17 ms·

A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

200 points by georgecmu 4y ago

Overtonwindow 4y ago
https://archive.is/KbNVN https://archive.is/KbNVN
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
diceduckmonk 4y ago
The article uses the term pacer and rabbit but never really explained what function exactly this type of runner performed for the race organizers. They only alluded to this when mentioning other runners depending on the pacer. A little confused who the intended reader for this article is. I had to follow up with a Wikipedia search where just the usage of the term “pacemaker” or “pacesetter” made things more clear.
- NoPicklez 4y ago
  So you did a Wikipedia search for it, then came back to write a comment about it, whilst also not explaining it either?
  - dfcab 4y ago
    Here you go: “A marathon or half marathon pacer is a volunteer runner that runs a race at a specific pace for a target finish time. Pacers are usually veteran runners that have racing and pacing strategies they have mastered which they utilize during the course of the race. Pacers wear some type of signage/object such as a sign, balloon, or shirt identifying their target finish time.” Link: https://halfmarathonforbeginners.com/what-is-a-pacer-in-running/ https://halfmarathonforbeginners.com/what-is-a-pacer-in-runn...
  - hdctambien 4y ago
    It is easier to run behind someone and match their pace than it is to lead a race. It is also easier to run faster for shorter distances. A rabbit is someone that runs a fast pace for less than the full race distance so the real racers can be pulled through the early miles and save energy for their push to the finish. Races want runners to run fast times, because that makes them prestigious. Runners want to run fast times, for obvious reasons. So races provide rabbits which lures fast runners to those races.
  - diceduckmonk 4y ago
    I’m not ChatGPT, but here is the Wikipedia article that may be of interest. Wikipedia describes “Pacemakers serve the role of conveying tangible information about pacing on the track during a race” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacemaker_(running) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacemaker_(running)
- tekla 4y ago
  "Pacer" is a common word used to describe many activities that are time limited. It takes the common noun "pace" and a average English speaker )or really even a non native speaker) could figure out "pacer" means "to keep pace".
  - diceduckmonk 4y ago
    For someone who does not run marathons, I’d ask why a human would be necessary? People could use smartwatches, or there could be waypoint signs. This is a domain specific thing. Without Googling, did you know what a patternmaker is?
    - hanniabu 4y ago
      Showing a timer or splits is not pacing
      - diceduckmonk 4y ago
        If the watch also measured the distance you’ve travel, is pace not just distance over time? Speaking of wearable, pacemakers serve a different purpose, so the term is ambiguous I’m sure you run then, because again I have no idea what you mean by “splits”
        infamousclyde 4y ago
        Splits refers to the amount of time passed over a measured distance. A miler would be interested in their 400m split (the time they run through 1/4 of their race), and a marathoner would be more concerned with their mile/km split. Holistically, pacers are just experienced runners that provide even splits over their distance. In a marathon context, running in a group can be quite pleasant and motivating, but there is definitely nothing stopping anyone from just using a GPS watch.
        mattkrause 4y ago
        Yes and no. In theory, you can pace yourself with a watch and a map. “Splits” are (distance, time) pairs that correspond to a targeted finish time. For example, if you were targeting a 4:00 finish at an even pace, you’d want to be crossing the halfway point at 2:00. In practice, it’s mentally much easier to pace yourself off another person. The implicit peer pressure to stay with the pack helps when you might otherwise start to lag behind and helps you resist the temptation to blow up your plan because “you’re feeling good” and want to go for broke.
- SamBam 4y ago
  What confused me initially was who was paying him. I went into the article assuming he was pacing for a specific runner or team -- a bit like the teammate cyclist who is tasked with being in front so other cyclists can draft behind him the the Tour de France. So even though the article did mention a race organizer approaching him, I missed that. Do the race organizers request a specific pace knowing what they know about the competitors? Do they ask for input from the various coaches before the meet? Or does he just always run the exact same pace and other racers pace themselves faster or slower just in comparison to him?
  - tantalor 4y ago
    From the article, > Meet directors pay him
    - SamBam 4y ago
      Right, I was saying I somehow missed that because it wasn't a salient part of the article, and also (more importantly, probably) I read the first half assuming something else, so my brain probably skipped over something that didn't confirm my belief.
  - nl 4y ago
    Usually the race organizers pay well-known runners to appear, and may put incentives (dollars) for given times. Based on these incentives and discussions with the runners (and coaches) the pace the pacesetters run is set.
caminante 4y ago
This service is a "PED" for elite runners. Kipchoge broke the marathon WR with a team of fresh runners to draft off of.[0] [0] https://www.colorado.edu/today/2022/10/06/drafting-can-save-minutes-marathoners-times-make-official-sub-2-possible https://www.colorado.edu/today/2022/10/06/drafting-can-save-...
- llimllib 4y ago
  That run isn’t and never has been considered the marathon WR for that and other reasons
  - wging 4y ago
    It's important to distinguish between the Breaking2/INEOS pacing (with a rotating team of pacemakers that drop in and out of the race) and the pacing that has been allowed in every world record (pacemakers that start with the field, but may drop out, as does Sowinski in his own pacing). In fact Kipchoge's legal world record (the 2:01:09, not the 1:59) had pacemakers for the first 25km (of 42.2).
  - quchen 4y ago
    What are the other reasons? I'm not familiar with running, I assumed it was the rotating team.
    - michaelt 4y ago
      [1] says that as well as the 41 rotating pacemakers, there's the lack of open competition and the delivery of water by bicycle. Guinness recognises it as "Fastest marathon distance (male)" and "First marathon distance under two hours" despite these factors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ineos_1:59_Challenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ineos_1:59_Challenge
    - caminante 4y ago
      The parent above is "gatekeeping" by saying that even though the runner ran the fastest marathon, it wasn't an IAAF-qualified marathon. Kipchoge currently has the WR for both. The whole controversy for the "fastest marathon" is they kept cycling fresh/new runners during the run for Kipchoge to draft off of and conserve energy. These pacers (like the aforementioned runner in the HN article) provide an aerodynamic boost.
752963e64 4y ago
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metadat 4y ago
It does seem kind of cheap to rely on a pacer, I can see how purists lament it as "not real racing". It eliminates an entire dimension from the competition: managing oneself and being aware / humble enough to not push unsustainably hard at the start only to run out of juice later on. Using a pacer essentially reduces the race to an artless treadmill grind. As an observer, the paced portion of the race is stupidly boring. The entrants don't make interesting moves at all for the paced duration, it's as though the race hasn't actually begun until into the third lap in a 1-mile race (only 4 laps total). Example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lqa36sQhmg&t=111 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lqa36sQhmg&t=111 (thanks to @m348e912 for the link) Edit: @infamousclyde: Thank you for sharing some of the upsides. Valid point even if still boring for viewers.
- hdctambien 4y ago
  That was Steve Prefontaine's opinion, too. And it got him 4th in the Olympics. Pacer or not, you still have to run the run and that's not nothing.
  - metadat 4y ago
    It says in the article pacers are not permitted in the Olympics.
    - tekla 4y ago
      The Olympics doesn't allow professionals anyway, so the comparison becomes weird.
      - freddie_mercury 4y ago
        The Olympics has allowed professional athletes since 1986.
        tekla 4y ago
        I stand corrected.
m348e912 4y ago
Here is the race the article references: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lqa36sQhmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lqa36sQhmg BTW it's career suicide for a rabbit to keep running and try to win the race
- somsak2 4y ago
  Why?
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    presumably if your "career" is to help other runners get better times, and you beat them, you're fired, your career as a rabbit is over. But of course, your career as a runner is just starting!
    - Leherenn 4y ago
      It might also be about recovery. Running a full is tiring and they might be expected to run another race soon.
  - jcrites 4y ago
    (An inference based on context. I don’t know anything about this activity.) Because they’re not actually running the race; they’re staff for the event paid to run part of it at a set pace. “Finishing”, especially in a top spot, would take the spotlight away from the actual winning participants. It would be inappropriate for non-competing event staff to take away the spotlight from the competitors. It would be equally bad if one of the motorcycle cameramen did anything but what they were paid to do, and tried to get personal attention. “Rabbits” who run part of the race are not finishing, just like the motorcycle cameramen are not finishing (despite the fact that both might be there at the end).
    - darth_avocado 4y ago
      Marathon pacers could be event staff, but could also be private for a runner if it’s one of the elite marathons that make you a lot of money.
every 4y ago
I rabbited in high school. We had an excellent state-level miler who could run all day but had zero finishing kick. My job was to set as fast a pace as I could for as long as I could to wear the opposing strong finishers down. I was usually good for a lap and a half or so. Not bad for a broad jumper...
andai 4y ago
So... is he just really good at running at a specific speed, or what? I don't get it.
- dgnorton 4y ago
  He’s good at running the pace they ask him to run and it varies from race to race. Harder than it sounds. Ideally, the pacer runs that pace with little variance rather than looking at their watch halfway through a lap and speeding up or slowing down.
- gabereiser 4y ago
  A consistent speed, yes. It’s actually really hard to do.
infamousclyde 4y ago
My partner regularly picks up pacing duties. It's pretty common for professional runners, and they receive some modest compensation depending on the size of the meet. Pretty trivial for a 1500 or 3k specialist to pace a 10k, for example. She's knocked out an 8:46 3k and is quite literally a human metronome, so it's a good go for her. Making sure your splits are even requires a lot of practice, however, and accelerating or slowing down is an unpleasant experience for the rest of the race participants.
gabereiser 4y ago
I went to school with Alan Webb [1]. We were all essentially rabbits to him. I’ve never seen someone run so fast, for so long of a distance, in such a short time. He went on to have an amazing career, obviously. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Webb_(runner) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Webb_(runner)
- nl 4y ago
  Oh wow that would be amazing. Did you actually run with him?
  - gabereiser 4y ago
    Yes, well no, I ran the mile in gym class like we all did. He was in my gym class and would be finished before I completed my first lap…
ck2 4y ago
There is also a six percent power savings drafting the pacer in running. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35834628/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35834628/ That translates to a 3-6 minute benefit in a marathon.
- thrdbndndn 4y ago
  Not sure if you can directly translate like that. It's not like when people finish a marathon they used all their energies. And their "output rate" per time (or per mile) may be limited by other factors.
  - francisofascii 4y ago
    The NIH paper indicated that optimal drafting will save between 3 min 42 s and 5 min 29 s of time for a 2 hour marathon pace. Just to clarify it wasn't the OP that ran that calculation.
js2 4y ago
In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not flat, I actually try to run even effort, and explain that is the plan to the runners I'm pacing. So we slow down on the uphills and speed up a bit on the downhills. Yes, runners can use a variety of electronic devices (GPS watches, heart rate monitors, accelerometers on your shoe) to try to set their own pace but none of these are perfect. They also require constant attention. And they don't provide moral support. Even though I'm a fairly experienced runner (25+ marathons), I'll join a pace group myself when running a new course sometimes. A marathon can be mentally exhausting and it's sort of like being able to run on cruise control if you can just fall in next to someone else and rely on them to set pace. Running in a pack is also just easier, not even considering the wind breaking potential depending upon speed and prevailing breeze. On the 100 mile races, runners may have been on their feet for 12+ hours by the midway point and are starting to run into the night. Pacing those runners is really just about moral support and encouragement. Typically they are allowed to pickup a pacer after the 50 mile mark and I'll keep a single runner company for say a 12.5 mile lap and then they can switch to another fresh pacer. So they may get the company of 3-4 pacers in the second half of the race. Another example is that large marathons have guide runners to help those who need assistance. Visually impaired runners. Maybe runners with prosthetics who are concerned about being tripped. Etc. I've never been a guide runner but I'd like to some day. Pacing the 1:50 group in a half marathon: https://i.ibb.co/4gRTjjT/FCC9720-D-4-E4-E-4-F74-91-EF-2-FCB2-F82-D746.jpg https://i.ibb.co/4gRTjjT/FCC9720-D-4-E4-E-4-F74-91-EF-2-FCB2...
- _tik_ 4y ago
  As a amateur runner. I want to thank you for your service.
- wging 4y ago
  > Running in a pack is also just easier, not even considering the wind breaking potential depending upon speed and prevailing breeze. It is worth noting that for mid-d races it's not just about countering wind, but also air resistance. There is a significant performance impact even if it's not windy. See for instance https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20823445/does-drafting-help-in-running https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20823445/does-draftin...: "Pugh runs some calculations to determine that at 4:30 mile pace, drafting one meter behind another runner on a still day saves about 80% of the energy you'd otherwise spend fighting air resistance. That corresponds to about 1 second per 400 meters at that pace, and more on windy days." (Highly recommend Hutchinson's other work on the running and sports science, btw.) (I am sure you know this. I'm mentioning it for others, because it's applicable to Sowinski's work, far more so than your own pacing for the longer races.)
abalashov 4y ago
As a [semi-serious] road cyclist and occasional racer, this reminds me of the duty of "domestiques" on cycling teams. It's probably more obvious to this crowd than to the general population, but I'll say: because most of a cyclist's energy is spent fighting air resistance, (road) cycling as a sport is almost entirely about drag management and drafting other cyclists. That's also what makes it a team sport. Riding right behind someone ("on their wheel") in the right circumstances can save ~25-40% energy, and riding in the middle of a well-developed pack can save quite a lot more. This is very back-of-napkin, in the real world of course varies with many factors: because drag is a square of velocity, this is exceedingly relevant on fast and flat courses but almost totally unimportant at the low speeds of climbs, and of course wind direction influences the outcome greatly, etc. But this is why you see pros riding within inches of each other's wheels. Whether you're trying to stay with foes or are being carried along by friends, you're trying to save energy and avoid being out in the wind. What you see when you watch your local criterium, or the Tour de France, is teams trying to shield their sprinter from the wind to conserve energy ("save their legs for the sprint"). There are lots of things one can do along the way, from sabotaging other teams' efforts to do the same, to breakaways, etc. But that's the basic idea. Your local group ride of experienced folks isn't too different; they'll generally run "pacelines" and rotate on/off the front, taking turns sharing the workload of pile-driving into the wind ("pulling"), and move everyone along much faster as a result. It's a skill, but when you learn to do it well and have the choreography down, you can ride your bike silly fast. Technique matters at least as much as power. 90% of the people in the TdF are unsung heroes, aren't there to win. It's only natural to assume that the people on the front are winning the race, but, in view of the energy budget in the above theory, they're not. Outside of the last 200 metres or so, anyone on the front of the pack is definitely not winning, and would never win that way. They're working hard for someone else. And for most of them, that's their career right there.
- dharmab 4y ago
  I was once motorcycle touring in the Wyoming/Utah/Colorado area with a friend who was riding an old, carbureted Suzuki dual sport that struggled with power at altitude. We found we could significantly increase its top speed and fuel range by drafting it off the "bubble" created by my bike's panniers. Inside the bubble was like the eye of a storm.
Neil44 4y ago
They sometimes have pacers at our local parkrun with little flags for 25 mins, 30 mins etc. It's nice to be able to see how you're doing without looking at your watch all the time because judging by how knackered you feel is usually way out!
chengiz 4y ago
Clickbait title. I thought it would be some mystery. He's just a pacer.
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  Weird phrased title too! Leads every pack implies a multitemporal context, is then followed by “and then vanishes” which can only happen once.
gadders 4y ago
Slightly offtopic - I saw this guy try and run Kipchogi's 2 hour marathon pace on a treadmill. Madness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX5riy60oXk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX5riy60oXk How is that not sprinting? :-)
myself248 4y ago
A funny headline, given that I was just reading up on the history of the "Black Ghost", a nickname given by other racers to a muscle-car which would dominate Detroit street races in the 70s, but never hung around to socialize. The car would just show up, win, and disappear, sometimes for weeks or months, before surfacing again to win, and again to vanish. Nobody knew the driver, nobody could get a look at him, and he was trying very hard to keep it that way. This blew my mind, as I'd heard about this car in the 90s from a car-nut uncle, during the time when nobody knew the story, just that the car had stopped showing up in the mid-70s and nobody had ever seen it again. Only in 2014 did the owner reveal his secret. Ultimately his reason for laying low is much more lurid than simply being a pacer like today's clickbait headline. (Ur jnf n pbc ol qnl, fgerrg-enpre ol avtug.) https://www.dodgegarage.com/news/article/owners-clubs/2022/12/a-look-at-the-black-ghost-dodge-challenger-and-the-man-behind-the-wheel.html https://www.dodgegarage.com/news/article/owners-clubs/2022/1...
- axlee 4y ago
  rot13 for the curious
  - bravetraveler 4y ago
    "He was a cop by day, street-racer by night." For the curious and lazy
    - rolenthedeep 4y ago
      Thank you, I was indeed far too lazy to look this up
      - bravetraveler 4y ago
        My frustration with sharing the rot13 note but not a translation helped me overcome the laziness; so now many benefit! Honestly, I'm not sure why it was there to start with. Oh boy, the guy that drives a car for a living happens to enjoy cars
- 4y ago
urbandw311er 4y ago
Curious what happens if somebody tries to overtake the pacer?

200 points by georgecmu 4y ago

Overtonwindow 4y ago

https://archive.is/KbNVN https://archive.is/KbNVN

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

diceduckmonk 4y ago

The article uses the term pacer and rabbit but never really explained what function exactly this type of runner performed for the race organizers. They only alluded to this when mentioning other runners depending on the pacer. A little confused who the intended reader for this article is. I had to follow up with a Wikipedia search where just the usage of the term “pacemaker” or “pacesetter” made things more clear.

NoPicklez 4y ago
So you did a Wikipedia search for it, then came back to write a comment about it, whilst also not explaining it either?
- dfcab 4y ago
  Here you go: “A marathon or half marathon pacer is a volunteer runner that runs a race at a specific pace for a target finish time. Pacers are usually veteran runners that have racing and pacing strategies they have mastered which they utilize during the course of the race. Pacers wear some type of signage/object such as a sign, balloon, or shirt identifying their target finish time.” Link: https://halfmarathonforbeginners.com/what-is-a-pacer-in-running/ https://halfmarathonforbeginners.com/what-is-a-pacer-in-runn...
- hdctambien 4y ago
  It is easier to run behind someone and match their pace than it is to lead a race. It is also easier to run faster for shorter distances. A rabbit is someone that runs a fast pace for less than the full race distance so the real racers can be pulled through the early miles and save energy for their push to the finish. Races want runners to run fast times, because that makes them prestigious. Runners want to run fast times, for obvious reasons. So races provide rabbits which lures fast runners to those races.
- diceduckmonk 4y ago
  I’m not ChatGPT, but here is the Wikipedia article that may be of interest. Wikipedia describes “Pacemakers serve the role of conveying tangible information about pacing on the track during a race” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacemaker_(running) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacemaker_(running)
tekla 4y ago
"Pacer" is a common word used to describe many activities that are time limited. It takes the common noun "pace" and a average English speaker )or really even a non native speaker) could figure out "pacer" means "to keep pace".
- diceduckmonk 4y ago
  For someone who does not run marathons, I’d ask why a human would be necessary? People could use smartwatches, or there could be waypoint signs. This is a domain specific thing. Without Googling, did you know what a patternmaker is?
  - hanniabu 4y ago
    Showing a timer or splits is not pacing
    - diceduckmonk 4y ago
      If the watch also measured the distance you’ve travel, is pace not just distance over time? Speaking of wearable, pacemakers serve a different purpose, so the term is ambiguous I’m sure you run then, because again I have no idea what you mean by “splits”
      - infamousclyde 4y ago
        Splits refers to the amount of time passed over a measured distance. A miler would be interested in their 400m split (the time they run through 1/4 of their race), and a marathoner would be more concerned with their mile/km split. Holistically, pacers are just experienced runners that provide even splits over their distance. In a marathon context, running in a group can be quite pleasant and motivating, but there is definitely nothing stopping anyone from just using a GPS watch.
      - mattkrause 4y ago
        Yes and no. In theory, you can pace yourself with a watch and a map. “Splits” are (distance, time) pairs that correspond to a targeted finish time. For example, if you were targeting a 4:00 finish at an even pace, you’d want to be crossing the halfway point at 2:00. In practice, it’s mentally much easier to pace yourself off another person. The implicit peer pressure to stay with the pack helps when you might otherwise start to lag behind and helps you resist the temptation to blow up your plan because “you’re feeling good” and want to go for broke.
SamBam 4y ago
What confused me initially was who was paying him. I went into the article assuming he was pacing for a specific runner or team -- a bit like the teammate cyclist who is tasked with being in front so other cyclists can draft behind him the the Tour de France. So even though the article did mention a race organizer approaching him, I missed that. Do the race organizers request a specific pace knowing what they know about the competitors? Do they ask for input from the various coaches before the meet? Or does he just always run the exact same pace and other racers pace themselves faster or slower just in comparison to him?
- tantalor 4y ago
  From the article, > Meet directors pay him
  - SamBam 4y ago
    Right, I was saying I somehow missed that because it wasn't a salient part of the article, and also (more importantly, probably) I read the first half assuming something else, so my brain probably skipped over something that didn't confirm my belief.
- nl 4y ago
  Usually the race organizers pay well-known runners to appear, and may put incentives (dollars) for given times. Based on these incentives and discussions with the runners (and coaches) the pace the pacesetters run is set.

caminante 4y ago

This service is a "PED" for elite runners. Kipchoge broke the marathon WR with a team of fresh runners to draft off of.[0] [0] https://www.colorado.edu/today/2022/10/06/drafting-can-save-minutes-marathoners-times-make-official-sub-2-possible https://www.colorado.edu/today/2022/10/06/drafting-can-save-...

llimllib 4y ago
That run isn’t and never has been considered the marathon WR for that and other reasons
- wging 4y ago
  It's important to distinguish between the Breaking2/INEOS pacing (with a rotating team of pacemakers that drop in and out of the race) and the pacing that has been allowed in every world record (pacemakers that start with the field, but may drop out, as does Sowinski in his own pacing). In fact Kipchoge's legal world record (the 2:01:09, not the 1:59) had pacemakers for the first 25km (of 42.2).
- quchen 4y ago
  What are the other reasons? I'm not familiar with running, I assumed it was the rotating team.
  - michaelt 4y ago
    [1] says that as well as the 41 rotating pacemakers, there's the lack of open competition and the delivery of water by bicycle. Guinness recognises it as "Fastest marathon distance (male)" and "First marathon distance under two hours" despite these factors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ineos_1:59_Challenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ineos_1:59_Challenge
  - caminante 4y ago
    The parent above is "gatekeeping" by saying that even though the runner ran the fastest marathon, it wasn't an IAAF-qualified marathon. Kipchoge currently has the WR for both. The whole controversy for the "fastest marathon" is they kept cycling fresh/new runners during the run for Kipchoge to draft off of and conserve energy. These pacers (like the aforementioned runner in the HN article) provide an aerodynamic boost.

752963e64 4y ago

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metadat 4y ago

It does seem kind of cheap to rely on a pacer, I can see how purists lament it as "not real racing". It eliminates an entire dimension from the competition: managing oneself and being aware / humble enough to not push unsustainably hard at the start only to run out of juice later on. Using a pacer essentially reduces the race to an artless treadmill grind. As an observer, the paced portion of the race is stupidly boring. The entrants don't make interesting moves at all for the paced duration, it's as though the race hasn't actually begun until into the third lap in a 1-mile race (only 4 laps total). Example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lqa36sQhmg&t=111 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lqa36sQhmg&t=111 (thanks to @m348e912 for the link) Edit: @infamousclyde: Thank you for sharing some of the upsides. Valid point even if still boring for viewers.

hdctambien 4y ago
That was Steve Prefontaine's opinion, too. And it got him 4th in the Olympics. Pacer or not, you still have to run the run and that's not nothing.
- metadat 4y ago
  It says in the article pacers are not permitted in the Olympics.
  - tekla 4y ago
    The Olympics doesn't allow professionals anyway, so the comparison becomes weird.
    - freddie_mercury 4y ago
      The Olympics has allowed professional athletes since 1986.
      - tekla 4y ago
        I stand corrected.

m348e912 4y ago

Here is the race the article references: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lqa36sQhmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lqa36sQhmg BTW it's career suicide for a rabbit to keep running and try to win the race

somsak2 4y ago
Why?
- fsckboy 4y ago
  presumably if your "career" is to help other runners get better times, and you beat them, you're fired, your career as a rabbit is over. But of course, your career as a runner is just starting!
  - Leherenn 4y ago
    It might also be about recovery. Running a full is tiring and they might be expected to run another race soon.
- jcrites 4y ago
  (An inference based on context. I don’t know anything about this activity.) Because they’re not actually running the race; they’re staff for the event paid to run part of it at a set pace. “Finishing”, especially in a top spot, would take the spotlight away from the actual winning participants. It would be inappropriate for non-competing event staff to take away the spotlight from the competitors. It would be equally bad if one of the motorcycle cameramen did anything but what they were paid to do, and tried to get personal attention. “Rabbits” who run part of the race are not finishing, just like the motorcycle cameramen are not finishing (despite the fact that both might be there at the end).
  - darth_avocado 4y ago
    Marathon pacers could be event staff, but could also be private for a runner if it’s one of the elite marathons that make you a lot of money.

every 4y ago

I rabbited in high school. We had an excellent state-level miler who could run all day but had zero finishing kick. My job was to set as fast a pace as I could for as long as I could to wear the opposing strong finishers down. I was usually good for a lap and a half or so. Not bad for a broad jumper...

andai 4y ago

So... is he just really good at running at a specific speed, or what? I don't get it.

dgnorton 4y ago
He’s good at running the pace they ask him to run and it varies from race to race. Harder than it sounds. Ideally, the pacer runs that pace with little variance rather than looking at their watch halfway through a lap and speeding up or slowing down.
gabereiser 4y ago
A consistent speed, yes. It’s actually really hard to do.

infamousclyde 4y ago

My partner regularly picks up pacing duties. It's pretty common for professional runners, and they receive some modest compensation depending on the size of the meet. Pretty trivial for a 1500 or 3k specialist to pace a 10k, for example. She's knocked out an 8:46 3k and is quite literally a human metronome, so it's a good go for her. Making sure your splits are even requires a lot of practice, however, and accelerating or slowing down is an unpleasant experience for the rest of the race participants.

gabereiser 4y ago

I went to school with Alan Webb [1]. We were all essentially rabbits to him. I’ve never seen someone run so fast, for so long of a distance, in such a short time. He went on to have an amazing career, obviously. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Webb_(runner) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Webb_(runner)

nl 4y ago
Oh wow that would be amazing. Did you actually run with him?
- gabereiser 4y ago
  Yes, well no, I ran the mile in gym class like we all did. He was in my gym class and would be finished before I completed my first lap…

ck2 4y ago

There is also a six percent power savings drafting the pacer in running. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35834628/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35834628/ That translates to a 3-6 minute benefit in a marathon.

thrdbndndn 4y ago
Not sure if you can directly translate like that. It's not like when people finish a marathon they used all their energies. And their "output rate" per time (or per mile) may be limited by other factors.
- francisofascii 4y ago
  The NIH paper indicated that optimal drafting will save between 3 min 42 s and 5 min 29 s of time for a 2 hour marathon pace. Just to clarify it wasn't the OP that ran that calculation.

js2 4y ago

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not flat, I actually try to run even effort, and explain that is the plan to the runners I'm pacing. So we slow down on the uphills and speed up a bit on the downhills. Yes, runners can use a variety of electronic devices (GPS watches, heart rate monitors, accelerometers on your shoe) to try to set their own pace but none of these are perfect. They also require constant attention. And they don't provide moral support. Even though I'm a fairly experienced runner (25+ marathons), I'll join a pace group myself when running a new course sometimes. A marathon can be mentally exhausting and it's sort of like being able to run on cruise control if you can just fall in next to someone else and rely on them to set pace. Running in a pack is also just easier, not even considering the wind breaking potential depending upon speed and prevailing breeze. On the 100 mile races, runners may have been on their feet for 12+ hours by the midway point and are starting to run into the night. Pacing those runners is really just about moral support and encouragement. Typically they are allowed to pickup a pacer after the 50 mile mark and I'll keep a single runner company for say a 12.5 mile lap and then they can switch to another fresh pacer. So they may get the company of 3-4 pacers in the second half of the race. Another example is that large marathons have guide runners to help those who need assistance. Visually impaired runners. Maybe runners with prosthetics who are concerned about being tripped. Etc. I've never been a guide runner but I'd like to some day. Pacing the 1:50 group in a half marathon: https://i.ibb.co/4gRTjjT/FCC9720-D-4-E4-E-4-F74-91-EF-2-FCB2-F82-D746.jpg https://i.ibb.co/4gRTjjT/FCC9720-D-4-E4-E-4-F74-91-EF-2-FCB2...

_tik_ 4y ago
As a amateur runner. I want to thank you for your service.
wging 4y ago
> Running in a pack is also just easier, not even considering the wind breaking potential depending upon speed and prevailing breeze. It is worth noting that for mid-d races it's not just about countering wind, but also air resistance. There is a significant performance impact even if it's not windy. See for instance https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20823445/does-drafting-help-in-running https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20823445/does-draftin...: "Pugh runs some calculations to determine that at 4:30 mile pace, drafting one meter behind another runner on a still day saves about 80% of the energy you'd otherwise spend fighting air resistance. That corresponds to about 1 second per 400 meters at that pace, and more on windy days." (Highly recommend Hutchinson's other work on the running and sports science, btw.) (I am sure you know this. I'm mentioning it for others, because it's applicable to Sowinski's work, far more so than your own pacing for the longer races.)

abalashov 4y ago

As a [semi-serious] road cyclist and occasional racer, this reminds me of the duty of "domestiques" on cycling teams. It's probably more obvious to this crowd than to the general population, but I'll say: because most of a cyclist's energy is spent fighting air resistance, (road) cycling as a sport is almost entirely about drag management and drafting other cyclists. That's also what makes it a team sport. Riding right behind someone ("on their wheel") in the right circumstances can save ~25-40% energy, and riding in the middle of a well-developed pack can save quite a lot more. This is very back-of-napkin, in the real world of course varies with many factors: because drag is a square of velocity, this is exceedingly relevant on fast and flat courses but almost totally unimportant at the low speeds of climbs, and of course wind direction influences the outcome greatly, etc. But this is why you see pros riding within inches of each other's wheels. Whether you're trying to stay with foes or are being carried along by friends, you're trying to save energy and avoid being out in the wind. What you see when you watch your local criterium, or the Tour de France, is teams trying to shield their sprinter from the wind to conserve energy ("save their legs for the sprint"). There are lots of things one can do along the way, from sabotaging other teams' efforts to do the same, to breakaways, etc. But that's the basic idea. Your local group ride of experienced folks isn't too different; they'll generally run "pacelines" and rotate on/off the front, taking turns sharing the workload of pile-driving into the wind ("pulling"), and move everyone along much faster as a result. It's a skill, but when you learn to do it well and have the choreography down, you can ride your bike silly fast. Technique matters at least as much as power. 90% of the people in the TdF are unsung heroes, aren't there to win. It's only natural to assume that the people on the front are winning the race, but, in view of the energy budget in the above theory, they're not. Outside of the last 200 metres or so, anyone on the front of the pack is definitely not winning, and would never win that way. They're working hard for someone else. And for most of them, that's their career right there.

dharmab 4y ago
I was once motorcycle touring in the Wyoming/Utah/Colorado area with a friend who was riding an old, carbureted Suzuki dual sport that struggled with power at altitude. We found we could significantly increase its top speed and fuel range by drafting it off the "bubble" created by my bike's panniers. Inside the bubble was like the eye of a storm.

Neil44 4y ago

They sometimes have pacers at our local parkrun with little flags for 25 mins, 30 mins etc. It's nice to be able to see how you're doing without looking at your watch all the time because judging by how knackered you feel is usually way out!

chengiz 4y ago

Clickbait title. I thought it would be some mystery. He's just a pacer.

quickthrower2 4y ago
Weird phrased title too! Leads every pack implies a multitemporal context, is then followed by “and then vanishes” which can only happen once.

gadders 4y ago

Slightly offtopic - I saw this guy try and run Kipchogi's 2 hour marathon pace on a treadmill. Madness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX5riy60oXk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX5riy60oXk How is that not sprinting? :-)

myself248 4y ago

A funny headline, given that I was just reading up on the history of the "Black Ghost", a nickname given by other racers to a muscle-car which would dominate Detroit street races in the 70s, but never hung around to socialize. The car would just show up, win, and disappear, sometimes for weeks or months, before surfacing again to win, and again to vanish. Nobody knew the driver, nobody could get a look at him, and he was trying very hard to keep it that way. This blew my mind, as I'd heard about this car in the 90s from a car-nut uncle, during the time when nobody knew the story, just that the car had stopped showing up in the mid-70s and nobody had ever seen it again. Only in 2014 did the owner reveal his secret. Ultimately his reason for laying low is much more lurid than simply being a pacer like today's clickbait headline. (Ur jnf n pbc ol qnl, fgerrg-enpre ol avtug.) https://www.dodgegarage.com/news/article/owners-clubs/2022/12/a-look-at-the-black-ghost-dodge-challenger-and-the-man-behind-the-wheel.html https://www.dodgegarage.com/news/article/owners-clubs/2022/1...

axlee 4y ago
rot13 for the curious
- bravetraveler 4y ago
  "He was a cop by day, street-racer by night." For the curious and lazy
  - rolenthedeep 4y ago
    Thank you, I was indeed far too lazy to look this up
    - bravetraveler 4y ago
      My frustration with sharing the rot13 note but not a translation helped me overcome the laziness; so now many benefit! Honestly, I'm not sure why it was there to start with. Oh boy, the guy that drives a car for a living happens to enjoy cars
4y ago

urbandw311er 4y ago

Curious what happens if somebody tries to overtake the pacer?