14 ms·

Tax raids at BBC offices in India enter second day

251 points by sorokod 4y ago

karaterobot 4y ago
Sure, that'll stop a global news agency from reporting on you.
BBC_Goons 4y ago
Are we talking about this BBC? BBC TV licence goons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jljn8YI1_GQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jljn8YI1_GQ Perhaps the British police could be used to crack down on the grooming gangs.
sorokod 4y ago
The Modi Question on Peertube: https://peertube.tv/search?search=The%20Modi%20Question%20&searchTarget=local https://peertube.tv/search?search=The%20Modi%20Question%20&s...
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  When will it be available legally in the U.S.?
  - ridiculous_leke 4y ago
    I wonder what's holding the release in the US?
    - _23sd 4y ago
      BBC doesn't release most of their documentaries in the US. I wouldn't assume there are any plans being held up, it's just too niche for any US distributors to bother. Maybe the interest due to India trying to ban it will change that...
      - zakember 4y ago
        I never understood the Indian ban. Aren't BBC documentaries available in the UK only anyways? Indian residents couldn't have accessed it without a VPN anyways.
        rhaway84773 4y ago
        It’s the result of a thin skinned paranoid government ruling the country. There was gonna be absolutely no impact whatsoever if they had just kept quiet and not said a thing. Instead their touchiness has meant that this has become a much bigger deal and is actually impacting their favorability negatively, at least anecdotally.
        mrguyorama 4y ago
        It's so pathetic how thin skinned this "strong"men are. Oh, you think I bear a nearly non-existent resemblance to a much loved storybook bear? Off to """reeducation""" camps with you! You make a milquetoast documentary about things I did a decade ago that were pretty bad, GTFO! "No you're a puppet, you are you are" It's just pathetic. How does anyone look at these people and think they are strong?
        manquer 4y ago
        Hardly only the UK, BBC world and many other divisions like the recently shuttered BBC Arabic focused on content and distribution primarily in commonwealth or emerging countries . iplayer is how you get free access in the UK to BBC because residents pay the TV tax for it . Rest of the world you pay for it in some way as part of cable deal , subscriptions etc, or BBC decides to make it free or ad supported . —— Keep in mind BBC is no different than aljazeera it is state sponsored and is import part of soft power toolkit of the UK government uses this doesn’t mean they are wrong or biased in anyway on the Modi documentary nothing in it is new or not widely known , for example until he became PM he was blocked from getting a U.S. visa for his role in the riots . BBC content can be good like aljazeera (especially for non Qatari /ME content) can be but the inherent politics of it cannot be forgotten or ignored
      - 4y ago
    - LordAtlas 4y ago
      It was posted on YouTube but our authoritarian thin-skinned Prime Minister issued orders to Google to take it down.
      - whatshisface 4y ago
        Why does the prime minister of a country I don't live in get to take videos down from servers hosted in the country I do?
  - FlyingSnake 4y ago
    It is legally available on the internet
- teddyh 4y ago
  Also: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:f80de3863cbfaa6465fdec1b80777b7aa144c58d magnet:?xt=urn:btih:41fb7b407b2c00393da307838729538be9ce68e0 magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3c378a82cf67a1107523ca6c647077403a1ef74d
  - teddyh 4y ago
    (Allegedly, that is.)
formerly_proven 4y ago
The raiding will improve until m̶o̶r̶a̶l̶e̶ reporting improves.
- coolspot 4y ago
  Worked in Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTV_(Russia)#Change_of_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTV_(Russia)#Change_of_managem...
  - AzzieElbab 4y ago
    I know nothing about India’s politics but Russia’s legal system is explicitly structured in the way that makes you break laws every step of the way so that law enforcement can be applied selectively
AlbertCory 4y ago
[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > BBC seems to have taken up a role as the anti-Modi network Could you point to prominent sources making this claim? > if it was also aimed at China The BBC created diplomatic chaos between Downing Street and Beijing with their Xinjiang coverage [1][2]. I'm not sure why you think their coverage of Russia or Pakistan has been any less scathing. > pointing to something Modi-positive they've ever run See the BBC's coverage of his anti-poverty [3] and climate [4] work. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07g39mt https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07g39mt [2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000btl7 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000btl7 [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-41397022 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-41397022 [4] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-40144613 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-40144613
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > the existence of the video itself is the claim They made a video critical of Modi, herego the entire BBC has an anti-Modi bias? Yet when the BBC puts out content critical of Xi or Putin or Erdogan, it's not comparable?
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    [3] and [4[ are the same. Even have the same URL. And you didn't mention any of those other countries I named. Apparently it's too hard to them to write about them, or else "brutal oppression" isn't news to their viewers.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > [3] and [4[ are the same. Even have the same URL Fixed. > you didn't mention any of those other countries I named BBC's exposé on the Uyghurs was a big deal. That you missed it, along with apparently their take on the Ukraine war, should be a nudge to look yourself.
2Gkashmiri 4y ago
[flagged]
brucethemoose2 4y ago
There was a great post from a VPN provider about how they've honed circumvention tactics in China for years, and that whatever Russia was doing post-Ukraine was just primitive in comparison. If India really tries to go down the internet censorship rabbit hole, its probably not gonna go well, as they are decades behind more seasoned despotic regimes.
- jonny_eh 4y ago
  They're not competing with anyone here, so why does it matter that China's censorship mechanism are superior?
  - brucethemoose2 4y ago
    Oh but they are competing. The circumventors get access to tools and methods developed for those other countries, the global circumvention market if you will. But the Indian government is not getting China's or Russia's censorship experience.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    Because tools developed for China could be used in India and it would take them awhile to reach the levels China which isn't effective
    - jonny_eh 4y ago
      Aren't China and India political enemies? I find it hard to imagine the Indian govt procuring core information technology from China.
- causi 4y ago
  Is that significant, though? These nations aren't trying to keep things secret. They just have to keep them out of the day to day thoughts of 95% of their population. Even trivial measures like a DNS-redirect will be effective in that regard.
  - 4y ago
amriksohata 4y ago
[flagged]
22SAS 4y ago
[flagged]
sbmyft 4y ago
[flagged]
- zakember 4y ago
  > Why should a British funded propaganda machine be even allowed in a foreign country? Same reason why any other foreign website is allowed in India or why other countries watch Bollywood movies. Globalization is a win-win for everyone. No country in the world is self-sustaining.
  - mikymoothrowa 4y ago
    every sentence of this is wrong. There are several foreign channels that are banned in India including Al Jazeera and for very good reasons. Plus, I’m sure the West doesn’t get Russia Today or CCTV right now. nor India’s DD
    - webartisan 4y ago
      There’s little one can do if some in the country are hell bent on putting their heads in sands like an ostrich. Doesn’t change the truth, unfortunately. As for Al Jazeera and other channels you mentioned, they can be watched online – unlike the Modi documentary.
      - realce 4y ago
        [flagged]
    - zakember 4y ago
      > There are several foreign channels that are banned in India including Al Jazeera and for very good reasons. Al Jazeera isn't banned. In fact it is a free channel on most cable network providers > Plus, I’m sure the West doesn’t get Russia Today or CCTV right now. nor India’s DD Actually DD is also available in US, just like WION (another Indian news channel)
AlbertCory 4y ago
[flagged]
- rhaway84773 4y ago
  Which is still no reason to blatantly try and suppress their legal and democratic rights. And anyways, at this point this has nothing to do with thr BBC. This is the BJP telling every other news agency in India, a year before the 2024 general elections, that if they dare publish anything the ruling party doesn’t like, they will use the entire power of the state to make the publishing entity’s life miserable. If you want to understand why the BJP would risk the Streisand effect, it’s not because they are incompetent. It’s because this is a very deliberate and calculated message to every other press outlet in India to not mess with the BJP in the months before the election.
InTheArena 4y ago
India is increasingly going down the slippery slope of repression that we have seen frequently in countries about 5-10 years before they lose their collective minds, and everyone wonders when the state "went bad".
- mikymoothrowa 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - shadowfox 4y ago
    > India is much more robust democratically. Out of curiosity, why do you think that is the case?
    - rusticpenn 4y ago
      I would agree, many Indians, the democratic majority support this.
      - 01acheru 4y ago
        The fact that you agree doesn't make it correct, and there is no such thing as "democratic majority" in supporting something without a proof. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
        rusticpenn 4y ago
        I am sorry if you missed my sarcasm.
    - 01acheru 4y ago
      They are probably Indian and feel it a lot.
    - sfifs 4y ago
      Not OP but Many many instances of corrupt leaders or leaders with unpopular policies/poor governance being thrown out of power in elections peacefully. If anything, the fatalism & inability of Americans to change their political establishment tends to be puzzling for us.
0xDEF 4y ago
The reason the Indian government is afraid is because they know the secular Southern India will secede if they found out they're ruled by a religious North Indian madman who killed 750-2000 Muslims. Before this documentary the 2002 Gujarat events were largely brushed aside as ordinary 3rd world sectarian violence but the BBC documentary shows that Modi personally orchestrated the whole thing. The complete balkanization of India is about to happen and I don't think the rest of the world will be able to cope with the number of refugees.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  What did Vajpayee and Congress do during https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_massacre
- travisporter 4y ago
  You’re effectively saying a civil war is about to erupt?
- sjnonweb 4y ago
  Complete balkanization of India? You don't know what you are talking about do you?
  - MPlus88 4y ago
    Until the British arrived the subcontinent was a mishmash of thousands of fiefdoms that were at each other's throat. That looks balkanization to me.
    - sjnonweb 4y ago
      You need to read a little more history then! India's history goes much further than that. Read up on The Maurya Empire
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
benbristow 4y ago
So the Indian government have got all the time in the world to raid offices over tax but don't do anything over scam call centres scamming innocent victims all over the world.
- tyingq 4y ago
  I see that, but for calls going to the US, the US could actually implement STIR/SHAKEN and other measures to quell it...but they drag their feet.
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    I feel like the US is in a position to simply have some police deliberately fall for these scams, then wire over the $25k as the scammer instructs, then trace that money as far as the indian border, then demand the indian government repay it. The indian government can continue tracing and find the scammer to get their money back (hard), or just shut down the call centers (easier). Yes, I know this isn't the way international disputes work right now. But I think the US is in a position to make demands like this, with the threat that US borders will be closed to indian nationals, goods and investment unless india pays up. Repeat however many times are necessary to solve the problem.
    - LarryMullins 4y ago
      Hit them where it hurts: Ban all family members of anybody in Indian government from entering the US for any reason. Not for school, nor a job, nor even a short vacation to visit other family members. Limit this ban to Indian politicians and their family members; most Indians should be unaffected.
      - telotortium 4y ago
        Step 1 on the (very short) path to making the US dollar permanently lose its influence. Unless India starts invading Pakistan for conquest or population destruction, sanctions even on Indian politicians and their families go way too far (not to mention some of those sanctioned people would likely be top business leaders as well). The US is already testing its limits trying to go against Russia and China simultaneously. Economic warfare (for that is what sanctions effectively are) against India as well would be catastrophic.
nocababges 4y ago
on a flip side what is the point of releasing it now vs before, seems some malice intent on part of BBC. Indian Supreme Court already aquitted Modi of the Riots in 2012.
- rhaway84773 4y ago
  There is no flip side. One action is democratic, the other isn’t. But to answer your question, the documentary and its timing is the result of a UK report created by the UK consulate after the riots was made public within the last year or so because UK law requires such documents to be made public after a certain amount of time. Finally, Modi being acquitted in an Indian court of law doesn’t mean innocence. Even ignoring any questions of corruption, etc, India does not have one of those legal systems which decides whether a defendant is guilty or innocent. India’s court system only decides whether someone can be proven guilty. An acquittal simply means that one cannot be proven guilty, not that they are innocent. The not guilty verdict can also be the result of a lack of evidence (which was the case in this situation), or due to procedural mistakes, etc. which may lead to an acquittal even if someone is guilty.
- anaganisk 4y ago
  Supreme court or a local mobile court, all function based on evidence. And evidence can be tampered. And dont tell me in India people dont say "If he has money/power he will be free". Courts dont investigate. They listen to what prosecution has to provide, if prosecustion has new evidence decades later, the acquital can be oveturned. Doesnt mean someone is innocent forever. Its not a certificate of innocence.
  - nocababges 4y ago
    So you will trust BBC propaganda more than Supreme Court. right on.
    - anaganisk 4y ago
      You do realise that you are literally turning gears in your head to come up with some witty line but end up justifying my comment yourself without even trying to understand what I said. If the BBC documentary can provide new evidence or some common person comes up with new evidence, they can literally repoen the case, and who knows may be the accusations may be found with a guilty verdict. There are several cases that have been re-opened, and verdicts reversed decades later. Supreme court giving a clean chit doesn't mean a permanent certificate of innocence. It just means evidence was not strong by prosecution during the trial.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
walthamstow 4y ago
I think we're getting a lot of highly-upvoted semi-controversial news posts at the moment. It's not what I come to HN for, in fact the lack of news is one of the reasons I come here.
- 0xDEF 4y ago
  https://lobste.rs https://lobste.rs is your friend.
blobbers 4y ago
Let's raid the foreign news. That'll go over well with the international community and foreign investors. We can build trust if we just make sure the journalists pay their taxes.
sjnonweb 4y ago
Propaganda against India is pretty strong these days
- 01acheru 4y ago
  Indian propaganda is pretty strong these days.
  - sjnonweb 4y ago
    Like what?
    - 01acheru 4y ago
      Like all those outraged Indian nationalists that pop up in flocks anywhere and every time there is a news outlet that goes against Indian nationalist propaganda and big boss Modi?
      - sjnonweb 4y ago
        Well its bound to happens when the said news outlet forgets to show the other side of the story, selectively missing on the nuance. I'm no fan of Modi, No fan of half truths either.
        01acheru 4y ago
        Please reply to the sibling, I would make the same point. You seem to be overreacting, just not as much as the others.
- luuurker 4y ago
  It seems that "these days" every criticism is propaganda. It doesn't matter if the points are valid or not or if they're describing something that it's happening. "Propaganda!" It's very sad to see people everywhere turning off their brains just because their government was criticised.
satya71 4y ago
This is the favored tactic of Indian government when trying to intimidate the press (or politicians). [1] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/it-raids-on-dainik-bhaskar-group/article35458142.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/it-raids...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- WeylandYutani 4y ago
  It is interesting that it took Western media to blow the whistle. You could write books about everything that is wrong with my country (many people do) but independent journalism is sacrosanct.
  - adventured 4y ago
    It's identical to the Western response to the Iranian government murdering many thousands of their people (who were protesting) prior to the pandemic. Versus the response to the Khashoggi murder by the Saudis. Both reprehensible regimes, the media treated one death as being particularly special. Going by the massive coverage of Khashoggi, you'd get the impression thousands of murders is less important than one, and you'd be right re the Western media's obvious bias (they dislike Saudi Arabia more than Iran, and Khashoggi was one of their own).
    - imbiased 4y ago
      The Iranian government was already known to be terrible to its people. The Saudis ordering an assassination _abroad, using their embassy, in such a violent way on a dissident_ made a lot of people aware of the problem that was the new Saudi regime which had some Western alignment. It’s not that this death was more important, it’s just revealed a big change in Saudi Arabia
      - adventured 4y ago
        Which ignores the vast gap between coverage in the one murder vs the thousands of murders. The bias was on open display, and it's a perceived political alignment issue (Saudi Arabia is quite friendly with US conservatives traditionally and far more hostile to US liberals; ~95%+ of journalists in the US vote left and they're rarely shy with their bias in the Trump era; Saudi was relatively friendly toward Trump and it's openly hostile toward Biden; all of this is quite obvious).
yalogin 4y ago
Because this is BBC the government is forced to stop at intimidation and using legal means too. There are simply way too many global eyes on the incident. Prior to this government, the media was largely free to do anything they want. Modi seems to have taken the additional step to thwart any negative reporting. This is just terrible for the country. Not surprising given his overall approach to governing
net-ghost 4y ago
In the terms of USA, BBC is a foreign agent as long as India is concerned. source: https://fair.org/home/foreign-agents-designation-causes-media-cold-war/ https://fair.org/home/foreign-agents-designation-causes-medi...
fleddr 4y ago
Isn't it impressive how incompetent authoritarian regimes are? I mean, India has a great thing going. Geopolitically, it's exempt from bans on trading with Russia, so it can play both sides and get away with it. It has build up a vast services industry as the "back office of the world", a major driver of economic prosperity. It's likely the main beneficiary of re-shoring manufacturing out of China. In this position, quite literally the dumbest thing you can do is to attract international attention by attacking a western institute like the BBC. You weaken your position in geopolitics. You scare investors. You don't realize how unlike manufacturing, services are extremely easy to move to another country. And why even start manufacturing in this regime, when plenty of saner countries are nearby? You want to gamble with all of that, for what? A BBC report that does nothing. Give it no attention and everything stays exactly the same.
- busterarm 4y ago
  Let's be real, the beneficiaries of re-shoring manufacturing were always going to be the countries that used to do it before China became the cheaper option. Namely: Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Korea, Japan.
  - rnk 4y ago
    I don't think that's right, apple moving some iPhone and other production to India is a big deal. But it's not going to be easy because of all the production lines and parts that are made by other companies in China and the built up expertise. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/sep/27/apple-shifts-some-iphone-14-production-from-china-to-india https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/sep/27/apple-shi...
    - busterarm 4y ago
      No country is going to benefit from just one company moving their production there. Focusing on just Apple is blowing things out of proportion. A lot of India's electronics manufacturing at the moment is still limited to recycling (e.g, Sony Trinitron CRTs)
throwway1922 4y ago
Lets be honest. Usually people used to make fun of me as an ex-Indian living in the West telling that the west is doomed because of Iraq, Bush, Trump etc. Schadenfreude: it seems India are ready to dig themselves into a hole. This should benefit the West on the long run.
rhyminggpt 4y ago
India has long been a land of thugs: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/44881/44881-h/44881-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/44881/44881-h/44881-h.htm
- rajup 4y ago
  Wow. Racist dog whistles in HackerNews. Sad to say I’m not surprised.
babypuncher 4y ago
Attacking the press is never a good look in my book. Without even having seen the documentary, this convinces me that Modi is guilty of anything it accuses him of.
- frontman1988 4y ago
  It doesn't matter what you think. Modi is hugely popular in India and won with a very strong mandate. Countering attempts of brainwashing by the former colonialists only makes Modi more of a hero to the locals. There is a reason Modi is taking up this fight, he could have choosen to ignore the bait. But it actually helps drive support for him in India. And it really shows in the latest approval ratings: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pm-modi-tops-list-of-most-popular-global-leader-with-78-rating-survey-3752591 https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pm-modi-tops-list-of-most-po...
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    I don't really care what the people of India think, I'm just stating what this makes me think. I think I speak for most of the developed world when I say actions like this make the man look like a despot, and make us think less of India as a whole if they are OK with it.
    - MPlus88 4y ago
      There is A LOT of dirty little things you don't know about India. And it is not just the usual oppression of the Dalits and Muslims. I will talk about it in due time.
dang 4y ago
Recent and related: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34787782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34787782 - Feb 2023 (374 comments)
fwungy 4y ago
Piss off the government and they'll mess with you. Look how they did Trump and his cronies.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
screye 4y ago
How is every HN thread about India/Modi such a crapshoot ? Is no one willing to entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe, Modi is par-for-the-course among leaders in the sub-continent ? Modi seems to be called an authoritarian more often than actual authoritarians. It is fair to criticize Modi for divisive politics & hard nationalism, but he is very much a democratic leader. The party has accepted any defeat graciously and within the bounds of what's permissible within the system. If anything, compared to the Gandhi family leaders that came before him, Modi has been remarkably non-authoritarian. (Doesn't mean that he meets the requirement for an ideal ethnical democratic leader, but then who does?) Multiple things can be true at the same time. Modi's response to the Gujarat riots was incompetent enough that it will remain a black mark on his legacy irrespective of what he achieves afterwards. At the same time, the BBC seems to have timed this documentary curiously close to the Sunak's rise as the new conversative leader, and therefore the new target of the UK's left leaning media houses. Especially because the documentary does not seem to bring any new facts to light. I personally find the documentary and the west's general approach to Hindus (and right wing politicians everywhere) to be a little hypocritical. Hindus (and Indic peoples) have been persecuted for a good few decades in every neighboring Muslim country. Indian law privileges minorities more than any other country in the world. Modi's policies plus statistics seem to indicate no particular deviation in terms of treatment of minorities as compared to prior govts. If anything, his poor-first effective socialism policies help the poorest in society first, and Muslims being the most underprivileged, benefit immensely. India is a better country to be a Shia Muslim in than the neighboring Muslim nations, and that speaks volumes about the tolerance and freedom that underlies Indian and Hindu-majority society. The criticism of Modi is welcome, but it does seem especially slanted. Modi has the distinction of being one of the only major world leaders to be banned [1] from the US, all while people with proven-genocide records continued to welcomed in this country. Modi gets called a right winger despite being more socialist than most anglo-phone leaders. Policies widely supported by the west are considered authoritarian (ex: farm bill) the second any group protests against Modi. The most annoying thing is that Modi has a lot of problems. His economics involves too many freebies. He has no spine, and will recall great policies the second any small group in India complains. He relies too much on the infamous Indian bureaucracy & he has yet to find spiritual successors to close confidants that have passed away due to unfortunate situations (Swaraj, Jaitley) The English-media continues polarizing Modi on elite-urban-left vs Hindu-nationalist grounds, and he keeps playing into those tropes. That's because Indians are nationalists [2] irrespective of religion & Hindus still perceive themselves as 2nd class citizens in their own nation. The removal of article 370 was a massively popular move. Making fun of his English, religiousness and lack of elite-manners only feeds into his humble everyman image. You are feeding him easy wins. If only the Indian opposition was competent enough put forth a competent leader. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_people_banned_from_entering_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_people_banned_... [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/nationalism-and-politics/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/nationalism-...
throwaway20231 4y ago
Having to create a throwaway account as the last time I commented using my real username, someone from the Indian government looked me up and followed my Linkedin activity. India is on a path to being a totalitarian state. One that will normalize ethnic cleansing of minorities, "re-education" of those who can't be eliminated and a state that strips away your fundamental rights especially if you belong to the minority. The short term India is busy growing its nationalistic ambitions at all cost. The long term India is Akhand Bharat which will attempt consolidate Pakistan (even at the cost of nuclear war), Bangladesh and Nepal all into a single country.
known 4y ago
[dead]
amriksohata 4y ago
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/indian-authorities-accuse-bbc-tax-evasion-after-searches-97284597 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/indian-authorities...
known 4y ago
[dead]

251 points by sorokod 4y ago

Sure, that'll stop a global news agency from reporting on you.

Are we talking about this BBC? BBC TV licence goons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jljn8YI1_GQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jljn8YI1_GQ Perhaps the British police could be used to crack down on the grooming gangs.

sorokod 4y ago

The Modi Question on Peertube: https://peertube.tv/search?search=The%20Modi%20Question%20&searchTarget=local https://peertube.tv/search?search=The%20Modi%20Question%20&s...

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
When will it be available legally in the U.S.?
- ridiculous_leke 4y ago
  I wonder what's holding the release in the US?
  - _23sd 4y ago
    BBC doesn't release most of their documentaries in the US. I wouldn't assume there are any plans being held up, it's just too niche for any US distributors to bother. Maybe the interest due to India trying to ban it will change that...
    - zakember 4y ago
      I never understood the Indian ban. Aren't BBC documentaries available in the UK only anyways? Indian residents couldn't have accessed it without a VPN anyways.
      - rhaway84773 4y ago
        It’s the result of a thin skinned paranoid government ruling the country. There was gonna be absolutely no impact whatsoever if they had just kept quiet and not said a thing. Instead their touchiness has meant that this has become a much bigger deal and is actually impacting their favorability negatively, at least anecdotally.
        mrguyorama 4y ago
        It's so pathetic how thin skinned this "strong"men are. Oh, you think I bear a nearly non-existent resemblance to a much loved storybook bear? Off to """reeducation""" camps with you! You make a milquetoast documentary about things I did a decade ago that were pretty bad, GTFO! "No you're a puppet, you are you are" It's just pathetic. How does anyone look at these people and think they are strong?
      - manquer 4y ago
        Hardly only the UK, BBC world and many other divisions like the recently shuttered BBC Arabic focused on content and distribution primarily in commonwealth or emerging countries . iplayer is how you get free access in the UK to BBC because residents pay the TV tax for it . Rest of the world you pay for it in some way as part of cable deal , subscriptions etc, or BBC decides to make it free or ad supported . —— Keep in mind BBC is no different than aljazeera it is state sponsored and is import part of soft power toolkit of the UK government uses this doesn’t mean they are wrong or biased in anyway on the Modi documentary nothing in it is new or not widely known , for example until he became PM he was blocked from getting a U.S. visa for his role in the riots . BBC content can be good like aljazeera (especially for non Qatari /ME content) can be but the inherent politics of it cannot be forgotten or ignored
    - 4y ago
  - LordAtlas 4y ago
    It was posted on YouTube but our authoritarian thin-skinned Prime Minister issued orders to Google to take it down.
    - whatshisface 4y ago
      Why does the prime minister of a country I don't live in get to take videos down from servers hosted in the country I do?
- FlyingSnake 4y ago
  It is legally available on the internet
teddyh 4y ago
Also: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:f80de3863cbfaa6465fdec1b80777b7aa144c58d magnet:?xt=urn:btih:41fb7b407b2c00393da307838729538be9ce68e0 magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3c378a82cf67a1107523ca6c647077403a1ef74d
- teddyh 4y ago
  (Allegedly, that is.)

formerly_proven 4y ago

The raiding will improve until m̶o̶r̶a̶l̶e̶ reporting improves.

coolspot 4y ago
Worked in Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTV_(Russia)#Change_of_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTV_(Russia)#Change_of_managem...
- AzzieElbab 4y ago
  I know nothing about India’s politics but Russia’s legal system is explicitly structured in the way that makes you break laws every step of the way so that law enforcement can be applied selectively

AlbertCory 4y ago

[flagged]

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> BBC seems to have taken up a role as the anti-Modi network Could you point to prominent sources making this claim? > if it was also aimed at China The BBC created diplomatic chaos between Downing Street and Beijing with their Xinjiang coverage [1][2]. I'm not sure why you think their coverage of Russia or Pakistan has been any less scathing. > pointing to something Modi-positive they've ever run See the BBC's coverage of his anti-poverty [3] and climate [4] work. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07g39mt https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07g39mt [2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000btl7 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000btl7 [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-41397022 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-41397022 [4] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-40144613 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-40144613
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > the existence of the video itself is the claim They made a video critical of Modi, herego the entire BBC has an anti-Modi bias? Yet when the BBC puts out content critical of Xi or Putin or Erdogan, it's not comparable?
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  [3] and [4[ are the same. Even have the same URL. And you didn't mention any of those other countries I named. Apparently it's too hard to them to write about them, or else "brutal oppression" isn't news to their viewers.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > [3] and [4[ are the same. Even have the same URL Fixed. > you didn't mention any of those other countries I named BBC's exposé on the Uyghurs was a big deal. That you missed it, along with apparently their take on the Ukraine war, should be a nudge to look yourself.

2Gkashmiri 4y ago

[flagged]

brucethemoose2 4y ago

There was a great post from a VPN provider about how they've honed circumvention tactics in China for years, and that whatever Russia was doing post-Ukraine was just primitive in comparison. If India really tries to go down the internet censorship rabbit hole, its probably not gonna go well, as they are decades behind more seasoned despotic regimes.

jonny_eh 4y ago
They're not competing with anyone here, so why does it matter that China's censorship mechanism are superior?
- brucethemoose2 4y ago
  Oh but they are competing. The circumventors get access to tools and methods developed for those other countries, the global circumvention market if you will. But the Indian government is not getting China's or Russia's censorship experience.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  Because tools developed for China could be used in India and it would take them awhile to reach the levels China which isn't effective
  - jonny_eh 4y ago
    Aren't China and India political enemies? I find it hard to imagine the Indian govt procuring core information technology from China.
causi 4y ago
Is that significant, though? These nations aren't trying to keep things secret. They just have to keep them out of the day to day thoughts of 95% of their population. Even trivial measures like a DNS-redirect will be effective in that regard.
- 4y ago

amriksohata 4y ago

[flagged]

22SAS 4y ago

[flagged]

sbmyft 4y ago

[flagged]

zakember 4y ago
> Why should a British funded propaganda machine be even allowed in a foreign country? Same reason why any other foreign website is allowed in India or why other countries watch Bollywood movies. Globalization is a win-win for everyone. No country in the world is self-sustaining.
- mikymoothrowa 4y ago
  every sentence of this is wrong. There are several foreign channels that are banned in India including Al Jazeera and for very good reasons. Plus, I’m sure the West doesn’t get Russia Today or CCTV right now. nor India’s DD
  - webartisan 4y ago
    There’s little one can do if some in the country are hell bent on putting their heads in sands like an ostrich. Doesn’t change the truth, unfortunately. As for Al Jazeera and other channels you mentioned, they can be watched online – unlike the Modi documentary.
    - realce 4y ago
      [flagged]
  - zakember 4y ago
    > There are several foreign channels that are banned in India including Al Jazeera and for very good reasons. Al Jazeera isn't banned. In fact it is a free channel on most cable network providers > Plus, I’m sure the West doesn’t get Russia Today or CCTV right now. nor India’s DD Actually DD is also available in US, just like WION (another Indian news channel)

AlbertCory 4y ago

[flagged]

rhaway84773 4y ago
Which is still no reason to blatantly try and suppress their legal and democratic rights. And anyways, at this point this has nothing to do with thr BBC. This is the BJP telling every other news agency in India, a year before the 2024 general elections, that if they dare publish anything the ruling party doesn’t like, they will use the entire power of the state to make the publishing entity’s life miserable. If you want to understand why the BJP would risk the Streisand effect, it’s not because they are incompetent. It’s because this is a very deliberate and calculated message to every other press outlet in India to not mess with the BJP in the months before the election.

InTheArena 4y ago

India is increasingly going down the slippery slope of repression that we have seen frequently in countries about 5-10 years before they lose their collective minds, and everyone wonders when the state "went bad".

mikymoothrowa 4y ago
[flagged]
- shadowfox 4y ago
  > India is much more robust democratically. Out of curiosity, why do you think that is the case?
  - rusticpenn 4y ago
    I would agree, many Indians, the democratic majority support this.
    - 01acheru 4y ago
      The fact that you agree doesn't make it correct, and there is no such thing as "democratic majority" in supporting something without a proof. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
      - rusticpenn 4y ago
        I am sorry if you missed my sarcasm.
  - 01acheru 4y ago
    They are probably Indian and feel it a lot.
  - sfifs 4y ago
    Not OP but Many many instances of corrupt leaders or leaders with unpopular policies/poor governance being thrown out of power in elections peacefully. If anything, the fatalism & inability of Americans to change their political establishment tends to be puzzling for us.

0xDEF 4y ago

The reason the Indian government is afraid is because they know the secular Southern India will secede if they found out they're ruled by a religious North Indian madman who killed 750-2000 Muslims. Before this documentary the 2002 Gujarat events were largely brushed aside as ordinary 3rd world sectarian violence but the BBC documentary shows that Modi personally orchestrated the whole thing. The complete balkanization of India is about to happen and I don't think the rest of the world will be able to cope with the number of refugees.

selimthegrim 4y ago
What did Vajpayee and Congress do during https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_massacre
travisporter 4y ago
You’re effectively saying a civil war is about to erupt?
sjnonweb 4y ago
Complete balkanization of India? You don't know what you are talking about do you?
- MPlus88 4y ago
  Until the British arrived the subcontinent was a mishmash of thousands of fiefdoms that were at each other's throat. That looks balkanization to me.
  - sjnonweb 4y ago
    You need to read a little more history then! India's history goes much further than that. Read up on The Maurya Empire
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

benbristow 4y ago

So the Indian government have got all the time in the world to raid offices over tax but don't do anything over scam call centres scamming innocent victims all over the world.

tyingq 4y ago
I see that, but for calls going to the US, the US could actually implement STIR/SHAKEN and other measures to quell it...but they drag their feet.
- londons_explore 4y ago
  I feel like the US is in a position to simply have some police deliberately fall for these scams, then wire over the $25k as the scammer instructs, then trace that money as far as the indian border, then demand the indian government repay it. The indian government can continue tracing and find the scammer to get their money back (hard), or just shut down the call centers (easier). Yes, I know this isn't the way international disputes work right now. But I think the US is in a position to make demands like this, with the threat that US borders will be closed to indian nationals, goods and investment unless india pays up. Repeat however many times are necessary to solve the problem.
  - LarryMullins 4y ago
    Hit them where it hurts: Ban all family members of anybody in Indian government from entering the US for any reason. Not for school, nor a job, nor even a short vacation to visit other family members. Limit this ban to Indian politicians and their family members; most Indians should be unaffected.
    - telotortium 4y ago
      Step 1 on the (very short) path to making the US dollar permanently lose its influence. Unless India starts invading Pakistan for conquest or population destruction, sanctions even on Indian politicians and their families go way too far (not to mention some of those sanctioned people would likely be top business leaders as well). The US is already testing its limits trying to go against Russia and China simultaneously. Economic warfare (for that is what sanctions effectively are) against India as well would be catastrophic.

nocababges 4y ago

on a flip side what is the point of releasing it now vs before, seems some malice intent on part of BBC. Indian Supreme Court already aquitted Modi of the Riots in 2012.

rhaway84773 4y ago
There is no flip side. One action is democratic, the other isn’t. But to answer your question, the documentary and its timing is the result of a UK report created by the UK consulate after the riots was made public within the last year or so because UK law requires such documents to be made public after a certain amount of time. Finally, Modi being acquitted in an Indian court of law doesn’t mean innocence. Even ignoring any questions of corruption, etc, India does not have one of those legal systems which decides whether a defendant is guilty or innocent. India’s court system only decides whether someone can be proven guilty. An acquittal simply means that one cannot be proven guilty, not that they are innocent. The not guilty verdict can also be the result of a lack of evidence (which was the case in this situation), or due to procedural mistakes, etc. which may lead to an acquittal even if someone is guilty.
anaganisk 4y ago
Supreme court or a local mobile court, all function based on evidence. And evidence can be tampered. And dont tell me in India people dont say "If he has money/power he will be free". Courts dont investigate. They listen to what prosecution has to provide, if prosecustion has new evidence decades later, the acquital can be oveturned. Doesnt mean someone is innocent forever. Its not a certificate of innocence.
- nocababges 4y ago
  So you will trust BBC propaganda more than Supreme Court. right on.
  - anaganisk 4y ago
    You do realise that you are literally turning gears in your head to come up with some witty line but end up justifying my comment yourself without even trying to understand what I said. If the BBC documentary can provide new evidence or some common person comes up with new evidence, they can literally repoen the case, and who knows may be the accusations may be found with a guilty verdict. There are several cases that have been re-opened, and verdicts reversed decades later. Supreme court giving a clean chit doesn't mean a permanent certificate of innocence. It just means evidence was not strong by prosecution during the trial.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

walthamstow 4y ago

I think we're getting a lot of highly-upvoted semi-controversial news posts at the moment. It's not what I come to HN for, in fact the lack of news is one of the reasons I come here.

0xDEF 4y ago
https://lobste.rs https://lobste.rs is your friend.

blobbers 4y ago

Let's raid the foreign news. That'll go over well with the international community and foreign investors. We can build trust if we just make sure the journalists pay their taxes.

sjnonweb 4y ago

Propaganda against India is pretty strong these days

01acheru 4y ago
Indian propaganda is pretty strong these days.
- sjnonweb 4y ago
  Like what?
  - 01acheru 4y ago
    Like all those outraged Indian nationalists that pop up in flocks anywhere and every time there is a news outlet that goes against Indian nationalist propaganda and big boss Modi?
    - sjnonweb 4y ago
      Well its bound to happens when the said news outlet forgets to show the other side of the story, selectively missing on the nuance. I'm no fan of Modi, No fan of half truths either.
      - 01acheru 4y ago
        Please reply to the sibling, I would make the same point. You seem to be overreacting, just not as much as the others.
luuurker 4y ago
It seems that "these days" every criticism is propaganda. It doesn't matter if the points are valid or not or if they're describing something that it's happening. "Propaganda!" It's very sad to see people everywhere turning off their brains just because their government was criticised.

satya71 4y ago

This is the favored tactic of Indian government when trying to intimidate the press (or politicians). [1] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/it-raids-on-dainik-bhaskar-group/article35458142.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/it-raids...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
WeylandYutani 4y ago
It is interesting that it took Western media to blow the whistle. You could write books about everything that is wrong with my country (many people do) but independent journalism is sacrosanct.
- adventured 4y ago
  It's identical to the Western response to the Iranian government murdering many thousands of their people (who were protesting) prior to the pandemic. Versus the response to the Khashoggi murder by the Saudis. Both reprehensible regimes, the media treated one death as being particularly special. Going by the massive coverage of Khashoggi, you'd get the impression thousands of murders is less important than one, and you'd be right re the Western media's obvious bias (they dislike Saudi Arabia more than Iran, and Khashoggi was one of their own).
  - imbiased 4y ago
    The Iranian government was already known to be terrible to its people. The Saudis ordering an assassination _abroad, using their embassy, in such a violent way on a dissident_ made a lot of people aware of the problem that was the new Saudi regime which had some Western alignment. It’s not that this death was more important, it’s just revealed a big change in Saudi Arabia
    - adventured 4y ago
      Which ignores the vast gap between coverage in the one murder vs the thousands of murders. The bias was on open display, and it's a perceived political alignment issue (Saudi Arabia is quite friendly with US conservatives traditionally and far more hostile to US liberals; ~95%+ of journalists in the US vote left and they're rarely shy with their bias in the Trump era; Saudi was relatively friendly toward Trump and it's openly hostile toward Biden; all of this is quite obvious).

yalogin 4y ago

Because this is BBC the government is forced to stop at intimidation and using legal means too. There are simply way too many global eyes on the incident. Prior to this government, the media was largely free to do anything they want. Modi seems to have taken the additional step to thwart any negative reporting. This is just terrible for the country. Not surprising given his overall approach to governing

net-ghost 4y ago

In the terms of USA, BBC is a foreign agent as long as India is concerned. source: https://fair.org/home/foreign-agents-designation-causes-media-cold-war/ https://fair.org/home/foreign-agents-designation-causes-medi...

fleddr 4y ago

Isn't it impressive how incompetent authoritarian regimes are? I mean, India has a great thing going. Geopolitically, it's exempt from bans on trading with Russia, so it can play both sides and get away with it. It has build up a vast services industry as the "back office of the world", a major driver of economic prosperity. It's likely the main beneficiary of re-shoring manufacturing out of China. In this position, quite literally the dumbest thing you can do is to attract international attention by attacking a western institute like the BBC. You weaken your position in geopolitics. You scare investors. You don't realize how unlike manufacturing, services are extremely easy to move to another country. And why even start manufacturing in this regime, when plenty of saner countries are nearby? You want to gamble with all of that, for what? A BBC report that does nothing. Give it no attention and everything stays exactly the same.

busterarm 4y ago
Let's be real, the beneficiaries of re-shoring manufacturing were always going to be the countries that used to do it before China became the cheaper option. Namely: Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Korea, Japan.
- rnk 4y ago
  I don't think that's right, apple moving some iPhone and other production to India is a big deal. But it's not going to be easy because of all the production lines and parts that are made by other companies in China and the built up expertise. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/sep/27/apple-shifts-some-iphone-14-production-from-china-to-india https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/sep/27/apple-shi...
  - busterarm 4y ago
    No country is going to benefit from just one company moving their production there. Focusing on just Apple is blowing things out of proportion. A lot of India's electronics manufacturing at the moment is still limited to recycling (e.g, Sony Trinitron CRTs)

throwway1922 4y ago

Lets be honest. Usually people used to make fun of me as an ex-Indian living in the West telling that the west is doomed because of Iraq, Bush, Trump etc. Schadenfreude: it seems India are ready to dig themselves into a hole. This should benefit the West on the long run.

rhyminggpt 4y ago

India has long been a land of thugs: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/44881/44881-h/44881-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/44881/44881-h/44881-h.htm

rajup 4y ago
Wow. Racist dog whistles in HackerNews. Sad to say I’m not surprised.

babypuncher 4y ago

Attacking the press is never a good look in my book. Without even having seen the documentary, this convinces me that Modi is guilty of anything it accuses him of.

frontman1988 4y ago
It doesn't matter what you think. Modi is hugely popular in India and won with a very strong mandate. Countering attempts of brainwashing by the former colonialists only makes Modi more of a hero to the locals. There is a reason Modi is taking up this fight, he could have choosen to ignore the bait. But it actually helps drive support for him in India. And it really shows in the latest approval ratings: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pm-modi-tops-list-of-most-popular-global-leader-with-78-rating-survey-3752591 https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pm-modi-tops-list-of-most-po...
- babypuncher 4y ago
  I don't really care what the people of India think, I'm just stating what this makes me think. I think I speak for most of the developed world when I say actions like this make the man look like a despot, and make us think less of India as a whole if they are OK with it.
  - MPlus88 4y ago
    There is A LOT of dirty little things you don't know about India. And it is not just the usual oppression of the Dalits and Muslims. I will talk about it in due time.

dang 4y ago

Recent and related: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34787782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34787782 - Feb 2023 (374 comments)

fwungy 4y ago

Piss off the government and they'll mess with you. Look how they did Trump and his cronies.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

screye 4y ago

How is every HN thread about India/Modi such a crapshoot ? Is no one willing to entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe, Modi is par-for-the-course among leaders in the sub-continent ? Modi seems to be called an authoritarian more often than actual authoritarians. It is fair to criticize Modi for divisive politics & hard nationalism, but he is very much a democratic leader. The party has accepted any defeat graciously and within the bounds of what's permissible within the system. If anything, compared to the Gandhi family leaders that came before him, Modi has been remarkably non-authoritarian. (Doesn't mean that he meets the requirement for an ideal ethnical democratic leader, but then who does?) Multiple things can be true at the same time. Modi's response to the Gujarat riots was incompetent enough that it will remain a black mark on his legacy irrespective of what he achieves afterwards. At the same time, the BBC seems to have timed this documentary curiously close to the Sunak's rise as the new conversative leader, and therefore the new target of the UK's left leaning media houses. Especially because the documentary does not seem to bring any new facts to light. I personally find the documentary and the west's general approach to Hindus (and right wing politicians everywhere) to be a little hypocritical. Hindus (and Indic peoples) have been persecuted for a good few decades in every neighboring Muslim country. Indian law privileges minorities more than any other country in the world. Modi's policies plus statistics seem to indicate no particular deviation in terms of treatment of minorities as compared to prior govts. If anything, his poor-first effective socialism policies help the poorest in society first, and Muslims being the most underprivileged, benefit immensely. India is a better country to be a Shia Muslim in than the neighboring Muslim nations, and that speaks volumes about the tolerance and freedom that underlies Indian and Hindu-majority society. The criticism of Modi is welcome, but it does seem especially slanted. Modi has the distinction of being one of the only major world leaders to be banned [1] from the US, all while people with proven-genocide records continued to welcomed in this country. Modi gets called a right winger despite being more socialist than most anglo-phone leaders. Policies widely supported by the west are considered authoritarian (ex: farm bill) the second any group protests against Modi. The most annoying thing is that Modi has a lot of problems. His economics involves too many freebies. He has no spine, and will recall great policies the second any small group in India complains. He relies too much on the infamous Indian bureaucracy & he has yet to find spiritual successors to close confidants that have passed away due to unfortunate situations (Swaraj, Jaitley) The English-media continues polarizing Modi on elite-urban-left vs Hindu-nationalist grounds, and he keeps playing into those tropes. That's because Indians are nationalists [2] irrespective of religion & Hindus still perceive themselves as 2nd class citizens in their own nation. The removal of article 370 was a massively popular move. Making fun of his English, religiousness and lack of elite-manners only feeds into his humble everyman image. You are feeding him easy wins. If only the Indian opposition was competent enough put forth a competent leader. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_people_banned_from_entering_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_people_banned_... [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/nationalism-and-politics/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/nationalism-...

throwaway20231 4y ago

Having to create a throwaway account as the last time I commented using my real username, someone from the Indian government looked me up and followed my Linkedin activity. India is on a path to being a totalitarian state. One that will normalize ethnic cleansing of minorities, "re-education" of those who can't be eliminated and a state that strips away your fundamental rights especially if you belong to the minority. The short term India is busy growing its nationalistic ambitions at all cost. The long term India is Akhand Bharat which will attempt consolidate Pakistan (even at the cost of nuclear war), Bangladesh and Nepal all into a single country.

known 4y ago

[dead]

amriksohata 4y ago

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/indian-authorities-accuse-bbc-tax-evasion-after-searches-97284597 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/indian-authorities...

known 4y ago

[dead]