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How peptide injections became the answer to everything
- victorbjorklund 4y agoWhy though? Can't you just take a protein supplement? I can see that it could be useful if you have some disease that makes you unable to get it from diet but if you are healthy what is the point?
- A_D_E_P_T 4y agoPeptides are protein-based drugs, like insulin. With a few exceptions, they're not orally bioavailable -- your stomach breaks apart the amino acid chains and reduces them to their smaller component parts. The ones mentioned in the article are either agents that assist with soft tissue recovery from exercise, or spur the body to release growth hormone and IGF-1. (i.e. are "growth hormone secretagogues.") You could inject growth hormone directly -- which is a very large peptide -- but it's much more expensive and can also be much harder to get, on account of the fact that it's more tightly regulated and controlled.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- eurasiantiger 4y agoOpioid peptide injections must be very popular.
- moremetadata 4y agoCasomorphin is a biologically active opioid peptide part of a global market worth US $871 billion globally and you don't have to inject! Who says illicit drugs cant be legalised?
- tbalsam 4y agoGood thing I horribly react to that for about 3 days! The panic attacks are not worth it. Or the gluteomorphins for that matter lol, but that's more brain fog/wanting to break out of the sloggy body/state of mind it gives me. Super crazy stuff.
- moremetadata 4y agoPhosphatidylserine evaporates brain fog and the corpus cavernosum has a hard time leaving that stuff alone!
- beardedwizard 4y agoI supplement ps100 acutely with exercise. Could you elaborate on your comment a bit?
- moremetadata 4y agohttps://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/phosphatidylserine-uses-and-risks https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/phosphatidyls...
- victor106 4y ago> US $871 billion Really??? source?
- blevin 4y agoI believe OP was referring to dairy, digestion of which produces opioid peptides. “In 2021, the value of the dairy market worldwide was estimated to be about 871 billion U.S. dollars“ https://www.statista.com/topics/4649/dairy-industry/ https://www.statista.com/topics/4649/dairy-industry/
- tsol 4y agoI swear this is why Fairlife milkshakes are so good. I swear I feel a buzz on it. I was quitting painkillers I was prescribed, and when I'd drink one I swear I'd feel a tiny better mentally. It sounds crazy but think about this-- they have 30 grams of protein per 12oz bottle. This means they have to concentrate proteins, including casomorphin. So it would make sense you might have a concentrated level of these morphine-mimetic peptides
- _3u10 4y agoHow long til we have cellular peptide cake with mint frosting?
- wumms 4y agomax. 347 years 20 days 41 minutes 29 seconds [0] [0] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=Mar+24%2C+2370+9%3A07%3A55+am+-+now https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=Mar+24%2C+2370+9%3A07%3...
- beefman 4y agohttps://archive.is/Y6zaU https://archive.is/Y6zaU
- voldacar 4y agoDoes bpc-157 even do anything?
- isoprophlex 4y agoYeah what is this article saying? It is basically a long list of names of pseudo-celebrities that inject themselves with these peptides... but no actual insight into what science says. Except for someone practicing "generative medicine" stating that it works.
- msla 4y ago> It is basically a long list of names of pseudo-celebrities that inject themselves with these peptides... but no actual insight into what science says. I get the impression that, for the author, "person you should have heard of does it" is the science. It's an advertisement.
- bayesian_horse 4y agoUsually those trends get started with research papers that find some benefit at the very least in model animals. I'm not current on what peptides are used for what and with what evidence and what effect...
- bayesian_horse 4y agoIt definitely does something positive for rats. Not clear yet on the benefits for Humans and under what conditions.
- Temporary_31337 4y agoSteroids at least work. Injecting peptides…. I guess you could just get them from a healthy diet.
- bayesian_horse 4y agoNope. You didn't read the article. The peptide hormones usually don't even occur in "a healthy diet" or at least a common one, nor would they survive a digestive tract. They are chains of a few aminoacids, essentially very very short proteins. Insulin falls under this category. Yes, they have to be kept relatively cool and have to be injected, most or all of them. And they are genuinely useful (not just the insulin). Semaglutid for example was first isolated from some reptile's salivary gland (healthy diet??) and is very effective at controlling diabetes and regulating appetite in people who have an obvious issue with that.
- rbanffy 4y ago> from some reptile's salivary gland Kissing dragons is part of a healthy diet.
- A_D_E_P_T 4y agoBPC-157 is a small (15 amino acid) gastric peptide that's resistant to hydrolysis. All evidence suggests that it's orally bioavailable -- which means that you can get all of its benefits from consumption of BPC-157 pills or tablets -- and I've seen ZERO evidence that it's more effective via injection. I think that the people who rush to inject it, rather than simply take it orally, are addicted to needles or want to feel "hardcore."
- cactusplant7374 4y agoDexamethasone is orally available too but the general wisdom is that it's better used as a targeted injection. BPC-157 isn't well studied in humans so I wouldn't expect there to be any evidence either way.
- A_D_E_P_T 4y agoBPC-157, when injected, is almost always injected subcutaneously. In which case it's not "targeted" at all.
- wholinator2 4y agoIs that true? Genuinely asking. Because all of the "conventional wisdom" I've picked up is that ingesting it works great for stomach ailments like ulcers with a small amount of 'fixing' throughout the rest of the body. But if you sprained your knee, you're better off injecting it at the knee site than eating it. People and probable placebo seem to think injecting really targets it. Is subcutaneous injection really that untargeted? And does the highly interested patient have the background to know how to inject it properly, if there really is a way to target it?
- A_D_E_P_T 4y agoYes. The paper "pentadecapeptide BPC 157 (PL 14736) improves ligament healing in the rat" (Sikiric et al. 2010) examined BPC-157 orally and via IP injection -- there was very little difference between the two methods. And this was in an animal model where the MCL ligament, in the leg, was surgically transected. Further, consider insulin. It's typically administered as an aqueous solution injected subcutaneously, and it's absorbed quickly and systemically, with local effects in the near-zero range. It's possible to make an aqueous solution for SC injection that might have some degree of local efficacy, if it's injected near a target site. This, however, would involve tinkering with the PH of the solution to induce drug precipitation, post-injection, near the injection site. It's complicated, and not the sort of thing that gray market research chemists do.
- noduerme 4y agoI ordered a 1/4" guitar cable on Amazon the other day, and in the envelope they accidentally included a huge jar of dietary supplement pills, apparently made out of ox bile. Ox bile. I called my girlfriend, I said I know you take every supplement known to Man and I'm gonna throw these out. She was like "oh it probably helps you digest, save them". And so it goes.
- amelius 4y agoIt's very thoughtful of Amazon to recognize that you might need some help digesting that guitar cable.
- noduerme 4y agoFavorite comment on HN this year ;)
- esperent 4y ago> Ox bile Is that really weird? I take lactase enzyme which was far as I know was originally extracted from cow intestines (until they developed a better method using yeast). There's also a lot of interest in fecal transplants for people with digestive issues. So, while I've never heard of ox bile supplement it doesn't seem unreasonable that it would work. Rejecting it out of hand because of the name is kinda silly. You should listen to your girlfriend here, it sounds like she's more educated on this topic than you are.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ifyoubuildit 4y agoIt seems like something to maybe do a little research on rather than taking the first one that randomly shows up on your doorstep though. Also a lot of people are hesitant to put anything into their bodies from Amazon, though with supplements I think a lot of it tends to be bullshit filler materials anyway.
- narklord 4y agoProfessional sporting teams in Australia have been doing this a decade ago. In 2012, an AFL (Australian Football) team injected 34 players with the banned peptide Thymosin Beta-4. FWIW they were crazy fit and won their first 8 games of the season. Their captain won the highest award at the end of the season while the coach was even said to be injecting a peptide (Melanotan II) for a summer tan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essendon_Football_Club_supplements_saga https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essendon_Football_Club_suppl...
- arp242 4y agoSaga sure sounds a lot more poetic than scandal. I propose we rename it all: "The watergate saga", "Anthony Weiner dickpic saga", "The windrush saga", etc.
- fbdab103 4y agoI read stories like this, and all I can think is - how can I try some of this stuff? If it is safe, well-tolerated, and improves muscle building/repair, I would happily enjoy easier muscle improvement without feeling any Puritanical misgivings. They can even pre-abolish me from all professional sports for life.
- afunctionof 4y agoIt's pretty easy to find vendors if you go lurking web fora. I recommend the one that only operates over email.
- fbdab103 4y agoI mean more over-the-counter and less dark web.
- Gordonjcp 4y agoDietary supplements, goopy "meal replacement" stuff, injecting proteins now... Have these people considered this thing called "eating food"?
- kevviiinn 4y agoPeptides in this context are functional not dietary. When you eat protein it gets broken down and rebuilt into numerous proteins or used for energy. In this context they are taking a peptide which is just a short amino acid chain but it has very specific functional characteristics. Normally peptides don't make it past the digestive tract which would ruin their specific functional characteristics so, like insulin which is also a peptide, they must be injected to actually work
- jsonne 4y agoThe "research chemical" community on Reddit is fascinating and horrifying. People setting up scientific sounding LLCs to virtual offices and ordering all sorts of not for human consumption chemicals that are variations of Ritalin, alzheimer drugs, and more in the name of cognitive enhancement. It's basically legal pharma abuse without even needing a shady doctor but actually even more risky since these chemicals haven't undergone human trials and these people could well be doing permanent damage.
- j-bos 4y agoSomeone's gotta do it, and if they're volunteering themselves and sharing results, they're near good company: https://www.eater.com/2020/1/28/21112258/pbs-the-poison-squad-documentary-food-regulation-history-deborah-blum-interview https://www.eater.com/2020/1/28/21112258/pbs-the-poison-squa...
- zug_zug 4y agoIt's not really research unless it's blind. Plus who knows what long-term side-effects may come up down the road (some people were discussing cancer risk of BPC one peptide reddit thread)
- jsonne 4y agoIn this case they do not. These are research chemicals already in various stages of trials and are intended to help serious scientists conduct experiments. The promotion of potentially very damaging pharmaceutical level drugs is concerning. I take plenty of supplements, including not particularly well known ones like Agmatine, NAC, etc. but research chemicals is a whole other level and has serious potential for lifelong issues. It shouldn't be promoted imho.
- yosito 4y agoI find the topic of peptides interesting. Recently, I tried Kambo (a frog toxin that is applied to burns in your skin by a shaman, a traditional remedy in the Amazon). It led to an instant remission of my autoimmune condition. Research about how it works is scarce, but the general information I could find is that it's related to the peptides contained in the Kambo. I may start looking into peptide injections, since the science on those seems a little more mature.
- n8henrie 4y agoIf you're comfortable sharing (no worries if not), what autoimmune condition?
- parineum 4y agoHe probably shouldn't lest people take his anecdote too seriously.
- quitit 4y agoNot the commenter, but as far as unconventional anecdotes for autoimmune disorders go, how does intestinal worms whet your appetite? https://www.healthline.com/health-news/patients-resorting-to-worm-therapy-to-treat-autoimmune-diseases https://www.healthline.com/health-news/patients-resorting-to... Study from the article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3894910/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3894910/
- techdragon 4y agoThe worms actually make a lot of sense if you think about the hygiene hypothesis. A highly simplified explanation is that Autoimmune diseases are the body fighting with itself, but by introducing a clear 100% threat of the kind our immune systems have evolved for millennia to fight, even if it doesn’t have to fight very hard, it’s basically a distraction, a lot of the time (because medicine is mostly statistical it’s never always the case with anything) the immune system attacks the “clear and present threat” instead of the stuff it was fighting in the patients own body. It makes a lot of sense, it’s gross but it does actually make sense and appears to work with measurable results… but it’s extremely hard to push for its development into a normal medically prescribed treatment given that it’s a parasite that we actively try to get rid of most of the time, it’s potentially infectious to other people, it’s gross and off putting to a lot of people (including doctors), and I’m sure there’s probably some sensible FDA related red tape reasons I’m not aware of too. But at least it makes sense. Weird medicine that make sense is still at least medicine.
- zug_zug 4y agoThis is an awful article. It offers no hard science, and functions at best like an ad for something which could very-well be dangerous. It's nice to know the "miracle cure fad" of the day, but I'd expect a more nuanced approach from a newspaper.
- beowulfey 4y agoI was just talking about this with my coworkers. Another big anti-aging trend among the wealthy is intravenous NAD treatments ($800/session). Apparently people who do so feel wonderful afterwards. I want to know who is peddling these ideas. I am literally in the process of researching this and it is such an early hypothesis in the field. Who decided this was something worth trying? Clearly we are thinking along the same lines, and I’d love to hear their thoughts!
- lumost 4y agomed spa's are pretty unregulated. I'd imagine premium med spa's in premium locations try to be at the forefront of everything.