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Omega-3s: Are “Brain-Boosting” Effects Scientifically Backed?

• humbleferret 4y ago
  An intriguing read that summarises the findings of multiple sources. Makes one ponder the true effectiveness of other supplements on the market, and whether the $100B+ industry is built on hearsay and deception.
  • rogerkirkness 4y ago
    Started my career at a supplement company and it is definitely heresy, deception, and weird derivatives of protein and caffeine.
  • ttyyzz 4y ago
    Selling water / sugar that has been "marketed differently" (read: they lie to you) is a huge industry, yes. E.g. "Vitamin Water", all kinds of supplements marketed in the fitness industry, even https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy. Placebo is a strong thing.
  • ejb999 4y ago
    I agree - its hearsay and deception - vitamins and nutrients and dietary supplements are a huge, profit driven, industries - they are not your friend trying to improve your health - they are trying to empty your wallet and nothing else.
  • Spooky23 4y ago
    No pondering necessary. That entire industry is based on making implications with statements and lobbying to avoid any potential accountability.
  • AppleBananaPie 4y ago
    Multiple sources can hardly be considered an effective bar to decide if something as a whole is good or bad for you. The author completely misses major pieces of literature around these and citing something that is critical for you body as 'probably good for you' while not covering a single instance of health problems from deficiencies makes it hard to take this seriously.
    • iillexial 4y ago
      >The author completely misses major pieces of literature Can you provide links?
      • bearcream67 4y ago
        Not who you're replying to but https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0515-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0515-5 from my other comment seems relevant. There are many, curious what apple will link
• wolfi1 4y ago
  reminds me of lecithin which was marketed in the 80s as helpful for the aging brain, turns out, lecithin does not cross the Blood-Brain barrier
  • EMM_386 4y ago
    The thing is, there are simply too many variables. Using your example of lecithin, there are numerous studies that show it is effective in improving/reversing fatty liver disease. https://www.bcm.edu/news/lecithin-component-may-reduce-fatty-liver https://www.bcm.edu/news/lecithin-component-may-reduce-fatty... There have been other studies that establish a link between liver health and alzheimers, even that protein from the liver can cause Alzheimer's disease in the brain. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210914152531.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210914152531.h... That study aims to prove that high fat content in the liver could cause Azlheimer's. So indirectly, taking lecithin may help the brain, even though it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier! Too many variables.
  • LinuxBender 4y ago
    For what it's worth, 1 egg contains about 3.3 grams of lecithin. Provided one is not averse to eating eggs there should be no need to take it in supplement form. Eggs have the best form of lecithin.
• n2j3 4y ago
  cost of 100 omega 3 capsules (in .gr): ~10 euros, fish and nuts cost about 18 euros per kilo and tend to spoil.
  • pprotas 4y ago
    Omega 3 capsules can also spoil, right?
    • humbleferret 4y ago
      > Omega 3 capsules can also spoil, right? Yes, they do. An old study suggests an average of 20% of omega-3 fish oil products had excessive oxidation. Or in other words, rancid. https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/80/1/138/6321411?login=false https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/80/1/138/6...
  • ben_w 4y ago
    Fish are famous for spoiling quickly, but nuts are not.
  • The_Colonel 4y ago
    Eating a lot of fish also brings some risks from microplastic and other pollution, especially if you don't pay attention to where it comes from.
  • ilostmyshoes 4y ago
    You you can just buy cold pressed flax oil and supplement with that. ~30 USD for ~1L iirc and it has an absolute assload of ALA (omega3) Hemp seed oil is a good one for omega6 but usually people get enough 6 from diet and 3 is the one we need to boost to get the 3:6 ratio up https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_ratio_in_food https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_ratio_in_food
    • newaccount74 4y ago
      I like flax oil, but it spoils very quickly. I have trouble going through 250ml before it goes rancid.
• simonh 4y ago
  So basically once your body has all the nutrients it needs to grow or make the things it needs to make, it makes them. Even more extra stuff it doesn’t need, it doesn’t use. Makes sense. This also appears to apply to the immune system. There’s zero evidence that supplements that are supposed to “boost your immune system” do any such thing. Yes your immune system functions best if you have good nutrition, but that’s it. Even better nutrition just isn’t a thing. Side rant, sorry, but I had this conversation with a relative during covid, she was touting supplements to ‘boost her immune system’. There’s one way we have found that really does actually boost your immune system, that works with your natural defences by training them specifically to fight a particular disease. Vaccination.
  • weavie 4y ago
    I guess the argument would be that you don't know for sure whether your diet does provide all the nutrients your body needs, so supplements could be used to fill in any gaps. The assumption being that your body will just dispose of any excess safely.
    • AmericanChopper 4y ago
      If you spend enough time looking into what micronutrients you need, you eventually figure out that it is actually pretty hard to get them all through diet. But there is essentially no end to the scientifically backed list of beneficial supplements you might choose to take, so if you want to start, there’s not really a rational place to stop, and it can spiral out of control quite quickly. I think the better approach is just to eat a varied diet.
    • 300bps 4y ago
      The assumption being that your body will just dispose of any excess safely. Well worded. From my personal experience, this assumption is dangerous. About 20 years ago I was having elevated AST/ALT liver enzymes three tests in a row indicating liver damage. Doctor ordered every test to see what was going on but everything came up negative. She asked me if I took a multivitamin which I did. She told me to stop. Haven’t had elevated liver enzymes since.
• tgv 4y ago
  Does lack of it have an effect? I couldn't find that in the list.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• mistercow 4y ago
  I don’t understand the author’s reading of the literature they cite. They refer to “isolated studies” and then link to a systematic review of 25 studies. They also linked to the same review twice for both memory and attention, which I assume is a mistake, because the review only supports the claim about memory. But none of these studies are about “brain-boosting”. They’re about preventing or reversing cognitive decline, which is perhaps related, but ultimately different. No fault to the author of this post for being unable to find evidence focused on healthy adults; anyone who has looked into the evidence around nootropics can tell you that pretty much nobody wants to study that. But it’s important to be clear about what the evidence actually says, and what it doesn’t speak to.
  • mililitre 4y ago
    Thanks for the feedback: will update the second link to point to the correct source, and I think "isolated findings" would be a more accurate word here. I agree that many of the studies are about cognitive decline, but there's also research on improving cognitive function, which would probably be closer to "brain boosting" category you mention. For example, from the first source I listed, "Six trials (including 1757 participants) assessed executive function, 5 trials (including 1426 participants) assessed effects of LCn3 on processing speed, and 11 (including 5698 participants) assessed memory. Meta-analysis suggested little or no effect for all of these measures (as well as the subcategories of memory, all moderate- or low-quality evidence; see Supplementary Material for further information)."
    • stevespang 4y ago
      [dead]
    • bearcream67 4y ago
      "Current evidence supports the finding that omega-3 PUFAs with EPA ≥ 60% at a dosage of ≤1 g/d would have beneficial effects on depression." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0515-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0515-5 Is this considered brain boosting?
• mamonster 4y ago
  I mean, that's kind of the gist of supplements as a whole, you only take them if you cannot replicate it using a normal diet/lifestyle. The biggest example for this IMO is Vitamin D. If you can spend time in the Sun regularly every day, you won't ever need to touch vitamin D. But how realistic is that for most people ? The only supplement I've encountered so far that has a noticeable effect that cannot be reproduced with any realistic diet is creatine.
  • nervousvarun 4y ago
    Creatine...would say especially if you're male, is such a game-changer. Recently got my dad who is in his 70s to start taking it and it's been enormously positive for him. Really good stuff. Personally think it's probably equally valuable for women but can't get my wife to take it (worried about the bloating which is a thing). To your point it would be very difficult to get the equivalent creatine from your diet. Would take a lot of steak.
    • rex-mundi 4y ago
      What benefits did you Dad get from it?
      • nervousvarun 4y ago
        More weight and energy/faster recovery with his circuit training. His overall lean muscle tone has visibly improved. Haven't asked him about his cardio training but he's moving more weight around than he did before and that's creating benefits for him overall.
    • taeric 4y ago
      Did you look at any of the studies that showed placebo effects comparable to creatine? It is insane, as we know the mechanism for how creatine does its thing. Still, the social effects of being told it is effective seems to be the dominant reason it is as effective as it is.
      • 4y ago
• mjburgess 4y ago
  One of the major problems translating "science to advice" is the need to specify a risk/reward model for the person being advised. If P(TheScience) = 0.01, but P(GeneralInjury|TheScience) = 0.00000000000...1, and P(GeneralBenefit|TheScience) = 0.5 .... then most people should do "what the science says". Of course there's P(MyBenefit|TheScience) and P(MyInjury|TheScience) which makes rendering general advise often impossible/unethical. There's a class of people (eg., neurodivergent, autoimmune problems, etc.) for whom P(MyInjury|...) is "anti-correlated" with P(GeneralInjury|...) ...which leads to more pronounced mistrust regarding medical interventions.
  • chickenimprint 4y ago
    What do you mean by P(TheScience) ?
    • mjburgess 4y ago
      The confidence we have that the relevant scientific prescriptions are true.
      • isitmadeofglass 4y ago
        That’s an odd use of notation. Typically P(A|B) is used to denote probabilities of outcomes.
        • wizzwizz4 4y ago
          P(A|B) denotes the probability of A, given B: out of all the "possible worlds" where B is true, in what proportion is A true? P(B) denotes the probability of B given no additional constraints: it's the same as saying P(B|true).
        • mjburgess 4y ago
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_probability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_probability
      • 4y ago
• anoplus 4y ago
  I like experimenting with different lifestyles to see how I feel. Most of the times there are too many variables to make conclusions. Anyway, I tried going vegetarian for few weeks, then introduced fish to diet and felt noticeably better. Then, I tried remove fish and take fish oil instead. Felt absolutely no benefits. At-least feeling wise. I repeated this experiment multiple times so I am sure it isn't coincidence
  • anthlax 4y ago
    And how did you control for placebo?
    • anoplus 4y ago
      No control. I don't believe I am affected by placebo.
      • anthlax 4y ago
        Interesting - how does one determine if they are “affected by placebo” or not?
        • narag 4y ago
          If you don't mind, you're not affected. Or in other words: if you're affected, you don't mind. (I'm not even joking. If you're researching a substance to use it for others, you definitely need it to control for placebo. But if you're doing it just for yourself, you only need it to work, no matter why. Another story is if it stops working)
          • anthlax 4y ago
            This is an great take! I agree placebo is a powerful tool :). Thanks for the conversation
          • anthlax 4y ago
            This is a great take! I agree placebo is a powerful tool. Thanks for the conversation
• mark_l_watson 4y ago
  I am not an expert in nutrition, but I still have my opinions: I try to consume a lot of Omega 3 via the food I eat: chia seeds, walnuts, etc. I avoid eating foods, like the fish Tilapia, that contain a lot of Omega 6. I do take one daily Omega 3 supplement I get from my optometrist for a particular vision problem.
• azubinski 4y ago
  There was a strange country where the pure Omega-3 "fish fat" was extremely popular, almost every child was fed this in childhood. Then these kids grew up. And they became tens of millions of idiots who put cans of water in front of TVs so that some charlatan would "charge" this water. So this Omega-3 is proven not to help the brain. It maybe even harmful. The second assertion has not yet been refuted. :)
  • dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
    >So this Omega-3 is proven not to help the brain. It maybe even harmful. The second assertion has not yet been refuted. So I don't recollect all sources but it does appear that for people who understand the nuances ( of which there are not many) it indeed could be harmful. One source: https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml
• daniel_iversen 4y ago
  Interesting. But omega-3 oils are still good for the joints at least aren’t they, does anyone know?
• francisofascii 4y ago
  > They also have antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties that might help brain function. I think people take omega-3s for the antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties. That's the benefit. The "brain boosting" effects, if any, are just a possible bonus.
• nabla9 4y ago
  Metaphor I learned from a biochemist: You are in a boat with holes in it (holes in this metaphor are nutritional deficiencies). To prevent the boat from sinking you patch the holes under waterline starting from the largest. The boat continues to sink until all holes under the waterline are patched. You don't stop sinking by patching one hole again and again. After you have patched all holes under the waterline you can prepare for storm (old age, sickness) and patch holes above the waterline. You should start from the lowest and go upward. lessons: 1. Measure. Blood test can determine if you have deficiencies you need to fix. 2. Once you have fixed one deficiency, fixing it by taking more does not help. 3. Fancy nutrients (phytonutrients, Omega-3) have very tiny effect size if it exists at all. They would be at the bottom of any list (healthy diet, exercise, sleep, right weight). If you don't get enough sleep your immune system and cognition are compromised and supplements don't compensate. ---- ps. Body can synthesize omega-3 if there is enough α-linolenic acid (ALA) available. Aging may impair body's ability to make omega−3 fatty acids from ALA. _IF_ this is the case, omega-3 supplements _may_ help.
  • tablespoon 4y ago
    > ps. Body can synthesize omega-3 if there is enough α-linolenic acid (ALA) available. IIRC, ALA is an Omega 3, just one the human body doesn't use for much. The body can synthesize EPA and DHA (which it does use), but humans are pretty bad at that. It's totally conceivable that the rate of synthesis evolved in the context of regular dietary intake of EPA/DHA, so never needed to provide for all the body's needs.
    • nabla9 4y ago
      You are correct. Thank you.
• AppleBananaPie 4y ago
  There are a lot of things that supplements are claimed to help but clearly don't. That being said there are things that have promising scientific research about benefits and this article lacks any information on EPA omega 3s separate from the others which ultimately makes me disregard any conclusion of omega 3s as a whole. Look into the potential effects of EPA omega 3s specifically on depression and the potential benefits compared to or combined with anti-depressants. Andrew Huberman had it in his episode on anxiety and depression I think. The impact of omega 3s on adhd is also an interesting area of research. Using a click bait "brain-boosting" description completely misses the point of many studies that show that certain diets low in different omega 3s cause different problems for people.
• tablespoon 4y ago
  Anecdotally, when I first started taking (6 normal-strength pills a day) of fish oil in college, I quite unexpectedly noticed my "field of view" expanded when I was driving. Previously I'd been exclusively focused on a smallish area immediately in front my my car, but after a few months of Omega 3s, I noticed I was "noticing" and taking into account traffic that was much further down the street. Though I kinda suspect that was the result of curing a deficiency, because I plateaued and didn't notice other improvements after continued supplementation. It was also very early in the fish oil/Omega 3 craze, so I suspect the food up to that point was generally more deficient in it (e.g. no feed chickens flax to get "Omega 3" eggs).
  • dreamoffire 4y ago
    Doesn't this sound like an inexperienced driver gaining more experience or was there little driving in between?
    • tablespoon 4y ago
      > Doesn't this sound like an inexperienced driver gaining more experience or was there little driving in between? Maybe it sounds that way, but it wasn't. I'd already been driving for 5+ years by that time, and the change happened only after a couple of months of supplementation. I also used to frequently "zone out" in a particular way during daily life, which also went away around the same time.
  • sudosteph 4y ago
    Interesting, I actually had an extremely similar experience, except it was when I first took ADHD medicine, and I noticed it most strongly while navigating through the city by foot. "Field of View" is a good sort of description for it though, it was like the amount of information I could passively perceive about my immediate surroundings just increased dramatically.
• ravenstine 4y ago
  Even if supplementing omega 3 had any meaningful benefit, enough of those supplements are either spoiled or tainted with things like aldehydes that I decided to stop taking them. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30529885/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30529885/ Better to just eat meat and eggs.
• photochemsyn 4y ago
  [flagged]
• osigurdson 4y ago
  I've always thought that these types of studies / meta-analysis are conducted in a backward manner. A study is proposed, funded, performed - possibly with a particular objective in mind. The results are published (possibly used in various marketing materials), then almost enviably, methods and rationale are questioned by others post hoc. The end result of the exercise is often no knowledge gained with diminishing public trust in science. Instead what we should do, is to come up with a study design first, gain broad consensus that the study, if rigorously conducted in accordance to the design, would yield statistically meaningful results. The challenge here is many studies would likely be infeasible (requiring millions of people or hundreds of years in order to attain a statistically valid result - or both). However, that is useful in it's own right as it would help us to direct resources at studies that do have a hope of increasing knowledge. Infeasible studies will just have to wait until we can accurately simulate biological phenomena.
  • bannedbybros 4y ago
    [dead]
• meindnoch 4y ago
  Anecdotal experience: I was taking an SNRI medication, and when I tried an omega-3 supplement it gave me those unmistakeable brain zaps you get when weaning off of antidepressants. So it definitely did something to my brain! By the way, paradoxically, people discontinuing antidepressants usually take omega-3 hoping that it will lessen their brain zaps...
• PragmaticPulp 4y ago
  One of the interesting things you pick up on from reading supplement blogs and fitness forums is that a lot of people have negative reactions to Omega 3 supplements. If you search for “omega-3 depression” you find a lot of stories from people whose depression started or worsened with omega-3 supplements, and resolved later. This is a particularly interesting find given that the placebo effect would be expected to go in the opposite direction: Many of these people started the supplement because they thought it was going to improve their health, not worsen it. It can take a very long time to recognize the connection between the supplement and side effects. Several other supplements are common contributors to depressive symptoms. Choline supplements often make irritability and depression worse. This finding isn’t surprising given that cholinergic signaling has been known to be associated with depression for decades and many powerful antidepressants are anticholinergic. Yet you can find a lot of supplement sellers pushing choline supplements as something that automatically improves brain health.
  • bearcream67 4y ago
    I'm curious as to what papers mention this! Quickly pulling up one related appears to clearly support EPA omega 3 supplementation being a beneficial tool to help with depression. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0515-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0515-5
  • sinenomine 4y ago
    Regardless of personal reports you mention, choline is a very interesting substance due to demonstrated long-term attention benefits in children after being administered to their mothers during pregnancy: https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1096/fj.202101217R https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1096/fj.2021012... This is as close to "life-changing" as it gets with these substances.
• rhacker 4y ago
  Supplements are great because at worst they work like a placebo. There is a ton of evidence that placebos actually work better than real FDA approved stuff (in some cases) because there is a metric tonne of crap we don't understand about the brain itself and it's ability to heal the body. At best they actually affect the gut microbiome in some way (mostly probiotics) which, in many cases, are also backed by clinical studies that show has effects (placebo controlled). We'll be finding out in the coming years that the gut microbiome is the "second brain" or the brain controlling the brain. Everything from mood disorders to major diseases like ALS to auto-immunity of the thyroid may start with good or bad bacteria in our systems. This is the cutting edge research, nothing in a book in the last 3 years.
  • obruchez 4y ago
    I'd say that, at worst, they can be bad for you. You can overdose some of them. And if you're talking about herbal supplements, it's probably even worse than that, i.e. some of them can actively be bad for you (e.g. St. John's wort if you're taking other medications). And then, there's the problem of quality. Some supplements contain substances they shouldn't contain (e.g. heavy metals or others). I'm a fan/user of supplements/nootropics, but they shouldn't be taken lightly.
• jack_pp 4y ago
  Anecdotally, I've read a long time ago that fish oil should help with sleep but I didn't start supplementing. Fast forward to this summer, I had big sleep problems, I couldn't keep a normal schedule and when I woke up I had terrible brain fog, took my like 2-3h in the morning to wake up properly and be able to function. Then I started taking fish oil, I got it by the bottle because I've read pills could have rancid oil and I figured if I directly taste it I will know if it's fresh/well kept. My sleep problems disappeared overnight.
  • ralfd 4y ago
    What brand/product did you buy?
    • jack_pp 4y ago
      This brand, might be different flavour. https://lysi.com/consumer-products/liquid-cod-liver-oil https://lysi.com/consumer-products/liquid-cod-liver-oil I put like 5-10ml in a shot glass and fill the rest with water, just chug it and rinse the glass with water a few times. This way, I can barely taste it and have no fish oil aftertaste, the flavor they add might help too
• sinenomine 4y ago
  Regardless of the potential nootropic effect discussed in the blogpost, the circulatory system (heart) benefits are pretty well studied and proven: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22370-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22370-2 though require considerable doses of the DHA or EHA.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• bazmattaz 4y ago
  Anecdotal evidence time! I take 3 high strength omega 3 tablets every day. I feel like it sharpens my mind and improves my focus. It might be a placebo but I know when I go off them (sometimes I have a few off months for no real reason) I get bad brain fog and my performance at work slips. With omegas i feel like I sleep better and recover from the gym quicker
• moremetadata 4y ago
  Is this an obedience to authority and child abuse study? You'd have to read the article and then click through on the links to see, unless my internet access is being MITM. Edit. Didnt see any mention of neutrophils and the effect EPA has on their size and effectiveness, which can also increase brain function in a round about way and no mention of its testosterone enhancing ways which through its mild aromatase inhibition, which then contradicts the oestrogen-choline pathway and the effect choline has on the brain. Contradictions everywhere.