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Why the rate of single men in the US looking for dates has declined
- uptownfunk 4y agoReally troubling statistics if true. I suspect the lockdown has exacerbated this. Frankly I worry for my own young children. I almost wish there was a place to live where there was little to no social media, no chronic cell phone addiction, people out in nature, together, socializing, cooperating.
- amir734jj 4y agoExactly. I also think increase in house prices, cost of living and lack of free time also contributed to this.
- granshaw 4y agoNot a comfortable thing to say, but this is one reason I’m glad my kid is a daughter and not a son If the dating game is already like this now, it’s scary thinking about how it’ll be 18 years from now
- erklik 4y ago> Not a comfortable thing to say, but this is one reason I’m glad my kid is a daughter and not a son I am missing something here... why? If the rate of single men in the US looking for a date has dropped, wouldn't a similar number (assuming majority straight relationships and monogamous pairings) of women be also single?
- User23 4y agoIt means that young women are increasingly able to exercise their preference for dating high status men, who are on average older.
- granshaw 4y agoNo, men aren’t looking for dates cause online dating has made it really brutal for them and allowed women to be more choosy It’s not by choice
- erklik 4y ago> No, men aren’t looking for dates cause online dating has made it really brutal for them and allowed women to be more choosy Isn't the result the same? More people are single? Or are we saying that more men have polyamorous relationships?
- justinclift 4y ago> Or are we saying that more men have polyamorous relationships? Seems to be this one.
- t-3 4y agoNah, it's by choice for many of us. I have no problem getting sex or charming women, and throughout my 20s had a bunch of fun with many women. I just don't care to do it anymore. I would rather spend my time learning and building than socializing, stressing, and dressing. Mostly I put this down to getting older, but a big part is just coming to terms with myself and how that differs from societal expectations. I've become comfortable in my own skin, so no longer seek validation of my manhood through sex and friends and money.
- granshaw 4y agoThere are always exceptions to the rule
- yieldcrv 4y agoCurrently that subset is dating the same men, while thinking they are monogamous The older men they are dating are not only dating younger women, or just one younger woman I can see that continuing
- nicenewtemp84 4y agoTake it from a serial dater male with great success on tinder/bumble.. the lives of many women is substantially worse than even guys that can't get a date. Unless you do a great job explaining the purpose of dating (courting?), There is a very high chance she'll simply become the temporary play thing of dozens of men. And being smart and well educated seems to have basically little to do with it.. I know many more married hair dressers than I do girls in tech. And beyond that... Many that ARE married are basically angry at life because they settled and are not sexually attracted to their husbands even. I almost thing men have it easier.. which you can verify for yourself if you look up depression stats and prescription stats.
- amir734jj 4y agoThat's an another angle I haven't thought about. Thank you for sharing.
- uwagar 4y ago[flagged]
- amir734jj 4y agoBasically yes.
- anovikov 4y agoIt only depends on how good advances in antibiotics will be...
- nicenewtemp84 4y agoI was not saying that. I was saying that just having a girl doesn't automatically put things on easy mode for her (or you as a parent) because girls have their own set of challenges they didn't face just a generation or two ago.
- uwagar 4y ago
- JesusLovesEwe 4y agoIf you think the situation is any better for young women, you're in for a shock. From where I'm sitting, the propaganda targeting women is far, far more pervasive and destructive. Everything about their relationships - the why, when, who and how - is undermined in an alarming majority of our institutions. Date many and often with no inhibitions, "have fun", don't get "tied down", delay marriage and family or abstain altogether, date men with little in common, date women, prioritise career, kids are disgusting and expensive, kids threaten your Instagram physique, pointless travelling > family, make easy money on OnlyFans, there's the psychological impact (distortion of standards) of having easy access to sex with very high quality men who would never "settle" for them in marriage, and do all of this with reckless abandon because if anyone is not enthusiastically supportive then the issue is with them not you and your sordid past. It's little wonder so many women wake up one day, they're 38, single, childless, and depressed. The antidepressant usage among Western women is shocking. I would argue that a very large contributing factor in our young men's disillusionment with dating is a product of the damage being done to our young women.
- amir734jj 4y ago> I would argue that a very large contributing factor in our young men's disillusionment with dating is a product of the damage being done to our young women Can you please elaborate more on this conclusion? I agree with everything you said until that statement.
- anovikov 4y agoOK delaying marriage and family is normal for all countries and all cultures, there's nothing to be done about it and it has nothing to do with Tinder let alone with OnlyFans lol, it's simply because age of maturity has increased due to higher impact of career and education. Of all things you said, i agree only with the "distortion of standards" thing. Again, it's global, has nothing to do with the U.S. or "West" in general, happens everywhere - even more so in more vertical, traditional Asian cultures (with corresponding decline of birthrates). Yet, it's a problem i can see no solution for unless single parenthood is completely normalised (which might require elimination of religion).
- anovikov 4y agoBut well, for a son it will mean "having a hard time getting laid" (which is a good thing for a man because it gives motivation to achieve things). For a woman it means "being utterly unable to get married unless they sign for a man who is considered undateable/invisible and a shame be next to from the standpoint of 95% of their women peers". That is, average man, for an average woman. A man can be hooking up with many girls but he can only marry one at a time. Which means, it's a double-edged sword: Tinder raised standards of what an acceptable male looks like, making it equally harder for men to get laid as for women to get married.
- forgetfreeman 4y agoYou literally just described the Amish.
- klipt 4y agoWith their much higher fertility rate, Amish society will probably outlast ours.
- labster 4y agoI know people seem to see social factors in declining birth rate, but I mainly see economic causes. As population reduces, housing and employment become more available, meaning more people can afford to have children. A century ago more children meant more income, but now it means less. Reduce the marginal cost of children and demand will increase.
- amir734jj 4y agoExactly. No one can afford a house and with inflation and rise in cost of living it will get worse. A lot worse.
- klipt 4y agoThat sounds plausible, but almost everywhere in the world, wealth and fertility seem to be negatively correlated. Poor people have kids early and have more, while rich people delay and have few or none.
- fiso64 4y agoI'm wondering if these statistics adjust for age. Wealthier people are usually older and therefore less fertile. Also, there may be selection bias at play here since whoever is more wealthy is more likely to prioritize their career over family & children.
- labster 4y agoComments like these remind me of people who distrust climate models telling me (a meteorologist) what the climate model ignores, which of course it doesn’t ignore because scientists aren’t morons. There is a lot of questionable statistics in the social sciences, but I am 1000% sure that people studying fertility account for age.
- kerpotgh 4y ago[dead]
- newyankee 4y agoThe maths of dating never makes sense unless you make some really difficult assumptions. Reminds me of a joke from somewhere: Every happy man is single and every happy woman is married.
- DanHulton 4y agoI have recently heard the opposite, at least as far as women goes. For a lot of women, especially mothers, being a single mother is a whole lot easier than being a married mother, since there is one less person in the house they have to take care of. A whole lot of men were not socialized to be actual contributing partners, which loops back around into the prime reason why a lot of men are having a hard time dating these days, because a whole lot of women are sick of putting up with that, and are instead looking for men who will contribute an equal amount of housework, cooking, emotional labour, etc. Especially given that it's not broadly reasonable for a single partner to go out and earn enough money at one job to support both people (let alone a family), it's no longer acceptable for men to not contribute around the house equally.
- klipt 4y agoThe American Time Use Survey data suggests that when you add up hours spent on jobs and household chores, men and women work basically the same hours: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2013/03/14/chapter-6-time-in-work-and-leisure-patterns-by-gender-and-family-structure/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2013/03/14/chapter... Of course this is an average, so it's possible in some families women are working more, and in other families men are working more. But modern political sensibilities filter those stories so that you'll only hear those confirming a certain bias (men bad), which distorts the overall picture, which is on average equal work.
- granshaw 4y agoBreakdown of community and extended family has also contributed. The amount of chores needed to raise a modern family with two working parents and no help, even factoring in childcare, is insane
- 4y ago
- mellosouls 4y agoUnderlying report discussed here a couple of days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34895267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34895267 Note though that this video adds some rare (for mainstream media due to its controversial nature) perspective on the long-known causes of the problem, raised by some in that and earlier discussions.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 4y agoWill probably get downvoted for this. But I'm a very conventionally attractive guy with a good job in a major US city. I basically have an unlimited stream of dates through dating apps from women of all walks of life. Upwards of 20 - 50 matches a day if I really push it. People already know this, but I dont think they know how bad the schew is. Every young single woman is chasing the same few men and they dont care if that guy is dating other women. As these women enter their 30s I really dont know what is going to happen. Society will be an odd place in twenty years. The social dynamics between men and women have never existed like this.
- DoreenMichele 4y agoThere's an old joke -- or perhaps humorous observation -- that men want to be the first person a woman sleeps with and women want to be the last person a man sleeps with. Men tend to be looking for sex. Women tend to be looking for long-term relationships. Another similar observation: Men give love to get sex, women give sex to get love.
- willis936 4y agoI'm struggling to think of less accurate generalizations. Maybe that's the line that the old guard is trying to sell to society, but it is not being bought by new generations.
- DoreenMichele 4y agoThe dating -- or hookup -- scene seems to have changed a lot for younger people. I'm not young, but my primary point was that even in older, more conservative times there was some recognition of the fact that male and female strategies differ and women aren't typically looking for someone pure and untouched. I've seen multiple comments here by men who seem surprised or something that women often don't care that they are seeing others. And I'm trying to say "It's really not that surprising and if you think about it for a minute, it's a well-known and long-standing pattern, really."
- ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
- barelyauser 4y agoAs an asian man who has traveled to LATAM and the US, I am not surprised. American women are super entitled, hard to approach and borderline delusional when selecting men. It is never enough for them. They are hard to approach, judgy and sincerely just a pain in the ass. Women in LATAM for example are a thousand times sweeter, more feminine and approachable.
- csomar 4y agoI think this will come down to personal preference. For me these sweet feminine woman are annoying as hell and they have expectations that you'll take care of things. I'll take the independent American or west European woman any time of the day.
- ghusto 4y agoMaybe it's different in the US, but in the parts of Europe I've lived, you get the worst of both worlds: "independent" woman who are completely dependant for "traditional man tasks". These "sweet feminine woman" you speak of really don't take any shit either. I think the US has a picture of submissives under the patriarchy when they look at Eastern woman, for example. Let me tell you, that can not be further from the truth. I've dated, middle Eastern and Asian woman, and they had more _actual_ independence than any European woman I've seen -- and good on them!
- ChiMan 4y agoKey to a love life in America: Only date immigrants or women who grew up in an immigrant household. Works like a charm. America’s immigrant communities are chock full of real women looking for real relationships.
- throwaway892238 4y agoWomen in LATAM are also much more likely to get a boob job as teenagers (it was so common that until a law was passed preventing it, 30 percent of plastic surgeries in Colombia were on underage girls). LATAM cultures are in some ways more warm and welcoming, but in other ways more regressive/toxic, such as their gender roles and sexuality. Seems great to you because you're benefiting from it, but American women probably enjoy greater independence.
- Beaver117 4y agoAnother controversial comment but I know more and more young men deciding not to waste time pursuing dates and instead going to prostitutes.
- csomar 4y agoIt's only controversial in the US. Sex work is a legitimate job. We are selling our brain time on a daily basis to employer. Someone else is selling labor and cleaning the sewers. It's exactly the same thing unless you have a religious agenda.
- thunderbong 4y agoOnly if there's a legal framework which is followed and enforced to prevent exploitation.
- number6 4y agoSame for all other kinds of work.
- mrphoebs 4y agoNo it's not, it might be acceptable in a few societies but in a vast majority of societies across the globe sex work is both frowned upon and illegal. You are naive if you think all prostitutes are willing participants that chose this as a career. Across the world forced prostitution/sex work is fuelled by human trafficking of women and minors. In an ideal world human beings should be free to make their own choices based on their context and society free to judge them based on it's context. One can't have it both ways. One cannot have absolute individual freedom within a social substrate and be an accepted member of said society without adhering to the norms of the social contract, what ever that might be.
- justinclift 4y agoSimultaneously, it takes some balls (sic) to claim that sex work in all countries is definitely the result of human trafficking (etc). How about: "In some countries, sex work seems to be illegal and problematic. But in other countries, it's regulated and successful.".
- causticthrow 4y agoThrowaway. I’m looking for advice. I live in a decently big city, I make very good money - close to 200k which is far above what most people here pull in. Lead teams of people. Am in mid 30s, well over 6ft. White. My (few) sexual partners couldn’t get enough. I work out with a generous physique, get compliments that I can’t even accept these days. I’m extremely jaded. I stopped talking/interacting and even making eye contact with women despite working in an industry essentially dominated by them. I’m not sure what to do because the idea that a few men are getting all the women does not sit well with me at all. Even if I could be one of them, to me it’s a society-ruining move and I can’t in good faith participate. So I feel disgust and this disgust is turning me into a misogynist. I’d like to hear some thoughts as to how to get out of this rut and interact with women again without feeling like I’m being used, and that the average man out there can only dream of being in my position as he faces insurmountable rejection and will also be used in a far worse way than me. It just sounds like a kick in the balls.
- amir734jj 4y agoDeleted.
- causticthrow 4y agoPardon for deftness - what does this have to do with incels?
- amir734jj 4y agoWith rise in expectations, rise in cost of living, housing price increase, in 10 years there will be either single men who rather live alone OR very few prince charming. No third option.
- causticthrow 4y agoI’m looking for advice on avoiding being a jaded misogynist, not economic forecasts 10 years down the road.
- joshka 4y ago[flagged]
- pengaru 4y agoIf only we could plot these stats vs. ano-genital distance to see if fetal underdevelopment correlates... BPA I'm looking at you.
- thealchemistdev 4y agoThis comment section is like watching web developers argue over frameworks.
- analognoise 4y agoBy far, this is worse.
- ryloric 4y agoFar worse tbh..
- BenGosub 4y agoI want to hear the female side on this topic as well. It's definitely not easy to find a long term partner for both sides.
- midoridensha 4y ago>I want to hear the female side on this topic as well. Good luck with that in places like this...
- pentagrama 4y agoSome parts of this trend I find it positive for society. The traditional pressure to have a partner is too much, learn to be alone is important to self development, have to sleep in the same bed every night is bananas to me.