13 ms·

90% of Kidnappings in São Paulo result from dates on Tinder and similar apps

320 points by laurex 4y ago

yosito 4y ago
From the headline, I assumed that this was men kidnapping women. But it is actually men being baited by profiles of women an kidnapped or robbed. This is also quite common in Colombia. I heard a story of a Dutch guy who met a very eager woman from Tinder. She drugged his drink, and he ended up naked with no belongings at the bottom of a well. Somehow managed to escape alive.
- goldfeld 4y ago
  Yes, it seems the title is using "dates" only to attract eyeballs, even "matches" would be better here.
- jfengel 4y ago
  And it sounds like men in São Paulo need to start doing what women have been doing since the beginning of dating: always letting somebody know where they are, always meeting first in a public place, never taking a drink from anybody except a bartender. For men elsewhere, it's really good for them to know that women do this, and that this is why. You may know that you're not the man who does that, but they don't, and the consequences can be worse than losing your wallet. Practically every woman knows a woman who has been assaulted this way. Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time.
  - LanceH 4y ago
    Comment about the victims being male. Response about how men can change their behavior for women.
    - sn0wf1re 4y ago
      The response is how to take basic steps to protect one's self. Steps that are already common among women. Basic safety steps are not victim blaming, for example, wearing bright clothing at night to reduce the chance of being injured by motor vehicle. It seems you are implying that the comment is victim blaming, or if I take your statement less charitably it is flame bait implying that the comment above would cause outrage if the genders were swapped.
      - LanceH 4y ago
        > Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time. All the points were valid, but when people talk about the invisibility of male victims...this is it.
        saagarjha 4y ago
        This advice is literally exactly what every woman is told. It has nothing to do with male victims.
        chitowneats 4y ago
        The article is about overwhelmingly male victims. It's not always about you!
        ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 4y ago
        Saagar is a male forename, but yes, reducing kidnapping to "losing your wallet" in an attempt at whataboutery is a bit tasteless.
        chitowneats 4y ago
        You're right. I assumed the commenter was male. I'm just recalling how many times women in my life said that to me in response to me daring to bring up any male-centered concerns. Things like Me Too witch hunts of men later proven to be innocent.
    - elil17 4y ago
      Obviously no one should have to be so careful. We should aspire to have a society where all people are safe from crime. But this is the reality of the world right now, and it is helpful to suggest that men take a page from women's playbooks when it comes to personal safety.
    - jfengel 4y ago
      You're absolutely right. Just as we should be teaching boys not to assault women, we should be teaching girls not to drug and rob men. That doesn't seem to be as big a problem yet, but we should nip it in the bud before it spreads beyond São Paulo. Every parent should teach their daughters that robbing men is wrong. Just as every parent should be teaching their sons that raping women is wrong. There is no excuse. Whether he's wearing a Rolex, or she's wearing a miniskirt, that's their choice to make. It is not an invitation, and you are not entitled to anything. Rape is a crime, and robbery is a crime. We should prosecute both, and make sure our children get the message that it is unacceptable. I appreciate your reminder that the criminal, not the victim, is to blame. It's unfortunate that people do have to protect themselves, but I hadn't intended my advice to suggest that that's the only change we should make. We already have laws and must enforce them.
      - pelasaco 4y ago
        don't forget the every woman is a robber in potential /s
      - callmetom 4y ago
        [dead]
      - gowld 4y ago
        Oh, we forgot to tell criminals to not be criminal. What a silly overight.
        jfengel 4y ago
        Unfortunately, this is a real problem for women. A lot of boys get the impression that women are "teasing" them and "deserve" to be assaulted. Every woman who files rape charges knows that she's going to have her sexual history questioned, and be asked what she was wearing, as if that made a difference to the legality. You wouldn't think that "No means no" is a lesson we'd have to teach, but not only do we have to, but a lot of people will push back on it. So I'm being a bit facetious in my reply, but I'm using the opportunity of the OP's self-pity to reiterate: this is a thing that women go through all the time.
    - majormajor 4y ago
      This advice is given all the damn time. You've never seen an article about how to be safe on blind dates or such? A quick google search turns up several. Is it that women's problems are invisible to you until men start having some of them?
    - asveikau 4y ago
      Does that bother you, sir? I can tell you that I'm not bothered by this at all.
  - hcarvalhoalves 4y ago
    The reason this happens with men is what the article doesn't mention: most/all the victims are married men cheating on their partners. So, they arrange dates on empty or far away places, late night and don't communicate where they're going.
    - elzbardico 4y ago
      Just out of curiousity, where did you get this data from? could you share the link?
      - frozenlettuce 4y ago
        https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-27/why-brazilians-visit-love-motels https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-27/why-brazi... These love motels are usually in surrounding areas (as building codes restrict them being placed in central areas to avoid prostitution)
        flebron 4y ago
        I don't see a link between that Bloomberg article and these kidnappings happening mostly to married men cheating. Nor is it the case that "love motels" are primarily used for cheating. We have plenty of those in Argentina. As the Bloomberg article indicates, they serve a social need because of the traditional multigenerational family homes people live in.
        iksub1 4y ago
        And hardly will find in other article due the fact that cheaters will lie to protect their identify if they ever come across a survey or interview. The "love motel" being used for cheating is a known thing across brazilians and still is not easy to find in writing. Also, BR motels are different from the Argentian ones (at least the ones that I saw in Buenos Aires).
        frozenlettuce 4y ago
        the list was to give some sort of reference to the statement "they arrange dates on empty or far away places, late night and don't communicate where they're going" posted above
  - coldtea 4y ago
    >And it sounds like men in São Paulo need to start doing what women have been doing since the beginning of dating: always letting somebody know where they are, always meeting first in a public place Doesn't help when nobody knows or will find the attackers...
  - kerpotgh 4y ago
    [dead]
  - MandieD 4y ago
    "For men elsewhere, it's really good for them to know that women do this, and that this is why. You may know that you're not the man who does that, but they don't, and the consequences can be worse than losing your wallet. Practically every woman knows a woman who has been assaulted this way. Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time." This is solid. Guys, do not take it personally when a woman who doesn't know you extremely well is taking these kinds of safety measures. It's because either we've personally had a bad experience with someone who seemed like a decent guy, or have been told about a bad experience someone else had. We're not refusing the drink you thoughtfully brought us from the bar because we're picky; we're doing it because we have an acquaintance who woke up in someone else's bed, unplanned. Knowing what safety measures women normally take will help you avoid feeling slighted. It's not you, it's the bad behavior of enough of your fellow fellows, bad behavior you're unlikely to directly witness. If we didn't think you were a decent guy, we probably wouldn't be going out with you in the first place (or were too scared to say no).
    - red-iron-pine 4y ago
      Not sure why this is being downvoted. Used to be a bartender and there were several times I watched a woman get a drink and take a fake sip, and then wait until the gentlemen is away and ask for a different one. Like she was bought a rum and coke and then moseyed up to the bar and asked for a replacement one -- "I'm not sure I trust his drink" -- fair enough. We also had a sign in the ladies room: "ask a bartender / waiter / bouncer if their friend Trudy is doing okay, that means you or someone with you is being creeped on and are concerned for safety". Only had that chat 2-3 times, but it did happen.
  - fennecfoxy 4y ago
    Nah, we just gotta man up.
- dustingetz 4y ago
  "thirst trap"
- InCityDreams 4y ago
  >I heard a story of a... Sauce?
  - whymauri 4y ago
    Not the same story, but it's covered frequently in Colombian national and local news. Here is an example: https://ktla.com/news/local-news/a-cruel-and-senseless-crime-orange-county-man-killed-in-colombia-family-raising-money-to-bring-him-home/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/a-cruel-and-senseless-crime... The highest risk cities are Medellin (high expat population) and Cartagena (high tourist population). No matter how much I tell my friends not to use Tinder in Latin America, they still try and end up in close calls. One friend ended up in a 'Millionaire's Ride' extortioned to buy overpriced cocaine.
    - explaininjs 4y ago
      Going to Colombia in a week. Not planning on dating around, but do you have any other tips for staying safe as a solo traveller? Not trying to end up at the bottom of a well.
      - Mystery-Machine 4y ago
        On the contrary to Brazil and Mexico (for example) the good news in Colombia is that people fight back. They don't like crime and so, if they see someone being robbed, they assault the robber. So just stay in the populated areas and you'll be fine. In Mexico and Brazil people turn their heads around and you're on your own...
        matheusmoreira 4y ago
        I have a video of a brazilian bystander deciding to mess up a crime in progress by kicking an armed teenager in the leg and knocking him down. Teenager got up and executed him in cold blood for the insult, then resumed whatever he was doing.
      - whymauri 4y ago
- TechBro8615 4y ago
  Remember, lads: if it's too good to be true, it probably is.
- peteradio 4y ago
  > ended up naked with no belongings at the bottom of a well At least he wasn't thirsty
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    That's how he ended up there in the first place
- medellin 4y ago
  I would wager it’s popular any place where you have a large number of tourists who think its easy to pick up local girls because they have more money than the locals.
- whoiscroberts 4y ago
  Ah, the old Cardi B con
expertentipp 4y ago
Male profiles have negative value for dating apps, so it's better for a man to ignore fishy profiles than to report them with any negative feedback and risk a nuclear ban. Can we shred the Match group into pieces, please?
- xwdv 4y ago
  Not true. If you are a paying member you are the only type of profile that matters.
  - expertentipp 4y ago
    Not true. Paying account is quite obvious from the female perspective. Sooner you'll be a target for scammers and gold diggers, at best Instagram and OnlyFans influencers will reach out to you more aggressively.
mrkramer 4y ago
For example dating app can require background security check in order to register and use the app. Sounds like a good business idea. Somebody do it....I have other ideas that I work on.
- sn0wf1re 4y ago
  Wouldn't that just lead to a false sense of security? Surely the background check would not be 100% at preventing bad actors.
  - danrocks 4y ago
    Worse: may lead to liability as well. "but Tinder said it was secure due to bg checks!"
    - gowld 4y ago
      You mean like they already do? https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/13/match-expands-tinders-free-background-checks-to-two-more-dating-apps/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/13/match-expands-tinders-free...
  - mrkramer 4y ago
    I'm just throwing ideas around but I thought about it for some time; with background security checks you could create a dating app or shall I see dating environment for upper-class "elite" people to date, something like European aristocracy did back in the day. For example on top of checking their background for criminal past you could also check their ancestry, their monthly income, their wealth etc. or in another words their social status/class. I like to play video games and every time when I think about software ideas I tend to compare them to video games and dating apps remind me of Crusader Kings or something like that.
- gowld 4y ago
  They do. https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/13/match-expands-tinders-free-background-checks-to-two-more-dating-apps/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/13/match-expands-tinders-free...
thriftwy 4y ago
In St. Petersburg, Russia, there was reportedly a restaurant where a fake date would invite men and then quote them exorbitant sum (order of magnitude higher than expected) for food and drink. All the profits, none of the risks of criminal persecution. Russian has a slang word, dynamo, for the attractive women who date without romantic interest just to get dined & maybe some presents, and then bail out.
- numbers_guy 4y ago
  Apparently that is common in many tourist traps, not only in Russia.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    I've seen it as "get into a seedy bar, have women chat you up and ask whether they can join you for a drink, get presented a huge bill", but women going on dating apps to get men to the bars is a different level. It makes sense obviously, digitalization doesn't stop at scams.
- myth_drannon 4y ago
  It's very common scam and not only in Russia. A woman splits the profits with the restaurant that charges the naive Western tourists 10x of normal bill(actually it can be without a woman trap involvment). The same can happen with a clothing store. Some guys can spend like $1000 on woman's clothes which she promptly returns and gets part of her share. Heck even on Greek islands, many clubs had attractive ladies on payrol to get the guys in and buy drinks.
  - thriftwy 4y ago
    I don't believe they targeted foreign tourists specifically, rather than local dudes from Tinder.
    - gowld 4y ago
      Tourists are much easier marks for these scams. Locals know, have less money, and more local support.
honkler 4y ago
[flagged]
- standardUser 4y ago
  The General Social Survey found that "the portion of Americans 18 to 29 reporting no sex in the past year more than doubled between 2008 and 2018, to 23 percent." https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-ame...
  - honkler 4y ago
    23% in 2018. It was about ~35% or so in 2022 IIRC. And then you have to also factor in that men tend to lie a bit on these surveys. Also factor in that it's only asking if they got laid in the past 1 year. Do it 6 months, and the figure shoots way up. IMHO, the time gap should be no more than a month or so. That would define real incels. 1 year is way too much.
    - skyyler 4y ago
      "Real incels are people that haven't had sex for a month" What do you mean by this?
      - honkler 4y ago
        That men who want sex, but cannot have it for a period of month should be counted as incels regardless of whether they think they are incels or not. People seek divorce if their spouse isn't having sex with them for a month. I am applying that same heuristic to inceldom.
        standardUser 4y ago
        That's insane nonsense.
standardUser 4y ago
> “If I am 51 and she is 23, how can I not think I am being catfished for a possible robbery?” The man makes a fair point. Personally, I don't go on a date unless I am convinced this person and I have some things in common and would actually have a good time hanging out. If one party is worried, they can ask for a phone call/video chat or to exchange social media. I have a feeling many men are far less discerning and are simply "swiping right" on everyone and then engage with any of the resulting "matches" that give them the time of day.
- expertentipp 4y ago
  > I don't go on a date unless I am convinced this person and I have some things in common and would actually have a good time hanging out. If one party is worried, they can ask for a phone call/video chat or to exchange social media. In a balanced environment this would work. Dating, apartment rental, and job search markets notoriously aren't balanced environments. > men are far less discerning and are simply "swiping right" on everyone and then engage with any of the resulting "matches" that give them the time of day. This here is the reality. It doesn't matter what you want and feel.
- gowld 4y ago
  Why would every prostitute be a robber? If this is happening, it's a failure of law enforcement and sociery. I matched someone 1 year younger than me. I was catfished for a robbery -- she got my house, my money, and my kids.
- InCityDreams 4y ago
  >many men are far less discerning and are simply "swiping right" on everyone and then engage with any of the resulting "matches" Hey, customers - see how the app company is allowing you to be treated?
- thomastjeffery 4y ago
  Then your interest is romance. For many men, the intention of dating is sex. They are willing, if they must, to perform romance along the way; but that is a compromise, not a goal. The romance may become genuine in practice, but that still doesn't make it an explicit goal. This is the side-effect of a cultural narrative that pretends sex and romance to be one and the same.
kansface 4y ago
It seems like it would be trivially easy for the Police to set up stings.
- standardUser 4y ago
  Sure, and instead of wasting billions every year busting low-level drug dealers our governments could be going after spousal abusers and date-rapists and setting up stings for sexual assaults in high-crime areas. You know, crimes with actual victims. But preventing violence against women has always been among the lowest priorities for law enforcement. So naturally, sexual violence against men, which is far rarer, is even farther off the radar. But of course we gotta stop those pesky drugs users and small-time peddlers at any cost!
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  - kansface 4y ago
    This is story about kidnappings and extortion, no? Thats actual crime with actual victims.
    - Eisenstein 4y ago
      Re-read what the person wrote; this time take from it that the writer is saying 'it isn't going to happen because law enforcement have their priorities misaligned.'
  - fennecfoxy 4y ago
    Idk man recently there have been calls in the UK as to "what is the police/government doing to help with violence against women" But there has never been a call for me; the short guy targeted at bars/clubs because I'm an "easy" target. Male on male violence is the highest and it's just completely ignored for "boys will be boys". Men can read the aggression & will naturally cower/back off because we know we'll get hit, I've seen women at clubs being mouthy, pushy aggressive towards dudes bc they know their chance of being hit is so low. Not dismissing violence against women, just sad that even after some form of enlightenment where the police actually help women, I'll still be out here trying not to get into altercations with drunk assholes.
8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago
Out of all the dating apps Tinder has done the absolute bare minimum to ensure the safety of its members. The number of active fake profiles on there in large metropolitan areas is mind boggling. They've known this for years and done absolutely nothing to address it. I imagine it would affect the numbers significantly. I have completely given up on the app given the % of fake users who are there to take advantage of someone's loneliness.
- coupdejarnac 4y ago
  I'd wager that Match has contracted out the creation and maintenance of fake accounts.
  - slaw 4y ago
    Match and Tinder are owned by the same company. It looks like only front-end is different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_Group
    - coupdejarnac 4y ago
      Yes. I figured everyone familiar with dating apps knows that Match owns Tinder.
- technion 4y ago
  I'm fairly convinced if tinder actually killed fake profiles it would go bankrupt. Not in terms of total user count, but in terms of female user count. It's already basically a meme to talk about the horrible m/f ratio. The number floating around of 20% female doesn't take into account the high population of "don't respond to messages here, if you're hot hmu on my OF" profiles, which is about one in four profiles here. But moreover the number of crypto scammers is extremely high. At one point I had like eight reading the same script to me on the same day. And tinder actually makes it so you can't report them, seemingly going out of its way to protect this revenue stream.
- TrackerFF 4y ago
hugocbp 4y ago
Just a couple of notes: Pix is not an app but a platform (like INTERAC in Canada). It works with most banks and most people with bank account now have it. Not only that, it is not just a QR app. You can send money to any key, that can be: - An email - CPF (unique SIN / SSN number that in Brazil is not considered secret) - Telephone number - Randomly generated key The transactions are also, for the most part, instantaneous (think 1-2 seconds) and irreversible (as far as I know). Even if you only have in your phone apps for banks without a Pix key, it is trivial and fast to create one. Unfortunately the only way out of this is to never have on your phone a bank app (and they can even force you to download one on the spot if you are actually kidnapped). Also, from someone who was carjacked in the past in Brazil: this has always happened here. I think it is simply the delivery method that is changing. Unfortunately, ban those apps and the bad guys will just go back to randomly kidnapping / carjacking people on the streets of rich neighbourhoods like they did in the past.
- InCityDreams 4y ago
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  - deleted 4y ago
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  - potatototoo99 4y ago
    Jesus Christ.
  - hugocbp 4y ago
    Just to be clear: not everyone on the streets of a rich neighbourhood is rich. This is just where they go to try to commit those crimes. Actually some of those bad guys get so frustrated when they end up snatching someone that is not rich that they often physically hurt them or worst. So your comment is very out of place.
  - the-smug-one 4y ago
    You're on HN. You're probably rich relative to the would-be robbers in Brazil.
notjonheyman 4y ago
Best learn Jiu Jitsu, and pull guard when you're about to get robbed or kidnapped /s
- expertentipp 4y ago
  Does ju jutsu/whatever work against multiple attackers with knives?
  - notjonheyman 4y ago
    You missed my sarcasm hence the /s Rule number one of Jiu Jitsu = run/avoid getting into a fight in the first place. It's actually bad with multiple attackers because most likely you'll end up getting stomped on by the others.
graderjs 4y ago
What is tinder doing about this to make us safer?
idk1 4y ago
Sort of anecdotal but I now know two people who have been mugged on Grindr in London, one person had their new iPhone taken, and the other one their PS5 from their home, I would stress this advice, always meet someone for a coffee first somewhere busy and public before going somewhere private.
distant_hat 4y ago
There is a scam that I've heard of in India with these kind of dates though not as serious. You get a woman who is eager to meet up. You meet up and she takes you to an expensive place to eat and then a particular 'hotel' for after dinner. The 'hotel' charges a bit more than you'd expect but well you really want to go ahead by then. She gets a cut of the food and hotel charges.
- atahanacar 4y ago
  That sounds like just prostitution with extra steps. I wouldn't call it a scam if I understood what you mean correctly.
  - ptsneves 4y ago
    Prostitution would be an explicit transaction. What is described here is a scam.
- fennecfoxy 4y ago
  This happens in Japan a lot too, Chris Broad/AbroadInJapan did a video on it.
kyung_salt 4y ago
Tinder is mainly Men using it, so its girls catfishing guys?
blackpiller334 4y ago
[flagged]
blackpiller334 4y ago
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fennecfoxy 4y ago
Yup, same can happen to gay guys on gay dating/hookup apps. That's why I always meet in a public place, but even then you're still gambling. But tbh aren't we also gambling by leaving our houses? Sao Paulo afaik is famous for crime/kidnappings/all sorts of bad crap. The criminals are just using Tinder as a tool today, tomorrow they might use whatever else is popular/effective. When I was in Cyprus on business I got separated from my group who were walking ahead, we were in the strip/club district ofc bc most of 'em are straight. I wandered past a strip club to catch up with the group and this chick grabbed my arm super hard and tried to drag me into the club, told her I was gay & uninterested and her response was "that doesn't matter". Bouncer at the door was just laughing at me. Managed to get away, but if I was the one that had walked up and grabbed her arm nice & hard I would've been been put on the fucking ground.

320 points by laurex 4y ago

From the headline, I assumed that this was men kidnapping women. But it is actually men being baited by profiles of women an kidnapped or robbed. This is also quite common in Colombia. I heard a story of a Dutch guy who met a very eager woman from Tinder. She drugged his drink, and he ended up naked with no belongings at the bottom of a well. Somehow managed to escape alive.

goldfeld 4y ago
Yes, it seems the title is using "dates" only to attract eyeballs, even "matches" would be better here.
jfengel 4y ago
And it sounds like men in São Paulo need to start doing what women have been doing since the beginning of dating: always letting somebody know where they are, always meeting first in a public place, never taking a drink from anybody except a bartender. For men elsewhere, it's really good for them to know that women do this, and that this is why. You may know that you're not the man who does that, but they don't, and the consequences can be worse than losing your wallet. Practically every woman knows a woman who has been assaulted this way. Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time.
- LanceH 4y ago
  Comment about the victims being male. Response about how men can change their behavior for women.
  - sn0wf1re 4y ago
    The response is how to take basic steps to protect one's self. Steps that are already common among women. Basic safety steps are not victim blaming, for example, wearing bright clothing at night to reduce the chance of being injured by motor vehicle. It seems you are implying that the comment is victim blaming, or if I take your statement less charitably it is flame bait implying that the comment above would cause outrage if the genders were swapped.
    - LanceH 4y ago
      > Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time. All the points were valid, but when people talk about the invisibility of male victims...this is it.
      - saagarjha 4y ago
        This advice is literally exactly what every woman is told. It has nothing to do with male victims.
        chitowneats 4y ago
        The article is about overwhelmingly male victims. It's not always about you!
        ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 4y ago
        Saagar is a male forename, but yes, reducing kidnapping to "losing your wallet" in an attempt at whataboutery is a bit tasteless.
        chitowneats 4y ago
        You're right. I assumed the commenter was male. I'm just recalling how many times women in my life said that to me in response to me daring to bring up any male-centered concerns. Things like Me Too witch hunts of men later proven to be innocent.
  - elil17 4y ago
    Obviously no one should have to be so careful. We should aspire to have a society where all people are safe from crime. But this is the reality of the world right now, and it is helpful to suggest that men take a page from women's playbooks when it comes to personal safety.
  - jfengel 4y ago
    You're absolutely right. Just as we should be teaching boys not to assault women, we should be teaching girls not to drug and rob men. That doesn't seem to be as big a problem yet, but we should nip it in the bud before it spreads beyond São Paulo. Every parent should teach their daughters that robbing men is wrong. Just as every parent should be teaching their sons that raping women is wrong. There is no excuse. Whether he's wearing a Rolex, or she's wearing a miniskirt, that's their choice to make. It is not an invitation, and you are not entitled to anything. Rape is a crime, and robbery is a crime. We should prosecute both, and make sure our children get the message that it is unacceptable. I appreciate your reminder that the criminal, not the victim, is to blame. It's unfortunate that people do have to protect themselves, but I hadn't intended my advice to suggest that that's the only change we should make. We already have laws and must enforce them.
    - pelasaco 4y ago
      don't forget the every woman is a robber in potential /s
    - callmetom 4y ago
      [dead]
    - gowld 4y ago
      Oh, we forgot to tell criminals to not be criminal. What a silly overight.
      - jfengel 4y ago
        Unfortunately, this is a real problem for women. A lot of boys get the impression that women are "teasing" them and "deserve" to be assaulted. Every woman who files rape charges knows that she's going to have her sexual history questioned, and be asked what she was wearing, as if that made a difference to the legality. You wouldn't think that "No means no" is a lesson we'd have to teach, but not only do we have to, but a lot of people will push back on it. So I'm being a bit facetious in my reply, but I'm using the opportunity of the OP's self-pity to reiterate: this is a thing that women go through all the time.
  - majormajor 4y ago
    This advice is given all the damn time. You've never seen an article about how to be safe on blind dates or such? A quick google search turns up several. Is it that women's problems are invisible to you until men start having some of them?
  - asveikau 4y ago
    Does that bother you, sir? I can tell you that I'm not bothered by this at all.
- hcarvalhoalves 4y ago
  The reason this happens with men is what the article doesn't mention: most/all the victims are married men cheating on their partners. So, they arrange dates on empty or far away places, late night and don't communicate where they're going.
  - elzbardico 4y ago
    Just out of curiousity, where did you get this data from? could you share the link?
    - frozenlettuce 4y ago
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-27/why-brazilians-visit-love-motels https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-27/why-brazi... These love motels are usually in surrounding areas (as building codes restrict them being placed in central areas to avoid prostitution)
      - flebron 4y ago
        I don't see a link between that Bloomberg article and these kidnappings happening mostly to married men cheating. Nor is it the case that "love motels" are primarily used for cheating. We have plenty of those in Argentina. As the Bloomberg article indicates, they serve a social need because of the traditional multigenerational family homes people live in.
        iksub1 4y ago
        And hardly will find in other article due the fact that cheaters will lie to protect their identify if they ever come across a survey or interview. The "love motel" being used for cheating is a known thing across brazilians and still is not easy to find in writing. Also, BR motels are different from the Argentian ones (at least the ones that I saw in Buenos Aires).
        frozenlettuce 4y ago
        the list was to give some sort of reference to the statement "they arrange dates on empty or far away places, late night and don't communicate where they're going" posted above
- coldtea 4y ago
  >And it sounds like men in São Paulo need to start doing what women have been doing since the beginning of dating: always letting somebody know where they are, always meeting first in a public place Doesn't help when nobody knows or will find the attackers...
- kerpotgh 4y ago
  [dead]
- MandieD 4y ago
  "For men elsewhere, it's really good for them to know that women do this, and that this is why. You may know that you're not the man who does that, but they don't, and the consequences can be worse than losing your wallet. Practically every woman knows a woman who has been assaulted this way. Understanding that will help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time." This is solid. Guys, do not take it personally when a woman who doesn't know you extremely well is taking these kinds of safety measures. It's because either we've personally had a bad experience with someone who seemed like a decent guy, or have been told about a bad experience someone else had. We're not refusing the drink you thoughtfully brought us from the bar because we're picky; we're doing it because we have an acquaintance who woke up in someone else's bed, unplanned. Knowing what safety measures women normally take will help you avoid feeling slighted. It's not you, it's the bad behavior of enough of your fellow fellows, bad behavior you're unlikely to directly witness. If we didn't think you were a decent guy, we probably wouldn't be going out with you in the first place (or were too scared to say no).
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    Not sure why this is being downvoted. Used to be a bartender and there were several times I watched a woman get a drink and take a fake sip, and then wait until the gentlemen is away and ask for a different one. Like she was bought a rum and coke and then moseyed up to the bar and asked for a replacement one -- "I'm not sure I trust his drink" -- fair enough. We also had a sign in the ladies room: "ask a bartender / waiter / bouncer if their friend Trudy is doing okay, that means you or someone with you is being creeped on and are concerned for safety". Only had that chat 2-3 times, but it did happen.
- fennecfoxy 4y ago
  Nah, we just gotta man up.
dustingetz 4y ago
"thirst trap"
InCityDreams 4y ago
>I heard a story of a... Sauce?
- whymauri 4y ago
  Not the same story, but it's covered frequently in Colombian national and local news. Here is an example: https://ktla.com/news/local-news/a-cruel-and-senseless-crime-orange-county-man-killed-in-colombia-family-raising-money-to-bring-him-home/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/a-cruel-and-senseless-crime... The highest risk cities are Medellin (high expat population) and Cartagena (high tourist population). No matter how much I tell my friends not to use Tinder in Latin America, they still try and end up in close calls. One friend ended up in a 'Millionaire's Ride' extortioned to buy overpriced cocaine.
  - explaininjs 4y ago
    Going to Colombia in a week. Not planning on dating around, but do you have any other tips for staying safe as a solo traveller? Not trying to end up at the bottom of a well.
    - Mystery-Machine 4y ago
      On the contrary to Brazil and Mexico (for example) the good news in Colombia is that people fight back. They don't like crime and so, if they see someone being robbed, they assault the robber. So just stay in the populated areas and you'll be fine. In Mexico and Brazil people turn their heads around and you're on your own...
      - matheusmoreira 4y ago
        I have a video of a brazilian bystander deciding to mess up a crime in progress by kicking an armed teenager in the leg and knocking him down. Teenager got up and executed him in cold blood for the insult, then resumed whatever he was doing.
    - whymauri 4y ago
TechBro8615 4y ago
Remember, lads: if it's too good to be true, it probably is.
peteradio 4y ago
> ended up naked with no belongings at the bottom of a well At least he wasn't thirsty
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  That's how he ended up there in the first place
medellin 4y ago
I would wager it’s popular any place where you have a large number of tourists who think its easy to pick up local girls because they have more money than the locals.
whoiscroberts 4y ago
Ah, the old Cardi B con

expertentipp 4y ago

Male profiles have negative value for dating apps, so it's better for a man to ignore fishy profiles than to report them with any negative feedback and risk a nuclear ban. Can we shred the Match group into pieces, please?

xwdv 4y ago
Not true. If you are a paying member you are the only type of profile that matters.
- expertentipp 4y ago
  Not true. Paying account is quite obvious from the female perspective. Sooner you'll be a target for scammers and gold diggers, at best Instagram and OnlyFans influencers will reach out to you more aggressively.

mrkramer 4y ago

For example dating app can require background security check in order to register and use the app. Sounds like a good business idea. Somebody do it....I have other ideas that I work on.

sn0wf1re 4y ago
Wouldn't that just lead to a false sense of security? Surely the background check would not be 100% at preventing bad actors.
- danrocks 4y ago
  Worse: may lead to liability as well. "but Tinder said it was secure due to bg checks!"
  - gowld 4y ago
    You mean like they already do? https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/13/match-expands-tinders-free-background-checks-to-two-more-dating-apps/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/13/match-expands-tinders-free...
- mrkramer 4y ago
  I'm just throwing ideas around but I thought about it for some time; with background security checks you could create a dating app or shall I see dating environment for upper-class "elite" people to date, something like European aristocracy did back in the day. For example on top of checking their background for criminal past you could also check their ancestry, their monthly income, their wealth etc. or in another words their social status/class. I like to play video games and every time when I think about software ideas I tend to compare them to video games and dating apps remind me of Crusader Kings or something like that.
gowld 4y ago
They do. https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/13/match-expands-tinders-free-background-checks-to-two-more-dating-apps/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/13/match-expands-tinders-free...

thriftwy 4y ago

In St. Petersburg, Russia, there was reportedly a restaurant where a fake date would invite men and then quote them exorbitant sum (order of magnitude higher than expected) for food and drink. All the profits, none of the risks of criminal persecution. Russian has a slang word, dynamo, for the attractive women who date without romantic interest just to get dined & maybe some presents, and then bail out.

numbers_guy 4y ago
Apparently that is common in many tourist traps, not only in Russia.
- luckylion 4y ago
  I've seen it as "get into a seedy bar, have women chat you up and ask whether they can join you for a drink, get presented a huge bill", but women going on dating apps to get men to the bars is a different level. It makes sense obviously, digitalization doesn't stop at scams.
myth_drannon 4y ago
It's very common scam and not only in Russia. A woman splits the profits with the restaurant that charges the naive Western tourists 10x of normal bill(actually it can be without a woman trap involvment). The same can happen with a clothing store. Some guys can spend like $1000 on woman's clothes which she promptly returns and gets part of her share. Heck even on Greek islands, many clubs had attractive ladies on payrol to get the guys in and buy drinks.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  I don't believe they targeted foreign tourists specifically, rather than local dudes from Tinder.
  - gowld 4y ago
    Tourists are much easier marks for these scams. Locals know, have less money, and more local support.

honkler 4y ago

[flagged]

standardUser 4y ago
The General Social Survey found that "the portion of Americans 18 to 29 reporting no sex in the past year more than doubled between 2008 and 2018, to 23 percent." https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-ame...
- honkler 4y ago
  23% in 2018. It was about ~35% or so in 2022 IIRC. And then you have to also factor in that men tend to lie a bit on these surveys. Also factor in that it's only asking if they got laid in the past 1 year. Do it 6 months, and the figure shoots way up. IMHO, the time gap should be no more than a month or so. That would define real incels. 1 year is way too much.
  - skyyler 4y ago
    "Real incels are people that haven't had sex for a month" What do you mean by this?
    - honkler 4y ago
      That men who want sex, but cannot have it for a period of month should be counted as incels regardless of whether they think they are incels or not. People seek divorce if their spouse isn't having sex with them for a month. I am applying that same heuristic to inceldom.
      - standardUser 4y ago
        That's insane nonsense.

standardUser 4y ago

> “If I am 51 and she is 23, how can I not think I am being catfished for a possible robbery?” The man makes a fair point. Personally, I don't go on a date unless I am convinced this person and I have some things in common and would actually have a good time hanging out. If one party is worried, they can ask for a phone call/video chat or to exchange social media. I have a feeling many men are far less discerning and are simply "swiping right" on everyone and then engage with any of the resulting "matches" that give them the time of day.

expertentipp 4y ago
> I don't go on a date unless I am convinced this person and I have some things in common and would actually have a good time hanging out. If one party is worried, they can ask for a phone call/video chat or to exchange social media. In a balanced environment this would work. Dating, apartment rental, and job search markets notoriously aren't balanced environments. > men are far less discerning and are simply "swiping right" on everyone and then engage with any of the resulting "matches" that give them the time of day. This here is the reality. It doesn't matter what you want and feel.
gowld 4y ago
Why would every prostitute be a robber? If this is happening, it's a failure of law enforcement and sociery. I matched someone 1 year younger than me. I was catfished for a robbery -- she got my house, my money, and my kids.
InCityDreams 4y ago
>many men are far less discerning and are simply "swiping right" on everyone and then engage with any of the resulting "matches" Hey, customers - see how the app company is allowing you to be treated?
thomastjeffery 4y ago
Then your interest is romance. For many men, the intention of dating is sex. They are willing, if they must, to perform romance along the way; but that is a compromise, not a goal. The romance may become genuine in practice, but that still doesn't make it an explicit goal. This is the side-effect of a cultural narrative that pretends sex and romance to be one and the same.

kansface 4y ago

It seems like it would be trivially easy for the Police to set up stings.

standardUser 4y ago
Sure, and instead of wasting billions every year busting low-level drug dealers our governments could be going after spousal abusers and date-rapists and setting up stings for sexual assaults in high-crime areas. You know, crimes with actual victims. But preventing violence against women has always been among the lowest priorities for law enforcement. So naturally, sexual violence against men, which is far rarer, is even farther off the radar. But of course we gotta stop those pesky drugs users and small-time peddlers at any cost!
- deleted 4y ago
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- kansface 4y ago
  This is story about kidnappings and extortion, no? Thats actual crime with actual victims.
  - Eisenstein 4y ago
    Re-read what the person wrote; this time take from it that the writer is saying 'it isn't going to happen because law enforcement have their priorities misaligned.'
- fennecfoxy 4y ago
  Idk man recently there have been calls in the UK as to "what is the police/government doing to help with violence against women" But there has never been a call for me; the short guy targeted at bars/clubs because I'm an "easy" target. Male on male violence is the highest and it's just completely ignored for "boys will be boys". Men can read the aggression & will naturally cower/back off because we know we'll get hit, I've seen women at clubs being mouthy, pushy aggressive towards dudes bc they know their chance of being hit is so low. Not dismissing violence against women, just sad that even after some form of enlightenment where the police actually help women, I'll still be out here trying not to get into altercations with drunk assholes.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago

Out of all the dating apps Tinder has done the absolute bare minimum to ensure the safety of its members. The number of active fake profiles on there in large metropolitan areas is mind boggling. They've known this for years and done absolutely nothing to address it. I imagine it would affect the numbers significantly. I have completely given up on the app given the % of fake users who are there to take advantage of someone's loneliness.

coupdejarnac 4y ago
I'd wager that Match has contracted out the creation and maintenance of fake accounts.
- slaw 4y ago
  Match and Tinder are owned by the same company. It looks like only front-end is different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_Group
  - coupdejarnac 4y ago
    Yes. I figured everyone familiar with dating apps knows that Match owns Tinder.
technion 4y ago
I'm fairly convinced if tinder actually killed fake profiles it would go bankrupt. Not in terms of total user count, but in terms of female user count. It's already basically a meme to talk about the horrible m/f ratio. The number floating around of 20% female doesn't take into account the high population of "don't respond to messages here, if you're hot hmu on my OF" profiles, which is about one in four profiles here. But moreover the number of crypto scammers is extremely high. At one point I had like eight reading the same script to me on the same day. And tinder actually makes it so you can't report them, seemingly going out of its way to protect this revenue stream.
TrackerFF 4y ago

hugocbp 4y ago

Just a couple of notes: Pix is not an app but a platform (like INTERAC in Canada). It works with most banks and most people with bank account now have it. Not only that, it is not just a QR app. You can send money to any key, that can be: - An email - CPF (unique SIN / SSN number that in Brazil is not considered secret) - Telephone number - Randomly generated key The transactions are also, for the most part, instantaneous (think 1-2 seconds) and irreversible (as far as I know). Even if you only have in your phone apps for banks without a Pix key, it is trivial and fast to create one. Unfortunately the only way out of this is to never have on your phone a bank app (and they can even force you to download one on the spot if you are actually kidnapped). Also, from someone who was carjacked in the past in Brazil: this has always happened here. I think it is simply the delivery method that is changing. Unfortunately, ban those apps and the bad guys will just go back to randomly kidnapping / carjacking people on the streets of rich neighbourhoods like they did in the past.

InCityDreams 4y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 4y ago
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- potatototoo99 4y ago
  Jesus Christ.
- hugocbp 4y ago
  Just to be clear: not everyone on the streets of a rich neighbourhood is rich. This is just where they go to try to commit those crimes. Actually some of those bad guys get so frustrated when they end up snatching someone that is not rich that they often physically hurt them or worst. So your comment is very out of place.
- the-smug-one 4y ago
  You're on HN. You're probably rich relative to the would-be robbers in Brazil.

notjonheyman 4y ago

Best learn Jiu Jitsu, and pull guard when you're about to get robbed or kidnapped /s

expertentipp 4y ago
Does ju jutsu/whatever work against multiple attackers with knives?
- notjonheyman 4y ago
  You missed my sarcasm hence the /s Rule number one of Jiu Jitsu = run/avoid getting into a fight in the first place. It's actually bad with multiple attackers because most likely you'll end up getting stomped on by the others.

graderjs 4y ago

What is tinder doing about this to make us safer?

idk1 4y ago

Sort of anecdotal but I now know two people who have been mugged on Grindr in London, one person had their new iPhone taken, and the other one their PS5 from their home, I would stress this advice, always meet someone for a coffee first somewhere busy and public before going somewhere private.

distant_hat 4y ago

There is a scam that I've heard of in India with these kind of dates though not as serious. You get a woman who is eager to meet up. You meet up and she takes you to an expensive place to eat and then a particular 'hotel' for after dinner. The 'hotel' charges a bit more than you'd expect but well you really want to go ahead by then. She gets a cut of the food and hotel charges.

atahanacar 4y ago
That sounds like just prostitution with extra steps. I wouldn't call it a scam if I understood what you mean correctly.
- ptsneves 4y ago
  Prostitution would be an explicit transaction. What is described here is a scam.
fennecfoxy 4y ago
This happens in Japan a lot too, Chris Broad/AbroadInJapan did a video on it.

kyung_salt 4y ago

Tinder is mainly Men using it, so its girls catfishing guys?

blackpiller334 4y ago

[flagged]

blackpiller334 4y ago

[flagged]

fennecfoxy 4y ago

Yup, same can happen to gay guys on gay dating/hookup apps. That's why I always meet in a public place, but even then you're still gambling. But tbh aren't we also gambling by leaving our houses? Sao Paulo afaik is famous for crime/kidnappings/all sorts of bad crap. The criminals are just using Tinder as a tool today, tomorrow they might use whatever else is popular/effective. When I was in Cyprus on business I got separated from my group who were walking ahead, we were in the strip/club district ofc bc most of 'em are straight. I wandered past a strip club to catch up with the group and this chick grabbed my arm super hard and tried to drag me into the club, told her I was gay & uninterested and her response was "that doesn't matter". Bouncer at the door was just laughing at me. Managed to get away, but if I was the one that had walked up and grabbed her arm nice & hard I would've been been put on the fucking ground.