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I had to go to one to return a package. I couldn't get past the turnstiles because I don't use the app and don't know my password because I use a password manag

I had to go to one to return a package. I couldn't get past the turnstiles because I don't use the app and don't know my password because I use a password manager. This meant I couldn't hand my parcel in at the counter. The woman on the turnstile wouldn't let me in even when I explained the situation. So she went off and got a scanner to take my package. She didn't offer a receipt, and when I asked for one said it wasn't possible to give me one. I checked my email, and nothing there either. So I had no evidence I'd actually returned my item and she just said something like "It's in the system and never makes a mistake" or some similar rubbish. While I was in there I saw several people walk just inside, faff around on their phones for 5 minutes then either give up or eventually get past the turnstiles. There's literally no benefit for customers unless you're shopping at busy times. So all in all an unmitigated disaster.

thoughtpalette 4y ago
YMMV. Was a big fan of the one in Chicago (I'm now remote). Never had any issues. Great selection of food/snacks/drinks. App always worked flawlessly.
baumy 4y ago
Seems like a very weird way of blaming a well defined system for your unwillingness to meet its prerequisites. It would take approximately a few minutes to discover that you need the app to get into the store and get that sorted. You are capable of this, just apparently too lazy or unwilling for some unclear reason. The return experience seems entirely orthogonal to the rest of the story here, and I'm not sure why you included it. For those of us who managed to download the app and login to it, walking into the store, grabbing something off a shelf and walking out was extremely convenient in a way unmatched by any other store. Calling it an unmitigated disaster in your situation is like calling a movie a failure because you couldn't be bothered to go to a theater and see it. Just bizarre.
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't cross into personal attack. It's against the HN rules and you can make your substantive points without it. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- polygamous_bat 4y ago
  > Seems like a very weird way of blaming a well defined system for your unwillingness to meet its prerequisites. It would take approximately a few minutes to discover that you need the app to get into the store and get that sorted. You are capable of this, just apparently too lazy or unwilling for some unclear reason. Reread what you wrote, but this time try to think of a UI/UX issue that this comment _does not_ cover. Indeed, if we can start blaming the user for every UX trouble, this world would be a very different place, and not a place I would rather live in.
- throw10920 4y ago
  > Seems like a very weird way of blaming a well defined system for your unwillingness to meet its prerequisites. > just apparently too lazy or unwilling for some unclear reason. > Just bizarre. This is a very emotionally manipulative and accusatory comment that certainly does not meet HN's guidelines, and doesn't actually address any of the problems that the GP stated.
  - baumy 4y ago
    No, I don't agree. I directly address the problems by arguing that they aren't actually problems. I feel I plainly stated the reality of the situation as it was described, and was not manipulative and accusatory in any way. I do not appreciate your characterization however. I will likely not respond further as this will quickly become non constructive.
    - flangola7 4y ago
      > No, I don't agree. I directly address the problems by arguing that they aren't actually problems. I feel I plainly stated the reality of the situation as it was described, and was not manipulative and accusatory in any way. I do not appreciate your characterization however. You can't argue that something isn't a problem when it is self-evident. Trying to do so is manipulative, regardless of whether or not you appreciate that fact. This sounds like something I would expect to hear from an MBA, not an engineer.
    - throw10920 4y ago
      > I will likely not respond further as this will quickly become non constructive. It was non-constructive from the moment you made your comment with highly manipulative phrases like "Seems like a very weird way of blaming a well defined system for your unwillingness to meet its prerequisites", "You are capable of this, just apparently too lazy or unwilling for some unclear reason", "For those of us who managed to", and "Just bizarre." Your comment does not meet the HN guidelines, was not constructive, and was downvoted and flagged accordingly.
Nanana909 4y ago
> I don't use the app So then why attempt to go to a store that’s entirely based on using the app? The store concept is based around your account - and you didn’t know your account details. The app can help avoid this, but you also refused to use the app. How is this any different than someone who refuses to use their password to sign in to Amazon.com and complains about not being able to submit a return? Or going to a store and not having your credit card but being annoyed that you can’t use your credit card?
- nfinished 4y ago
  [flagged]
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  He was trying to return a package, not shop at the store. You can return Amazon packages at WholeFoods, Kohl’s and the UPS Store using the Amazon website on your phone — app not needed. I do it all the time because I refuse to use their app.
  - Nanana909 4y ago
    > He was trying to return a package, not shop at the store. So then it sounds like he’s not in very a strong position to declare the stores as an unmitigated failure…
    - adrianmonk 4y ago
      After re-reading, I think their point may have been to describe that one experience as a total failure, not the cashierless store concept in general. But it definitely can be read either way, so that's confusing.
  - ilikehurdles 4y ago
    And yet the app _is_ needed at these stores. Perhaps he was confused and thought he was at a Kohl’s, a store that doesn’t need the app.
di456 4y ago
Is the app required for a return or can you use your credit card to enter? I've always just used my credit card to enter but have never done a return at one.
amelius 4y ago
The endgame in capitalism is something that is remarkably close to a bureaucratic all-controlling government.
- annexrichmond 4y ago
  Only if monopolies are allowed to flourish, because, that's what the government basically is - a monopoly on all services for which there's no private counterparts.
  - permo-w 4y ago
    does that not seem at all contrived to you? government is an organisation of humans within a geographical region that work for the benefit of all the other humans within that region. it's as simple as that. it's the exception not the rule for there to be no private competition; unless you live in Cuba, in which case you're describing communism, not government
    - pharrington 4y ago
      Just to clarify, communism is a specific type of government. (but yeah i assume you're saying its not government in general)
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    Like capitalists don't aspire to be monopolists. You'll do so too if you become successful.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    Monopolies are a fact of Capitalism. One of the roles of government is to provide a counter balance to that.
    - marsven_422 4y ago
      [dead]
  - 4y ago
jdlyga 4y ago
It's just the normal Amazon app, not anything special. And not to judge, but I think a password manager is really beneficial. You can even self-host it if you're concerned about security.
TAKEMYMONEY 4y ago
Did you have the QR code they email you for dropoff returns? No app needed (besides email).
jonny_eh 4y ago
So did you get your refund? If so, sounds like it wasn’t a disaster.
- permo-w 4y ago
  if they didn't, they'd undoubtedly have mentioned it I have no love for amazon, but besides the lack of receipt, this seems like an issue they created for themselves
- nprateem 4y ago
  Well since the return process took the best part of 15 minutes for this state-of-the-art store, and I would have had no recourse if the refund didn't go through (since I had no proof I'd returned it), I won't be rushing back in a hurry. So in that respect it was a failure.
  - gizmo385 4y ago
    15 minutes to return something honestly seems… fine? Like I’ve gone to brick and mortar stores to return things and had it take upwards of an hour for the overworked customer service folks to make it through the line of folks
    - nprateem 4y ago
      If I'd known it was going to take like 10 times longer than usual I'd have gone somewhere else or not gone on my lunch break.
cronix 4y ago
I always return/drop off at UPS. In and out in 5 minutes generally. But I guess UPS has been in the business of the extremely complicated "scan preprinted return label with hand held laser" game longer than Amazon.
anigbrowl 4y ago
Or, just log in to your account in the browser and the return page has a QR code for the store employe to scan. I did a return a few weeks ago and I was in and out in 30 seconds, even though I don't use the app.
- nprateem 4y ago
  I had my QR code. That's why the employee had to go for the scanner. I couldn't get to the returns counter.
CamperBob2 4y ago
The turnstiles are unfortunate. They send the wrong psychological messages -- complexity, exclusion, a barrier to entry. I can't imagine that they stop any actual thieves, considering how brazen shoplifters are these days. And they really aren't necessary. The Amazon app has location services permission; it knows when I'm in the store. That's apparently enough to track me along with my purchases, and to flag anyone who tries to enter the store without the app. So what's the point of the turnstiles, exactly?
- throwaway426079 4y ago
  I've been in the Aldi version of this. By scanning an app qr code at the barrier I am associating my appearance with that account at that time. I can also bring someone into the store with me on my account (by the slightly clunky process of passing my phone back over the barrier to them).
- wiseleo 4y ago
  To keep people who don’t have a means to pay at that store by having the app installed and configured with their account away from the sales floor. It’s one thing to stop a shoplifter at a normal store. Turnstiles reinforce the notion that this facility actively enforces access control. This is similar to Passport Control line at the airport. If I have Mobile passport (MPC) app installed, I use a dedicated and usually empty lane. The same is true if I have my Global Entry card. It takes a couple of minutes to setup MPC while walking, but most people choose to wait in the main line.

thoughtpalette 4y ago

YMMV. Was a big fan of the one in Chicago (I'm now remote). Never had any issues. Great selection of food/snacks/drinks. App always worked flawlessly.

baumy 4y ago

Seems like a very weird way of blaming a well defined system for your unwillingness to meet its prerequisites. It would take approximately a few minutes to discover that you need the app to get into the store and get that sorted. You are capable of this, just apparently too lazy or unwilling for some unclear reason. The return experience seems entirely orthogonal to the rest of the story here, and I'm not sure why you included it. For those of us who managed to download the app and login to it, walking into the store, grabbing something off a shelf and walking out was extremely convenient in a way unmatched by any other store. Calling it an unmitigated disaster in your situation is like calling a movie a failure because you couldn't be bothered to go to a theater and see it. Just bizarre.

dang 4y ago
Please don't cross into personal attack. It's against the HN rules and you can make your substantive points without it. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
polygamous_bat 4y ago
> Seems like a very weird way of blaming a well defined system for your unwillingness to meet its prerequisites. It would take approximately a few minutes to discover that you need the app to get into the store and get that sorted. You are capable of this, just apparently too lazy or unwilling for some unclear reason. Reread what you wrote, but this time try to think of a UI/UX issue that this comment _does not_ cover. Indeed, if we can start blaming the user for every UX trouble, this world would be a very different place, and not a place I would rather live in.
throw10920 4y ago
> Seems like a very weird way of blaming a well defined system for your unwillingness to meet its prerequisites. > just apparently too lazy or unwilling for some unclear reason. > Just bizarre. This is a very emotionally manipulative and accusatory comment that certainly does not meet HN's guidelines, and doesn't actually address any of the problems that the GP stated.
- baumy 4y ago
  No, I don't agree. I directly address the problems by arguing that they aren't actually problems. I feel I plainly stated the reality of the situation as it was described, and was not manipulative and accusatory in any way. I do not appreciate your characterization however. I will likely not respond further as this will quickly become non constructive.
  - flangola7 4y ago
    > No, I don't agree. I directly address the problems by arguing that they aren't actually problems. I feel I plainly stated the reality of the situation as it was described, and was not manipulative and accusatory in any way. I do not appreciate your characterization however. You can't argue that something isn't a problem when it is self-evident. Trying to do so is manipulative, regardless of whether or not you appreciate that fact. This sounds like something I would expect to hear from an MBA, not an engineer.
  - throw10920 4y ago
    > I will likely not respond further as this will quickly become non constructive. It was non-constructive from the moment you made your comment with highly manipulative phrases like "Seems like a very weird way of blaming a well defined system for your unwillingness to meet its prerequisites", "You are capable of this, just apparently too lazy or unwilling for some unclear reason", "For those of us who managed to", and "Just bizarre." Your comment does not meet the HN guidelines, was not constructive, and was downvoted and flagged accordingly.

Nanana909 4y ago

> I don't use the app So then why attempt to go to a store that’s entirely based on using the app? The store concept is based around your account - and you didn’t know your account details. The app can help avoid this, but you also refused to use the app. How is this any different than someone who refuses to use their password to sign in to Amazon.com and complains about not being able to submit a return? Or going to a store and not having your credit card but being annoyed that you can’t use your credit card?

nfinished 4y ago
[flagged]
TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
He was trying to return a package, not shop at the store. You can return Amazon packages at WholeFoods, Kohl’s and the UPS Store using the Amazon website on your phone — app not needed. I do it all the time because I refuse to use their app.
- Nanana909 4y ago
  > He was trying to return a package, not shop at the store. So then it sounds like he’s not in very a strong position to declare the stores as an unmitigated failure…
  - adrianmonk 4y ago
    After re-reading, I think their point may have been to describe that one experience as a total failure, not the cashierless store concept in general. But it definitely can be read either way, so that's confusing.
- ilikehurdles 4y ago
  And yet the app _is_ needed at these stores. Perhaps he was confused and thought he was at a Kohl’s, a store that doesn’t need the app.

di456 4y ago

Is the app required for a return or can you use your credit card to enter? I've always just used my credit card to enter but have never done a return at one.

amelius 4y ago

The endgame in capitalism is something that is remarkably close to a bureaucratic all-controlling government.

annexrichmond 4y ago
Only if monopolies are allowed to flourish, because, that's what the government basically is - a monopoly on all services for which there's no private counterparts.
- permo-w 4y ago
  does that not seem at all contrived to you? government is an organisation of humans within a geographical region that work for the benefit of all the other humans within that region. it's as simple as that. it's the exception not the rule for there to be no private competition; unless you live in Cuba, in which case you're describing communism, not government
  - pharrington 4y ago
    Just to clarify, communism is a specific type of government. (but yeah i assume you're saying its not government in general)
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  Like capitalists don't aspire to be monopolists. You'll do so too if you become successful.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  Monopolies are a fact of Capitalism. One of the roles of government is to provide a counter balance to that.
  - marsven_422 4y ago
    [dead]
- 4y ago

jdlyga 4y ago

It's just the normal Amazon app, not anything special. And not to judge, but I think a password manager is really beneficial. You can even self-host it if you're concerned about security.

TAKEMYMONEY 4y ago

Did you have the QR code they email you for dropoff returns? No app needed (besides email).

jonny_eh 4y ago

So did you get your refund? If so, sounds like it wasn’t a disaster.

permo-w 4y ago
if they didn't, they'd undoubtedly have mentioned it I have no love for amazon, but besides the lack of receipt, this seems like an issue they created for themselves
nprateem 4y ago
Well since the return process took the best part of 15 minutes for this state-of-the-art store, and I would have had no recourse if the refund didn't go through (since I had no proof I'd returned it), I won't be rushing back in a hurry. So in that respect it was a failure.
- gizmo385 4y ago
  15 minutes to return something honestly seems… fine? Like I’ve gone to brick and mortar stores to return things and had it take upwards of an hour for the overworked customer service folks to make it through the line of folks
  - nprateem 4y ago
    If I'd known it was going to take like 10 times longer than usual I'd have gone somewhere else or not gone on my lunch break.

cronix 4y ago

I always return/drop off at UPS. In and out in 5 minutes generally. But I guess UPS has been in the business of the extremely complicated "scan preprinted return label with hand held laser" game longer than Amazon.

anigbrowl 4y ago

Or, just log in to your account in the browser and the return page has a QR code for the store employe to scan. I did a return a few weeks ago and I was in and out in 30 seconds, even though I don't use the app.

nprateem 4y ago
I had my QR code. That's why the employee had to go for the scanner. I couldn't get to the returns counter.

CamperBob2 4y ago

The turnstiles are unfortunate. They send the wrong psychological messages -- complexity, exclusion, a barrier to entry. I can't imagine that they stop any actual thieves, considering how brazen shoplifters are these days. And they really aren't necessary. The Amazon app has location services permission; it knows when I'm in the store. That's apparently enough to track me along with my purchases, and to flag anyone who tries to enter the store without the app. So what's the point of the turnstiles, exactly?

throwaway426079 4y ago
I've been in the Aldi version of this. By scanning an app qr code at the barrier I am associating my appearance with that account at that time. I can also bring someone into the store with me on my account (by the slightly clunky process of passing my phone back over the barrier to them).
wiseleo 4y ago
To keep people who don’t have a means to pay at that store by having the app installed and configured with their account away from the sales floor. It’s one thing to stop a shoplifter at a normal store. Turnstiles reinforce the notion that this facility actively enforces access control. This is similar to Passport Control line at the airport. If I have Mobile passport (MPC) app installed, I use a dedicated and usually empty lane. The same is true if I have my Global Entry card. It takes a couple of minutes to setup MPC while walking, but most people choose to wait in the main line.