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I recently found out cursive (aka. joined up writing aka. running writing aka. .... Handwriting) isn't thought in US schools any more. This blew my mind. I und
by roomey 4y ago
I recently found out cursive (aka. joined up writing aka. running writing aka. .... Handwriting) isn't thought in US schools any more.
This blew my mind. I understand the reasoning behind dropping it from the curriculum, but hearing that students couldn't do cursive really, blew my mind. And I'm not even sure why it surprised me so much!
- extrememacaroni 4y agoWhat? US students don't write by hand anymore? ...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- smnrchrds 4y agoThe print, i.e. write detached letters, not attached letter like cursive.
- Dalewyn 4y agoI think there is a fair argument to be made that handwriting !== cursive, and that equating the two is needlessly confusing. Handwriting is an action, whereas cursive is a form of writing. Do we call handwriting Japanese "cursive"? Of course not.
- Izkata 4y agoNot the usual kind, but a cursive form does exist: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursive_script_(East_Asia) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursive_script_(East_Asia)
- nerdponx 4y agoIt's unfortunate because taking notes by hand is still a useful skill, and writing in cursive is much, much more efficient. I did learn cursive in school, but didn't learn it very well: my hand would cramp up, and I couldn't keep up at "meeting pace" without my letters turning into scribbles. I had to spend a long time as an adult trying to improve my handwriting to get to the point where I felt like I could take legible, useful meeting notes. Meanwhile I hate typing notes because I feel like typing forces me to think too linearly. Whereas in meetings I tend to end up with several clumps of loosely-connected notes, and I tend to spread them out somewhat evenly across the page. So even though I can type faster than I can write by hand, I still prefer writing by hand because of the freedom I get on paper. I also think the act of writing somehow helps me remember things better than typing. And e-ink just feels wrong, it's like the worst of both.
- rhaps0dy 4y ago> writing in cursive is much, much more efficient That is very false. It’s kind of slow compared to handwriting print-looking letters (eg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/D'Nealian) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/D'Nealian) Source: https://theproductiveengineer.net/is-it-faster-to-write-in-cursive-or-print/ https://theproductiveengineer.net/is-it-faster-to-write-in-c... And also for many years I wrote cursive, then I switched to something that looks like D’Neal, and it was somewhat faster and easier to read (but not super fast)
- ghaff 4y agoI actually wonder if shorthand would be a useful skill for a lot of people. I never learned it (though I sort of had my own informal system) and, indeed, basically never typed until college (and never learned to touch-type) because those were things secretaries did back in the day.
- IncRnd 4y agoIt's used by court reporters. I've been in a couple of depositions, mediations, and a lawsuit. The court reporters use a special device that works for fast shorthand typing, and their fingers blaze across those devices. I know that shorthand would decrease the time that I spend taking notes or would increase the quality of the notes.
- falcor84 4y agoPlaying the devil's advocate here, why should we teach handwriting at all? Why not just have first-graders learn to type?
- nerdponx 4y agoWe did both in school in the late 90s. We had "computer" class 2-3 times a week where we learned touch typing, as well as "penmanship" where we learned print and cursive handwriting.
- shrimp_emoji 4y agoBased. I write by hand so rarely now that it hurts my hand to do. (And I was in the cursive cohort. Pretty useless skill in retrospect lol. It's just a way less legible version of regular handwriting.)
- ghaff 4y agoI learned Palmer script. It was always my worst class in grade school. But I can look through years of notes and see it steadily deteriorate to the point that I really can't do cursive any longer (and yes, it hurts my hand to do it for anything beyond a minimal period).
- throwanem 4y agoIf you want to learn to write in a way that isn't painful, learn to use a fountain pen - a $20 Pilot Metropolitan, or a Lamy Safari for I believe about the same, will do more than well enough. Pencils and ballpoints, and to a lesser but real extent most rollerballs, require so much force to mark the paper that you can't help getting a cramp. Fountain pen ink is thinner and flows more easily, so all you have to do is steer the pen. This makes a very significant difference. Don't start with a gold-nibbed pen - both of those I named use steel. Gold admittedly feels nicer to use, but you need the transitional step to learn better habits; steel is much more forgiving of excess force, and you'll know on your own when you're ready for a more delicate and expressive nib. I used to hate to write longhand, too. I've been using fountain pens for about half a decade now. A few days ago I used one to work out a complex idea over eight A5 pages with no need to pause save occasionally for thought, and my wrist wasn't sore afterward. Here as elsewhere, choosing the proper tool makes all the difference.
- favaq 4y ago"isn't thought" you say?
- Liquix 4y agoAs a consequence, probably not that either.
- _n_b_ 4y ago> cursive […] isn’t taught in US schools any more. I was dubious, so I googled. According to this[1], 21 states require cursive as part of the curriculum, and some admittedly older data[2] suggests that 90% of students get some amount of cursive handwriting instruction. [1] https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/great-cursive-writing-debate https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/great... [2] https://drs.dadeschools.net/informationcapsules/IC0916.pdf https://drs.dadeschools.net/informationcapsules/IC0916.pdf
- computerphage 4y agoIt was required for me, but that didn't mean anything real. We "learned" it for like two weeks then I never used it again.
- ghaff 4y agoOn the other hand, I don't remember how much Palmer script instruction I had but it was probably a class over multiple years back in the 60s.
- felipemnoa 4y agoI think that is all you really need. I mean, once you know how to write, learning cursive could be done in a few hours, it is fairly simple. After that it is up to the student whether to use it or not. I was never required to use it but I still liked it so the more I used it the better I got. Honestly, I really do not understand all the complaning about cursive. Learning to read and write was harder (I imagine cause I don't actually remember struggling with it, it just came naturally) . Learning cursive is just a simple extension of it.
- kalleboo 4y ago> Honestly, I really do not understand all the complaning about cursive My memory of school was everything was required to be turned in cursive, but I was so bad at it that I wrote everything in print, then wrote a version in cursive, and then turned in both versions so there was one legible version and one version to fulfill the rules. It was a pain and I hated it, so it's a bad memory that it still feels cathartic to complain about.
- singron 4y agoI learned cursive in 3rd grade in the US, but I didn't use it since except for the specific letters of my own signature (which no longer really resembles the original letters anyway), so I've largely unlearned it. In hindsight, it was a huge waste of time. They should just teach enough to write your own name and then spend the rest of the year on reading, math, or typing. You could say the same for Spanish. They teach it K-12 in a lot of districts but somehow the students never become fluent and rapidly lose any skills they gain.
- ghaff 4y agoSome people are doubtless more gifted in picking up languages. But my experience getting pretty good grades in 4 years of high school French is this: Traveling in France with a friend who never had any French, I actually could read and somewhat speak a fair bit she couldn't. But I was nowhere remotely near fluent/competent. In general, studying a language and never being immersed mostly leads to pretty surface knowledge.
- LoveMortuus 4y agoI write by hand a lot, actually most of my writing is by hand and I've pretty much always written in cursive since elementary school, the only times I don't is for forms, those I write in all capitals. I know that this is wrong and that it's only in my head but I see pretty much all other writing that isn't in cursive as childish. The sheer possibility that people might finish schools without knowing how to write in cursive is kind of worrying, because I fear that this is walking on a path towards a world where people stop writing by hand and in time even forget how to write... And you might say that they won't forget because they constantly see and read the letters, but I can read hiragana and katakana, I can't write them though or it takes me quite a lot of thinking to get the image of the "letter" into my mind to be able to write it. And that's just because I don't write in then pretty much at all. You lose what you don't use.
- Dalewyn 4y agoThe problem with cursive is it has no relation to literally anything else. The shapes are only marginally similar to print, and some letters like Z and capital F and G are downright arcane. Trying to read certain cursive, particularly bad or heavily-stylized ones, is downright impossible. Handwriting can be just as easily done using print, and is how I've always handwritten everything. The only time I use cursive is when I sign stuff, and only because I followed everyone else using cursive to sign. Print is also generally much easier to read, too; regardless the skill or style of the writer. This is distinctly different from WorProBaka ("word processing idiot"), where people of all ages (this affects nearly everyone, not just the young) forget how to write certain kanji simply because Kakijun (stroke order) and their overall complexity easily fade from memory without constant reinforcement from common use. These people can all still read the kanji they've forgotten how to write.
- Izkata 4y ago> The shapes are only marginally similar to print, and some letters like Z and capital F and G are downright arcane. There's an informal style that uses printed capital letters connected to cursive lower letters. Solves a lot of those problems. Also don't forget cursive capital Q.
- lern_too_spel 4y agoThe vast majority of people write faster in print than in cursive with a pencil or ballpoint pen due to reduced friction when raising the pencil or pen (most recent study I could find: https://www.academia.edu/16329948/The_Relationship_Between_Handwriting_Style_and_Speed_and_Legibility https://www.academia.edu/16329948/The_Relationship_Between_H...). It is a waste of classroom time to optimize for fountain pen writing speed.
- IncRnd 4y agoWhen my kids were young, both my wife and I taught them cursive. When the kids each got into school, despite their pretty good or excellent penmanships, they were all told by teachers not to use cursive. The teachers each said they were unable to read cursive.
- LorenPechtel 4y agoI find that unacceptable. There is little need for most people to *learn* cursive these days beyond signatures. However, people should be able to *read* cursive for another lifespan because they're going to encounter it.
- snickerbockers 4y agoCursive was so fucking stupid. I wasted years of my life on that and then I never used it except to sign my name.
- xboxnolifes 4y agoI don't find it surprising that it was dropped. I was taught cursive in elementary. Then no teacher or professor from high school on ever accepted cursive assignments. So, what is the point of practicing it? That's not even getting into how terrible cursive is the write with ball-point pens.