14 ms·

Studies Link Marijuana Legalization to Positive Public Health Outcomes

74 points by Clubber 4y ago

jmpman 4y ago
I’ve wondered how much of our homelessness crisis is due to psychotic breaks from marijuana. It’s a small fraction of users which have psychotic breaks, but our homelessness population is similarly small.
- draw_down 4y ago
  [dead]
- devmor 4y ago
  Is there any study or relevant data point that would lead you to believe this is happening? Or is it just a completely wild thought?
  - brandall10 4y ago
    https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/there-link-between-marijuana-use-psychiatric-disorders https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - devmor 4y ago
      I meant on whether or not it has a significant representation in the homeless community - not that it exists.
      - jmpman 4y ago
        Would be interesting to see the homelessness rates in countries with very restricted marijuana access, like Japan, versus countries where it’s widely used. Or some other way to determine if marijuana usage increases homelessness.
- jrsj 4y ago
  Happens a lot more with stimulants, meth being the worst. Amphetamine psychosis can be permanent & irreversible with heavy enough use.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  You think homeless people have only themselves and their own actions to blame?
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  Very little of it. The causes of homelessness are pretty well understood and it's basically poverty, high housing costs, low wages, lack of access to affordable medical care. Being homeless also does a number on your mental health and my intuition says a lot of those "psychotic breaks" were experiences of homelessness, not causes.
  - jmpman 4y ago
    I had a friend who experienced a psychotic break following marijuana use. He was a moderate user, weekends only, for a dozen years prior. If he didn’t have such excellent support structure around him, I’d expect him to be homeless now.
- phren0logy 4y ago
  I'm a psychiatrist who works with lots of people who are homeless and mentally ill. My experience faces a strong selection bias in that I don't see the homeless people who don't have marked symptoms of mental illness. The ones who come to my attention usually have delusions and hallucinations. Beyond anecdotes, there's some reasonable and ongoing research on the topic. Methamphetamine remains far more strongly associated with psychosis than cannabis, but both anecdotes and research support that THC extracts are considerably more likely to cause psychosis than whole flowers. There also seems to be something protective about CBD, so THC extract (dabs/oil) products appear to carry more risk due to both their high THC content and the absence of CBD. People who use cannabis heavily in adolescence also have an increased risk of developing a psychotic disorder.
  - mrosett 4y ago
    Interesting response. Subjectively, do you THC-linked psychosis regularly?
    - phren0logy 4y ago
      Again, strong selection bias, but yes. THC stays in your system for a long time. It can take a while to figure out if the issue is a primary psychotic disorder, like Schizophrenia, that has been exacerbated by THC or if it's only drug-induced. I occasionally see cases that appear to be completely accounted for by THC, but at a far lower rate than meth-induced psychosis.
      - tarotuser 4y ago
        I'm also curious, since you work in psychiatry.... Have you seen any cases of scromiting, or "Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome"? These articles showed up in a big online hit in mid-2022, and never seemingly referenced again. My pessimism indicated that it was likely a hit piece against cannabis, but I'd rather ask for sure than just assume some conspiracy.
        phren0logy 4y ago
- RajT88 4y ago
  I'd look to alcohol first. It's been legal for much more of the modern age, and certainly also carries with it the risk of psychosis. And as the other commenter points out, "Whither Meth?" Probably all of these things are contributing factors, in some form.
- w______roy 4y ago
  Having a psychotic break doesn't suddenly make you homeless. You would need a psychotic break + lack of healthcare + lack of family/friends/support network + lack of money + lack of social programs + lack of affordable housing. The idea that people just one day lose their minds and wander out into the street is not supported by my experiences working with and interacting with unhoused people.
sparrish 4y ago
"estimate the effects of [medical marijuana law] adoption on traffic fatality rates". Every pothead I get stuck behind here in Colorado is going 15 under the speed limit. Hard to get in a fatal accident going 20.
- mbostleman 4y ago
  Except that what's fatal is high relative, not absolute, speed.
  - pksebben 4y ago
    what you did there, I see it.
  - htag 4y ago
    It seems like a large claim to say that an accident between someone going 60 and 40mph is as fatal as an accident between someone going 60 and 80. I would need to see empirical evidence to consider the claim. Absolute speed is one of the key values indicating how much energy is in a car crash.
    - riffic 4y ago
      people who study the traffic safety problem area will generally avoid saying the word "accident", just for your information. https://www.grahamfeest.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/accident-or-crash-does-the-terminology-really-matter.pdf https://www.grahamfeest.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/accid...
      - PopAlongKid 4y ago
        Such an over-long and redundant article. However, they do make a point (twice) that is no longer true: >Only about 10% of accidents are caused by vehicle error, weather, or another non- human-related event. Clearly the self-driving feature of more recently-made vehicles is going to, if not already doing so, cause more than 10% of crashes.
    - 4y ago
beepbooptheory 4y ago
> One criticism from concerned parents or conservative politicians was that increased legalization would lead to increased teenage consumption of cannabis....It’s a criticism that exemplifies the theory of the author Jonathan Haidt, who showed in his classic volume The Righteous Mind that most people form their opnions by making an emotional conclusion—teenage consumption of cannabis is bad—and then using ad-hoc rationalization backwards to find whatever intuitive reasoning is needed to justify their gut instinct. I don't understand how this exemplifies this. Isn't the worry just much simpler: legalization creates in general more accessible weed, and so more teens could get it? Not to comment on the fact that this was retrospectively a misguided concern. Just don't understand Haidt's relevance here. (Not to mention its a little weird to feel the need to credit him with this idea, isn't just kind of a truism?)
- edgyquant 4y ago
  How is the concern misguided? I’ve heard people say use is down since legalization but I’ve never seen them provide data and that isn’t the case in Washington state. It’s trending up across all age groups. https://doh.wa.gov/data-statistical-reports/washington-tracking-network-wtn/marijuana-and-tobacco/dashboard https://doh.wa.gov/data-statistical-reports/washington-track...
  - beepbooptheory 4y ago
    I don't know, but like that's not the point of my comment!
    - edgyquant 4y ago
      Maybe not but > the fact that this was retrospectively a misguided concern You claimed it was a “fact” and it’s not. It’s misinformation that should be pushed back against.
- p0pcult 4y ago
  >legalization creates in general more accessible weed, and so more teens could get it? When I was an NYC middle school teacher, one of my students offered to get me all of the weed I wanted, if I could get him some beer for his party. The illegal, unregulated weed was obviously far more available to him than the legal, regulated alchohol. That argument doesn't hold.
robg 4y ago
Makes sense as a replacement for alcohol, one is a plant the other is a distilled poison.
danjac 4y ago
Living in a country where marijuana consumption is still illegal (as in, you go to jail or at least get a criminal record, not even decriminalized) the frustrating thing is that when medical evidence is up against public prejudice and ignorance, the politicians will always side with the public rather than the science.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  Democracy is when politicians respond to public opinion rather than experts. Great problem to have IMO.
  - p0pcult 4y ago
    Is it though?
  - danjac 4y ago
    If a politician believes a course of action is beneficial, and public opinion disagrees with them, then they should persuade the public to change their opinion. That's kind of how democracy has worked since ancient Greece.
graphe 4y ago
Marijuana use is linked to psychosis and schizophrenia. How do we index positive health outcomes? Teenage use statistically goes down while a few years ago vitamin e oil killed people.
- cma 4y ago
  Legal trouble and jail probably causes some disorders to manifest (like extreme anxiety).
- renewedrebecca 4y ago
  ...in people who are already disposed to these disorders.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > ...in people who are already disposed to these disorders. So? If the disorder would have otherwise remained latent in an individual, and marijuana was the environmental factor that caused it to manifest itself, then that's definitely a negative health outcome of marijuana.
    - loeg 4y ago
      We don't have anything close to evidence of a causal relationship.
- harimau777 4y ago
  For medical applications of marijuana it might be possible to somewhat objectively quantify the positive results. However, it is probably not possible to objectively quantify the positive results recreational use (increased creativity, recreation, fellowship, etc.). It seems to me that the larger issue is the significant negative results of criminalization.
sashablacks 4y ago
[dead]
sarojmoh1 4y ago
I let marijuana destroy my life. For about a year, I experienced all the benefits ppl use it for. Then all of a sudden I would get panic attacks and full-on psychosis. I would not wish these episodes on my worst enemy. The smell of it is so ubiquitous now that it's legal and it's a great deal of anxiety for someone like me. I acknowledge its benefits and that I'm probably a rare case. But it is disturbing to me how mainstream it's become. Certainly..some ppl will face the same repercussions I went through and I don't want that to happen. I still think it should be controlled medically and not as available as lotto tickets
- whalesalad 4y ago
  Live and let live.
- jerrygenser 4y ago
  > I still think it should be controlled medically and not as available as lotto tickets You could make the same argument for alcohol... it can destroy lives and yet is still legal.
  - valenaut 4y ago
    Likewise for lotto tickets.
  - andersentobias 4y ago
    I know that psychosis on alcohol happens, but I have never personally seen a person get psychotic from alcohol. Cannabis on the other hand...
    - bitcoin_anon 4y ago
      Have you ever been to a bar?
      - Scoundreller 4y ago
        Been to Oktoberfest. All of the Brit, Irish, Canadian and Australian members of the crew could not believe that much alcohol in one place without any barfights/disputes/blah. “This event wouldn’t be possible in Ireland”
invalidusernam3 4y ago
Personally I feel like marijuana legalisation is a no brainer. It's the most used illegal drug in the world so it's incredibly easy to get hold of regardless of its legal status. At least with legalisation it can be regulated and taxed. I would expect any social impact could be mitigated with education. Also legalisation would prevent people from having to interact with illegal dealers who may or may not be selling other more dangerous drugs.
- mcculley 4y ago
  > it's incredibly easy to get hold of regardless of its legal status > At least with legalisation it can be regulated and taxed. If it is so easy to acquire, how will legalization result necessarily in regulation and taxation? I am sure some users would go the legal route, but I am aware of people in states that legalized who still grow and sell their own to avoid taxes.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Missouri has generated $70M in recreational marijuana sales revenue in the first month after recreational legalization. Some people will avoid taxes via black market route but most will take the path of least resistance. Doctors hand out medical cards liberally, so that’s a cheat code if you can’t afford recreational taxes and are willing to put the effort in (medical is usually taxed at a lower rate). > Recreational cannabis sales in Missouri generated $71.7 million in revenue during its first month of legalization. > Medical marijuana sales generated an additional $31.2 million, resulting in a combined total of $102.9 million in sales since Feb. 3, according to data from the Department of Health and Senior Services. https://www.komu.com/news/state/recreational-marijuana-sales-in-missouri-exceeds-70-million-in-first-month/article_fe5c63c2-bd27-11ed-9aae-8b032ff169bd.html https://www.komu.com/news/state/recreational-marijuana-sales...
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    I think it's "easy" in that since many people do it, they probably don't need to be hardcore gang members. I don't smoke weed, so my opinion may not be worth much, but if I did, I absolutely would prefer getting in from a somewhat regulated outfit and be sure that it's actually what I expect it to be. I don't know if adulterated weed is a thing, though. Sure, if between taxes and whatnot you end up with a price 100 times higher than your local dealer's, my point is moot. But I doubt that's the case. So if I could avoid having to deal with sketchy characters, that'd be a plus. I think growing your own is an entirely different question. My mom grows tomatoes, peppers and other stuff in her garden. I live in an apartment building, so I get mine from the local store. I do enjoy eating her home-grown produce when I visit, though. Maybe there's a market for "non-industrial-grown weed", too, as there is for farmers.
Banjor 4y ago
I would have thought the same.
whalesalad 4y ago
As municipalities begin to see more and more tax revenue from Cannabis sales the resistance to legalization will decrease more and more. Here in Michigan local communities are going to be receiving close to $60 million dollars based on 2022 sales. https://www.michigan.gov/treasury/news/2023/02/28/adult-use-marijuana-payments-being--distributed-to-michigan-municipalities-and-counties https://www.michigan.gov/treasury/news/2023/02/28/adult-use-... > Aside from the more than $59.5 million in disbursements to municipalities and counties, $69.4 million was sent to the School Aid Fund for K-12 education and another $69.4 million to the Michigan Transportation Fund. > In total, more than $1.8 billion in adult-use marijuana sales was reported for Fiscal Year 2022.
ParksNet 4y ago
What about usage levels for all other age groups?
monetus 4y ago
The reduction in fatalities is significant. Displacing other drugs seems to be the most obvious cause of that - but I am a reminder that defeating epilepsy/migraine complexes are enabling people to work, and enjoy pain/delirium-free time with others. This rings true to me - “perhaps marijuana and prescription pain medications are substitutes, but marijuana and heroin are not.”
kayo_20211030 4y ago
> The reason was believed to be that once drug dealers were replaced by dispensaries with a legal obligation to check ID, far fewer teens were able to access it. Replaced? In what way? I don't think they folded up their tents and went home, leaving the field to the dispensaries that checked ID. Dumbest thing I read today, and it's afternoon already.
yegle 4y ago
Did we have news back when prohibition ended 1933, about alcohol's various health benefits?
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  No, because prohibition was kind of popular because Americans were drinking ABSURD amounts of alcohol, like an average of 13 drinks a week, or 2.5 gallons of pure ethanol a year. However, prohibition had lots of bad side effects and people decided a government purposely poisoning them for consuming a substance that is as human as farming probably wasn't the right solution. Nobody thought alcohol was "healthy", and right now, the only people pushing pot as "healthy" are dumb stoners who are just anti-establishment types and think tanks that want to push medical weed as a foot in the door to legalization. It's propaganda basically. Also isn't this article about SOCIETAL effects of weed, not health effects?
xyzelement 4y ago
from the article: > it lowered the rates of suicide, binge drinking, traffic fatalities, and perhaps ironically, cannabis use in teenagers As someone who's generally been pro-pot, these benefits sound like an "improvement of really bad things" which, I wonder, is missing the "degradation of good things" anger of the story. For example, impact of smoking pot on obesity? I certainly was the fattest during the periods of my life when I smoked (because it led to things like eating a whole package of cheese at 2am, something I don't do otherwise) Or, on overall social outcomes? Are people meeting more people, making more friends, going on more dates - or are they increasingly sitting high alone in their room? Or, educational / professional ambitious outcome? Are people relatively less motivated to pursue these things as they are, on average, more high? I don't know the answers but I think it would be important to understand those, before we unilaterally celebrate that someone who would have been binge-drinking is just very high instead? Potentially, this type of thing can hurt a much larger number of people than is helped by the things mentioned in the story.

74 points by Clubber 4y ago

I’ve wondered how much of our homelessness crisis is due to psychotic breaks from marijuana. It’s a small fraction of users which have psychotic breaks, but our homelessness population is similarly small.

draw_down 4y ago
[dead]
devmor 4y ago
Is there any study or relevant data point that would lead you to believe this is happening? Or is it just a completely wild thought?
- brandall10 4y ago
  https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/there-link-between-marijuana-use-psychiatric-disorders https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - devmor 4y ago
    I meant on whether or not it has a significant representation in the homeless community - not that it exists.
    - jmpman 4y ago
      Would be interesting to see the homelessness rates in countries with very restricted marijuana access, like Japan, versus countries where it’s widely used. Or some other way to determine if marijuana usage increases homelessness.
jrsj 4y ago
Happens a lot more with stimulants, meth being the worst. Amphetamine psychosis can be permanent & irreversible with heavy enough use.
wahnfrieden 4y ago
You think homeless people have only themselves and their own actions to blame?
giraffe_lady 4y ago
Very little of it. The causes of homelessness are pretty well understood and it's basically poverty, high housing costs, low wages, lack of access to affordable medical care. Being homeless also does a number on your mental health and my intuition says a lot of those "psychotic breaks" were experiences of homelessness, not causes.
- jmpman 4y ago
  I had a friend who experienced a psychotic break following marijuana use. He was a moderate user, weekends only, for a dozen years prior. If he didn’t have such excellent support structure around him, I’d expect him to be homeless now.
phren0logy 4y ago
I'm a psychiatrist who works with lots of people who are homeless and mentally ill. My experience faces a strong selection bias in that I don't see the homeless people who don't have marked symptoms of mental illness. The ones who come to my attention usually have delusions and hallucinations. Beyond anecdotes, there's some reasonable and ongoing research on the topic. Methamphetamine remains far more strongly associated with psychosis than cannabis, but both anecdotes and research support that THC extracts are considerably more likely to cause psychosis than whole flowers. There also seems to be something protective about CBD, so THC extract (dabs/oil) products appear to carry more risk due to both their high THC content and the absence of CBD. People who use cannabis heavily in adolescence also have an increased risk of developing a psychotic disorder.
- mrosett 4y ago
  Interesting response. Subjectively, do you THC-linked psychosis regularly?
  - phren0logy 4y ago
    Again, strong selection bias, but yes. THC stays in your system for a long time. It can take a while to figure out if the issue is a primary psychotic disorder, like Schizophrenia, that has been exacerbated by THC or if it's only drug-induced. I occasionally see cases that appear to be completely accounted for by THC, but at a far lower rate than meth-induced psychosis.
    - tarotuser 4y ago
      I'm also curious, since you work in psychiatry.... Have you seen any cases of scromiting, or "Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome"? These articles showed up in a big online hit in mid-2022, and never seemingly referenced again. My pessimism indicated that it was likely a hit piece against cannabis, but I'd rather ask for sure than just assume some conspiracy.
      - phren0logy 4y ago
RajT88 4y ago
I'd look to alcohol first. It's been legal for much more of the modern age, and certainly also carries with it the risk of psychosis. And as the other commenter points out, "Whither Meth?" Probably all of these things are contributing factors, in some form.
w______roy 4y ago
Having a psychotic break doesn't suddenly make you homeless. You would need a psychotic break + lack of healthcare + lack of family/friends/support network + lack of money + lack of social programs + lack of affordable housing. The idea that people just one day lose their minds and wander out into the street is not supported by my experiences working with and interacting with unhoused people.

sparrish 4y ago

"estimate the effects of [medical marijuana law] adoption on traffic fatality rates". Every pothead I get stuck behind here in Colorado is going 15 under the speed limit. Hard to get in a fatal accident going 20.

mbostleman 4y ago
Except that what's fatal is high relative, not absolute, speed.
- pksebben 4y ago
  what you did there, I see it.
- htag 4y ago
  It seems like a large claim to say that an accident between someone going 60 and 40mph is as fatal as an accident between someone going 60 and 80. I would need to see empirical evidence to consider the claim. Absolute speed is one of the key values indicating how much energy is in a car crash.
  - riffic 4y ago
    people who study the traffic safety problem area will generally avoid saying the word "accident", just for your information. https://www.grahamfeest.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/accident-or-crash-does-the-terminology-really-matter.pdf https://www.grahamfeest.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/accid...
    - PopAlongKid 4y ago
      Such an over-long and redundant article. However, they do make a point (twice) that is no longer true: >Only about 10% of accidents are caused by vehicle error, weather, or another non- human-related event. Clearly the self-driving feature of more recently-made vehicles is going to, if not already doing so, cause more than 10% of crashes.
  - 4y ago

beepbooptheory 4y ago

> One criticism from concerned parents or conservative politicians was that increased legalization would lead to increased teenage consumption of cannabis....It’s a criticism that exemplifies the theory of the author Jonathan Haidt, who showed in his classic volume The Righteous Mind that most people form their opnions by making an emotional conclusion—teenage consumption of cannabis is bad—and then using ad-hoc rationalization backwards to find whatever intuitive reasoning is needed to justify their gut instinct. I don't understand how this exemplifies this. Isn't the worry just much simpler: legalization creates in general more accessible weed, and so more teens could get it? Not to comment on the fact that this was retrospectively a misguided concern. Just don't understand Haidt's relevance here. (Not to mention its a little weird to feel the need to credit him with this idea, isn't just kind of a truism?)

edgyquant 4y ago
How is the concern misguided? I’ve heard people say use is down since legalization but I’ve never seen them provide data and that isn’t the case in Washington state. It’s trending up across all age groups. https://doh.wa.gov/data-statistical-reports/washington-tracking-network-wtn/marijuana-and-tobacco/dashboard https://doh.wa.gov/data-statistical-reports/washington-track...
- beepbooptheory 4y ago
  I don't know, but like that's not the point of my comment!
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    Maybe not but > the fact that this was retrospectively a misguided concern You claimed it was a “fact” and it’s not. It’s misinformation that should be pushed back against.
p0pcult 4y ago
>legalization creates in general more accessible weed, and so more teens could get it? When I was an NYC middle school teacher, one of my students offered to get me all of the weed I wanted, if I could get him some beer for his party. The illegal, unregulated weed was obviously far more available to him than the legal, regulated alchohol. That argument doesn't hold.

robg 4y ago

Makes sense as a replacement for alcohol, one is a plant the other is a distilled poison.

danjac 4y ago

Living in a country where marijuana consumption is still illegal (as in, you go to jail or at least get a criminal record, not even decriminalized) the frustrating thing is that when medical evidence is up against public prejudice and ignorance, the politicians will always side with the public rather than the science.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ElevenLathe 4y ago
Democracy is when politicians respond to public opinion rather than experts. Great problem to have IMO.
- p0pcult 4y ago
  Is it though?
- danjac 4y ago
  If a politician believes a course of action is beneficial, and public opinion disagrees with them, then they should persuade the public to change their opinion. That's kind of how democracy has worked since ancient Greece.

graphe 4y ago

Marijuana use is linked to psychosis and schizophrenia. How do we index positive health outcomes? Teenage use statistically goes down while a few years ago vitamin e oil killed people.

cma 4y ago
Legal trouble and jail probably causes some disorders to manifest (like extreme anxiety).
renewedrebecca 4y ago
...in people who are already disposed to these disorders.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > ...in people who are already disposed to these disorders. So? If the disorder would have otherwise remained latent in an individual, and marijuana was the environmental factor that caused it to manifest itself, then that's definitely a negative health outcome of marijuana.
  - loeg 4y ago
    We don't have anything close to evidence of a causal relationship.
harimau777 4y ago
For medical applications of marijuana it might be possible to somewhat objectively quantify the positive results. However, it is probably not possible to objectively quantify the positive results recreational use (increased creativity, recreation, fellowship, etc.). It seems to me that the larger issue is the significant negative results of criminalization.

sashablacks 4y ago

[dead]

sarojmoh1 4y ago

I let marijuana destroy my life. For about a year, I experienced all the benefits ppl use it for. Then all of a sudden I would get panic attacks and full-on psychosis. I would not wish these episodes on my worst enemy. The smell of it is so ubiquitous now that it's legal and it's a great deal of anxiety for someone like me. I acknowledge its benefits and that I'm probably a rare case. But it is disturbing to me how mainstream it's become. Certainly..some ppl will face the same repercussions I went through and I don't want that to happen. I still think it should be controlled medically and not as available as lotto tickets

whalesalad 4y ago
Live and let live.
jerrygenser 4y ago
> I still think it should be controlled medically and not as available as lotto tickets You could make the same argument for alcohol... it can destroy lives and yet is still legal.
- valenaut 4y ago
  Likewise for lotto tickets.
- andersentobias 4y ago
  I know that psychosis on alcohol happens, but I have never personally seen a person get psychotic from alcohol. Cannabis on the other hand...
  - bitcoin_anon 4y ago
    Have you ever been to a bar?
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      Been to Oktoberfest. All of the Brit, Irish, Canadian and Australian members of the crew could not believe that much alcohol in one place without any barfights/disputes/blah. “This event wouldn’t be possible in Ireland”

invalidusernam3 4y ago

Personally I feel like marijuana legalisation is a no brainer. It's the most used illegal drug in the world so it's incredibly easy to get hold of regardless of its legal status. At least with legalisation it can be regulated and taxed. I would expect any social impact could be mitigated with education. Also legalisation would prevent people from having to interact with illegal dealers who may or may not be selling other more dangerous drugs.

mcculley 4y ago
> it's incredibly easy to get hold of regardless of its legal status > At least with legalisation it can be regulated and taxed. If it is so easy to acquire, how will legalization result necessarily in regulation and taxation? I am sure some users would go the legal route, but I am aware of people in states that legalized who still grow and sell their own to avoid taxes.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Missouri has generated $70M in recreational marijuana sales revenue in the first month after recreational legalization. Some people will avoid taxes via black market route but most will take the path of least resistance. Doctors hand out medical cards liberally, so that’s a cheat code if you can’t afford recreational taxes and are willing to put the effort in (medical is usually taxed at a lower rate). > Recreational cannabis sales in Missouri generated $71.7 million in revenue during its first month of legalization. > Medical marijuana sales generated an additional $31.2 million, resulting in a combined total of $102.9 million in sales since Feb. 3, according to data from the Department of Health and Senior Services. https://www.komu.com/news/state/recreational-marijuana-sales-in-missouri-exceeds-70-million-in-first-month/article_fe5c63c2-bd27-11ed-9aae-8b032ff169bd.html https://www.komu.com/news/state/recreational-marijuana-sales...
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  I think it's "easy" in that since many people do it, they probably don't need to be hardcore gang members. I don't smoke weed, so my opinion may not be worth much, but if I did, I absolutely would prefer getting in from a somewhat regulated outfit and be sure that it's actually what I expect it to be. I don't know if adulterated weed is a thing, though. Sure, if between taxes and whatnot you end up with a price 100 times higher than your local dealer's, my point is moot. But I doubt that's the case. So if I could avoid having to deal with sketchy characters, that'd be a plus. I think growing your own is an entirely different question. My mom grows tomatoes, peppers and other stuff in her garden. I live in an apartment building, so I get mine from the local store. I do enjoy eating her home-grown produce when I visit, though. Maybe there's a market for "non-industrial-grown weed", too, as there is for farmers.

Banjor 4y ago

I would have thought the same.

whalesalad 4y ago

As municipalities begin to see more and more tax revenue from Cannabis sales the resistance to legalization will decrease more and more. Here in Michigan local communities are going to be receiving close to $60 million dollars based on 2022 sales. https://www.michigan.gov/treasury/news/2023/02/28/adult-use-marijuana-payments-being--distributed-to-michigan-municipalities-and-counties https://www.michigan.gov/treasury/news/2023/02/28/adult-use-... > Aside from the more than $59.5 million in disbursements to municipalities and counties, $69.4 million was sent to the School Aid Fund for K-12 education and another $69.4 million to the Michigan Transportation Fund. > In total, more than $1.8 billion in adult-use marijuana sales was reported for Fiscal Year 2022.

ParksNet 4y ago

What about usage levels for all other age groups?

monetus 4y ago

The reduction in fatalities is significant. Displacing other drugs seems to be the most obvious cause of that - but I am a reminder that defeating epilepsy/migraine complexes are enabling people to work, and enjoy pain/delirium-free time with others. This rings true to me - “perhaps marijuana and prescription pain medications are substitutes, but marijuana and heroin are not.”

kayo_20211030 4y ago

> The reason was believed to be that once drug dealers were replaced by dispensaries with a legal obligation to check ID, far fewer teens were able to access it. Replaced? In what way? I don't think they folded up their tents and went home, leaving the field to the dispensaries that checked ID. Dumbest thing I read today, and it's afternoon already.

yegle 4y ago

Did we have news back when prohibition ended 1933, about alcohol's various health benefits?

mrguyorama 4y ago
No, because prohibition was kind of popular because Americans were drinking ABSURD amounts of alcohol, like an average of 13 drinks a week, or 2.5 gallons of pure ethanol a year. However, prohibition had lots of bad side effects and people decided a government purposely poisoning them for consuming a substance that is as human as farming probably wasn't the right solution. Nobody thought alcohol was "healthy", and right now, the only people pushing pot as "healthy" are dumb stoners who are just anti-establishment types and think tanks that want to push medical weed as a foot in the door to legalization. It's propaganda basically. Also isn't this article about SOCIETAL effects of weed, not health effects?

xyzelement 4y ago

from the article: > it lowered the rates of suicide, binge drinking, traffic fatalities, and perhaps ironically, cannabis use in teenagers As someone who's generally been pro-pot, these benefits sound like an "improvement of really bad things" which, I wonder, is missing the "degradation of good things" anger of the story. For example, impact of smoking pot on obesity? I certainly was the fattest during the periods of my life when I smoked (because it led to things like eating a whole package of cheese at 2am, something I don't do otherwise) Or, on overall social outcomes? Are people meeting more people, making more friends, going on more dates - or are they increasingly sitting high alone in their room? Or, educational / professional ambitious outcome? Are people relatively less motivated to pursue these things as they are, on average, more high? I don't know the answers but I think it would be important to understand those, before we unilaterally celebrate that someone who would have been binge-drinking is just very high instead? Potentially, this type of thing can hurt a much larger number of people than is helped by the things mentioned in the story.