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They have this feature but closing the lid on a MacBook or even putting it to sleep allows Bluetooth devices to stay connected. Heck, a MacBook even while in sl

They have this feature but closing the lid on a MacBook or even putting it to sleep allows Bluetooth devices to stay connected. Heck, a MacBook even while in sleep mode will connect to Bluetooth devices. As far as I can see, this requires a third-party app to fix. Can an application still use the microphone on a Bluetooth device that’s connected?

altairprime 4y ago
Yes, I videoconference regularly from a closed-lid MacBook with a Bluetooth headset.
dvirsky 4y ago
This has to be the most annoying thing in MacOS. My laptop, soundly sleeping in my backpack, takes over my bluetooth headphones all the time.
- supermdguy 4y ago
  I hate that this isn't configurable by default, but bluesnooze solved this for me: https://github.com/odlp/bluesnooze https://github.com/odlp/bluesnooze
  - jbj 4y ago
    this comments reminds me about owning a mac and installing a github repo to allow mouse scrolling direction to not be tied to touch pad scrolling [edit] just following up, it was UnnaturalScrollWheels, which have been notarized: https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels/releases/tag/1.2.3 https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels/releases/tag...
    - addandsubtract 4y ago
      The zoom scroll is disconnected from the scroll direction as well. I'm not sure if they fixed it by now or if I just got used to it, but it was super disorienting when I noticed it.
    - jdlyga 4y ago
      We typically use LinearMouse for this. Allows you to even set scrolling direction, scroll speed, acceleration profile, etc per mouse. But yeah, MacOS is a little like Gnome Shell. It requires a few basic apps to make it usable, but after that it's pretty excellent.
      - radlad 4y ago
        Thanks for mentioning LinearMouse. I've previously used Scroll Reverser so it's nice to hear of other options in this space.[0] [0] https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/ https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/
        graynk 4y ago
        MOS [0] is also pretty good, if you like smooth scroll. [0] https://mos.caldis.me/ https://mos.caldis.me/
      - gligorot 4y ago
        Do you have a list of helpful apps?
    - jraph 4y ago
      Hello 2005 GNU/Linux! Installing random packages to fix OS stuff that should work out of the box was fun for a while :-)
      - naikrovek 4y ago
        here's the thing, though: "working as intended" and "working as you intend" are very different things. no operating system ever has arrived on a user's computer completely configurable to any given user's preferences. you're complaining about something that simply isn't possible without third party software and time spent by the user in question.
        ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        > "working as intended" and "working as you intend" are very different things. You're holding it wrong
    - 0cVlTeIATBs 4y ago
      I was surprised by needing to do this when switch to MacOS. So many things don't "just work" despite all that I've heard about it.
      - JohnBooty 4y ago
        Overwhelmingly, it does "just work" as Apple intended. However, it's often quite opinionated. So Apple's intended functionality may or may not jive with your preferences. This is neither a defense nor criticism of Apple, and it's not a defense or criticism of your preferences either. I will point out that anecdotally, I don't hear too many people wanting their mouse's scrolling to work in the opposite direction as their trackpad. I think Apple's probably got well over 99% of the userbase covered with the defaults and opinions here. From a software/QA/UX perspective things get wild pretty quickly if you cover every < 1% use case.
        goosedragons 4y ago
        That setting is particularly terrible because they mirror it in both "mouse" and "trackpad" settings or at least that's how they used to do it. So it SEEMS like you can have independent settings for a mouse and trackpad but they control the same thing (which is equally weird, does any other setting do that?).
        karaterobot 4y ago
        FWIW, I think the phrase "just works" implies that you, the user, should expect it to work without any tweaks or workarounds. So, the user's preferences are implied. Saying that it just works in many cases, or that it just works for Apple is not what is implied by that marketing. It's a strong promise that was chosen for a reason, and in many cases they do not live up to it.
        taneq 4y ago
        Do they still use that line? While some of their newer stuff does meet that standard, a lot more “just works if you already know what it does“ (eg. AirPods need to be in the case to pair… why?) and still more seems kinda random (fk you iOS keyboard.)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - chenghuzi 4y ago
    you can just use hammerspoon to get the same effect, turning off the bluetooth/wifi right after entering sleep mode and turning them back on when the Mac is unlocked.
- tbarbugli 4y ago
  I had the same, switching to Airpods “fixed” this problem. I doubt Apple will ever do something about this, bt audio works fine as long as you use iPhone, Macbook and Apple pods
  - cortesoft 4y ago
    I have AirPods, but the experience still sucks with multiple devices. I have my phone, my laptop, my iPad, and two iPads for my kids, all on my account. I literally am unable to make my kid’s iPads forget my AirPods, because it is tied to the apple account. If I have the iPads forget them, it forgets them on all my devices. It is annoying as hell, I have to leave Bluetooth off on my kids iPads.
    - zamnos 4y ago
      Umm, your children's accounts are on children accounts and not literally your account though, right? Because that could cause problems down the line. https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/set-up-a-childs-device-iphfd0b65920/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/set-up-a-childs-devic...
      - hamburglar 4y ago
        “Ummm” aside, this is not at all obvious. I have an iPad from before I had kids. When setting it up, I was asked to enter my Apple ID, so I did. Then came kids and a new use for this iPad, and a second iPad, which obviously needed the same apps, and a third. No, it never occurred to me to set up appleids specifically for toddlers. It did eventually prompt me to set up a new “iPads” appleid when I switched from android to iPhone and suddenly discovered that all my text messages were being delivered to my children. But the ipads are family devices, not per-child, and if apple thinks I’m going to give each kid an appleid, they aren’t paying attention to how people actually want to use their devices.
        zamnos 4y ago
        "Umm aside" not-aside, I'm sorry for triggering you. it's too late for me to edit my comment and take that out but I would if I could. So this may not be obvious to you, but what's obvious to someone isn't necessarily obvious to other people, and vice versa. In any case, I can see why creating a separate account if you only have toddlers seems too onerous. Don't worry though, they'll become teenagers who want (and deserve) the autonomy and agency of having their own account before you know it, even if sharing your photos to their idevice wasn't enough to motivate you. Separate accounts seems the most reasonably way do implement a shared but-not-system to preserve privacy, a favorite reason Apple cites as their reason for doing things. I'm not sure how else Apple could do a shared system for teens. I think there's a hack involving getting a cheap phone number for each toddler, adding that to iCloud, then disabling message delivery to that number but I haven't tested it.
- cj 4y ago
  Similarly, whenever I'm working at my kitchen table I always "lose" my mouse as if there's another monitor connected. I realized a couple weeks later MacOS display continuity (or "sidecar"?) was connecting to my Mac Mini located directly upstairs using it as a 2nd monitor while I'm downstairs. My apple watch also regularly unlocks my Mac Mini when I'm downstairs (Mac Mini in a bedroom upstairs). All of these features pose serious security issues if your physical location isn't secure/trusted. There really should be a "Travel Mode" for MacOS that disables features like these. No one wants airport security to open a laptop and have the apple watch immediately unlock it for them while standing 20 feet away (or in another room).
  - jackson1442 4y ago
    Definitely should be an os-level feature to disable all that, similar to using panic mode on ios to disable biometrics. I personally boot my laptops to the filevault screen and no further when going through the security checkpoints. Keeps the disk encrypted and requires my password to continue.
    - highwaylights 4y ago
      “Would you like to enter the password before or after I check in the back to see if we have any latex gloves left, sir?”
      - mikepurvis 4y ago
        Doesn't look like Filevault has a duress option— otherwise it'd be pretty nice to have a separate password that boots you to a dummy partition showing a fresh desktop install with apparently nothing on it. For bonus points, you could have the dummy OS kernel-patched so that it doesn't even show the other partitions as existing, and just pretends it's occupying the whole disk with mostly empty space. "That computer? Oh yeah, I just picked it up, officer; was going to start configuring it when when I arrive at my destination."
        Someone 4y ago
- dom96 4y ago
  I have gotten used to switching off Bluetooth on my mac before closing the lid because of this. Infuriating.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  I don't understand why the bluetooth-stealing happens so often. I'll literally be in the middle of a podcast on my phone, and my iPad in the next room (on which my kids have been watching something) will take over my headphones. There's no change in state on either device (not stopping/starting), and I haven't moved close to the iPad (and the iPhone is much closer, in my pocket). I just have to turn off bluetooth entirely on the iPad to avoid this.
  - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
    Bluetooth is basically the devil though. My Bose speaker cant handle the fact that I always want my Android phone, and keeps insisting that I really want my child's IPad.
  - TheBozzCL 4y ago
    It's a generalized problem in Apple devices. I use a USB/bluetooth headphone DAC/amp. Most of the time, I plug it into my work laptop and listen to videos/music while I work. Sometimes, if a video ends or if I pause playback, my iPhone (which INSISTS on connecting to the amp) will take over and start playing music. I really wish you could turn off auto-connect to bluetooth devices.
  - kaushikc 4y ago
    I suspect the problem could be the bluetooth technology itself.
- georgelyon 4y ago
  I've long desired form my AirPods to operate in a "play any sound from any of my devices" mode. This seems like a no-brainer and such phantom connections would as a result have no user-visible impact and you could do things like listen to music coming from your phone while hearing sounds from your MacBook.
  - mgkimsal 4y ago
    Unsure if I would love or hate that, but it might be more natural than the iphone/airpods/mac "incoming call" fiasco I face regularly. Airpods/MacOS - listening to background music. Phone call comes in... VERY LOUD facetime 'ring' announces on mac that I'm getting a phone call. Pick up phone to answer it... holy tamole - it's minimum 8 seconds between clicking 'answer' and... eventually airpods switching over to phone - most of the time. To the calling party, I've 'answered', but they can't hear me - or... can sort of hear me, but I can't hear them. The speed at which the 'switch' takes place, and the visual delay (air pod icons turning on, then off, then on again, then a floating top notification saying "airpods connected"...)... this is always minimum 8 seconds. Usually 10-11. I just say "hang on, i'm switching my earpiece over..." and wait. Annoying. Given that this is all in their ecosystem, I expect this to get better, not worse. I'd rather this sort of experience get fixed vs more emojis, or 'sidecar' or whatnot.
    - leipert 4y ago
      Honest question: Why don’t you answer the call from the Mac? Or do you have that continuity feature disabled?
      - AdamGibbins 4y ago
        I disabled that as it has some very confusing and undesired behaviour. For example if you're listening to Spotify on your Mac, then get a call on your iPhone you hit pause on your keyboard media keys so you can pick up the call - and it hangs up.
      - mgkimsal 4y ago
        I usually want to walk away from the computer. I sit at the computer enough already. If a call comes in, I want - sometimes need - to be able to walk away. The long/short of it is, both devices 'know' about the airpods. Call comes in to phone, during an answer, having airpods switch to the phone quickly - like, under 2 seconds - is what I'm expecting. I'm not sure that's an unreasonable expectation (maybe it is?). At some point, I would think, given all the neural-core-AI stuff in the phones and ecosystem, it should know that I always switch airpods to phone to talk... maybe do it automatically at some point? The phone now knows my daily routine, giving me traffic updates 10 minutes before I normally leave to hit the gym. Yet... the 'fill in your email' prompts on the phone suggest 'my' email address is something I have not actively used in 11 years. I don't understand the 'why' behind some of these things. If the device is going to learn... when will it learn I don't use that email address any longer? Obviously separate issue, but... as has gone on for decades - we get loads of new features, but often little attention paid to clean up and refine last year's new features.
- copperx 4y ago
  Mine connects to the goddamn car, overriding my cell phone.
- hamburglar 4y ago
  This comment section is a sheer delight to anyone who’s ever said they prefer wired headphones because of the flakiness of Bluetooth and had a chorus of people respond that they must be doing something wrong because Bluetooth “just works.”
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Seems like a hard choice between two kinds of behavior that will annoy two different sets of people, and are mutually exclusive.
  - shortcake27 4y ago
    There used to be a option to disable bluetooth devices waking a Mac. It was removed a couple years ago. I can kind of understand because this would also prevent a keyboard/mouse waking the Mac, which isn’t ideal. I assume a lot of people were turning this setting off then complaining their Mac won’t wake. However, if a Macbook is sleeping and closed with no peripherals attached, I can’t see any use case for waking from bluetooth. It doesn’t make sense.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      Sleeping but plugged into a monitor, while closed, would be one. For other cases, I suspect it's more about making sure the device(s) can be used almost instantly after waking. Does seem like it'd be nice if the behavior were something you could toggle, though.
- unxdfa 4y ago
  Mine doesn't do that at all (M1 14" MBP). Are you on an M1 macbook or an Intel one out of interest?
- lrem 4y ago
  Microsoft does the same. My Bose QC35s keep going "surface connected", "surface disconnected" every couple minutes.
- lancesells 4y ago
  Keyboard Maestro and Shortcuts.app can turn it on and off on Sleep and Wake.
- tcmart14 4y ago
  This is the exact headache I have.
- _a_a_a_ 4y ago
  This is hilarious. And people wonder why I'm such a Luddite.
  - 867-5309 4y ago
    the best bit is when they want to squash features
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  The number of issues like this that I hear about regularly from people who otherwise love their Apple hardware continually make me glad I’ve been a wired peripheral luddite, even as wired things with decent quality are increasingly hard to even find. I don’t think I’d recommend the preference to anyone who doesn’t already/still share it. But it’s a blissful quiet.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  You can go into the Bluetooth settings panel and tell it not to automatically connect to that device.
- skrause 4y ago
  Such a big thread of people complaining that their bluetooth headphones connect to the wrong device or not at all and how you could use third-party software to (maybe) fix it. And then there's me who still uses headphones with cables. I plug the cable into the device, it plays from this device, never fails. I also never need to charge my headphone. I still don't understand why anyone would voluntarily replace cables with wireless when it's such a worse use experience.
  - tobr 4y ago
    Bluetooth is terrible (unreliable, slow to connect, extreme latency, bad sound quality), but wireless is great. Currently they are one and the same mediocre user experience, so I’m hoping UWB or something else can fix these problems sometime soon?
- gloosx 4y ago
  Most annoying thing is actually how bad bluetooth driver is. On multiple macbooks I had (2011-2022) the bluetooth will just not connect to things, randomly disconnect from them, unresponsive devices when thy are connected (also not responding to disconnect), problems connecting any keyboard but Apple™ Magic Keyboard, and of course, aggressive takeover of every device with a strong competition towards othre macbooks and iphone devices.
- uncletammy 4y ago
  How is this not seen as a massive privacy oversight?
gligorot 4y ago
And you can’t turn bluetooth off without logging in first, a feature which is available for WiFi. Horrendous UX decisions by Apple.
- porbelm 4y ago
  Well if you have the Find My Device functionality enabled, not being able to turn off Bluetooth (and WiFi) is a good thing, since a thief cannot disable location deriving and reporting features by turning them off.
  - gligorot 4y ago
    I don’t think those are connected…or at least it would be silly for that to be the case. Say your laptop was stolen when your BT was off for some random reason - does that mean you won’t be able to find it?
    - threeseed 4y ago
      Bluetooth is a fundamental part of the Find My and broader Location Services stack. Low power devices like AirTag rely entirely on Bluetooth LE and the Find My network to determine their location.
      - gligorot 4y ago
        Yes but does it matter if your BT is turned off _visually_? The device can still send data. Besides, receiving consumes more power than sending, theoretically Apple can just shut off the receiving part and send intermittently (every 2 sec or so) and achieve very minimal power usage. Again, this is just speculation, I’m genuinely interested in the details.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
    Surely the Bluetooth beacon/Find My Device workflow could be separated from the user accessible headphones use.
- 4y ago
zamfi 4y ago
Not just Bluetooth but Wi-Fi too. It’s literally on the network while asleep and unplugged. Not 100% of the time, but very often. Drains the battery fast too.
- tagyro 4y ago
  This is (most probably) the Power Nap feature that periodically checks for email, update calendar events etc. You can disable Power Nap from the Settings > Battery.
  - zamfi 4y ago
    Yep! Apple doesn't seem to provide a way to disable the bluetooth behavior, but there are tools like bluesnooze that can...
lxgr 4y ago
> Can an application still use the microphone on a Bluetooth device that’s connected? I don't see why not, given that it's also possible to use external wired microphones in clamshell mode.
captainkrtek 4y ago
Found this, https://github.com/odlp/bluesnooze/ https://github.com/odlp/bluesnooze/ looks to solve this problem.
- _cenw 4y ago
  If you need something more selective, BetterTouchTool (which you might already have) has a sleep trigger that allows you to disconnect specific devices.
Ensorceled 4y ago
The best part is that closing the lid seems to put it into a "supershitty Bluetooth" state: I can be listening to music/podcast/audiobook from my phone, which is in my pocket, close the laptop and suddenly start getting "Connection <long pause> Lost" every 20-30 seconds until I go back to my laptop and turn off bluetooth.
tagyro 4y ago
That is actually meant to keep the connection to a Bluetooth keyboard/mouse when using the computer in clamshell mode.
- wyager 4y ago
  They don't let me use an HDMI display without external power while closed, so why let me use bluetooth without power?
  - shortcake27 4y ago
    The opposite is also true. You can’t officially use a Macbook in clamshell mode (eg, as a headless media server) even when connected to power. When you close the lid without a connected display, the official MacOS behaviour is to put the computer to sleep. You need a third-party tool to prevent it from sleeping. Yet when my Macbook is asleep in my bag with no peripherals attached, my headphones will connect and wake the Mac. The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. It literally makes no sense.
    - wyager 4y ago
      I think we're agreeing - my point is that it doesn't make sense to allow bluetooth when they won't even allow a display (no power, laptop closed). What are you going to use the bluetooth for, moving a mouse you can't even see?
- porbelm 4y ago
  ...and they could make it so it stays on only of there's an external display connected, but then communication could be disabled by the person who stole your laptop. So Find My would not be able to find and more importantly report a location.
  - tagyro 4y ago
    > ...and they could make it so it stays on only of there's an external display connected Not always, my monitor goes to sleep and turns off. At this point, macOS should turn Bluetooth off? How would I wake the computer then? I would have to open it. > Find My would not be able to find and more importantly report a location. That might be another reason why Bluetooth stays on. On a laptop, I'd rather have Find My working in clamshell mode (given the theft risk).
causi 4y ago
God I love having a laptop with proper S3 standby.
- tracker1 4y ago
  Yeah, even Windows/Linux laptops have started moving away from this... if the startup time isn't too bad, I've gotten in the habit of just completely shutting down when traveling. Nothing worse than a dead battery when you open your laptop because of some background BS trying to run.
  - causi 4y ago
    Laptops will even play tricks on you with full shutdown. I had a Thinkpad that, despite being "shut down" kept popping up on my desktop as "available for streaming" on Steam.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    I go both ways on this being a feature and a bug. On one hand, its kind of nice for my trip from my home office into the main office. Opening up my laptop at the other location its already properly connected to the WiFi, applications are already "warming up" and syncing their statuses to the things that changed, bluetooth keyboard and mouse can actually wake the device from "sleep", etc. It gives a far more seamless experience moving from one place to the other. But I also get the pain of this too. Pulling out my laptop on the airplane and seeing it already at like 93% battery since I left earlier that morning isn't great. I remember back in the late 90s and early 2000's the dream of having some kind of low power notification screen on the lid or edge of the laptop. I always wanted that: being able to quickly see some of the info without fully booting up or accessing music from the computer while on the go. Of course, smartphones became a thing and have mostly eliminated needing the laptop to do those tasks.
elzbardico 4y ago
The problem here is that people that use external keyboards and mice over BT expect to be able to wake their MacBooks connected to external displays even with the lid closed.
- andoma 4y ago
  Nah, Makes no sense. I can manually disconnect the BT audio headset while having keyboard and mouse still working fine over BT.
  - hackmiester 4y ago
    I do not think this is as simple as you believe it is. Would the average user not find this really confusing? You plug your laptop into your dock and close it, and suddenly your AirPods stop working, even though the rest of the computer works fine?
    - andoma 4y ago
      I'm totally fine with it keeping BT audio active when it's connected to anything else (even the charger I guess). The annoying thing, for me at least, is when it decides it absolutely has to take over my Bose Headphones while closed in my backpack, not playing any audio, and I'm out traveling with it and my iPhone.
deleted 4y ago
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vosper 4y ago
There’s a thing called Kill Bluetooth on Sleep (KBOS) that works perfectly for me (2015 MacBook Pro) https://github.com/alb12-la/KBOS https://github.com/alb12-la/KBOS
asveikau 4y ago
I think you should be able to play music while the lid is closed. That seems like a reasonable use case. Set computer up on a table, pair Bluetooth speaker, put on your favorite streaming service, close the lid and walk away, the music filling the room. Totally reasonable.
- exitb 4y ago
  That’s a different topic really. There are tools that can prevent going to sleep when the lid is closed with no peripherals attached. When not used, most users would expect for the laptop to go to sleep, even if it’s playing something at the time. What this is about is engaging Bluetooth devices while asleep, which doesn’t make any practical sense.
  - asveikau 4y ago
    > When not used, most users would expect for the laptop to go to sleep I think part of the problem here is that defining "in use" is actually very difficult, and it's literally something where two different users (or even the same user at different times) could have different expectations for the same circumstance as defined in code.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
babypuncher 4y ago
Wouldn't this be because BT perhipherals like mice and keyboards need to be able to wake the machine up? Also FindMy relies on BT to work. An option to disable BT when the lid is closed might be nice, but it shouldn't be the default. I think most people do not want that.
- lovehashbrowns 4y ago
  I can understand that if I’m just closing the lid but my MacBook shouldn’t be connecting to BT devices when it’s in sleep mode. My Windows laptop won’t do that when it’s in sleep mode. This feels counterintuitive to me. There should at least be a setting where I can disable that without having to install a third-party app, y’know? ‘Cause I can understand for the need to keep a device connected if I’m just closing the lid, but the laptop isn’t going into sleep mode. It’s also really funny how fast all my Apple devices “steal” a BT connection. Both my mb air and my tablet beat all my windows machines at taking over a BT device no matter what I try. I should try to race my tablet and the Air to see which one wins.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    The default behavior for most laptops go to sleep after a period of inactivity even when docked and in clamshell mode. I think users with wireless peripherals would find it irritating if every time they sat down at their desk they had to open the lid to wake their laptop.
alexpetralia 4y ago
And the MacBook is so "greedy" that it will always connect to my Bluetooth devices before anything else can, forcing me to take out the MacBook, open the lid, sign in and disable Bluetooth.
prepend 4y ago
I like how sleep works on my MacBook in that I can close my screen and open it back up to work in less than a second. On windows this doesn’t work. Half the time my dell or Lenovo freeze up and the other half it hangs for seconds. However, I notice that it sleep mode it will have tons of network traffic and I wish there was a setting to make it really turn off when the lid is closed and not do anything.
eligro91 4y ago
Happens to me as well. when I'm turning on my wireless headphones and trying to match with my phone, the closed macbook is connecting to it first. this is annoying and requires me either to: 1. pair from scratch 2. go to the macbook, open it, turn off bluetooth. annoying
- a9h74j 4y ago
  Sadly or happily for me: one device, one specific pair of bluetooth headphones. I've started getting the $15 ones.
x3n0ph3n3 4y ago
Check out Sleepwatcher [1]. I have ~/.sleep and ~/.wakeup defined to disable and enable bluetooth. ~/.sleep: /opt/homebrew/bin/blueutil -p 0 ~/.wakeup /opt/homebrew/bin/blueutil -p 1 1. https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/sleepwatcher https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/sleepwatcher
snarf21 4y ago
Agreed, why can't the user override the rules for mice/keyboard vs microphone/speaker or overall? I never use my MacBook in clamshell mode. I would prefer that closing it cancels ALL Bluetooth connections and prevents reconnect as well.
mrexroad 4y ago
It also allows thieves to figure out which cars have a laptop in the trunk.
rrauenza 4y ago
Isn't this also how thieves know there is a MacBook in a car? They scan for telltale signals? https://www.wired.com/story/bluetooth-scanner-car-thefts/ https://www.wired.com/story/bluetooth-scanner-car-thefts/
- NavinF 4y ago
  I despise articles like this that have zero technical information. Wasted 5 minutes confirming that I can see my macbook's BLE advertisements using the TI sensortag app on iOS, but it disappears as soon as I close the lid. Another nothingburger.
kokekolo 4y ago
bluesnooze.app is made to address that.

altairprime 4y ago

Yes, I videoconference regularly from a closed-lid MacBook with a Bluetooth headset.

dvirsky 4y ago

This has to be the most annoying thing in MacOS. My laptop, soundly sleeping in my backpack, takes over my bluetooth headphones all the time.

supermdguy 4y ago
I hate that this isn't configurable by default, but bluesnooze solved this for me: https://github.com/odlp/bluesnooze https://github.com/odlp/bluesnooze
- jbj 4y ago
  this comments reminds me about owning a mac and installing a github repo to allow mouse scrolling direction to not be tied to touch pad scrolling [edit] just following up, it was UnnaturalScrollWheels, which have been notarized: https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels/releases/tag/1.2.3 https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels/releases/tag...
  - addandsubtract 4y ago
    The zoom scroll is disconnected from the scroll direction as well. I'm not sure if they fixed it by now or if I just got used to it, but it was super disorienting when I noticed it.
  - jdlyga 4y ago
    We typically use LinearMouse for this. Allows you to even set scrolling direction, scroll speed, acceleration profile, etc per mouse. But yeah, MacOS is a little like Gnome Shell. It requires a few basic apps to make it usable, but after that it's pretty excellent.
    - radlad 4y ago
      Thanks for mentioning LinearMouse. I've previously used Scroll Reverser so it's nice to hear of other options in this space.[0] [0] https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/ https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/
      - graynk 4y ago
        MOS [0] is also pretty good, if you like smooth scroll. [0] https://mos.caldis.me/ https://mos.caldis.me/
    - gligorot 4y ago
      Do you have a list of helpful apps?
  - jraph 4y ago
    Hello 2005 GNU/Linux! Installing random packages to fix OS stuff that should work out of the box was fun for a while :-)
    - naikrovek 4y ago
      here's the thing, though: "working as intended" and "working as you intend" are very different things. no operating system ever has arrived on a user's computer completely configurable to any given user's preferences. you're complaining about something that simply isn't possible without third party software and time spent by the user in question.
      - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        > "working as intended" and "working as you intend" are very different things. You're holding it wrong
  - 0cVlTeIATBs 4y ago
    I was surprised by needing to do this when switch to MacOS. So many things don't "just work" despite all that I've heard about it.
    - JohnBooty 4y ago
      Overwhelmingly, it does "just work" as Apple intended. However, it's often quite opinionated. So Apple's intended functionality may or may not jive with your preferences. This is neither a defense nor criticism of Apple, and it's not a defense or criticism of your preferences either. I will point out that anecdotally, I don't hear too many people wanting their mouse's scrolling to work in the opposite direction as their trackpad. I think Apple's probably got well over 99% of the userbase covered with the defaults and opinions here. From a software/QA/UX perspective things get wild pretty quickly if you cover every < 1% use case.
      - goosedragons 4y ago
        That setting is particularly terrible because they mirror it in both "mouse" and "trackpad" settings or at least that's how they used to do it. So it SEEMS like you can have independent settings for a mouse and trackpad but they control the same thing (which is equally weird, does any other setting do that?).
      - karaterobot 4y ago
        FWIW, I think the phrase "just works" implies that you, the user, should expect it to work without any tweaks or workarounds. So, the user's preferences are implied. Saying that it just works in many cases, or that it just works for Apple is not what is implied by that marketing. It's a strong promise that was chosen for a reason, and in many cases they do not live up to it.
        taneq 4y ago
        Do they still use that line? While some of their newer stuff does meet that standard, a lot more “just works if you already know what it does“ (eg. AirPods need to be in the case to pair… why?) and still more seems kinda random (fk you iOS keyboard.)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- chenghuzi 4y ago
  you can just use hammerspoon to get the same effect, turning off the bluetooth/wifi right after entering sleep mode and turning them back on when the Mac is unlocked.
tbarbugli 4y ago
I had the same, switching to Airpods “fixed” this problem. I doubt Apple will ever do something about this, bt audio works fine as long as you use iPhone, Macbook and Apple pods
- cortesoft 4y ago
  I have AirPods, but the experience still sucks with multiple devices. I have my phone, my laptop, my iPad, and two iPads for my kids, all on my account. I literally am unable to make my kid’s iPads forget my AirPods, because it is tied to the apple account. If I have the iPads forget them, it forgets them on all my devices. It is annoying as hell, I have to leave Bluetooth off on my kids iPads.
  - zamnos 4y ago
    Umm, your children's accounts are on children accounts and not literally your account though, right? Because that could cause problems down the line. https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/set-up-a-childs-device-iphfd0b65920/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/set-up-a-childs-devic...
    - hamburglar 4y ago
      “Ummm” aside, this is not at all obvious. I have an iPad from before I had kids. When setting it up, I was asked to enter my Apple ID, so I did. Then came kids and a new use for this iPad, and a second iPad, which obviously needed the same apps, and a third. No, it never occurred to me to set up appleids specifically for toddlers. It did eventually prompt me to set up a new “iPads” appleid when I switched from android to iPhone and suddenly discovered that all my text messages were being delivered to my children. But the ipads are family devices, not per-child, and if apple thinks I’m going to give each kid an appleid, they aren’t paying attention to how people actually want to use their devices.
      - zamnos 4y ago
        "Umm aside" not-aside, I'm sorry for triggering you. it's too late for me to edit my comment and take that out but I would if I could. So this may not be obvious to you, but what's obvious to someone isn't necessarily obvious to other people, and vice versa. In any case, I can see why creating a separate account if you only have toddlers seems too onerous. Don't worry though, they'll become teenagers who want (and deserve) the autonomy and agency of having their own account before you know it, even if sharing your photos to their idevice wasn't enough to motivate you. Separate accounts seems the most reasonably way do implement a shared but-not-system to preserve privacy, a favorite reason Apple cites as their reason for doing things. I'm not sure how else Apple could do a shared system for teens. I think there's a hack involving getting a cheap phone number for each toddler, adding that to iCloud, then disabling message delivery to that number but I haven't tested it.
cj 4y ago
Similarly, whenever I'm working at my kitchen table I always "lose" my mouse as if there's another monitor connected. I realized a couple weeks later MacOS display continuity (or "sidecar"?) was connecting to my Mac Mini located directly upstairs using it as a 2nd monitor while I'm downstairs. My apple watch also regularly unlocks my Mac Mini when I'm downstairs (Mac Mini in a bedroom upstairs). All of these features pose serious security issues if your physical location isn't secure/trusted. There really should be a "Travel Mode" for MacOS that disables features like these. No one wants airport security to open a laptop and have the apple watch immediately unlock it for them while standing 20 feet away (or in another room).
- jackson1442 4y ago
  Definitely should be an os-level feature to disable all that, similar to using panic mode on ios to disable biometrics. I personally boot my laptops to the filevault screen and no further when going through the security checkpoints. Keeps the disk encrypted and requires my password to continue.
  - highwaylights 4y ago
    “Would you like to enter the password before or after I check in the back to see if we have any latex gloves left, sir?”
    - mikepurvis 4y ago
      Doesn't look like Filevault has a duress option— otherwise it'd be pretty nice to have a separate password that boots you to a dummy partition showing a fresh desktop install with apparently nothing on it. For bonus points, you could have the dummy OS kernel-patched so that it doesn't even show the other partitions as existing, and just pretends it's occupying the whole disk with mostly empty space. "That computer? Oh yeah, I just picked it up, officer; was going to start configuring it when when I arrive at my destination."
      - Someone 4y ago
dom96 4y ago
I have gotten used to switching off Bluetooth on my mac before closing the lid because of this. Infuriating.
gnicholas 4y ago
I don't understand why the bluetooth-stealing happens so often. I'll literally be in the middle of a podcast on my phone, and my iPad in the next room (on which my kids have been watching something) will take over my headphones. There's no change in state on either device (not stopping/starting), and I haven't moved close to the iPad (and the iPhone is much closer, in my pocket). I just have to turn off bluetooth entirely on the iPad to avoid this.
- disgruntledphd2 4y ago
  Bluetooth is basically the devil though. My Bose speaker cant handle the fact that I always want my Android phone, and keeps insisting that I really want my child's IPad.
- TheBozzCL 4y ago
  It's a generalized problem in Apple devices. I use a USB/bluetooth headphone DAC/amp. Most of the time, I plug it into my work laptop and listen to videos/music while I work. Sometimes, if a video ends or if I pause playback, my iPhone (which INSISTS on connecting to the amp) will take over and start playing music. I really wish you could turn off auto-connect to bluetooth devices.
- kaushikc 4y ago
  I suspect the problem could be the bluetooth technology itself.
georgelyon 4y ago
I've long desired form my AirPods to operate in a "play any sound from any of my devices" mode. This seems like a no-brainer and such phantom connections would as a result have no user-visible impact and you could do things like listen to music coming from your phone while hearing sounds from your MacBook.
- mgkimsal 4y ago
  Unsure if I would love or hate that, but it might be more natural than the iphone/airpods/mac "incoming call" fiasco I face regularly. Airpods/MacOS - listening to background music. Phone call comes in... VERY LOUD facetime 'ring' announces on mac that I'm getting a phone call. Pick up phone to answer it... holy tamole - it's minimum 8 seconds between clicking 'answer' and... eventually airpods switching over to phone - most of the time. To the calling party, I've 'answered', but they can't hear me - or... can sort of hear me, but I can't hear them. The speed at which the 'switch' takes place, and the visual delay (air pod icons turning on, then off, then on again, then a floating top notification saying "airpods connected"...)... this is always minimum 8 seconds. Usually 10-11. I just say "hang on, i'm switching my earpiece over..." and wait. Annoying. Given that this is all in their ecosystem, I expect this to get better, not worse. I'd rather this sort of experience get fixed vs more emojis, or 'sidecar' or whatnot.
  - leipert 4y ago
    Honest question: Why don’t you answer the call from the Mac? Or do you have that continuity feature disabled?
    - AdamGibbins 4y ago
      I disabled that as it has some very confusing and undesired behaviour. For example if you're listening to Spotify on your Mac, then get a call on your iPhone you hit pause on your keyboard media keys so you can pick up the call - and it hangs up.
    - mgkimsal 4y ago
      I usually want to walk away from the computer. I sit at the computer enough already. If a call comes in, I want - sometimes need - to be able to walk away. The long/short of it is, both devices 'know' about the airpods. Call comes in to phone, during an answer, having airpods switch to the phone quickly - like, under 2 seconds - is what I'm expecting. I'm not sure that's an unreasonable expectation (maybe it is?). At some point, I would think, given all the neural-core-AI stuff in the phones and ecosystem, it should know that I always switch airpods to phone to talk... maybe do it automatically at some point? The phone now knows my daily routine, giving me traffic updates 10 minutes before I normally leave to hit the gym. Yet... the 'fill in your email' prompts on the phone suggest 'my' email address is something I have not actively used in 11 years. I don't understand the 'why' behind some of these things. If the device is going to learn... when will it learn I don't use that email address any longer? Obviously separate issue, but... as has gone on for decades - we get loads of new features, but often little attention paid to clean up and refine last year's new features.
copperx 4y ago
Mine connects to the goddamn car, overriding my cell phone.
hamburglar 4y ago
This comment section is a sheer delight to anyone who’s ever said they prefer wired headphones because of the flakiness of Bluetooth and had a chorus of people respond that they must be doing something wrong because Bluetooth “just works.”
yamtaddle 4y ago
Seems like a hard choice between two kinds of behavior that will annoy two different sets of people, and are mutually exclusive.
- shortcake27 4y ago
  There used to be a option to disable bluetooth devices waking a Mac. It was removed a couple years ago. I can kind of understand because this would also prevent a keyboard/mouse waking the Mac, which isn’t ideal. I assume a lot of people were turning this setting off then complaining their Mac won’t wake. However, if a Macbook is sleeping and closed with no peripherals attached, I can’t see any use case for waking from bluetooth. It doesn’t make sense.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Sleeping but plugged into a monitor, while closed, would be one. For other cases, I suspect it's more about making sure the device(s) can be used almost instantly after waking. Does seem like it'd be nice if the behavior were something you could toggle, though.
unxdfa 4y ago
Mine doesn't do that at all (M1 14" MBP). Are you on an M1 macbook or an Intel one out of interest?
lrem 4y ago
Microsoft does the same. My Bose QC35s keep going "surface connected", "surface disconnected" every couple minutes.
lancesells 4y ago
Keyboard Maestro and Shortcuts.app can turn it on and off on Sleep and Wake.
tcmart14 4y ago
This is the exact headache I have.
_a_a_a_ 4y ago
This is hilarious. And people wonder why I'm such a Luddite.
- 867-5309 4y ago
  the best bit is when they want to squash features
eyelidlessness 4y ago
The number of issues like this that I hear about regularly from people who otherwise love their Apple hardware continually make me glad I’ve been a wired peripheral luddite, even as wired things with decent quality are increasingly hard to even find. I don’t think I’d recommend the preference to anyone who doesn’t already/still share it. But it’s a blissful quiet.
Tagbert 4y ago
You can go into the Bluetooth settings panel and tell it not to automatically connect to that device.
skrause 4y ago
Such a big thread of people complaining that their bluetooth headphones connect to the wrong device or not at all and how you could use third-party software to (maybe) fix it. And then there's me who still uses headphones with cables. I plug the cable into the device, it plays from this device, never fails. I also never need to charge my headphone. I still don't understand why anyone would voluntarily replace cables with wireless when it's such a worse use experience.
- tobr 4y ago
  Bluetooth is terrible (unreliable, slow to connect, extreme latency, bad sound quality), but wireless is great. Currently they are one and the same mediocre user experience, so I’m hoping UWB or something else can fix these problems sometime soon?
gloosx 4y ago
Most annoying thing is actually how bad bluetooth driver is. On multiple macbooks I had (2011-2022) the bluetooth will just not connect to things, randomly disconnect from them, unresponsive devices when thy are connected (also not responding to disconnect), problems connecting any keyboard but Apple™ Magic Keyboard, and of course, aggressive takeover of every device with a strong competition towards othre macbooks and iphone devices.
uncletammy 4y ago
How is this not seen as a massive privacy oversight?

gligorot 4y ago

And you can’t turn bluetooth off without logging in first, a feature which is available for WiFi. Horrendous UX decisions by Apple.

porbelm 4y ago
Well if you have the Find My Device functionality enabled, not being able to turn off Bluetooth (and WiFi) is a good thing, since a thief cannot disable location deriving and reporting features by turning them off.
- gligorot 4y ago
  I don’t think those are connected…or at least it would be silly for that to be the case. Say your laptop was stolen when your BT was off for some random reason - does that mean you won’t be able to find it?
  - threeseed 4y ago
    Bluetooth is a fundamental part of the Find My and broader Location Services stack. Low power devices like AirTag rely entirely on Bluetooth LE and the Find My network to determine their location.
    - gligorot 4y ago
      Yes but does it matter if your BT is turned off _visually_? The device can still send data. Besides, receiving consumes more power than sending, theoretically Apple can just shut off the receiving part and send intermittently (every 2 sec or so) and achieve very minimal power usage. Again, this is just speculation, I’m genuinely interested in the details.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
  Surely the Bluetooth beacon/Find My Device workflow could be separated from the user accessible headphones use.
4y ago

zamfi 4y ago

Not just Bluetooth but Wi-Fi too. It’s literally on the network while asleep and unplugged. Not 100% of the time, but very often. Drains the battery fast too.

tagyro 4y ago
This is (most probably) the Power Nap feature that periodically checks for email, update calendar events etc. You can disable Power Nap from the Settings > Battery.
- zamfi 4y ago
  Yep! Apple doesn't seem to provide a way to disable the bluetooth behavior, but there are tools like bluesnooze that can...

lxgr 4y ago

> Can an application still use the microphone on a Bluetooth device that’s connected? I don't see why not, given that it's also possible to use external wired microphones in clamshell mode.

captainkrtek 4y ago

Found this, https://github.com/odlp/bluesnooze/ https://github.com/odlp/bluesnooze/ looks to solve this problem.

_cenw 4y ago
If you need something more selective, BetterTouchTool (which you might already have) has a sleep trigger that allows you to disconnect specific devices.

Ensorceled 4y ago

The best part is that closing the lid seems to put it into a "supershitty Bluetooth" state: I can be listening to music/podcast/audiobook from my phone, which is in my pocket, close the laptop and suddenly start getting "Connection <long pause> Lost" every 20-30 seconds until I go back to my laptop and turn off bluetooth.

tagyro 4y ago

That is actually meant to keep the connection to a Bluetooth keyboard/mouse when using the computer in clamshell mode.

wyager 4y ago
They don't let me use an HDMI display without external power while closed, so why let me use bluetooth without power?
- shortcake27 4y ago
  The opposite is also true. You can’t officially use a Macbook in clamshell mode (eg, as a headless media server) even when connected to power. When you close the lid without a connected display, the official MacOS behaviour is to put the computer to sleep. You need a third-party tool to prevent it from sleeping. Yet when my Macbook is asleep in my bag with no peripherals attached, my headphones will connect and wake the Mac. The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. It literally makes no sense.
  - wyager 4y ago
    I think we're agreeing - my point is that it doesn't make sense to allow bluetooth when they won't even allow a display (no power, laptop closed). What are you going to use the bluetooth for, moving a mouse you can't even see?
porbelm 4y ago
...and they could make it so it stays on only of there's an external display connected, but then communication could be disabled by the person who stole your laptop. So Find My would not be able to find and more importantly report a location.
- tagyro 4y ago
  > ...and they could make it so it stays on only of there's an external display connected Not always, my monitor goes to sleep and turns off. At this point, macOS should turn Bluetooth off? How would I wake the computer then? I would have to open it. > Find My would not be able to find and more importantly report a location. That might be another reason why Bluetooth stays on. On a laptop, I'd rather have Find My working in clamshell mode (given the theft risk).

causi 4y ago

God I love having a laptop with proper S3 standby.

tracker1 4y ago
Yeah, even Windows/Linux laptops have started moving away from this... if the startup time isn't too bad, I've gotten in the habit of just completely shutting down when traveling. Nothing worse than a dead battery when you open your laptop because of some background BS trying to run.
- causi 4y ago
  Laptops will even play tricks on you with full shutdown. I had a Thinkpad that, despite being "shut down" kept popping up on my desktop as "available for streaming" on Steam.
- vel0city 4y ago
  I go both ways on this being a feature and a bug. On one hand, its kind of nice for my trip from my home office into the main office. Opening up my laptop at the other location its already properly connected to the WiFi, applications are already "warming up" and syncing their statuses to the things that changed, bluetooth keyboard and mouse can actually wake the device from "sleep", etc. It gives a far more seamless experience moving from one place to the other. But I also get the pain of this too. Pulling out my laptop on the airplane and seeing it already at like 93% battery since I left earlier that morning isn't great. I remember back in the late 90s and early 2000's the dream of having some kind of low power notification screen on the lid or edge of the laptop. I always wanted that: being able to quickly see some of the info without fully booting up or accessing music from the computer while on the go. Of course, smartphones became a thing and have mostly eliminated needing the laptop to do those tasks.

elzbardico 4y ago

The problem here is that people that use external keyboards and mice over BT expect to be able to wake their MacBooks connected to external displays even with the lid closed.

andoma 4y ago
Nah, Makes no sense. I can manually disconnect the BT audio headset while having keyboard and mouse still working fine over BT.
- hackmiester 4y ago
  I do not think this is as simple as you believe it is. Would the average user not find this really confusing? You plug your laptop into your dock and close it, and suddenly your AirPods stop working, even though the rest of the computer works fine?
  - andoma 4y ago
    I'm totally fine with it keeping BT audio active when it's connected to anything else (even the charger I guess). The annoying thing, for me at least, is when it decides it absolutely has to take over my Bose Headphones while closed in my backpack, not playing any audio, and I'm out traveling with it and my iPhone.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

vosper 4y ago

There’s a thing called Kill Bluetooth on Sleep (KBOS) that works perfectly for me (2015 MacBook Pro) https://github.com/alb12-la/KBOS https://github.com/alb12-la/KBOS

asveikau 4y ago

I think you should be able to play music while the lid is closed. That seems like a reasonable use case. Set computer up on a table, pair Bluetooth speaker, put on your favorite streaming service, close the lid and walk away, the music filling the room. Totally reasonable.

exitb 4y ago
That’s a different topic really. There are tools that can prevent going to sleep when the lid is closed with no peripherals attached. When not used, most users would expect for the laptop to go to sleep, even if it’s playing something at the time. What this is about is engaging Bluetooth devices while asleep, which doesn’t make any practical sense.
- asveikau 4y ago
  > When not used, most users would expect for the laptop to go to sleep I think part of the problem here is that defining "in use" is actually very difficult, and it's literally something where two different users (or even the same user at different times) could have different expectations for the same circumstance as defined in code.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

babypuncher 4y ago

Wouldn't this be because BT perhipherals like mice and keyboards need to be able to wake the machine up? Also FindMy relies on BT to work. An option to disable BT when the lid is closed might be nice, but it shouldn't be the default. I think most people do not want that.

lovehashbrowns 4y ago
I can understand that if I’m just closing the lid but my MacBook shouldn’t be connecting to BT devices when it’s in sleep mode. My Windows laptop won’t do that when it’s in sleep mode. This feels counterintuitive to me. There should at least be a setting where I can disable that without having to install a third-party app, y’know? ‘Cause I can understand for the need to keep a device connected if I’m just closing the lid, but the laptop isn’t going into sleep mode. It’s also really funny how fast all my Apple devices “steal” a BT connection. Both my mb air and my tablet beat all my windows machines at taking over a BT device no matter what I try. I should try to race my tablet and the Air to see which one wins.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  The default behavior for most laptops go to sleep after a period of inactivity even when docked and in clamshell mode. I think users with wireless peripherals would find it irritating if every time they sat down at their desk they had to open the lid to wake their laptop.

alexpetralia 4y ago

And the MacBook is so "greedy" that it will always connect to my Bluetooth devices before anything else can, forcing me to take out the MacBook, open the lid, sign in and disable Bluetooth.

prepend 4y ago

I like how sleep works on my MacBook in that I can close my screen and open it back up to work in less than a second. On windows this doesn’t work. Half the time my dell or Lenovo freeze up and the other half it hangs for seconds. However, I notice that it sleep mode it will have tons of network traffic and I wish there was a setting to make it really turn off when the lid is closed and not do anything.

eligro91 4y ago

Happens to me as well. when I'm turning on my wireless headphones and trying to match with my phone, the closed macbook is connecting to it first. this is annoying and requires me either to: 1. pair from scratch 2. go to the macbook, open it, turn off bluetooth. annoying

a9h74j 4y ago
Sadly or happily for me: one device, one specific pair of bluetooth headphones. I've started getting the $15 ones.

x3n0ph3n3 4y ago

Check out Sleepwatcher [1]. I have ~/.sleep and ~/.wakeup defined to disable and enable bluetooth. ~/.sleep: /opt/homebrew/bin/blueutil -p 0 ~/.wakeup /opt/homebrew/bin/blueutil -p 1 1. https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/sleepwatcher https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/sleepwatcher

snarf21 4y ago

Agreed, why can't the user override the rules for mice/keyboard vs microphone/speaker or overall? I never use my MacBook in clamshell mode. I would prefer that closing it cancels ALL Bluetooth connections and prevents reconnect as well.

mrexroad 4y ago

It also allows thieves to figure out which cars have a laptop in the trunk.

rrauenza 4y ago

Isn't this also how thieves know there is a MacBook in a car? They scan for telltale signals? https://www.wired.com/story/bluetooth-scanner-car-thefts/ https://www.wired.com/story/bluetooth-scanner-car-thefts/

NavinF 4y ago
I despise articles like this that have zero technical information. Wasted 5 minutes confirming that I can see my macbook's BLE advertisements using the TI sensortag app on iOS, but it disappears as soon as I close the lid. Another nothingburger.

kokekolo 4y ago

bluesnooze.app is made to address that.