windows drive.
- lispm 4y ago

jprd 4y ago

Do we need to keep the "Make X Great Again" meme alive? Even tongue-in-cheek, even with recent use by dead-end white supremacists as a dog whistle, this is a literal Nazi-ism. Can we just put it to bed already?

mdp2021 4y ago
> literal Nazi-ism What do you mean? "Exactly what a countryside simpleton ("Ignaz", at the time and place) would adopt as a stance"?! Somebody takes an innocent expression and tries to taint it, you do your part in deflating the tainted use, you renormalize - that's what you are supposed to do. The article author uses irony.
ARandomerDude 4y ago
> Do we need to keep the "Make X Great Again" meme alive? Agreed. > this is a literal Nazi-ism Uh…what? I’m struggling to recall the locations of the concentration camps in the USA. We also shouldn’t keep the guy I don’t like is Hitler meme alive.
- kenbolton 4y ago
  I can help you remember the locations with the help of Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America...
  - claytongulick 4y ago
    Are you suggesting that former president Trump was responsible for the internment of Japanese in WW2?
    - kenbolton 4y ago
      > I’m struggling to recall the locations of the concentration camps in the USA. My reply was to the above statement.
- 4y ago

thih9 4y ago

I don’t understand the MAGA reference, it seems off topic to me.

secondcoming 4y ago
Make Apple Great Again
riffic 4y ago
it's unnecessary and off-putting imo. folks thoroughly flamed the 9front community for using holocaust imagery (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25778940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25778940) and this is sort of a parallel choice.
- kbutler 4y ago
  And so you compare references to your political opponents to references to the holocaust? A little introspection may be helpful.
- claytongulick 4y ago
  You're equating "Make America Great Again" with the Holocaust? I think you might want to take a step back from politics for a bit and take a deep breath.
  - howenterprisey 4y ago
    No, they're saying both of these things are off-putting. Obviously not to the same degree. I don't want to see either, though.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - riffic 4y ago
    I choose my words carefully. Is it a necessary phrase to make when discussing operating systems? Can you not see how it would be off-putting of a statement to make? I would advise you refrain from putting words in my mouth.

abledon 4y ago

I can't wait for the 15" macbook air. That thing will probably be my jumping off point into feeling out the Asahi Linux vibe on Macs.

thinkpad13 4y ago
When do you think it will come?
- abledon 4y ago
  rumours say late 2023 https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/macbook-air/ https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/macbook-air/

jacooper 4y ago

I really agree, the hardware is good, but macOS isnt attractive at all. Its behind windows in every step, desktop experience, app support(no games!) And more, while not being as pure / techy friendly as Linux. Didn't know that ashai got so far!, how is it on laptops? And can I use the custom kernel on anything else? Like fedora / Ubuntu?

anonymous344 4y ago

i would love to know what does these real pros cany actuallu handle in osx. i mean really, what are the features that are show stoppers?

margorczynski 4y ago
I'm not sure what is your definition of a "real pro" but for me personally: * Docker performance - even the top-of-the-line MBP I have cannot handle a few services in a docker-compose before starting to error about loosing CPU cycles or the TCP/IP communication between the services dying * I cannot use a proper titling WM like i3/sway. There are some hacks but they fall apart and they're nowhere near as configurable as I would want * I get attacked by ads telling me to upgrade to iCloud+ * Most importantly - it is very different than the environment where I run stuff (Linux node/server/etc.) so there's another layer of complexity and problems attached when developing on it to be deployed there compared to developing on Linux (even a different distro than the target) * In general I feel like the OS is treating me like an idiot when using it - the feeling is displeasing

thinkpad13 4y ago

Anyone could help me what is limitting about macos? I always thought os x is better than linux because its unix and it haves windows like software(ms office and adobes) and no other laptop better than macbook pro for me Dont get it wrong i use linux on my desktop and server and currently burning tumbleweed iso to a dvd

grozzle 4y ago
A complete lack of focus stealing prevention, for one. Corner notifications that never go away even though I'm clearly trying to ignore them. Suddenly typing into some random new thing instead of where I want to be typing. "All your 32-bit programs are dead now, yes including your paid-for games. Lol." "OpenGL and Vulkan weren't invented here, we'll make the same thing, but not compatible, instead of supporting them." Apple's file system is still shite. "file cannot be deleted because the disk is full" is a Kafka style nightmare message. Mac users are also a significant horror when you go asking for help with any of this, they generally have gone full Stockholm syndrome and will blame the new victim rather than the captor.

deleted 4y ago

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bfung 4y ago

I’ve been on and off mac’s since the late 90s. Contrary to the article and similar to comments here, their OS was never that good until last 10 years - not the other way around. As I got older, I got less time to fiddle with drivers on linux (Nvidia/noveau drivers ptsd, wifi drivers…) why can’t it just work!? The title should be the other way around: Apple is making Linux Great Again. Having limited but excellent hardware configuration makes writing stable software easier.

flandish 4y ago
I agree. Been developing since the mid 90’s. Gone are the days of forgetting to compile a nic driver and having to redo something with an install… I love linux. Heck .. love all OSs. They’re amazing. Working in the current times on my MBP seems like I finally have my linux install “set up just right.” Yeah, I tend still to toss around a dotfiles repo, stay in vi often, but stuff like vscode, obsidian, ios file sync, etc… just works. Upgrades don’t brick shit. I dunno. I am grateful I don’t have to use wsl/wsl2/cygwin anymore to get tools I need.

mdmglr 4y ago

The way articles like this end up down the grapevine, like a game of telephone, is “mac bad, Linux good.” And I’m considered the idiot for having to ask. The article quotes Ken. Then in the next paragraph says “macOS move slowly towards closed standards and tighter control.” But is that what Ken was saying? That part isn’t a quote, and on a quick first read I almost thought that was the reason Ken gave. Raspberry Pi is no more open than Apple. Sure it runs Linux, but is the ARM processor Raspberry Pi uses open? I recall it wasn’t. So here are my questions: 1. Why did Ken throw away “zillion years in Apple”? 2. What Pi hardware is Ken using? Pi doesn’t come in laptop or desktop form factor. 3. How is driver support on Ashai? Is everything working? 4. Is there any laptop out there made from aluminum with a strong frame? And a 120hz mini LED or OLED display? When I’ve look at the options from System76, Framework, Dell, Lenovo and others they all look like my PC laptops from the 2010’s just slightly thinner. I don’t trust LG, Samsung or Lenovo. The latter due to its history with malware.

tacker2000 4y ago
He is talking about using Raspbian, the Debian-based OS that runs on the Raspberry Pi among other devices. I’m pretty sure he is running Rasbpian on some laptop and not using a Pi as his “daily driver” ;)
- mdmglr 4y ago
  Ah ok that makes more sense
doctor_eval 4y ago
Not to nitpick but Pi 400 is a desktop form factor. https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/
- margorczynski 4y ago
  I'm getting flashbacks of my C64 seeing a computer being put into a keyboard.

jmclnx 4y ago

Maybe something System76 can do, create an arm based system for Linux ( and of course BSDs)

BenGosub 4y ago

Any suggestions for an ARM based Linux laptop? Bonus points for a great battery life.

smackeyacky 4y ago

"Apple won’t help you figure out how to do it, nor give you the information necessary to create device drivers for their hardware, but the possibility is there." I don't buy Apple hardware, but this quote could be applied to just about every big manufacturer.

tictacttoe 4y ago

Asahi (Arch) is fantastic and I’m immensely grateful to the dev team. One small issue I wish they’d fix is monitor over Thunderbolt. Currently only HDMI works.

thedonkeycometh 4y ago

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heywoodlh 4y ago

In my past four engineering positions I have been issued Macbooks. I'm almost exclusively a Linux user for personal machines, although I have an M2 Macbook Air that I like to work on and I love it. My approach to making MacOS awesome for me, is using Nix on Darwin. I really enjoy codifying my MacOS setup and I have set things up in a way where my MacOS build is almost indistinguishable from my NixOS builds when it comes to the appearance, keyboard shortcuts and overall workflows.