8 ms·
My observation is that recent layoffs affect engineers with different seniority very differently. Senior devs I know who got laid off are just enjoying their t
by dixie_land 4y ago
My observation is that recent layoffs affect engineers with different seniority very differently.
Senior devs I know who got laid off are just enjoying their time off (with pay! if you consider the severance) after the rocketing market in 2021 (and maybe even H1 22) made them whole and financially secure. And they won't be entertaining a startup unless significant equity or big leveling up (eg Principal or Director).
On the other hand, fresh grads who got laid off are in such a panic mode (esp those on visa) they'd be willing to take anything.
- ryandrake 4y agoFurthermore, some very senior employees are in this boat: They kinda have enough savings to just retire, but were hanging on to their jobs to save maybe 10% more or whatever. Now that they're out of a job they are simply saying "Whelllp, I guess I'm now retired." and not really feeling the need to look anymore. I know someone who refused a forced return to office, and when his company tried to call his bluff, he just said "I guess I'm retired now!"
- timtas 4y agoMoreover, the typical interview process is so ridiculously energy sapping (and poorly predictive), many of us senior devs are just done with it. When I bail (or get axed) I’m gonna just do some indie hacking or maybe scratch up some 1099 work.
- ghaff 4y agoI've definitely seen some of that. Drag their feet through another vesting event. Maybe see if they can snag a severance package.
- georgeecollins 4y ago>> were hanging on to their jobs to save maybe 10% more or whatever The amount of wealth all people need is constant. It is 1.5 x whatever they have today.
- badpun 4y agoCrap, this fits me exactly.
- zwkrt 4y agoQuite a broad generalization. Sounds like people who don't have an actual plan for their money other than to have more of it. The kind of person who retires and realizes they don't even know what to do now that they aren't striving for that $$$.
- klodolph 4y agoSure, there are all kinds of people with all sorts of ideas about what retirement will be like. And from my observations, more often than not, two people with different ideas about retirement will get married to each other. Different ideas about retirement—such as retiring with different amounts of security, different standards of living, different amounts of money donated to charity, different locations, downsizing or not downsizing the house, living in the countryside or the city, traveling a lot or a little, etc. My impression as someone who’s not retired is that you are signing up for a new relationship with your partner once you retire, and it’s hard to know what that new relationship will be like.
- away271828 4y agoI don't know. It's a big and somewhat irreversible decision from a pay and career perspective. I can certainly see people hesitate to make the plunge and maybe stretch things out a bit further even though they're pretty sure they're fine finacially.
- sulam 4y agoIrreversible? If Tom Brady can come out retirement your typical tech worker will surely find it possible.
- ghaff 4y agoI think it sort of is unless someone is a real name that lots of companies would fall over themselves to hire. For most tech workers--not limited to developers--if you decide to hang up your cleats in your late 50s or 60s, it's probably going to be difficult to change your mind a couple of years later. Part-time consulting is probably easier though. (Probably less so at the moment.)
- cwkoss 4y agoFWIW in my experience the first retirement never sticks for these folks.
- yellowapple 4y agoSounds like my grandpa. He retired from the US Air Force when he got passed up for a colonel->general promotion... only to eventually become a high school teacher. He's since retired again, though with the multiple volunteer jobs he's doing it doesn't really feel like it lol
- metadaemon 4y agoI guess if you are used to the security (or lack thereof) and coast-ability of large tech companies, you might be inclined to stick to the big names. However, I've recently discovered how fulfilling startup work is. Ironically, I feel more secure in my current role at a startup than I ever did at big tech. That's thanks a lot to the industry I'm in, but regardless senior devs are missing a lot if they completely discount startup roles.
- Yoric 4y agoHappy for you. Unfortunately, with VC money currently drying off, I know of many startups that are laying off. And I'm not talking about 10% of workforce layoffs, but more around 30%.
- timr 4y agoJust a word of advice for readers who are working at a startup: you will never be wrong by getting as close to the money as possible. If you are at a startup and working on support tools or platform infrastructure or whatever, maybe you're indispensable. But you'd still be better off if you were doing support tools or platform infrastructure that involves revenue. (The obvious corollary is that if you work at a startup that doesn't make money, you should find a way to make money, or move to a startup that does make money. I feel like a lot of engineers don't know this.)
- Yoric 4y agoI can testify to that. Of course, your team can be considered strategic one day, then disbanded the next.
- mywittyname 4y agoI've definitely seen some "strategic" people being shown the door over the past few rounds of layoffs, and at least two boomerangs (laid off, then rehired). These are very confusing times.
- giantg2 4y ago"they'd be willing to take anything." That would apply to me too. I have 10 years in the industry but have been underpaid and have a family. My current plan if I get fired is to work at Walmart or Lowes until I can find another job.
- sumeno 4y agoIf you're underpaid and employed the now is the time to look for that new job, not after you're fired and working at Walmart
- giantg2 4y agoI was underpaid. Now my skills have atrophied to match my low pay. Only about 17 years until I can "retire". I'll probably end up working at Walmart in retirement anyways.
- chaoticmass 4y agoHate to say it, but this fits me a lot right now (sans the family part). I really need to skill-up and start looking for a new gig.
- sharemywin 4y agopretty sure unemployment pays better than walmart.
- giantg2 4y agoIf you're fired, unemployment doesn't pay you anything. My company generally won't layoff and instead finds reasons to fire people.
- thetopher 4y agoThis isn’t true in California, and I don’t think it’s generally true in other states either. A fired employee is still eligible for unemployment as long as they were not fired because of specific misconduct. Poor performance does not constitute misconduct. Misconduct must be “willful and wanton.” (Regularly missing work or being late, stealing, fighting with coworkers, etc.) The CA guidelines are long, but contain some useful examples and guiding principles: https://edd.ca.gov/en/uibdg/Misconduct_MC_5/ https://edd.ca.gov/en/uibdg/Misconduct_MC_5/
- rcarmo 4y agoThat feels like a very US thing to assume. EU layoffs have different contexts.