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Reminds me of a time in 1999 when a US Air crew at Rhode Island refused to takeoff in the fog when the controller insisted it was okay. Another aircraft had lan

Reminds me of a time in 1999 when a US Air crew at Rhode Island refused to takeoff in the fog when the controller insisted it was okay. Another aircraft had landed and was lost in the fog about their location, even saying they were on on an active runway and even said an aircraft just took off (over them). Animation + text here if curious: https://youtu.be/qUDFY5qlTSA https://youtu.be/qUDFY5qlTSA

bagels 4y ago
That one is pretty infuriating to listen to!
- the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
  The full version is worse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7AP-8uZWxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7AP-8uZWxA
  - doctor_eval 4y ago
    That’s horrifying. The controller completely ignores all the information and clears the USAir plane to take off, twice. But the crew knew there was a plane on the runway and refused, twice. Incredible. Well, I guess the Swiss cheese worked.
Dalewyn 4y ago
One of my acquaintances used to be an ATC (air traffic controller) and has many pilot friends from back then. They all say the same thing whenever they talk about the most important thing in aviation: Have the courage to not take off. Kudos to that US Airways captain for refusing to takeoff and stay put until everyone got on the same page.
- catminou 4y ago
  And the first officer too. It's a team effort and safety is the responsibility of all crew members (including the flight attendants to call out something, jumpseaters and even folks dead heading). I recall in a CRM training they asked the class what would you do if the captain wanted to take off and you thought it was unsafe. Various answers and one person said "I'd hold my feet on the brakes to prevent moving" to which the trainer said yes - that's the right answer.
- sitkack 4y ago
  > Have the courage to not take off. So many tragedies could have been averted if people just sat the fck down. If shit doesn't feel right, just chill until it does.
  - kqr 4y ago
    Don't just do something, stand there! is my favourite exhortation. If I ran my own company, I would have it plastered all over the office.
  - AdamN 4y ago
    The corollary if you're already aloft is to "fly the damn plane". Everything else comes second.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      “Never drop the plane to fly the radio.”
      - AdamN 4y ago
        "Aviate, navigate, communicate" ... in that order
- kqr 4y ago
  Another common thing I hear is about having the courage not to land. It's almost as if the dangerous part is low-altitude maneuvering!
  - imoverclocked 4y ago
    Yup, an approach is a go-around with the option of landing. (Thanks Juan Brown) However, landing is eventually assured.
    - Aeolun 4y ago
      Well, reaching the ground is. Whether or not you can call it landing is a different question.
      - zamfi 4y ago
        "If you can walk away from a landing, it's a good landing. If you use the airplane the next day, it's an outstanding landing." Chuck Yeagar
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  > Have the courage to not take off. As the old old saying goes, better to be down here wishing you were up there than up there wishing you were down here.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    The four most useless things to a pilot are: the fuel in the fuel truck, the altitude above you, the runway behind you, and a tenth of a second ago.
    - Gordonjcp 4y ago
      You're flying the plane until it has stopped moving. Every last piece of it. or: You're flying the plane until you take the key out of the ignition. Doesn't matter how deep a hole you need to dig to get it.
- duxup 4y ago
  Also “you can always go around”.
JuniorBalleg 4y ago
[flagged]
- Boltgolt 4y ago
  This comment started off well and then just took a nose dive at the end all of a sudden
astura 4y ago
And OF COURSE the first YouTube comment I read blames this on Affirmative Action... JEEZ
- blantonl 4y ago
  believe it or not, this controller is a known problem child in the ATC world and has been shuttled around to multiple facilities all the while filing EO complaints against the FAA any time he was in trouble for anything.
  - CrackpotGonzo 4y ago
    Source?
    - rodface 4y ago
      The source is a Reddit thread, the veracity of the comments is up to you. https://tinyurl.com/redditlinknoswearword https://tinyurl.com/redditlinknoswearword Adding comment text in case of deletion: "This is the problem right here. You have a controller who, according to everyone who has worked with him from the last facility where he washed out and now AUS, say has no business being a controller and they can't fire him because he files EEO complaints habitually. And yet you have people trying to push another agenda entirely with the 6 day work weeks and fatigue, which this event has nothing to do with."

bagels 4y ago

That one is pretty infuriating to listen to!

the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
The full version is worse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7AP-8uZWxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7AP-8uZWxA
- doctor_eval 4y ago
  That’s horrifying. The controller completely ignores all the information and clears the USAir plane to take off, twice. But the crew knew there was a plane on the runway and refused, twice. Incredible. Well, I guess the Swiss cheese worked.

Dalewyn 4y ago

One of my acquaintances used to be an ATC (air traffic controller) and has many pilot friends from back then. They all say the same thing whenever they talk about the most important thing in aviation: Have the courage to not take off. Kudos to that US Airways captain for refusing to takeoff and stay put until everyone got on the same page.

catminou 4y ago
And the first officer too. It's a team effort and safety is the responsibility of all crew members (including the flight attendants to call out something, jumpseaters and even folks dead heading). I recall in a CRM training they asked the class what would you do if the captain wanted to take off and you thought it was unsafe. Various answers and one person said "I'd hold my feet on the brakes to prevent moving" to which the trainer said yes - that's the right answer.
sitkack 4y ago
> Have the courage to not take off. So many tragedies could have been averted if people just sat the fck down. If shit doesn't feel right, just chill until it does.
- kqr 4y ago
  Don't just do something, stand there! is my favourite exhortation. If I ran my own company, I would have it plastered all over the office.
- AdamN 4y ago
  The corollary if you're already aloft is to "fly the damn plane". Everything else comes second.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    “Never drop the plane to fly the radio.”
    - AdamN 4y ago
      "Aviate, navigate, communicate" ... in that order
kqr 4y ago
Another common thing I hear is about having the courage not to land. It's almost as if the dangerous part is low-altitude maneuvering!
- imoverclocked 4y ago
  Yup, an approach is a go-around with the option of landing. (Thanks Juan Brown) However, landing is eventually assured.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    Well, reaching the ground is. Whether or not you can call it landing is a different question.
    - zamfi 4y ago
      "If you can walk away from a landing, it's a good landing. If you use the airplane the next day, it's an outstanding landing." Chuck Yeagar
Gordonjcp 4y ago
> Have the courage to not take off. As the old old saying goes, better to be down here wishing you were up there than up there wishing you were down here.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The four most useless things to a pilot are: the fuel in the fuel truck, the altitude above you, the runway behind you, and a tenth of a second ago.
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    You're flying the plane until it has stopped moving. Every last piece of it. or: You're flying the plane until you take the key out of the ignition. Doesn't matter how deep a hole you need to dig to get it.
duxup 4y ago
Also “you can always go around”.

JuniorBalleg 4y ago

[flagged]

Boltgolt 4y ago
This comment started off well and then just took a nose dive at the end all of a sudden

astura 4y ago

And OF COURSE the first YouTube comment I read blames this on Affirmative Action... JEEZ

blantonl 4y ago
believe it or not, this controller is a known problem child in the ATC world and has been shuttled around to multiple facilities all the while filing EO complaints against the FAA any time he was in trouble for anything.
- CrackpotGonzo 4y ago
  Source?
  - rodface 4y ago
    The source is a Reddit thread, the veracity of the comments is up to you. https://tinyurl.com/redditlinknoswearword https://tinyurl.com/redditlinknoswearword Adding comment text in case of deletion: "This is the problem right here. You have a controller who, according to everyone who has worked with him from the last facility where he washed out and now AUS, say has no business being a controller and they can't fire him because he files EEO complaints habitually. And yet you have people trying to push another agenda entirely with the 6 day work weeks and fatigue, which this event has nothing to do with."