7 ms·

I'm remodeling my place right now. You're totally right, the building codes are a lot more complex and there is more 'work' to do as a result. No more just hidi

I'm remodeling my place right now. You're totally right, the building codes are a lot more complex and there is more 'work' to do as a result. No more just hiding electrical boxes in the walls. Heh. That said, the products being used have improved a lot. Things like PEX tubing for plumbing (instead of copper) and glue on walls for showers (over doing tile work), make some aspects go a lot faster. Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention vinyl plank flooring... omg, so easy and the results look and function great.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
The big builders like DR Horton and Lennar target build times of 100 days per home that meets minimum code requirements, which is pretty good productivity. A community of 100 homes can be up and running in 2 years.
- nradov 4y ago
  And that 100 days target is mainly for achieving optimal efficiency. If you want to optimize for time it's totally possible to go from an empty lot to a finished house in under a week, provided that all the workers, inspectors, and materials are available.
- dumpsterlid 4y ago
  [dead]
- conductr 4y ago
  Requires a ton of overhead at the planning / pre-construction phases. That’s only amortized out if you built a ton of volume which these do. It’s also why you may only have a choice of 8 floor plans even though it’s a neighborhood of 500 homes.
matwood 4y ago
PEX is great. I highly recommend keeping some shark bites and spare pieces of PEX around, as it's easy to do repairs on your own if you have an issue.
- joezydeco 4y ago
  I live in an area where the plumbing is soldered copper and the wiring is all in steel conduit. PEX, ProPress, Sharkbites, Romex... it's all just a little scary to me.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    I seriously can't recommend this guy enough for general repair/building work... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnorhjQR4zJkT7AVNhu395Q/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnorhjQR4zJkT7AVNhu395Q/vid... Friendly, super knowledgable, takes the fear out of the DIY. For electrical, I do a lot myself, but when it came to running a 50amp line + breaker panel inside my place (which also required outdoor ladder work) to replace the steel conduit indoors, I just hired a professional even though it was very expensive.
    - joezydeco 4y ago
      It's not the DIY aspect^, it's the idea of ProPress joint sitting pressurized behind a wall for a decade. ^ I'm knowledgeable enough to do my own wiring and plumbing, but pay for licensed/bonded contractors instead. I sleep better at night and my insurance company probably does as well.
      - latchkey 4y ago
        Up to you, but it honestly really isn't that much of an issue and I'd trust a simple properly crimped joint (which is easily visually inspected with a simple tool) a heck of a lot more than a welded one that is impossible to see what the inside looks like... um, did I put the right amount of flux on? did I know to use the 1/2 of solder to 1/2 of pipe trick? As far as insurance companies... I bought an old place... I'm finding all sorts of stuff that isn't up to code (hidden electrical boxes, in the floor!, with wire nuts and not even twisted together wire and not even grounded properly)... I'm bringing it up to code, with modern products... in a court of law, it is going to be hard for them to argue against me.
      - matwood 4y ago
Der_Einzige 4y ago
Copper is superior. I specifically went out of my way to find a house with large swaths of the plumbing done with copper. Pretty neat to have anti-microbial properties built in.
- xyzzyz 4y ago
  Copper inferior for productivity, which is what we are talking about here.
- _Adam 4y ago
  My pipes are all copper, and the hot water contains a non trivial amount of lead (from the solder used to join the pipes). I had it tested - around 20 ppb. We don't drink or cook with the hot water, but in theory if the plumbing was PEX we could.
  - Der_Einzige 4y ago
    What year was your house built? I really hope this is not a risk on things built after 2000 (or 1980?)
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      Lead flux went away like 45 years ago. But sometimes galvanized pipe has some amount of lead in the zinc coating, and a mixed cooper/galvanized installation can accelerate corrosion. Post-Flint, lead is the new asbestos. Because the standard is zero tolerance, there’s alot of noise on the topic. PEX is great, but I’d personally always go for cooper if I could afford it. We tend to learn new things about plastic and risks over time.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      From 1986-2011 the EPA/congress defined "lead free" pipes as containing no more than 8% lead. In 1996, they banned plumbing that is not "lead free" from being sold. In 2011, the "lead free" definition was strengthened to a weighted average of 0.25%.
  - 4y ago
switch007 4y ago
Those glue on walls seemed to be priced at “we know how much tiling costs”. £36m2 (cheapest I could find on a site similar to Home Depot) for some composite plastic seems crazy. They have some double that price too.
- latchkey 4y ago
  Yes, they know the value and have priced accordingly. ~$800usd vs. tile+labor. Definitely a product that is ripe for disruption. There aren't even many manufacturers.
  - runnerup 4y ago
    > Definitely a product that is ripe for disruption. There aren't even many manufacturers. These two statements may be related. It’s not worth deploying capital to compete if the additional competition drives profits margins to zero. Better to deploy that capital somewhere it gets better expected returns. This anti-competitive logic seems very widespread these days with such centralized global supply chains and consolidated retail chains. Not a lot of room for me to deploy a small amount of capital to create a small-medium sized manufacturing facility of this stuff to chip away at 10-50% of the demand around the edges of the marginal profits. Mainly because it would be difficult to get my products into Home Depot and Lowe’s if I can’t supply their whole national chain. And that’s assuming Home Depot and Lowe’s haven’t agreed to any exclusivity with the current manufacturers which I’d need private equity money to beat.
    - latchkey 4y ago
      You're right on all fronts, my only comment is that there is a lot of room for product improvement though. $800+ for 3 sheets of plastic, and that is it, is absurd. They don't even interlock or have trim for the corners... example... https://www.homedepot.com/p/WOODBRIDGE-Haydon-32-in-x-60-in-x-96-in-Solid-Surface-3-Piece-Easy-Up-Adhesive-Alcove-Shower-Wall-Surround-in-High-Gloss-White-HWP4300/314842961 https://www.homedepot.com/p/WOODBRIDGE-Haydon-32-in-x-60-in-... Of course adding those items would cost even more, so it is a bit of a race to zero. That said, if you can get a following by homebuilders and into every single new housing project, it might be worth it. I'm sure having some sort of inside track advantage there would be necessary too. None of which I personally have, but as an end user of this stuff, I'd be more than happy to support and provide feedback on.
frankus 4y ago
The great thing about PEX is that they made an expensive* tool that makes joining pipes like 90% less skill-intensive. I'd love to see something similar done for electric wiring. I'm picturing something like an electrical box that you can directly connect Romex that's been stripped with a special tool, and then a circuit-breaker-style snap-in for the actual receptacle. The parts/tools would cost more but might dramatically speed up the installation. *relatively expensive, especially in the early days.
- mike50 4y ago
  Hubbel already makes this. https://www.hubbell.com/wiringdevice-kellems/en/Products/Electrical-Electronic/Wiring-Devices/Straight-Blade-Devices/SnapConnect-Receptacles/c/2027718 https://www.hubbell.com/wiringdevice-kellems/en/Products/Ele...
  - latchkey 4y ago
    Neat but the speed up here just doesn't seem that extreme, I guess maybe if you're installing 10k of these a day. I feel like the time it takes to put the wires into the harness is just as much time as putting them straight into the receptacle and tightening the nut. I did start using wago's though... those are handy for sure.
RetpolineDrama 4y ago
>Things like PEX tubing for plumbing PEX is terrible, pretty much every commercial brand has been shown to leech petrochemicals into your water. This varies a lot based on your municipal water supply's characteristics. Unfortunately cleaner water leeches more. PEX saves megabuilders $$$ and plumbers time, but it's not good for you.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

The big builders like DR Horton and Lennar target build times of 100 days per home that meets minimum code requirements, which is pretty good productivity. A community of 100 homes can be up and running in 2 years.

nradov 4y ago
And that 100 days target is mainly for achieving optimal efficiency. If you want to optimize for time it's totally possible to go from an empty lot to a finished house in under a week, provided that all the workers, inspectors, and materials are available.
dumpsterlid 4y ago
[dead]
conductr 4y ago
Requires a ton of overhead at the planning / pre-construction phases. That’s only amortized out if you built a ton of volume which these do. It’s also why you may only have a choice of 8 floor plans even though it’s a neighborhood of 500 homes.

matwood 4y ago

PEX is great. I highly recommend keeping some shark bites and spare pieces of PEX around, as it's easy to do repairs on your own if you have an issue.

joezydeco 4y ago
I live in an area where the plumbing is soldered copper and the wiring is all in steel conduit. PEX, ProPress, Sharkbites, Romex... it's all just a little scary to me.
- latchkey 4y ago
  I seriously can't recommend this guy enough for general repair/building work... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnorhjQR4zJkT7AVNhu395Q/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnorhjQR4zJkT7AVNhu395Q/vid... Friendly, super knowledgable, takes the fear out of the DIY. For electrical, I do a lot myself, but when it came to running a 50amp line + breaker panel inside my place (which also required outdoor ladder work) to replace the steel conduit indoors, I just hired a professional even though it was very expensive.
  - joezydeco 4y ago
    It's not the DIY aspect^, it's the idea of ProPress joint sitting pressurized behind a wall for a decade. ^ I'm knowledgeable enough to do my own wiring and plumbing, but pay for licensed/bonded contractors instead. I sleep better at night and my insurance company probably does as well.
    - latchkey 4y ago
      Up to you, but it honestly really isn't that much of an issue and I'd trust a simple properly crimped joint (which is easily visually inspected with a simple tool) a heck of a lot more than a welded one that is impossible to see what the inside looks like... um, did I put the right amount of flux on? did I know to use the 1/2 of solder to 1/2 of pipe trick? As far as insurance companies... I bought an old place... I'm finding all sorts of stuff that isn't up to code (hidden electrical boxes, in the floor!, with wire nuts and not even twisted together wire and not even grounded properly)... I'm bringing it up to code, with modern products... in a court of law, it is going to be hard for them to argue against me.
    - matwood 4y ago

Der_Einzige 4y ago

Copper is superior. I specifically went out of my way to find a house with large swaths of the plumbing done with copper. Pretty neat to have anti-microbial properties built in.

xyzzyz 4y ago
Copper inferior for productivity, which is what we are talking about here.
_Adam 4y ago
My pipes are all copper, and the hot water contains a non trivial amount of lead (from the solder used to join the pipes). I had it tested - around 20 ppb. We don't drink or cook with the hot water, but in theory if the plumbing was PEX we could.
- Der_Einzige 4y ago
  What year was your house built? I really hope this is not a risk on things built after 2000 (or 1980?)
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    Lead flux went away like 45 years ago. But sometimes galvanized pipe has some amount of lead in the zinc coating, and a mixed cooper/galvanized installation can accelerate corrosion. Post-Flint, lead is the new asbestos. Because the standard is zero tolerance, there’s alot of noise on the topic. PEX is great, but I’d personally always go for cooper if I could afford it. We tend to learn new things about plastic and risks over time.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    From 1986-2011 the EPA/congress defined "lead free" pipes as containing no more than 8% lead. In 1996, they banned plumbing that is not "lead free" from being sold. In 2011, the "lead free" definition was strengthened to a weighted average of 0.25%.
- 4y ago

switch007 4y ago

Those glue on walls seemed to be priced at “we know how much tiling costs”. £36m2 (cheapest I could find on a site similar to Home Depot) for some composite plastic seems crazy. They have some double that price too.

latchkey 4y ago
Yes, they know the value and have priced accordingly. ~$800usd vs. tile+labor. Definitely a product that is ripe for disruption. There aren't even many manufacturers.
- runnerup 4y ago
  > Definitely a product that is ripe for disruption. There aren't even many manufacturers. These two statements may be related. It’s not worth deploying capital to compete if the additional competition drives profits margins to zero. Better to deploy that capital somewhere it gets better expected returns. This anti-competitive logic seems very widespread these days with such centralized global supply chains and consolidated retail chains. Not a lot of room for me to deploy a small amount of capital to create a small-medium sized manufacturing facility of this stuff to chip away at 10-50% of the demand around the edges of the marginal profits. Mainly because it would be difficult to get my products into Home Depot and Lowe’s if I can’t supply their whole national chain. And that’s assuming Home Depot and Lowe’s haven’t agreed to any exclusivity with the current manufacturers which I’d need private equity money to beat.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    You're right on all fronts, my only comment is that there is a lot of room for product improvement though. $800+ for 3 sheets of plastic, and that is it, is absurd. They don't even interlock or have trim for the corners... example... https://www.homedepot.com/p/WOODBRIDGE-Haydon-32-in-x-60-in-x-96-in-Solid-Surface-3-Piece-Easy-Up-Adhesive-Alcove-Shower-Wall-Surround-in-High-Gloss-White-HWP4300/314842961 https://www.homedepot.com/p/WOODBRIDGE-Haydon-32-in-x-60-in-... Of course adding those items would cost even more, so it is a bit of a race to zero. That said, if you can get a following by homebuilders and into every single new housing project, it might be worth it. I'm sure having some sort of inside track advantage there would be necessary too. None of which I personally have, but as an end user of this stuff, I'd be more than happy to support and provide feedback on.

frankus 4y ago

The great thing about PEX is that they made an expensive* tool that makes joining pipes like 90% less skill-intensive. I'd love to see something similar done for electric wiring. I'm picturing something like an electrical box that you can directly connect Romex that's been stripped with a special tool, and then a circuit-breaker-style snap-in for the actual receptacle. The parts/tools would cost more but might dramatically speed up the installation. *relatively expensive, especially in the early days.

mike50 4y ago
Hubbel already makes this. https://www.hubbell.com/wiringdevice-kellems/en/Products/Electrical-Electronic/Wiring-Devices/Straight-Blade-Devices/SnapConnect-Receptacles/c/2027718 https://www.hubbell.com/wiringdevice-kellems/en/Products/Ele...
- latchkey 4y ago
  Neat but the speed up here just doesn't seem that extreme, I guess maybe if you're installing 10k of these a day. I feel like the time it takes to put the wires into the harness is just as much time as putting them straight into the receptacle and tightening the nut. I did start using wago's though... those are handy for sure.

RetpolineDrama 4y ago

>Things like PEX tubing for plumbing PEX is terrible, pretty much every commercial brand has been shown to leech petrochemicals into your water. This varies a lot based on your municipal water supply's characteristics. Unfortunately cleaner water leeches more. PEX saves megabuilders $$$ and plumbers time, but it's not good for you.