7 ms·

It's weird to talk about missing an element of human empathy regarding the topic of trans individuals, whose very existence is unacceptable to a broad swath of

It's weird to talk about missing an element of human empathy regarding the topic of trans individuals, whose very existence is unacceptable to a broad swath of the population. 40% of transgender people have attempted suicide. The public dialogue around trans lives is one of very little empathy, respect, or civility. People are on this thread casually debating whether this joke "went to far" or not, while the people who this joke was about continue to face constant ridicule, teasing, bullying, discrimination, and assault. Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? What if that joke was light-hearted, or the comedian was just making fun of people who tell those jokes? Joking about people currently experiencing trauma isn't funny.

Mizza 4y ago
Most of humanity's best art, literature, music, and comedy is about people experiencing trauma. Being able to joke amidst suffering is the very thing that makes us human. It's also a critical part of empathy itself.
- notRobot 4y ago
  These are jokes at the expense of people widely discriminated against (and in many parts of the world, outright killed). It's not funny if you're punching down on minorities. It's just fucking sad.
  - mancerayder 4y ago
    Doesn't it depend on who's in the audience? You make a joke at someone's face, you're the baddie. You make a joke in a show I specifically went to go see you for, or I clicked on your recording to watch you, it's on me. Generically and universally decrying punching down is extreme and would require spying/policing everyone to implement.
- some_furry 4y ago
  "If the person on the gallows makes a grim joke, that's gallows humor. If someone in the crowd makes a joke, that's part of the execution." Humor being about trauma is kind of a vague categorization. It's probably more insightful to drill down more specifically.
- g_delgado14 4y ago
  Dave Chappelle is a master of this. He tells jokes while also making commentary on taboo subjects. Through his jokes, he allows us to open a dialogue about something important that too-often is left untouched. In this case; this AI is not really trying to convey anything meaningful. It's just regurgitating distasteful jokes that hurt people that are currently going through a tough time.
- crote 4y ago
  I completely agree, but the key distinction here is who is writing the jokes. People experiencing trauma writing jokes about it and being able to joke about it despite the trauma can result in great material. The humor provides a shared way to process the traumatic events. However, it is very different when a third party is doing the joking - and poorly at that. It often ends up just making fun of people who are suffering - which isn't exactly good taste. It is no longer joking amidst suffering, but joking about suffering.
HDThoreaun 4y ago
> people who this joke was about This joke was about transphobes. Yes it would be ok to make a joke about 9/11 jokes not being funny while they were still digging people out of the wreckage. Transphobes aren't experiencing trauma.
ihateyouall123 4y ago
Comedian here. Yes it is and yes it can be. But live in fear all your life and help push more policy that takes away rights.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jimt1234 4y ago
  My favorite comedy has been about stereotypes in society, especially negative stereotypes. The joke isn't about the stereotype itself, or the people targeted by the stereotype, but rather the joke is on any dumb-ass who believes in that stereotype (older generations, people with closed minds, etc.) At least that's they way I've always looked at it. It's been difficult the last few years because no one wants to even acknowledge that these stereotypes exist, like any joke or mention of them is hurtful.
  - jdmtheNth 4y ago
    https://spsp.org/news-center/character-context-blog/stereotype-accuracy-one-largest-and-most-replicable-effects-all https://spsp.org/news-center/character-context-blog/stereoty...
marcusverus 4y ago
> Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? This is a good question! Who should be asking it? Comedians, or the morality police?
- freejazz 4y ago
  Okay, I'm calling the drama police on you.
temp_account_32 4y ago
Have 40% transgender people attempted suicide primarily because they are being bullied by society or because they have a mental disorder where their body doesn't match their brain and they become depressed because it is physically impossible to reconcile those differences, so they spiral into despair? Genuine question, I just don't know how to tiptoe around this in a 2023 acceptable way without asking it bluntly. Sounds like we need better medical treatment if half of people with the condition want to commit suicide, and telling people on the internet to stop bullying and putting colorful flags in your twitter profile won't suffice. Not advocating for hate, just saying that it seems the medical community delegated this whole thing to society with a note of 'please be nice and everything will sort itself out'.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- etchalon 4y ago
  People were making the "they're committing suicide because their brain is wrong so we need to fix their brain" argument about homosexuality back in the 90s. Research has pretty firmly come down on the "nah, it's society." side of things.
  - daveslash 4y ago
    If I understood temp_account_32's point correctly, the comment about the mental health was not "they're trans, therefore their brains _must_ be wired wrong", so much as it was "before they transition, they're often so distraught over their identity and who they see in the mirror, that it often causes despair and depression". I agree with you that research has pretty firmly come down on the side of "nah, it's society" for the former. I think the latter is a fair point. To pin it all on society I find to be disingenuous. Transitioning can be a healthy thing in that case. Disclaimer: am not trans, so I openly admit I may be totally ignorant and off base.
    - etchalon 4y ago
      It's not all society's fault, but research has shown that the distress and depression of being outside societal defaults is greatly lessened when support is available and acceptance wide spread.
ccn0p 4y ago
But does controlling what everyone says on the Internet help or ultimately hurt? This seems to be the crux of so many problems.
yesco 4y ago
>It's weird to talk about missing an element of human empathy regarding the topic of trans individuals, whose very existence is unacceptable to a broad swath of the population. I certainly won't deny that trans people go through a lot, but stuff like this is honestly getting hard to take seriously. It's commonly repeated but going on about their "existence" itself being denied just sounds over dramatic. I don't think trans people are any worse off than other marginalized groups but for some reason, I'm finding they receive the fiercest protections. In fact, within my own friend group, I'm pretty sure a trans joke would have far more immediate social implications now than even a joke about the holocaust. It's so over the top at this point my empathy is diminishing. > Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? What if that joke was light-hearted, or the comedian was just making fun of people who tell those jokes? It would have been poor taste but I don't think you would have received any bans from social medial for making one, that's a pretty new phenomenon.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  What even is this argument? “Your life admittedly sucks but I think you blow it out of proportion so I can’t feel empathy for you”
  - yesco 4y ago
    No, it's just that whenever they seem to be brought up in discussion aggressive "supporters" come out of the woodwork, over dramatically act like the world is ending over the smallest things and misrepresent my arguments with the most bad faith interpretation on purpose. Like you are doing now. It's hard for me to empathize with a group that increasingly looks less like a marginalized group, and more like some fanatical religion that somehow has gained an almost ridiculous amount of influence over every major institution and social media platform. And I say this as someone who was originally 100% on board. A trans person could insult my identity, race and sexuality without any consequences whatsoever, but the reverse has the potential of permanently ending my social life and livelihood. Of course as the magnitude of this disparity keeps increasing, my empathy, and sympathy would decrease along with it. If anything, I'm actually starting to become afraid of trans people, not because of their transition, but due to their incredible authority.
Teever 4y ago
> Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? "Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." Do you think its possible that someone doing that digging told a terrible joke when they were doing that digging? Would it be funny if a trans person was the one telling the joke?
- freejazz 4y ago
  And you don't think its possible plenty of people found such a joke distasteful? You act like if you walked the streets of NY after 9/11, making jokes about it, people would be cheering you on... I have a feeling the situation would be quite different.
  - Teever 4y ago
    Is walking through the streets of NY immediately after 9/11 and making 9/11 jokes equivalent to a bot on twitch saying rude things? Like how does what you're talking about relate to the topic at hand in anyway whatsoever?
    - freejazz 4y ago
      It's not, but it wasn't my hypothetical that I offered as a reason of demonstrating my reasonability. >Like how does what you're talking about relate to the topic at hand in anyway whatsoever? I'm not exactly surprised you aren't getting the point. Context doesn't really seem to be a thing to you. For what it's worth, I was pointing out that context matters, so your hypothetical wasn't really meaningful. Arguably, less meaningful than what you accuse my own post of being, considering that my post contained this lesson.
mythopedia 4y ago
> Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? What if that joke was light-hearted, or the comedian was just making fun of people who tell those jokes? And in the context of this story, if I am a comedy club owner who has a rule saying comedians cannot joke about 9/11, is it ok for me to kick out a comedian who breaks those rules?
- swatcoder 4y ago
  OK by who? If you were a club owner that did that, you’d have some people feel supported by your choice and many people offended by it. You could expect to get blackballed by comedians and patrons who’d never bother with those jokes but see you as being an arrogant bourgeoisie, abusing your commercial power over artist’s own expertise in their craft. You’d create your safe space, but lose more than just what you ruled out. There’s no objective “ok” or not, just consequences.
coffeebeqn 4y ago
Appeal to emotion
petodo 4y ago
> People are on this thread casually debating whether this joke "went to far" or not, while the people who this joke was about continue to face constant ridicule, teasing, bullying, discrimination, and assault. I don't see how banning joking about them will help them, all this will achieve is to radicalize moderates. > Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? What if that joke was light-hearted, or the comedian was just making fun of people who tell those jokes? Sure, why not, nobody force you to listen/watch it. If it has audience then it's OK. Society nowadays wanna ban everything because of crybabies who can't handle jokes. But yeah, to play it safe let's not even acknowledge existence of these people, so they can't complain and they can be happy.
- freejazz 4y ago
  > radicalize moderates Hmm, maybe think about that again.
libraryatnight 4y ago
I don't feel like I lose anything by not making a trans jokes. Were I a person in the public eye, I'd choose not to make a trans joke not because I'm afraid of backlash, I'd choose not to make it because I'm living through the time when these people are fighting for a seat at an already uneven and shaky table and it just seems unnecessary. I work with some trans people and they have excellent humor about themselves when the humor isn't intended to imply they're an impossibility or a grotesque. In the case of my in-laws, none of them had trans people on the brain until Tucker Carlson told them they couldn't make trans jokes or some invisible mafia would get them, and now they seem to feel their life just isn't complete if they can't tease trans people.
influx 4y ago
Gilbert Godfrey famously made a 9/11 joke that “bombed” on September 29, 2001. If you eliminate all comedy that offends someone, there won’t be much left to laugh about.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Except that's a part of comedy. Pete Davidson makes jokes about his dad dying in 9/11 all the time and they are hilarious. Just pointing at a shitty thing isn't comedy, you have to actually write a joke.
  - freejazz 4y ago
    I guess you didn't realize that Pete Davidson is making these jokes 20 years after 9/11, not 20 days?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  I think it is possible Godfrey did that on purpose just to set up the audience for his Aristocrats.
y-curious 4y ago
>Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? At what point do you feel like trans individuals will be "fair game" for humor? Or in your example, `no longer being pulled out of the wreckage`? Comedians made 9/11 jokes within a year or 2 of the event.
Slighted 4y ago
>The public dialogue around trans lives is one of very little empathy, respect, or civility. And I wonder why exactly this is the case... Something something "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" With all of the insanity stemming from trans people and loudmouths in the LGBT community both online and in real life, I don't blame people for losing their empathy and respect for them. If you're legitimately clueless as to what I'm referring to, look into child drag shows, censorship, the invasions of women-only (XX chromosome) spaces, legitimate cases of grooming occurring on platforms like Discord, and their generally insufferable attitudes towards people that don't perfectly align with their beliefs.
odessacubbage 4y ago
>Would it have been OK twitch is a platform where you can stream yourself preforming grotesque acts of murder in the most violent videogames. i could foreseeably mod transgender prostitutes into gta or use the names of notable trans activists in rogue survivor and then go target them in a killing spree. trying to draw arbitrary demarcations around permissible culture & expression rarely if ever has the desired effect. calls for empathy, just like those for a return to faith/patriotism/civility/etc can never be sincere if they are enforced by top-down dogma, more than anything else, they breed resentment towards the sacred cow. there are a lot of pressing issues for improving the lives of trans people, primarily issues of law and healthcare policy; banning 41% and ywnbaw jokes is nothing but a distraction. on a personal level i find the mentality of 'be nice to trannies or they'll rope' far more insulting than any memepost. >Joking about people currently experiencing trauma isn't funny. humor is how we overcome trauma, once you can laugh about something it doesn't hurt anymore. if you ban laughter to try and protect someone all you're really telling them is 'nope you're fucked up forever'
twodave 4y ago
I think this is the exact kind of thing we should be talking about. There are some truths that I think we can brush aside if we let ourselves, such as: 1. All people experience trauma. Whether you think one person's trauma is more important, acceptable or comfortable to discuss doesn't change any of that. 2. Some trauma is objectively more severe than others, but not necessarily subjectively more or less. A light-hearted example--we have 4 kids. It's not fair for us to make fun of our friends/extended family who have 1 kid and complain about certain things. It's also not okay for a drug addict to make fun of a porn addict, or for a fat person to call their bulimic friend "shallow". 3. As evidenced above, people cope with trauma in different ways. What causes one person to question their sexuality might drive another person to overeat or another person to self-harm or escape into fantasy literature or video games or whatever other means of avoidance is calling out to them. Nobody deserves to be shamed for this (in fact in a lot of cases that's part of what keeps them in the cycle). We should be able to talk about this openly, though, and even make light of it at times, having enough social grace to know that people with different (or even wrong) opinions or who are telling a joke aren't attacking anyone or spreading hate or whatever. I think at least one real issue here is a lack of trust. If I don't believe the person on the other end of the keyboard has my best interest at heart then I'll probably take whatever opportunity I can to be offended by what they say.

Mizza 4y ago

Most of humanity's best art, literature, music, and comedy is about people experiencing trauma. Being able to joke amidst suffering is the very thing that makes us human. It's also a critical part of empathy itself.

notRobot 4y ago
These are jokes at the expense of people widely discriminated against (and in many parts of the world, outright killed). It's not funny if you're punching down on minorities. It's just fucking sad.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  Doesn't it depend on who's in the audience? You make a joke at someone's face, you're the baddie. You make a joke in a show I specifically went to go see you for, or I clicked on your recording to watch you, it's on me. Generically and universally decrying punching down is extreme and would require spying/policing everyone to implement.
some_furry 4y ago
"If the person on the gallows makes a grim joke, that's gallows humor. If someone in the crowd makes a joke, that's part of the execution." Humor being about trauma is kind of a vague categorization. It's probably more insightful to drill down more specifically.
g_delgado14 4y ago
Dave Chappelle is a master of this. He tells jokes while also making commentary on taboo subjects. Through his jokes, he allows us to open a dialogue about something important that too-often is left untouched. In this case; this AI is not really trying to convey anything meaningful. It's just regurgitating distasteful jokes that hurt people that are currently going through a tough time.
crote 4y ago
I completely agree, but the key distinction here is who is writing the jokes. People experiencing trauma writing jokes about it and being able to joke about it despite the trauma can result in great material. The humor provides a shared way to process the traumatic events. However, it is very different when a third party is doing the joking - and poorly at that. It often ends up just making fun of people who are suffering - which isn't exactly good taste. It is no longer joking amidst suffering, but joking about suffering.

HDThoreaun 4y ago

> people who this joke was about This joke was about transphobes. Yes it would be ok to make a joke about 9/11 jokes not being funny while they were still digging people out of the wreckage. Transphobes aren't experiencing trauma.

ihateyouall123 4y ago

Comedian here. Yes it is and yes it can be. But live in fear all your life and help push more policy that takes away rights.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jimt1234 4y ago
My favorite comedy has been about stereotypes in society, especially negative stereotypes. The joke isn't about the stereotype itself, or the people targeted by the stereotype, but rather the joke is on any dumb-ass who believes in that stereotype (older generations, people with closed minds, etc.) At least that's they way I've always looked at it. It's been difficult the last few years because no one wants to even acknowledge that these stereotypes exist, like any joke or mention of them is hurtful.
- jdmtheNth 4y ago
  https://spsp.org/news-center/character-context-blog/stereotype-accuracy-one-largest-and-most-replicable-effects-all https://spsp.org/news-center/character-context-blog/stereoty...

marcusverus 4y ago

> Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? This is a good question! Who should be asking it? Comedians, or the morality police?

freejazz 4y ago
Okay, I'm calling the drama police on you.

temp_account_32 4y ago

Have 40% transgender people attempted suicide primarily because they are being bullied by society or because they have a mental disorder where their body doesn't match their brain and they become depressed because it is physically impossible to reconcile those differences, so they spiral into despair? Genuine question, I just don't know how to tiptoe around this in a 2023 acceptable way without asking it bluntly. Sounds like we need better medical treatment if half of people with the condition want to commit suicide, and telling people on the internet to stop bullying and putting colorful flags in your twitter profile won't suffice. Not advocating for hate, just saying that it seems the medical community delegated this whole thing to society with a note of 'please be nice and everything will sort itself out'.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
etchalon 4y ago
People were making the "they're committing suicide because their brain is wrong so we need to fix their brain" argument about homosexuality back in the 90s. Research has pretty firmly come down on the "nah, it's society." side of things.
- daveslash 4y ago
  If I understood temp_account_32's point correctly, the comment about the mental health was not "they're trans, therefore their brains _must_ be wired wrong", so much as it was "before they transition, they're often so distraught over their identity and who they see in the mirror, that it often causes despair and depression". I agree with you that research has pretty firmly come down on the side of "nah, it's society" for the former. I think the latter is a fair point. To pin it all on society I find to be disingenuous. Transitioning can be a healthy thing in that case. Disclaimer: am not trans, so I openly admit I may be totally ignorant and off base.
  - etchalon 4y ago
    It's not all society's fault, but research has shown that the distress and depression of being outside societal defaults is greatly lessened when support is available and acceptance wide spread.

ccn0p 4y ago

But does controlling what everyone says on the Internet help or ultimately hurt? This seems to be the crux of so many problems.

yesco 4y ago

>It's weird to talk about missing an element of human empathy regarding the topic of trans individuals, whose very existence is unacceptable to a broad swath of the population. I certainly won't deny that trans people go through a lot, but stuff like this is honestly getting hard to take seriously. It's commonly repeated but going on about their "existence" itself being denied just sounds over dramatic. I don't think trans people are any worse off than other marginalized groups but for some reason, I'm finding they receive the fiercest protections. In fact, within my own friend group, I'm pretty sure a trans joke would have far more immediate social implications now than even a joke about the holocaust. It's so over the top at this point my empathy is diminishing. > Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? What if that joke was light-hearted, or the comedian was just making fun of people who tell those jokes? It would have been poor taste but I don't think you would have received any bans from social medial for making one, that's a pretty new phenomenon.

mynameisvlad 4y ago
What even is this argument? “Your life admittedly sucks but I think you blow it out of proportion so I can’t feel empathy for you”
- yesco 4y ago
  No, it's just that whenever they seem to be brought up in discussion aggressive "supporters" come out of the woodwork, over dramatically act like the world is ending over the smallest things and misrepresent my arguments with the most bad faith interpretation on purpose. Like you are doing now. It's hard for me to empathize with a group that increasingly looks less like a marginalized group, and more like some fanatical religion that somehow has gained an almost ridiculous amount of influence over every major institution and social media platform. And I say this as someone who was originally 100% on board. A trans person could insult my identity, race and sexuality without any consequences whatsoever, but the reverse has the potential of permanently ending my social life and livelihood. Of course as the magnitude of this disparity keeps increasing, my empathy, and sympathy would decrease along with it. If anything, I'm actually starting to become afraid of trans people, not because of their transition, but due to their incredible authority.

Teever 4y ago

> Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? "Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." Do you think its possible that someone doing that digging told a terrible joke when they were doing that digging? Would it be funny if a trans person was the one telling the joke?

freejazz 4y ago
And you don't think its possible plenty of people found such a joke distasteful? You act like if you walked the streets of NY after 9/11, making jokes about it, people would be cheering you on... I have a feeling the situation would be quite different.
- Teever 4y ago
  Is walking through the streets of NY immediately after 9/11 and making 9/11 jokes equivalent to a bot on twitch saying rude things? Like how does what you're talking about relate to the topic at hand in anyway whatsoever?
  - freejazz 4y ago
    It's not, but it wasn't my hypothetical that I offered as a reason of demonstrating my reasonability. >Like how does what you're talking about relate to the topic at hand in anyway whatsoever? I'm not exactly surprised you aren't getting the point. Context doesn't really seem to be a thing to you. For what it's worth, I was pointing out that context matters, so your hypothetical wasn't really meaningful. Arguably, less meaningful than what you accuse my own post of being, considering that my post contained this lesson.

mythopedia 4y ago

> Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? What if that joke was light-hearted, or the comedian was just making fun of people who tell those jokes? And in the context of this story, if I am a comedy club owner who has a rule saying comedians cannot joke about 9/11, is it ok for me to kick out a comedian who breaks those rules?

swatcoder 4y ago
OK by who? If you were a club owner that did that, you’d have some people feel supported by your choice and many people offended by it. You could expect to get blackballed by comedians and patrons who’d never bother with those jokes but see you as being an arrogant bourgeoisie, abusing your commercial power over artist’s own expertise in their craft. You’d create your safe space, but lose more than just what you ruled out. There’s no objective “ok” or not, just consequences.

coffeebeqn 4y ago

Appeal to emotion

petodo 4y ago

> People are on this thread casually debating whether this joke "went to far" or not, while the people who this joke was about continue to face constant ridicule, teasing, bullying, discrimination, and assault. I don't see how banning joking about them will help them, all this will achieve is to radicalize moderates. > Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? What if that joke was light-hearted, or the comedian was just making fun of people who tell those jokes? Sure, why not, nobody force you to listen/watch it. If it has audience then it's OK. Society nowadays wanna ban everything because of crybabies who can't handle jokes. But yeah, to play it safe let's not even acknowledge existence of these people, so they can't complain and they can be happy.

freejazz 4y ago
> radicalize moderates Hmm, maybe think about that again.

libraryatnight 4y ago

I don't feel like I lose anything by not making a trans jokes. Were I a person in the public eye, I'd choose not to make a trans joke not because I'm afraid of backlash, I'd choose not to make it because I'm living through the time when these people are fighting for a seat at an already uneven and shaky table and it just seems unnecessary. I work with some trans people and they have excellent humor about themselves when the humor isn't intended to imply they're an impossibility or a grotesque. In the case of my in-laws, none of them had trans people on the brain until Tucker Carlson told them they couldn't make trans jokes or some invisible mafia would get them, and now they seem to feel their life just isn't complete if they can't tease trans people.

influx 4y ago

Gilbert Godfrey famously made a 9/11 joke that “bombed” on September 29, 2001. If you eliminate all comedy that offends someone, there won’t be much left to laugh about.

mrguyorama 4y ago
Except that's a part of comedy. Pete Davidson makes jokes about his dad dying in 9/11 all the time and they are hilarious. Just pointing at a shitty thing isn't comedy, you have to actually write a joke.
- freejazz 4y ago
  I guess you didn't realize that Pete Davidson is making these jokes 20 years after 9/11, not 20 days?
AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
I think it is possible Godfrey did that on purpose just to set up the audience for his Aristocrats.

y-curious 4y ago

>Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? At what point do you feel like trans individuals will be "fair game" for humor? Or in your example, `no longer being pulled out of the wreckage`? Comedians made 9/11 jokes within a year or 2 of the event.

Slighted 4y ago

>The public dialogue around trans lives is one of very little empathy, respect, or civility. And I wonder why exactly this is the case... Something something "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" With all of the insanity stemming from trans people and loudmouths in the LGBT community both online and in real life, I don't blame people for losing their empathy and respect for them. If you're legitimately clueless as to what I'm referring to, look into child drag shows, censorship, the invasions of women-only (XX chromosome) spaces, legitimate cases of grooming occurring on platforms like Discord, and their generally insufferable attitudes towards people that don't perfectly align with their beliefs.

odessacubbage 4y ago

>Would it have been OK twitch is a platform where you can stream yourself preforming grotesque acts of murder in the most violent videogames. i could foreseeably mod transgender prostitutes into gta or use the names of notable trans activists in rogue survivor and then go target them in a killing spree. trying to draw arbitrary demarcations around permissible culture & expression rarely if ever has the desired effect. calls for empathy, just like those for a return to faith/patriotism/civility/etc can never be sincere if they are enforced by top-down dogma, more than anything else, they breed resentment towards the sacred cow. there are a lot of pressing issues for improving the lives of trans people, primarily issues of law and healthcare policy; banning 41% and ywnbaw jokes is nothing but a distraction. on a personal level i find the mentality of 'be nice to trannies or they'll rope' far more insulting than any memepost. >Joking about people currently experiencing trauma isn't funny. humor is how we overcome trauma, once you can laugh about something it doesn't hurt anymore. if you ban laughter to try and protect someone all you're really telling them is 'nope you're fucked up forever'

twodave 4y ago

I think this is the exact kind of thing we should be talking about. There are some truths that I think we can brush aside if we let ourselves, such as: 1. All people experience trauma. Whether you think one person's trauma is more important, acceptable or comfortable to discuss doesn't change any of that. 2. Some trauma is objectively more severe than others, but not necessarily subjectively more or less. A light-hearted example--we have 4 kids. It's not fair for us to make fun of our friends/extended family who have 1 kid and complain about certain things. It's also not okay for a drug addict to make fun of a porn addict, or for a fat person to call their bulimic friend "shallow". 3. As evidenced above, people cope with trauma in different ways. What causes one person to question their sexuality might drive another person to overeat or another person to self-harm or escape into fantasy literature or video games or whatever other means of avoidance is calling out to them. Nobody deserves to be shamed for this (in fact in a lot of cases that's part of what keeps them in the cycle). We should be able to talk about this openly, though, and even make light of it at times, having enough social grace to know that people with different (or even wrong) opinions or who are telling a joke aren't attacking anyone or spreading hate or whatever. I think at least one real issue here is a lack of trust. If I don't believe the person on the other end of the keyboard has my best interest at heart then I'll probably take whatever opportunity I can to be offended by what they say.