7 ms·

Solution: run Windows in a VM, one machine per account, nuke it from orbit when-not-if something goes awry. Hundreds of hours of frustration prevented from a sy

Solution: run Windows in a VM, one machine per account, nuke it from orbit when-not-if something goes awry. Hundreds of hours of frustration prevented from a system that is not even able to have the same UI across all its windows.

ccouzens 4y ago
Or run apps like Teams in a web browser. Web browsers have good isolation techniques like Chrome's profiles and Firefox's containers. Teams is written using web technologies so you're getting the same experience as the app.
- adamzochowski 4y ago
  This doesn't work perfectly well if you are on multiple calls at the same time. Desktop Teams allows you to join multiple calls at once, and switch between them is easy. Web browser teams disconnects you from one meeting to join another. The only solution is to open multiple browser profiles, each for different call, and then manage the 'mute tab' manually. Additionally, web browser edition has something to detect if tab is active, and will downscale / delay video stream if tab is not active. This is extremely annoying when you have meeting active on one monitor, and want to double check what is being discussed on another. Saying all this, web browser teams at least works. Desktop one stops working because as the whole discussion here points out, accounts get mixed up. I can't join team meetings anonymously because desktop edition thinks I have an account, but when I try to login it tells me my account doesn't have Teams enabled.
- ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
  The problem is that Windows 11 and above (try very hard to) require a Microsoft account, because these orcas of computing want to remind you with every step that you don't own the device you bought. Hence it's simpler/better to just virtualize everything. Besides, there is a very satisfactory feeling when something doesn't work for whatever reason, you do a quick search and see that apparently you must edit some awfully named HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE register or rename some <username>/AppData to .old (just had to do this yesterday, wild), and then, when the quick fix doesn't work, instead of trying to look for more fixes you just give up and start cussing until the VM is restored to a working backup.
  - Strom 4y ago
    > The problem is that Windows 11 and above require a Microsoft account It is not quite a requirement, I have my Windows 11 Pro running just fine with no Microsoft account. They do attempt really hard to make it look like it's required though. Even going as far as showing a fullscreen app after Windows update that only has options for registering or login, but luckily Alt+F4 closes that abomination.
    - jimbobimbo 4y ago
      I believe, Microsoft account is a requirement for Home editions, not Pro or above.
      - CatWChainsaw 4y ago
        Pro now requires it unless you know any loopholes.
    - ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
      Edited. I just didn't even bothered; given the trend, probably Windows 12 or 13 will close the loopholes.
      - skissane 4y ago
        They can never “close the loopholes” entirely, because there are customers that want machines with zero access to public Internet (embedded systems, national security, etc), where a Microsoft account is an absolute non-starter. Closing all the loopholes would be abandoning those market segments (many of which are already trending towards Linux/etc anyway) I suppose they might make it mandatory unless you have some special version of Windows which is hard to buy (like LTSC). But make it too hard they risk that market. Anyway, now bypassing it involves opening a command prompt window, only the more technical users will do so, and that’s a small enough minority they probably aren’t missing much.
        airtonix 4y ago
- zamnos 4y ago
  No, you're not. Specifically, unless you configure things juuuust right, then the alt-tab behavior and the taskbar/dock behavior is different. Not a show stopping "bug", but let's not pretend it's entirely workflow transparent to use it from Chrome.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  As someone who has to do that (one work account with my company, one with our customer) the UX is miserable. Notifications work sometimes, delay can be significant and I don’t trust the auto-away feature when Teams run in a browser. Multi-accounts are really painful with most chat clients I have encountered. It sometimes makes me miss e-mail where the inside/outside distinction doesn’t exist.
- russfink 4y ago
  And in an incognito window, too.
- theK 4y ago
  Browsers have come a long way in this regard, you are right. Even before containers, I love having a ff profile for work and one for personal stuff, they are ultra portable too.
nix23 4y ago
The real solution is not to use systems who allows that.
- ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
  Of course, the problem is that in the last 38 years [1] plenty of programs have been developed for Windows-only, especially when you have to interact with the state [2]: there are still tutorials out there that require you open a website in Internet Explorer (!) if you want to validate a tax form or whatever other trivial task. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows_version_history#Windows_1.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows_version_hist... [2] All the backroom deals for Windows/Office licenses for state-use certainly helped in this regard, https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-not-windows-why-munich-is-shifting-back-from-microsoft-to-open-source-again https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-not-windows-why-munich-i...
  - nix23 4y ago
    So you think Azure is the only "cloud"-platform that can run windows? I talked about Azure not an OS, this has nothing todo with Windows, DOS or Xenix.
nytesky 4y ago
How do you get an instance of licensed Windows to run within the VM?
- ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
  It's a more or less regular install: a quick search [1]. [1] https://geekflare.com/windows-11-in-virtual-box https://geekflare.com/windows-11-in-virtual-box.
Gud 4y ago
Even better: Use Wine. I am so tired of running a windows VM.
theK 4y ago
Yeah, this would be my preffered way as well. I dont use any MS products any more in my personal life or my own ventures but if I would, that would be the way. But this is not a global cure. This probably will work fine in a household or small business environment but there are tons of reasons why it most probably probably will not work in a corporate environment.
pizzamig 4y ago
> Solution: run Windows in a VM, one machine per account, nuke it from orbit when-not-if something goes awry. Hundreds of hours of frustration prevented from a system that is not even able to have the same UI across all its windows. Better solution: don't use M$ product, if you can. Despite the efforts and resources Microsoft spends in improving its products, languages, tools, they are just an enterprise company: very expensive buggy products.
phpisthebest 4y ago
Or run FireFox Containers and the browser version of apps... works great for MS Accounts

ccouzens 4y ago

Or run apps like Teams in a web browser. Web browsers have good isolation techniques like Chrome's profiles and Firefox's containers. Teams is written using web technologies so you're getting the same experience as the app.

adamzochowski 4y ago
This doesn't work perfectly well if you are on multiple calls at the same time. Desktop Teams allows you to join multiple calls at once, and switch between them is easy. Web browser teams disconnects you from one meeting to join another. The only solution is to open multiple browser profiles, each for different call, and then manage the 'mute tab' manually. Additionally, web browser edition has something to detect if tab is active, and will downscale / delay video stream if tab is not active. This is extremely annoying when you have meeting active on one monitor, and want to double check what is being discussed on another. Saying all this, web browser teams at least works. Desktop one stops working because as the whole discussion here points out, accounts get mixed up. I can't join team meetings anonymously because desktop edition thinks I have an account, but when I try to login it tells me my account doesn't have Teams enabled.
ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
The problem is that Windows 11 and above (try very hard to) require a Microsoft account, because these orcas of computing want to remind you with every step that you don't own the device you bought. Hence it's simpler/better to just virtualize everything. Besides, there is a very satisfactory feeling when something doesn't work for whatever reason, you do a quick search and see that apparently you must edit some awfully named HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE register or rename some <username>/AppData to .old (just had to do this yesterday, wild), and then, when the quick fix doesn't work, instead of trying to look for more fixes you just give up and start cussing until the VM is restored to a working backup.
- Strom 4y ago
  > The problem is that Windows 11 and above require a Microsoft account It is not quite a requirement, I have my Windows 11 Pro running just fine with no Microsoft account. They do attempt really hard to make it look like it's required though. Even going as far as showing a fullscreen app after Windows update that only has options for registering or login, but luckily Alt+F4 closes that abomination.
  - jimbobimbo 4y ago
    I believe, Microsoft account is a requirement for Home editions, not Pro or above.
    - CatWChainsaw 4y ago
      Pro now requires it unless you know any loopholes.
  - ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
    Edited. I just didn't even bothered; given the trend, probably Windows 12 or 13 will close the loopholes.
    - skissane 4y ago
      They can never “close the loopholes” entirely, because there are customers that want machines with zero access to public Internet (embedded systems, national security, etc), where a Microsoft account is an absolute non-starter. Closing all the loopholes would be abandoning those market segments (many of which are already trending towards Linux/etc anyway) I suppose they might make it mandatory unless you have some special version of Windows which is hard to buy (like LTSC). But make it too hard they risk that market. Anyway, now bypassing it involves opening a command prompt window, only the more technical users will do so, and that’s a small enough minority they probably aren’t missing much.
      - airtonix 4y ago
zamnos 4y ago
No, you're not. Specifically, unless you configure things juuuust right, then the alt-tab behavior and the taskbar/dock behavior is different. Not a show stopping "bug", but let's not pretend it's entirely workflow transparent to use it from Chrome.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
As someone who has to do that (one work account with my company, one with our customer) the UX is miserable. Notifications work sometimes, delay can be significant and I don’t trust the auto-away feature when Teams run in a browser. Multi-accounts are really painful with most chat clients I have encountered. It sometimes makes me miss e-mail where the inside/outside distinction doesn’t exist.
russfink 4y ago
And in an incognito window, too.
theK 4y ago
Browsers have come a long way in this regard, you are right. Even before containers, I love having a ff profile for work and one for personal stuff, they are ultra portable too.

nix23 4y ago

The real solution is not to use systems who allows that.

ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
Of course, the problem is that in the last 38 years [1] plenty of programs have been developed for Windows-only, especially when you have to interact with the state [2]: there are still tutorials out there that require you open a website in Internet Explorer (!) if you want to validate a tax form or whatever other trivial task. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows_version_history#Windows_1.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows_version_hist... [2] All the backroom deals for Windows/Office licenses for state-use certainly helped in this regard, https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-not-windows-why-munich-is-shifting-back-from-microsoft-to-open-source-again https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-not-windows-why-munich-i...
- nix23 4y ago
  So you think Azure is the only "cloud"-platform that can run windows? I talked about Azure not an OS, this has nothing todo with Windows, DOS or Xenix.

nytesky 4y ago

How do you get an instance of licensed Windows to run within the VM?

ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
It's a more or less regular install: a quick search [1]. [1] https://geekflare.com/windows-11-in-virtual-box https://geekflare.com/windows-11-in-virtual-box.

Gud 4y ago

Even better: Use Wine. I am so tired of running a windows VM.

theK 4y ago

Yeah, this would be my preffered way as well. I dont use any MS products any more in my personal life or my own ventures but if I would, that would be the way. But this is not a global cure. This probably will work fine in a household or small business environment but there are tons of reasons why it most probably probably will not work in a corporate environment.

pizzamig 4y ago

> Solution: run Windows in a VM, one machine per account, nuke it from orbit when-not-if something goes awry. Hundreds of hours of frustration prevented from a system that is not even able to have the same UI across all its windows. Better solution: don't use M$ product, if you can. Despite the efforts and resources Microsoft spends in improving its products, languages, tools, they are just an enterprise company: very expensive buggy products.

phpisthebest 4y ago

Or run FireFox Containers and the browser version of apps... works great for MS Accounts