15 ms·

That is always my initial thought... until I remind myself that audiophile products exist, and they are being bought by somebody! Trolling on internet is cheap/

That is always my initial thought... until I remind myself that audiophile products exist, and they are being bought by somebody! Trolling on internet is cheap/free; buying audiophile equipment is not :O

ajuc 4y ago
I think these people are kids of 70s-80s who dreamed of hi-fi gear back then and now can afford it but it's no longer a thing. They are paying for nostalgia.
- arlcode 4y ago
  There might be something to this. Sometimes I noticed older people going into tech discussion about things which were super important once but no longer is relevant. Most are able to recognize their nostalgia as such and are willing to accept it (e.g. by doing cb radio or retro game development on deliberately limited hardware).
  - whstl 4y ago
    I see this a lot with guitars, too. Lots of 60+ people trying to find the holy grail they dreamed about when they were kids. But HOW can a 2000, 1000 USD guitar be a "holy grail"? So they end up with collections of six, seven, eight high-end Les Pauls, Strats, etc. Or perhaps buying USD 5000+ custom shop instruments. Some of them get to collections of 30, 50, 60. Of course it's a lot of fun, and not as expensive as, say, a Cello or Oboe collection. So I get why they do it. But as someone who moves often, I'd rather have just one :D
lbriner 4y ago
I think there is probably more psychology going on than people think. I know people are assure me that some weird Swiss water contraption (a piece of wood) makes water taste noticeably better and "aligns molecules" and what have you. I can imagine someone giving you a taste and you already assume it must be nicer so you confirm the lie. It is also possible that other variables like the fact it has been standing in a jug for longer allowing the chlorine to evaporate make people think that it tastes nicer for the wrong reason.
- whstl 4y ago
  Man... I remember as a kid we had salesmen going around in our neighborhood selling "water magnetizers", and asking people to A-B-taste magnetic and normal water. A neighbor ended up buying the thing! And it was actually expensive, it wasn't a 10 bucks scam. It required ordering and took a few weeks to arrive. Then I went to check it out and it was just a cover for those commercial watercooler bottles with some magnets. But they swore their water tasted better.
foobarian 4y ago
I always figured it's grownups LARP-ing and not realizing it. Remember how fun that was as kids?
newman314 4y ago
This is insanity... Accidentally, clicked on a link for audiophile network switches and my brain just hurts from reading the article. You have been warned. https://darko.audio/2018/03/for-the-audiophile-who-has-everything-telegartners-m12-switch-gold/ https://darko.audio/2018/03/for-the-audiophile-who-has-every... "Think about that for a moment: the network streamer is directly connected to a router designed for functionality but with zero made concession to audiophile sensitivities."
zerr 4y ago
A brain is subjective. I believe many audiophiles indeed perceive audio quality difference so those products do really make a difference for them.
- skinpop 4y ago
  The trick is that people really do hear differences when first listening to a new piece of audiophile gear, it's just that the difference doesn't come from the new hardware but from the very act of listening carefully to hear differences . This is a skill that can be improved with practice, it's called critical listening. When audiophiles do it by accident(or because they are told to listen for "details") they basically delude themselves into thinking the hardware really is different. Once the effect wears off and they start listening passively like normal, they go looking for the next thing to improve.
Quekid5 4y ago
I'm sure there are plenty of True Believers... which is why you see plenty of products, because there are plenty of Grifters out there. And I'll bet the latter are also producing lots of "content" which appears and purports to be written by True Believers.
spoonjim 4y ago
When you sell a power cable for $1000 you only need to sell one to make it worth your while to produce. Many of these products move ~0 units.
skripp 4y ago
It's hard not to be cynical here... the trolls might very well be the ones selling the equipment.
mschuster91 4y ago
Well, if there is a market of nutcases, people will peddle to that market. I mean... people pay for reading the stars, tarot cards, or for literal chlorine bleach [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement
- oarsinsync 4y ago
  > I mean... people pay for reading the stars, tarot cards I used to consider these to be pretty worthless things too. After a while I started to realise that a lot of these things provide a lot of the same random platitudes that therapists typically provide too. Given that therapists are a bit of a dice roll as far as the quality of advice you get, why not just instead make the advice given itself a dice roll. At that point, there’s a non negligible probability that the advice given by a half decent palm / star / tarot reader might actually be relevant. Sure, it’s all just chance and luck, but when the advice ends up being relevant (or becomes self fulfilling in its relevance) and actually helps the receiver, why not? (These learnings are brought to you by my ex who very patiently explained to me one of the ways I was an asshole when we were together. I’m now a bit more open minded and keep my eye rolls to myself behind my sunglasses)
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    You must have had some pretty bad therapists to compare all of them to tarot cards.
  - benj111 4y ago
    But if I buy a lottery ticket, there's theoretically a chance of winning, even though I never actually will. It would still be fraud if someone sold lottery tickets for a lottery that never was. Tarot readers are selling a fake good. You can't really escape the ethical implications of that.
    - dwringer 4y ago
      As long as the fortune is vague enough to apply to more than 40-50 people, then the chance of a fabricated fortune-telling for you coming true simply by pure random coincidence seems to be greater than the chance of winning the lottery.
Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
Yeah they are bought by the true believers (or the completely ignorant)
rhinoceraptor 4y ago
My favorite is audiophile network switches. Never mind the fact that two devices connected with RJ45 ethernet have no direct electrical connection since signalling is done via transformer coupling, so it is impossible to have a ground loop. Never mind the fact that it is a digital signal and audio streaming has robust error correction via TCP. For the low, low price of $3800, you can be the proud owner of an audiophile grade, 100Base-T network switch: https://innuos.com/phoenixnet/ https://innuos.com/phoenixnet/
- mister_tee 4y ago
  And to go with that you can use $500 ethernet cables, with directional arrows painted on. ACK, and that's not talking about TCP (sorry). https://www.wired.com/2008/06/snake-oil-alert/ https://www.wired.com/2008/06/snake-oil-alert/ (unfortunately this was from Denon who I've had great luck with an entry-ish-level AVR from for years)
  - The_SamminAter 4y ago
    https://archive.is/k3Miw https://archive.is/k3Miw
- outworlder 4y ago
  > Never mind the fact that two devices connected with RJ45 ethernet have no direct electrical connection > For the low, low price of $3800, you can be the proud owner of an audiophile grade, 100Base-T network switch That buys you a seriously good piece of switching gear with 10GBe (or even higher) fiber optic links to whatever devices you could possibly want in a home. Heck, even a little over $100 buys you a switch with 4 SFP+ (Mikrotik CRS305). I guess audiophiles will claim that the optical transceivers introduce latency and _they can hear it_
  - acje 4y ago
    The absolute pain when the entire song is delayed by 10ns or what not. If only I could compensate by pushing play a little bit faster.
originalcopying 4y ago
it's not in any way different from 'designer' clothing or handbags and such kinds of things. one amongst the many ways to signal status to 'peers'
- dagw 4y ago
  Except no one thinks that a designer handbag is objectively better at carrying things or that designer jeans objectively makes walking easier and more fun. Audiophiles keep arguing that the things they do and buy are better for objective reasons. Had they said "I bought these expensive network cables because I like the way they look and they match my furniture" that would be an entirely different thing.
  - gs17 4y ago
    Exactly, not just "objectively better", but "objectively better in a way only other bagophiles can tell, which makes no sense to anyone else". I could see different pants designs/materials making walking better, but this would be more like "these pants are more comfortable because the cotton was spun clockwise to match your DNA".
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
karmakaze 4y ago
Being an audiophile when you have lots of money isn't much different than buying NFTs--it's merely a status you hold by owning whatever the kooky consensus of 'best' is and being involved in making that determination.
- testfoobar 4y ago
  I feel the same way about wine snobs.
  - karmakaze 4y ago
    I thought that's a bit different, because they're playing a game of 1-upmanship about being able to discern flavor/scent. I suppose it is the same: ears vs nose. I have however been shocked by how good a meal was with a proper wine pairing--having it being a firework of taste in my mouth and wishing I had the knowledge to know how to pick wines for meals.
    - XajniN 4y ago
      The meal would taste even better without the wine
    - dagw 4y ago
      Like wine, most audio tech and most "audiophiles" is entirely reasonable. Listening to your favourite album on a $10000 hifi setup is a much better experience than listening to it over Spotify on the cheap earbuds that came with your phone. Some speakers do obviously sound better that others, and how you place those speakers in your room objectively has an effect on how good they sound. People with good ears can absolutely hear the difference between cheap and expensive amps and DACs. The problem is that a small percentage of people don't stop there and start chasing smaller and smaller 'improvements' in the experience until they're forced to make things up and delude themselves to find a new 'high'.
      - karmakaze 4y ago
        Perhaps not unlike software dev and premature optimization.

ajuc 4y ago

I think these people are kids of 70s-80s who dreamed of hi-fi gear back then and now can afford it but it's no longer a thing. They are paying for nostalgia.

arlcode 4y ago
There might be something to this. Sometimes I noticed older people going into tech discussion about things which were super important once but no longer is relevant. Most are able to recognize their nostalgia as such and are willing to accept it (e.g. by doing cb radio or retro game development on deliberately limited hardware).
- whstl 4y ago
  I see this a lot with guitars, too. Lots of 60+ people trying to find the holy grail they dreamed about when they were kids. But HOW can a 2000, 1000 USD guitar be a "holy grail"? So they end up with collections of six, seven, eight high-end Les Pauls, Strats, etc. Or perhaps buying USD 5000+ custom shop instruments. Some of them get to collections of 30, 50, 60. Of course it's a lot of fun, and not as expensive as, say, a Cello or Oboe collection. So I get why they do it. But as someone who moves often, I'd rather have just one :D

lbriner 4y ago

I think there is probably more psychology going on than people think. I know people are assure me that some weird Swiss water contraption (a piece of wood) makes water taste noticeably better and "aligns molecules" and what have you. I can imagine someone giving you a taste and you already assume it must be nicer so you confirm the lie. It is also possible that other variables like the fact it has been standing in a jug for longer allowing the chlorine to evaporate make people think that it tastes nicer for the wrong reason.

whstl 4y ago
Man... I remember as a kid we had salesmen going around in our neighborhood selling "water magnetizers", and asking people to A-B-taste magnetic and normal water. A neighbor ended up buying the thing! And it was actually expensive, it wasn't a 10 bucks scam. It required ordering and took a few weeks to arrive. Then I went to check it out and it was just a cover for those commercial watercooler bottles with some magnets. But they swore their water tasted better.

foobarian 4y ago

I always figured it's grownups LARP-ing and not realizing it. Remember how fun that was as kids?

newman314 4y ago

This is insanity... Accidentally, clicked on a link for audiophile network switches and my brain just hurts from reading the article. You have been warned. https://darko.audio/2018/03/for-the-audiophile-who-has-everything-telegartners-m12-switch-gold/ https://darko.audio/2018/03/for-the-audiophile-who-has-every... "Think about that for a moment: the network streamer is directly connected to a router designed for functionality but with zero made concession to audiophile sensitivities."

zerr 4y ago

A brain is subjective. I believe many audiophiles indeed perceive audio quality difference so those products do really make a difference for them.

skinpop 4y ago
The trick is that people really do hear differences when first listening to a new piece of audiophile gear, it's just that the difference doesn't come from the new hardware but from the very act of listening carefully to hear differences . This is a skill that can be improved with practice, it's called critical listening. When audiophiles do it by accident(or because they are told to listen for "details") they basically delude themselves into thinking the hardware really is different. Once the effect wears off and they start listening passively like normal, they go looking for the next thing to improve.

Quekid5 4y ago

I'm sure there are plenty of True Believers... which is why you see plenty of products, because there are plenty of Grifters out there. And I'll bet the latter are also producing lots of "content" which appears and purports to be written by True Believers.

spoonjim 4y ago

When you sell a power cable for $1000 you only need to sell one to make it worth your while to produce. Many of these products move ~0 units.

skripp 4y ago

It's hard not to be cynical here... the trolls might very well be the ones selling the equipment.

mschuster91 4y ago

Well, if there is a market of nutcases, people will peddle to that market. I mean... people pay for reading the stars, tarot cards, or for literal chlorine bleach [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement

oarsinsync 4y ago
> I mean... people pay for reading the stars, tarot cards I used to consider these to be pretty worthless things too. After a while I started to realise that a lot of these things provide a lot of the same random platitudes that therapists typically provide too. Given that therapists are a bit of a dice roll as far as the quality of advice you get, why not just instead make the advice given itself a dice roll. At that point, there’s a non negligible probability that the advice given by a half decent palm / star / tarot reader might actually be relevant. Sure, it’s all just chance and luck, but when the advice ends up being relevant (or becomes self fulfilling in its relevance) and actually helps the receiver, why not? (These learnings are brought to you by my ex who very patiently explained to me one of the ways I was an asshole when we were together. I’m now a bit more open minded and keep my eye rolls to myself behind my sunglasses)
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  You must have had some pretty bad therapists to compare all of them to tarot cards.
- benj111 4y ago
  But if I buy a lottery ticket, there's theoretically a chance of winning, even though I never actually will. It would still be fraud if someone sold lottery tickets for a lottery that never was. Tarot readers are selling a fake good. You can't really escape the ethical implications of that.
  - dwringer 4y ago
    As long as the fortune is vague enough to apply to more than 40-50 people, then the chance of a fabricated fortune-telling for you coming true simply by pure random coincidence seems to be greater than the chance of winning the lottery.

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago

Yeah they are bought by the true believers (or the completely ignorant)

rhinoceraptor 4y ago

My favorite is audiophile network switches. Never mind the fact that two devices connected with RJ45 ethernet have no direct electrical connection since signalling is done via transformer coupling, so it is impossible to have a ground loop. Never mind the fact that it is a digital signal and audio streaming has robust error correction via TCP. For the low, low price of $3800, you can be the proud owner of an audiophile grade, 100Base-T network switch: https://innuos.com/phoenixnet/ https://innuos.com/phoenixnet/

mister_tee 4y ago
And to go with that you can use $500 ethernet cables, with directional arrows painted on. ACK, and that's not talking about TCP (sorry). https://www.wired.com/2008/06/snake-oil-alert/ https://www.wired.com/2008/06/snake-oil-alert/ (unfortunately this was from Denon who I've had great luck with an entry-ish-level AVR from for years)
- The_SamminAter 4y ago
  https://archive.is/k3Miw https://archive.is/k3Miw
outworlder 4y ago
> Never mind the fact that two devices connected with RJ45 ethernet have no direct electrical connection > For the low, low price of $3800, you can be the proud owner of an audiophile grade, 100Base-T network switch That buys you a seriously good piece of switching gear with 10GBe (or even higher) fiber optic links to whatever devices you could possibly want in a home. Heck, even a little over $100 buys you a switch with 4 SFP+ (Mikrotik CRS305). I guess audiophiles will claim that the optical transceivers introduce latency and _they can hear it_
- acje 4y ago
  The absolute pain when the entire song is delayed by 10ns or what not. If only I could compensate by pushing play a little bit faster.

originalcopying 4y ago

it's not in any way different from 'designer' clothing or handbags and such kinds of things. one amongst the many ways to signal status to 'peers'

dagw 4y ago
Except no one thinks that a designer handbag is objectively better at carrying things or that designer jeans objectively makes walking easier and more fun. Audiophiles keep arguing that the things they do and buy are better for objective reasons. Had they said "I bought these expensive network cables because I like the way they look and they match my furniture" that would be an entirely different thing.
- gs17 4y ago
  Exactly, not just "objectively better", but "objectively better in a way only other bagophiles can tell, which makes no sense to anyone else". I could see different pants designs/materials making walking better, but this would be more like "these pants are more comfortable because the cotton was spun clockwise to match your DNA".
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

karmakaze 4y ago

Being an audiophile when you have lots of money isn't much different than buying NFTs--it's merely a status you hold by owning whatever the kooky consensus of 'best' is and being involved in making that determination.

testfoobar 4y ago
I feel the same way about wine snobs.
- karmakaze 4y ago
  I thought that's a bit different, because they're playing a game of 1-upmanship about being able to discern flavor/scent. I suppose it is the same: ears vs nose. I have however been shocked by how good a meal was with a proper wine pairing--having it being a firework of taste in my mouth and wishing I had the knowledge to know how to pick wines for meals.
  - XajniN 4y ago
    The meal would taste even better without the wine
  - dagw 4y ago
    Like wine, most audio tech and most "audiophiles" is entirely reasonable. Listening to your favourite album on a $10000 hifi setup is a much better experience than listening to it over Spotify on the cheap earbuds that came with your phone. Some speakers do obviously sound better that others, and how you place those speakers in your room objectively has an effect on how good they sound. People with good ears can absolutely hear the difference between cheap and expensive amps and DACs. The problem is that a small percentage of people don't stop there and start chasing smaller and smaller 'improvements' in the experience until they're forced to make things up and delude themselves to find a new 'high'.
    - karmakaze 4y ago
      Perhaps not unlike software dev and premature optimization.