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Sounds like you didn't fully read the article. Nothing is said about stolen property. > Responsible recyclers and refurbishers wipe the data from used devices
by geuis 4y ago
Sounds like you didn't fully read the article. Nothing is said about stolen property.
> Responsible recyclers and refurbishers wipe the data from used devices before selling them on. In these cases, the data is wiped, but cannot be assigned to a new user, making them effectively worthless. Instead of finding these machines a second home, Bumstead and others are dismantling them and selling the parts. These computers often end up at recycling centers after corporations go out of business or buy all new machines.
- jb1991 4y agoApple has an easy path to reset an Apple Silicon device by the original owner so it can be sold and used by another. I know because I've done it. But if it is stolen, game over. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201065 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201065 (to some of the commenters, note Step 2 carefully -- the rest of this guide is for older macs)
- Nullabillity 4y ago[flagged]
- coder543 4y agoStep 2: > If you're using macOS Monterey or later on a Mac with Apple silicon or a Mac with the Apple T2 Security Chip, use Erase All Content and Settings instead of the remaining steps in this article. So, it is literally a two step process for any Mac released since the end of 2017, and the first step is just an optional reminder to cancel or transfer your AppleCare coverage if you have any. So, one real step. Wow, so hard. > assuming that the seller is even aware The buyer should make the seller aware of the problem, because it is in the buyer's interest not to end up with scrap. But, regardless, why would the seller not want to wipe their computer first? The seller will inevitably hit the button mentioned in the help article simply because that's the only obvious way to wipe the computer to anyone who isn't super technical. This is a problem that practically solves itself for devices that aren't stolen.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- willnonya 4y agoThis again assumes the owner isn't ignorant of the requirement or apathetic to it. Corpo6entities tend to be apathetic while most private owners are simply stupid.
- coder543 4y ago>> The buyer should make the seller aware of the problem, because it is in the buyer's interest not to end up with scrap. How does this assume anything about the owner/seller? It’s entirely on the buyer to make sure they’re getting what they want out of a transaction (as long as the seller is not misrepresenting the product), and activation lock has been a thing for like a decade on Apple devices, so it should be widely known. If they make major purchases without even doing the bare minimum of due diligence, they will have a bad time regardless of activation lock. I’ve seen people buy ancient MacBooks off eBay that can’t run the software they need, simply because they didn’t do the research. That isn’t the seller’s fault. If the seller is misrepresenting the product as having the activation lock removed when it isn’t, that becomes a legal issue. On platforms like eBay, they will happily side with the buyer and refund them in cases like that. For B2B stuff, that’s why lawyers exist.
- goosedragons 4y agoClick step two and guess how many steps it is.
- pram 4y ago[flagged]
- jb1991 4y agoFalse. It's not 9 steps. It takes less than 5 minutes and requires nearly no effort.
- merb 4y agoit's a single step if you don't have applecare and applecare just makes it harder, because you need to cancel it. it's just a two button process with big fat red buttons and you need to enter you password.
- nightski 4y agoHmm, I've seen recyclers with stacks of these machines (including new M1 Max's) that they say they have to throw out because they can't do this. I wonder if you are missing something.
- Operyl 4y agoWe're not missing something, the recyclers are. The original owner just has to use their Apple ID to disassociate the device. The problem is, that step isn't happening, and the juggling of devices from reseller to reseller results in the original "owner" becoming lost.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- cameldrv 4y agoJuggling of devices from reseller to reseller sounds like laundering stolen goods to me. If it’s a legitimate sale, the original recycler will require the seller to wipe/unlock the device or they will only give a steeply discounted price. If the seller is going to get hundreds/thousands less by not wiping the device, they will do it. Thus, the only problem for recyclers is recycling stolen laptops.
- fmajid 4y agoNot necessarily, one of them gave the example of machines acquired at bankruptcy.
- hedora 4y agoThe bankruptcy court should have compelled the former owner to sell the laptops instead of scrapping them. The proceeds would go to creditors. I’m sure there are plenty of court precedents around bankrupt businesses trashing assets out of spite rather than selling them.
- 4y ago
- SilasX 4y agoI'm glad they have that process outlined, but dang if it couldn't use a little streamlining. Individually sign out of iTunes(step 4), and iCloud(5), and iMessage(6)? They couldn't add something to the OS that does all three for you? And the later steps (erasing disk[8], reinstalling MacOS[8], and resetting NVRAM[9]) don't somehow already break those sessions?
- jb1991 4y agoYou did not read the guide correctly -- those other steps are for older versions of the mac. Recent T2 on Apple Silicon is a very short, easy reset.
- wkat4242 4y agoAnd pre-T2 Macs don't have activation lock anyway so it's not an issue.
- Operyl 4y agoStep two is a catch all, if you have a certain version of macOS or later. > use Erase All Content and Settings instead of the remaining steps in this article. For any other Mac or macOS, continue to step 3.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- krolden 4y agoNo, if you reinstall macos without removing the machine from your apple account it will lock down just like a factory reset iPhone and require you to login to the original account.
- kayodelycaon 4y agoTake a closer look at Step 2: If you're using macOS Monterey or later on a Mac with Apple silicon or a Mac with the Apple T2 Security Chip, use Erase All Content and Settings instead of the remaining steps in this article. For any other Mac or macOS, continue to step 3.
- krolden 4y agoYeah, extra work for overworked IT departments. I'm sure they'll be happy to add extra work they dont have to do. Ive worked with second hand devices for a long time. Ive had many come through that have activation/MDM/etc locks and have tried calling the IT dept they came from and all but about one time they pretty much just laughed at me or just played dumb about it entirely. Apple and other vendors were no help in this as they just tell you to contact the original owner.
- jb1991 4y ago>Yeah, extra work for overworked IT departments. I'm sure they'll be happy to add extra work they dont have to do. But at the benefit of less-burdened security teams, and greatly enhanced peace of mind for users and info-sensitive organizations? You can argue it's taking something highly risky like security and shifting those man hours to something not as threatening.
- imwillofficial 4y agoThe world changes and so do procedures.
- krolden 4y agoMost Security Depts were just fine with HDD/ssd destruction. With new apple machines there is no possibility of this.
- jb1991 4y agoBut security is about more than what you do at the end of a machine’s ownership, it’s all the things you have to consider while the machine is out in the world with very sensitive information on it. And now those security departments have much less to worry about because of this security architecture in the chip. As the sibling commenter points out, this should also result in less waste as those drives do not need to be destroyed if the device is properly unlocked.
- 4y ago
- jakub_g 4y agoThe article says that some corporations do not care and do not cooperate after unloading the machine to recyclers. (Including schools - which makes a bit more sense, one can assume school computer for pupils does not have any security-critical information, apart from maybe network config etc).
- gnicholas 4y agoStrangely, if you follow steps 1 and 2 then you miss step 3, which is to back up or transfer your files. Why would the owner of an Apple Silicon machine not want to do this?
- eterevsky 4y agoIt's the responsibility of the user who sells the device to factory reset it.
- veleek 4y agoThe problem is when the user who sells it is a business or company who can’t be bothered to unlock the devices.
- lovich 4y agoThe refurbished probably shouldn’t purchase those machines then if it’s a known issue. There’s a tradeoff here, and needing the owner to run a command to reset the machine seems preferable to having them be valuable if stolen
- benj111 4y agoIf it's a known issue? Or if it's a potential issue? All that will happen is that the second hand value of Apple devices will go down, because recyclers will assume X % are basically scrap.
- lovich 4y agoThey’re talking about it to the reporters? How is it not a known issue at this point?
- benj111 4y agoNo I mean if you buy 100 macbooks some will be locked and essentially worthless. In that case the value of the entire batch will be lower. So yes it's a known issue. But for each individual MacBook, it's a potential issue.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- 4y ago
- krisoft 4y ago> Nothing is said about stolen property. Yes. And what is argued is that they should talk about stolen property. Because if they got the laptops legitimately they should ask the original owners to unlock them. If they can't or won't then something is suspicious. The laptops being stolen is the leading suspicion.
- p_l 4y agoProperly wiping FMM is, in my experience, beyond most owners, especially of they aren't mainly on mac and thus might no longer have access to apple id they used. In fact, there was a period of time when depending on latest os version and hw version, the steps changed. The one time I bought a mac personally, the reseller tried to follow the correct procedure... But they used an outdated one. Contacting previous owner led to threats of litigation for phone call mobbing.
- coder543 4y agoAny Macs made in the past 5 years require exactly one step: clicking "Erase All Content and Settings", which is exactly the button anyone would push when trying to wipe a machine before giving it to someone else. Things may have been more complicated before that, but Apple has made it as easy as it possibly can be now without telling thieves to just start grabbing every Mac they see.
- p_l 4y agoNot past 5 years - MBP 2018 with Catalina didn't unlock when using that. It's possible that it was a bug, but after previous owner nearly threatened lawsuit for "phone mobbing" (I wasn't the first person trying to call them to remove it from FMM) I kinda gave up. Needed to use the machine right away and broken FMM belonging to locked-out Apple ID didn't stop me from that.
- coder543 4y agoYes, past 5 years. That’s what the Apple documentation says, since it says it applies to any Mac that was T2 or newer. That doesn’t mean that it would have worked this way 5 years ago. Software improvements with macOS have definitely made the process simpler than it used to be. "Erase All Content and Settings" did not exist in macOS Catalina. Back then, you had to manually reboot into recovery and reinstall the OS that way, which unfortunately did nothing for Activation Lock, and was a confusingly advanced procedure to expect end users to perform in the first place. Now, someone just has to go into settings and click that button and macOS will handle everything. It's exactly like wiping an iPhone, including using the same button name. Apple has done what they can to make this as user friendly as it can be now.
- traceroute66 4y ago> Responsible recyclers and refurbishers wipe the data from used devices before selling them on. In these cases, the data is wiped, but cannot be assigned to a new user, making them effectively worthless. I'm sorry but this is bullshit too. I have sold my fair share of old Apple devices via so-called "responsible recyclers and refurbishers". When submitting the form on the website, they all have statements in BIG RED CAPITAL LETTERS saying "please logout from Apple iCloud before sending us your device". Most of them also have terms and conditions saying they won't pay out and/or will return devices where activation lock is still enabled.
- seanmcdirmid 4y agoApple and T-mobile requires this also for their own buyback program. I assume they are going to be reusing the phones/watch/... in another context.
- Scoundreller 4y ago> Bumstead and others are dismantling them and selling the parts. Given Apple’s reluctance to sell spare parts, this isn’t a bad business. The logic board is just one part. The keyboard, trackpad, lcd, battery and a few other boards have quite a lot of value. Logic boards are fairly reliable in practice. What’s going to suck is when you can’t build a Frankenstein laptop as Apple marries more and more parts together. “Oh, this keyboard didn’t come with this lcd from the factory, no F key or red for you!”
- seanmcdirmid 4y agoThis still sounds great! If thieves know they can't get more than scrap value for a MacBook, they will more likely search out other targets (like PCs) to make their drug money. Definitely a point in my book for buying Apple.
- tinus_hn 4y agoSmart recycling centers and refurbished, like Apple, don’t take possession of MacBooks with Activation Lock turned on. Legitimate people can easily turn it off.