21 ms·
Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools
- acallaghan 4y agoHow is this fine, but banning sale of guns not fine in these people's minds?
- crooked-v 4y agoBanning the sale of guns doesn't hurt the specific out-group they've been conditioned into hating.
- ldh0011 4y agoAnd interestingly there's a strong argument to be made that gun control has already been implemented by the conservatives of a different era to hurt a specific out-group people were conditioned into hating at the time. https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-...
- jccalhoun 4y agoAnd the same teachers they are accusing of "grooming" are the ones they would rather give guns to than restrict gun ownership...
- superkuh 4y agoGroups wanting to ban firearms and groups wanting to ban books are ideologically the same. Their back and forth petty bannings only encourage the other block to the detriment of actual human persons. Both believe their group ideologies override the rights of the individual and both are willing to use violent force of the state against people. Trying to apply rational arguments to either "side" (of the coin) is inappropriate since neither come from rational positions. But there are plenty of people against the banning of both. They're just quieter without billion dollar lobbying groups required to achieve their goal of status quo. But, if we want to be extra clear, legal minors at a public school don't have many civil rights. It's frustrating that they're treated so badly but that's the legal code. Technically it's probably legal to do this (but it should be challenged in court). Whereas adult citizens have far more clearly defined property rights; especially on their own property.
- danieltoomey 4y agoWhat is list of books? Understand zero tolerance for removing anything.
- mabbo 4y agoHey America, is everything okay down there? Y'all have some truly dystopian stuff going on there. Felony prosecution for showing kids books that the Governor didn't approve of? Yikes.
- jdlyga 4y agoNothing's ever been ok in Florida. They do their own thing down there, and we stay far away from the crazyness. Each state is semi-independent with the federal/state separation of powers. It's good for vacation though.
- srndsnd 4y agoI dunno. As the country bifurcates more and more, I'm thinking long and hard about if I want to travel to certain states. I'd rather as little of my money as possible be spent there.
- throwaway5959 4y agoDon’t worry, your federal tax dollars get routed to these states automatically.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- gadflyinyoureye 4y agoI know how you feel. I refuse to go to Virginia since they don't accept my CCW permit from Florida.
- seanw444 4y agoI don't step in non-constitutional-carry states. The good thing is that, with the exception of basically Florida, there are no states I care to visit that don't already have it. The problem is traveling to those states. I'm temporarily a felon to get there, even though it is my right to keep and bear that handgun nationally. Beats me. I will not contribute my money to a government that does not allow me my rights, and will also not disarm myself to make myself more of a juicy target just to temporarily sight-see. Not worth it. Plenty of pretty sights to see in the states that aren't ridiculous.
- jackson1442 4y agoOne of the requirements for book approval: > Appropriate for the grade level and age group for which the materials are used or made available If I was in grade school when this happened, this would have hampered my ability to learn. I was generally reading above the standard level and loved reading in class. Reading this post just makes me sad. Kids aren't getting the same opportunities I got to nurture my curiosity.
- agloeregrets 4y agoAdditionally, the content of the book has to pass rather insane content rules, including banning any description or implication of homosexuality. Wildly, they branded it as 'Parents rights' as in: "If I don't want my kid to read X...NOBODY's should". The outcome is an attempt to whitewash out topics that are inconvenient to the agenda at play to protect the agenda long term. $5 says it just makes teen pregnancy happen at higher rates btw.
- Floegipoky 4y ago> $5 says it just makes teen pregnancy happen at higher rates btw. This is a feature, not a bug.
- nerdponx 4y agoBanning books at the state level should result in revocation of any federal funding allocated for state schools.
- EForEndeavour 4y agoI'm with you in principle, but I worry that this would result in defunding the schools which need the most help: those in the most extremist states willing to accept funding revocation in response to book bans.
- nerdponx 4y agoGood point. The people imposing the book bans don't seem to care about education in the first place, and more likely than not they have some chip on their shoulder about big government anyway.
- deugtniet 4y agoIf anybody thinks this is a good idea, I'm looking forward to reading your opinions.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoIt's a bit harsh but I mean, all it boils down to is: Teachers shall teach the curriculum.
- wyldfire 4y agoThat is weird. I guess we can agree to that principle but do we need to be draconian about it? Do we need laws to make teachers focus on curriculum? Didn't you ever read a book that wasn't prescribed by the curriculum?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoI don't think so but it's Florida. I don't live in Florida. The majority in Florida must somehow be OK with this and it's their teachers and children. Don't take my nuance to mean that I approve of this or think it's a good idea.
- faster 4y agoWhy do you think the majority of Floridians are OK with this? Does it matter to American politicians that the majority of Americans are in favor of access to abortions? The noisy people and PACs who donate to campaigns are against it and that's all that matters.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago> Why do you think the majority of Floridians are OK with this? I don't know. I don't live in Florida. If it's not against the law why should I care? > Does it matter to American politicians that the majority of Americans are in favor of access to abortions? Abortion is legal in my state. ¯ \ _ ( ツ ) _ / ¯
- jasonlotito 4y ago> must be selected by a school district employee who holds a valid educational media specialist certificate, The same people who oppose freedom of speech are over here supporting DeSantis and his crusade against education and his push for bigger government.
- epicureanideal 4y agoFree speech is not the same as being able to tell other people’s kids anything you want while they’re attending a mandatory educational institution run in the name of the public. This law seems like an extreme reaction, but to what many people believe is already an extreme situation. See also: https://youtu.be/TwucVRj_mdc https://youtu.be/TwucVRj_mdc
- PuppyTailWags 4y agoWait, Florida has banned private schooling and homeschooling? That seems like a much bigger problem.
- epicureanideal 4y agoPeople shouldn’t need to take their kids out of school to avoid ideological indoctrination.
- PuppyTailWags 4y agoI mean, schooling children at all is ideological: it's literally built on the ideology that we should have an educated populace. I'm really confused by this statement.
- epicureanideal 4y agoIndoctrinating children with views that their parents would object to is not the proper purpose of public education. The vast majority of parents are happy for their children to learn reading, writing, arithmetic, and so on. Specific political views, or that people with their skin color inherited historical evil, is something else entirely.
- jf 4y agoBanning media is a great way to pique the interest of the naturally rebellious youth.
- kwhitefoot 4y agoPerhaps we should all start sending books to Florida! Or perhaps upload pirate epub copies somewhere so that the little darlings can read them on their phones.
- sedeki 4y agoCan someone provide book titles that are affected by this...?
- jasonlotito 4y agoAll books are affected by this.
- Hizonner 4y agoWhatever random book any random teacher bought or was given. The whole point is that they have to remove ALL books that aren't approved through The Process. Of course there's not going to be a list of those. There isn't some master list of books that are lying around classrooms everywhere.
- thundergolfer 4y agoThe rules are whitelisting not blacklisting oriented, so it’s easier to give the set of list that would be allowed, and every other book in existence outside that allowed set is potentially blocked. The rules would block a book like East of Eden. Pornographic elements and too advanced for kids (even if it isn’t)
- burkaman 4y agohttps://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/09/19/here-are-the-books-banned-from-central-florida-schools/ https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/09/19/here-are-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Tango_Makes_Three https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Tango_Makes_Three - https://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-school-district-bans-book-about-real-life-gay-penguin-relationship-citing-parental-rights-in-education-law https://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-school-district-bans-...
- martythemaniak 4y agofrom another comment: https://nypost.com/2022/04/22/floridas-banned-math-textbooks-include-racial-bias-graph/ https://nypost.com/2022/04/22/floridas-banned-math-textbooks... So you should teach how to read graphs in Math. But if those graphs show that racial prejudice exists, that's a felony. Simple.
- Pulcinella 4y agoIn Florida, school librarians are called "media specialists" and hold media specialist certificates. A rule passed by the Florida Department of Education last week states that a "library media center" includes any books made available to students, including in classrooms. This means that classroom libraries that are curated by teachers, not librarians, are now illegal. Prepare for “route around the damage” moment where districts are going to start requiring teachers to get media specialist certified just to avoid the legal headache. I am not a lawyer, but the fact that it is a felony seems particularly aggressive to me. Usually stuff like this (related to how a school is run) is usually administrative law and the school district would be the one responsible for insuring that it is enforced (so they might fire a teacher for non-compliance, but it would be the district itself being taken to administrative court by the state government for not following the law, rather than a specific teacher). This is also just bad in general, but the fact that the law criminally targets teachers rather than being put into the boring administrative code just shows how politically and ideologically motivated this is.
- yamtaddle 4y agoClassroom libraries are a big deal. Every step taken that makes a teacher's job riskier, less pleasant, or less like what they want to be doing (teaching kids, without having to worry about whether some plainly-positive action is legal), drives good teachers out of the profession.
- unshavedyak 4y ago> drives good teachers out of the profession. Working as designed. They cannot possibly be so ignorant as to claim good intentions.
- UnpossibleJim 4y agoNever underestimate the ignorance of the mob.
- mindslight 4y ago
- jdlyga 4y agoDoes Florida know about the internet yet?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- nobody9999 4y ago>Does Florida know about the internet yet? Yes[0]. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/24/22451425/florida-social-media-moderation-facebook-twitter-deplatforming https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/24/22451425/florida-social-m...
- thundergolfer 4y agoThis is a remarkably crude and revanchist move from Republican politicians. It’s embarrassing but mostly bluster and spectacle. It won’t work, and there are already for more effective and sophisticated forms of media control wielded by their allies (See Jane Meyer’s Dark Money, or Messengers of the Right). But at the end of the day it’s school-wars red meat for the rubes, and that’s good enough for De Santis.
- mschuster91 4y ago> It’s embarrassing but mostly bluster and spectacle. It won’t work What they are doing is plain FUD - fear, uncertainty and doubt. And hell yes it works. Vague laws absolutely work, just look at recent cases where women had to wait days for a life-saving abortion because of insanely vague laws, e.g. [1]. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/Health/idaho-woman-shares-19-day-miscarriage-tiktok-states/story?id=96363578 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/idaho-woman-shares-19-day-misc...
- thundergolfer 4y agoAgree that it spreads FUD, but I mean it won't work as children can still trivially access banned books if they desire. The much greater threat to children's reading comes not from the particular books available in their school classroom, but from other factors: parental literacy and reading habits; literacy of child; number of books in household, literate culture of child's milieu.
- karmasimida 4y agoWhat about kindle books
- MentallyRetired 4y agoThe article states that kids can no longer bring their own books or e-readers.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- unnouinceput 4y agoAnd you do what if a kid does it? Send the kid to jail? Good luck with that. Send the teacher to jail? Good luck with that too. Confiscate kid's e-reader? Olalala, that's heaven for the kid's family lawyer, gonna milk from the state 1M USD in a blink.
- karmasimida 4y agoThis is not going to be enforceable.
- efitz 4y agoWe live in a world of “sanctuary this” and “Do not comply with that” and “I will not enforce the other”. In other words, we live in a world where a nontrivial percentage of the population, especially many in influential positions, have decided that they don’t need to obey laws they disagree with. How else are you going to get people to comply with the law? Note that I am not asserting that any law is “good” or “bad”. But the proper way to handle bad laws is to win elections and change them, or use public sentiment to pressure lawmakers to change them.
- crooked-v 4y agoThe kinds of "using public sentiment" that actually get things often done tend to involve willfully and intentionally breaking the law, as wildcat strikers, civil rights marchers, and sit-in protestors can attest.
- mindslight 4y agoThe largest topics you're alluding to (sanctuary cities and marijuana regulations) have to do with federal versus state jurisdiction. True advocates of small government support states' rights over the preposterous power grab of Wickard v. Filburn. Especially when it manifests as states not using their own resources to enforce the otherwise mostly unenforceable desires of the federal government.
- jleyank 4y agohttps://medium.com/la-mia-biblioteca/where-they-burn-books-they-will-ultimately-burn-people-also-34b835d13b7d https://medium.com/la-mia-biblioteca/where-they-burn-books-t...
- floridaman12 4y ago[flagged]
- OrvalWintermute 4y agoThe problem is that some of the libraries are hosting sexually explicit material that is accessible to younger children that some parents claim is sexually grooming the children. Some of these books have been included on reading lists. The book that is the poster child for this is the cartoon book Gender Queer https://www.westernjournal.com/book-depicting-child-pornography-keeps-appearing-school-libraries-now-know-responsible/ https://www.westernjournal.com/book-depicting-child-pornogra...
- jonathankoren 4y agoThe fact is the VAST majority of these books are not sexually explicit, nor “grooming” in any way. The books simply admit that non-straight people exist. A much more representative list is https://pen.org/report/banned-usa-growing-movement-to-censor-books-in-schools/ https://pen.org/report/banned-usa-growing-movement-to-censor... which tracks the 2021-2022 school year. Applying this “sexually explicit” logic, then your left saying the network television comedy “Modern Family” is indistinguishable to the director’s cut of “Eyes Wide Shut”. It’s straight up propaganda, meant to stigmatize non-straights as child predators. It’s not just a lie. It’s hate speech, spread for crass political gain. And it has no place in any society.
- jeffbee 4y ago[flagged]
- jeffbee 4y agoYou know, sexually explicit material can be pretty beneficial for teens. The book that your ridiculous panic-mongering "news" outlet—and I am truly sorry that you have been exposed to a publication as rotten as this one—uses graphic depiction of a sex act to show how an adult couple—not "child pornography" as your Western Journal bozos claim—work out that one person wants to try a sex act that the other person does not enjoy. That's an important thing for teens to learn!
- panzagl 4y agoThank you for providing a concrete example of what's being targeted.
- 762236 4y agoWhen was the last time a kid said, gee, I'll read the books randomly lying around the classroom?
- yamtaddle 4y agoAll the time. Source: was a kid, and know lots of teachers.
- winter_blue 4y agoI used to do that, both at home and outside, incl. in libraries, in stores, etc.
- larrik 4y agoBased on my kids' experiences: all the time.
- panzagl 4y agoEven better, most of those books laying around are purchased by the teachers themselves out of their own money. So if my wife had a kid who's fascinated by bulldozers, she'll go to a thrift store and look for books on bulldozers so he could read something that interested them. Which if we lived in Manatee County Florida would be a felony because she'd be grooming him to screw a bulldozer, apparently.
- the_only_law 4y agoI gotta say it would be tempting to do something like this just to watch the fascist bureaucrats’ reactions.
- mindslight 4y agoThe reaction where you get a court summons in the mail, unless you apologize profusely and profess your allegiance to the Party? Or the reaction where they take your picture while you're screwing the bulldozer, to fuel their strawman political campaigns? The entire point of laws like this is to empower the bureaucrats with a credible truncheon, so that you can't just laugh away their self-important nonsense. "Not so funny now is it, funny man?"
- yalogin 4y agoTeachers are already paid little and dealing with the stress of managing large classrooms with little pay has to be turning off a lot of teachers away from that career path. With laws like this our future pipeline of teachers is essentially getting gutted. I guess republicans are winning on both fronts here. One, they pander hard to the extreme base and two, they kill public education and make private education more attractive.
- analog31 4y ago"I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them." -- Jerry Falwell
- hithereagain 4y agoHe did not.
- hezag 4y ago> If the book is available in the district libraries, that means it was approved by a media specialist and can be made available to students again. But any book not currently held in the district libraries must be individually evaluated and approved by a librarian. So... It's an allowlist and not a denylist. Even worse.
- nickpeterson 4y agoThis is such a great hacker news observation about this ;)
- netsharc 4y agoI remember reading a description of denylists (everything is allowed except for...) as "American style" and allowlists (only these things are allowed) as "Soviet style".
- yencabulator 4y agoThat's pretty fitting, considering how much of the Russian playbook US republicans are using...
- ldbooth 4y ago... when a political power claiming "freedom" or "liberty" reveals it's only free within the approved ideology ...
- jmclnx 4y agoWell that will increase job prospects for the Kids in my State. The poor kids in that county will not be able to think about critical issues. In my State, kids are taught about various opposing view points and how to make informed decisions. In that county, now it seems to be "my way or the highway". So, I see kids were I live being more successful in life then the kids in that county. So, thank you Manatee County for helping out my area.
- indymike 4y agoSounds like a scheme to force schools to only buy from specific publishers... dressed up as a social program. This stuff has to stop.
- panzagl 4y agoDon't know why you're being downvoted as the role of educational companies seems to be pretty large in the standardization and homogenization of schools and curriculums. Compared to the large publishers most school districts are pretty small fish- they don't have time to ensure compliance with all the regulations and standards, so their only choice is to buy a curriculum from a publisher. And of course buying a curriculum is not a one time expense- it's all licensed/subscription based and basically a direct pipeline from local taxpayers' pockets to large corporate publishers.
- indymike 4y agoThis is exactly the situation. The censorship part of the story is a Trojan Horse for a terribly one-sided deal, in favor of the publisher, for every school district in Florida.
- ldh0011 4y agoOn the subject of political graft and schools, my Florida high school purchased *every single student* a pair of cheap earbuds for a *single* audio question on a standardized test everyone in the school had to take. Probably in 2015 or 2016. Pretty sure some politician was friends with or related to someone who stood to make money off those earbuds... edit: everyone in my grade at least
- ccn0p 4y agoA lot of people here saying there's "no support for this". Let's not forget that the governor was re-elected by a landslide in the latest midterms even after the "don't say gay bill" which was the last thing that "nobody supported". Seems like the people in Florida are saying something different.
- agentdrtran 4y ago"voters" and "people" are two different groups, of which there can be notable difference the harder is it to vote.
- anon291 4y agoHow to vote: (1) register, (2) vote. What is difficult about this? If you cannot follow through from 1 -> 2, you really should not vote.
- dvlsg 4y agoVoter disenfranchisement has been part of the playbook for a long time now. Take this issue for example - if this passes, and a teacher gets a felony from suggesting a book off of the pre approved list, they probably can't vote anymore.
- ccn0p 4y agoMost felons in Florida are allowed to vote [1]. [1] https://www.findlaw.com/voting/my-voting-guide/can-felons-vote-in-florida.html https://www.findlaw.com/voting/my-voting-guide/can-felons-vo...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tzs 4y agoLess than half is not "most". 1.4 million felons were covered by the Amendment the voters approved to restore felon voting rights, but as your link states a few months later the legislature passed a law to limit that which made 775000 of those felons no longer eligible.
- vmilner 4y agoI’m wondering how many encyclopaedias make the cut. Bound to be something in any large one that gets it banned.
- whywhywhydude 4y agoWhat’s going on with the politicians in Southern states? Why are they spending time making these pointless laws that often infringe on the rights of their constituents? How are people okay with being dictated what books their children can read?
- crooked-v 4y agoHate politics need an underclass to target and oppress. In the US that used to be Black people, but then Black people became too popular and too well supported; and then for a while it was gay people, but then then gay people became too popular and too well supported; and now the target is transgender people and gender nonconformists. Consider the quote from Lyndon B. Johnson: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." Now just swap out the hated group. That's why people are okay with it.
- agloeregrets 4y ago> and then for a while it was gay people, but then then gay people became too popular and too well supported; and now the target is transgender people and gender nonconformists. This law explicitly bans discussion of Gay people.
- GordonS 4y agoWhich for any western democracy in 2022/2023, is just... mind-bogglingly backwards.
- mfer 4y agoContext as to what's happening in US schools... This highlights part of the growing movement and disagreement around culture shaping through kids. To highlight this, if you take a look at school of educations mission statement[1] > Through commitment to innovation, social justice, excellence in teaching and research, and partnerships, the School of Teacher Education will position itself as a national leader in shaping the next generation of educators to be agents of transformation in an ever‐changing world. Other schools [2] in the US are more explicit on change... > School of Education devoted to developing civically engaged children, youth, and adults for a diverse and inclusive society. There are many parents who are not supportive of the drive for change. Often pushing views that parents don't agree with. Books are a subtle way to bring in change. The ideas in them. Especially as elementary age kids who are impressionable learn to read from these books. The disagreements between parents and some teachers around this is at the heart of laws like this. [1] https://ccie.ucf.edu/teachered/mission/ https://ccie.ucf.edu/teachered/mission/ [2] https://soe.umich.edu/about#mission-vision https://soe.umich.edu/about#mission-vision
- schulboy 4y ago“Back in my day…” there was a crusade against Christian prayer and what not. Keep things neutral - to the point that teachers who were otherwise obviously religious would completely dodge the topic when my intellectually curious atheist self asked on topics. Now we’re back at teachers here-and-they’re wanting to assert their belief system in the classroom and activist parents seeking to eliminate this issue… only the script is a bit flipped. So, the question becomes should we keep schools neutral or not?
- mfer 4y ago> So, the question becomes should we keep schools neutral or not? What is the role of school? Is the role to prep kids to go to college? Is it to drive social change? Is it to teach what kids need to perform common jobs? Is it to teach kids how to have skills to operate as adults (like managing their personal finances)? These are questions we don't agree on as a culture. A bunch of debate is rooted in disagreement as to what these should be.
- arctic360 4y agoWhat’s the legal definition surrounding “book”? Can the teachers hand out a “leaflet” with a QR code to the unapproved text?
- zeroonetwothree 4y agoI wouldn’t want to base my potential prison sentence on this interpretation
- cratermoon 4y agoThis is a real example of censorship in violation of the first amendment.
- zeroonetwothree 4y agoIt doesn’t violate the 1st amendment because government is allowed to censor their own speech. But certainly it is censorship.
- cratermoon 4y agoSo you're saying teachers give up their first amendment rights on the job?
- zzzeek 4y ago"Free Speech Absolutist" Elon Musk endorses Ron DeSantis for president: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/26/elon-musk-ron-desantis-election/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/26/elon-musk-r...
- radu_floricica 4y agoRegular reminder that: - WFH is a thing now - school from home was tried and found to be shitty if pretending they're still in school except by Zoom - but functional enough to be a point on the Overton window. - ChatGPT is a thing. I wouldn't even attempt to save the current educational system. At all. Just lobby for legislation that facilitates getting diplomas by exams, then wait at most a year for completely new alternatives to appear.
- slibhb 4y agoThis is part of an ongoing conflict between schools and parents. E.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/us/gender-identity-students-parents.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/us/gender-identity-studen... While banning books is creepy and unproductive, the schools have exceeded their warrant and it's no surprise that the pendulum is swinging back.
- crooked-v 4y agoThe schools have "exceeded their warrant"... how, exactly? You linked an article about schools with a standard policy of allowing kids to use preferred names and gender expressions. So what? It's a complete nothingburger that's only notable because kids these days tend to be accepting enough for their peers to be comfortable doing that when in the past they weren't.
- slibhb 4y agoA teacher from the article is quoted: "My job, which is a public service, is to protect kids," said Olivia Garrison, a history teacher in Bakersfield, Calif., who is nonbinary, who has helped students socially transition at school without their parents' knowledge. "Sometimes, they need protection from their own parents." The idea that teachers should be "protecting kids from their own parents" by affirming their chosen identity without their parents' knowledge illustrates what I'm talking about. Even if you agree with the sentiment (which I would say is "exceeding their warrant"), parents aren't going to take that sitting down.
- Jsebast23 4y agoThis is the same people that ban the Bible or Dr Seuss. When the State Government bans gay-sex books meant to sexualize elementary school students, they act like it's Plato or Hemingway who are banned. Most people in this forum really need to take a good, sober look at what's really going on here.
- wilsonnb3 4y agoThis article is better IMO: https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/education/2023-01-18/state-ponders-scrutiny-school-library-books-warns-staff-violations-could-be-crimes https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/education/2023-01-18/state-pon... Includes a link to the law that teachers would be violating: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0847/Sections/0847.012.html#:~:text=(2)%20A%20person's%20ignorance%20of,a%20violation%20of%20this%20section http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Displ....
- gregwebs 4y agoThe last paragraph of this article explains that the rest of the article is kind of FUD or at least something to try to understand about why one county is taking a different interpretation than the rest. > This interpretation of the law runs directly counter to the arguments the DeSantis administration is making in court. In federal court filings, lawyers representing DeSantis insist that the Parental Rights in Education Act does not apply to library books. Nevertheless, the DeSantis administration, through its media specialist training, is encouraging a much more expansive interpretation of the law.
- smt88 4y agoAbsolutely not FUD. DeSantis is trying to enforce an unconstitutional, fascist law without a court ruling it as such. It's not surprising that he is saying one thing in court and then doing another outside of it.
- rolph 4y agoif the classroom is that dangerous, why should anyone be compelled to leave thier children there for the day?
- kwhitefoot 4y agoThis would have caused an uproar when I was at school. We organized student strikes for less in junior high school (southern England 1960s).
- thewellis2 4y agoWell, Section 28 happened here in the UK in the 80's, and that was targetting teachers (and local councils) that didn't toe the central government's homophobic agenda.
- kwhitefoot 4y agoYes, I know. That was abhorrent too.
- Jsebast23 4y agoYou organized student strikes in the 60's because they wouldn't let you read gay-sex children's books in school?
- kwhitefoot 4y agoNo. We organized them because we were promised student representation on the school council but it turned out to be in name only and our representatives were simply ignored and kept in the dark about everything.
- jonathankoren 4y agoMy high school library had “Tropic of Cancer” and “Tropic of Capricorn”. I wish I realized just how fucking awesome that was at the time. Instead, I just looked at them and thought, “We’ll, those are odd titles.” Kudos Mrs Proctor, wherever you are.
- civilized 4y agoMy son and daughter get books from the school library every week. I would be so upset if our state's government stopped that. My heart goes out to normal Floridians facing these lunatics in power, backed by a delusional mob coked up on fake news, threatening to make their kids' teachers felons if they let the kids have books. Sounds like Afghanistan not America.
- Dig1t 4y agoThis is a backlash to these kind of books: https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1615866743444078593 https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1615866743444078593 https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1613623613156098049 https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1613623613156098049 https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1612817285676244997 https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1612817285676244997 https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1609719090456793089/photo/1 https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1609719090456793089/... Please don't attack me for posting something from this Twitter account, I don't endorse them, I'm just providing an example of what the backlash is actually a response to.
- jeffbee 4y agoOh no, teens might see a cartoon dick! Alert the police!
- crooked-v 4y agoI assume that the downvoting comes from the crowd unable to distinguish that different books have different target demographics and who are thereby convinced that first graders are being forced to read This Book Is Gay until the rainbow hypno-rays have corrupted them.
- crooked-v 4y agoSo... one book about a boy who wants to imitate mermaids, a couple of books that acknowledge to children in a non-detailed way that transgender people exist at all, and books like Gender Queer [1] and This Book Is Gay [2], which are targeted at the junior high and up age group and have basically the same level of explicit detail as the sex ed courses those kids have already gone through (but are, I guess, somehow extra evil because they feature gay people). Looks like the standard brand of 'gender nonconformity is the same thing as making third-graders watch porn' bullshit to me. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Queer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Queer [2]: https://amazon.com/This-Book-Gay-Juno-Dawson/dp/1492617830 https://amazon.com/This-Book-Gay-Juno-Dawson/dp/1492617830
- 4y ago
- kjghkjghkjgh 4y agoWhy isn't the OP being called out for the misleading title?
- pfdietz 4y agoWaiting for some court to rule that public education with these restrictions violates the first amendment.
- hotpotamus 4y agoPretty sure the people who write these laws are way ahead of you on packing the courts with judges who agree with their positions.
- cat_plus_plus 4y agoThe law only applies to visual or graphic sexual content. I would hope everyone agrees that providing certain sexual materials to kids of certain age should be a felony. I hope everyone also agrees that sometime before puberty one should get appropriate sex education with approval of parents or guardians or say a judge if parents are proven to be completely unreasonable. I see the problem of Florida law being too vague and possibly covering benign content like depiction of a kiss. But I also understand that there have been horrible abuses by teachers, like elementary school students being treated to a graphic description of a blow job. Just hope everyone understands there is more to the story than what might be claimed by one side. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0847/Sections/0847.012.html http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Displ...
- lolimagine 4y ago[dead]
- kadoban 4y ago> (b) Any book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced, or sound recording that contains any matter defined in s. 847.001, explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement, or sexual conduct and that is harmful to minors. That's ambiguous as hell. Give that it's Florida, I'd expect them to have a biased view of what's "harmful" as well. That also rules out several of the best books I read as a child (probably, who knows).
- cat_plus_plus 4y agoSure, and as I said ambiguity is a problem. However, 50 shades of gray for elementary schoolers is ALSO a problem.
- kadoban 4y agoIt's a problem mostly because it has unhealthy romantic relationships in it that aren't examined well. The sex is largely besides the point. Any kid who wants to has seen things far more graphic on the internet. What are we protecting kids from exactly? That book would be a problem even if it were rated G.
- LatteLazy 4y agoWhat a great object lesson in Fascism.
- lolimagine 4y ago[dead]
- kthejoker2 4y agoThis has nothing to do with schools, or gender conformity, or obscenity, or teacher shortages. This is a political stunt, a troll post. It's purposely vague and ill-defined to create a vacuum upon which people with strong opinions can file in from the extremes ("don't say gay", "you're supporting pornography", "you're a groomer", "you're a fascist".) But what it mostly is is a classic culture war distraction from the real underlying structural issues with America today: economic and social inequality, the weaponization of politics, and the simply mindboggling amount of graft and corporate interference into our legal and political systems. As a divisive tactic that limits people's attention to much more pressing matters, it's cheap at twice the price.
- anotherevan 4y agoTime to start banning that Bible - The Great Bible Battle https://www.patreon.com/posts/40531144 https://www.patreon.com/posts/40531144