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Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces physiological arousal

314 points by madpen 4y ago

squeegee_scream 4y ago
The how-to is buried pretty deep for those like me who are unfamiliar with cyclic sighing (aka psychological sighing or double inhale) > Participants were informed they should sit down in a chair or, if they prefer, to lie down, and to set a timer for 5 min. Then they were told to inhale slowly, and that once their lungs were expanded, to inhale again once more to maximally fill their lungs -- even if the second inhale was shorter in duration and smaller in volume than the first, and then to slowly and fully exhale all their breath. They were told to repeat this pattern of breathing for 5 min. They were also informed that ideally, both inhales would be performed via their nose and the exhale would be performed via their mouth, but that if they preferred, they were welcome to do the breathing entirely through their nose. They were also informed that it is normal for the second inhale to be briefer than the first.
- HighlandSpring 4y ago
  The second sigh sounds like it may, in effect, progressively overload your lung capacity. Felt good too
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
rolph 4y ago
this sounds alot like pranayama
- deleted 4y ago
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- reactspa 4y ago
  Regarding the "cyclic sighing" technique (called "Physiological sighing" in the graphic): I have been doing it for a couple of years without knowing it was a thing. I have studied common Pranayama techniques, and I stumbled upon it via trial and error. I do it because I find it anxiety-reducing. I used to refer to it internally as "double inhale breathing". After reading the OP article, and noting that they referred to "Yogic breathing", I decided to do a little research and discovered that this technique is called "Dirga Pranayama" or "three part breathing". The authors should have mentioned it in their article.
DFHippie 4y ago
The one that works is the one that people do without special training: sighing*. There had to be some reason why people sigh. * Yes, this is an odd sort of sighing, but it isn't that different from spontaneous sighing. And people also hyperventilate on their own, but mostly preparatory to diving or holding their breath for some other reason.
- klyrs 4y ago
  > And people also hyperventilate on their own, but mostly preparatory to diving or holding their breath for some other reason. It's common for people to hyperventilate in the midst of a panic attack, and the common advice I've seen is to encourage a panicked person to take deep breaths. Strange to see it as a consideration for beneficial effects. As a kid I'd hyperventilate to feel dizzy because it was fun (oops was I getting high?)
- kbutler 4y ago
  Except sighing isn't generally a natural response to stress, but a response to boredom. So maybe it's consciously emulating a natural behavior matching a lower-stress state, to help shift to that state. From personal experience, the deep inhalation preceding a sigh (extended exhalation) is also helpful.
  - nobodyandproud 4y ago
    A sigh of frustration is pretty common. Biting one’s tongue and taking a breathe.
rojobuffalo 4y ago
It's remarkable that I so often lapse in my meditation practice when it's such a short time commitment and so consistently improves my mood. I tell myself that morning yoga is enough or a walking meditation while taking the dog out is enough - I do those every day without fail. But they're not the same as seated breath work. Why do other mood improvement habits seem more approachable, like making a cup of tea or exercise or a shower, while sitting and breathing seems harder?
- klyrs 4y ago
  > sitting and breathing seems harder? The stillness, I think. With adhd, that's my challenge anyway. The mind does not shut off, and 5 minutes can feel like forever. Even thinking about it makes me squirm. But I took a yoga class once that did breathwork, and with guidance, I found the ability to focus my entire attention on my breath; the action and the feeling of it.
  - akomtu 4y ago
    It's one of the preparation methods: if you have too many thoughts focus on your breath, if you're addicted to pleasures focus on disguisting things, and so on. What happens if you just ignore your thoughts, if you watch them like images in a boring movie? Thoughts compel you to follow them, but you dont have to.
- nvader 4y ago
  I've heard meditation described as "motionless ju-jitsu with yourself". In the absence of any obstacle, the only opponent is you, but by definition you are equal in strength to yourself. So meditation can devolve into a heated evenly-matched contest of wills, which is extremely draining.
  - rojobuffalo 4y ago
    Oh man I love that description! It makes me think how exercise is like a contest against physical limits, which are knowable. Hard work leads to heavier lifts or longer runs. But when you kick your own ass in meditation, the limits are more ambiguous and progress isn't so linear.
JaggerFoo 4y ago
I like that they described how each method is performed. The mindful meditation method was a bit different from what I've used, but something I can adopt. So cyclic sighing can replace mindful meditation, except that it requires more use to reap the benefits. So now Cyclic Sighing, Mindful Meditation and Binaural Beats are techniques I can call upon in times of stress. Cheers
- deleted 4y ago
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williamscales 4y ago
I have pretty severe anxiety at this time and these breathing practices have really helped me get out of a bad situation without medication: 1) Box breathing 2) Yoganidra (even if I’m not trying to fall asleep)
- tsujamin 4y ago
  +1 box breathing
  - throwaway378037 4y ago
    It has helped me a lot at times too, even helping a little with long covid/post-viral symptoms, sample size of 1 but it really doesn’t hurt to try
- jawon 4y ago
  Yoga Nidra for sure. Except it can be really effective at putting you to sleep. I now have trouble listening to any track on this album without passing out: https://open.spotify.com/album/00Dzgh60bmNigM9fvckKa3?si=sqO2odumQVeqHZwrne0arQ https://open.spotify.com/album/00Dzgh60bmNigM9fvckKa3?si=sqO...
  - wruza 4y ago
    Seems like it shares key ideas with “body scan” method combined with don’t move rule. Or maybe it’s just another name for it.
staplung 4y ago
Videos describing two out of the three breath-work techniques mentioned: 1) cyclic sighing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdhqBGqiMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdhqBGqiMc 2) box breathing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEmt1Znux58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEmt1Znux58 Couldn't find anything for hyperventilation with retention. I have no idea if they match the exact mechanics that were tested so make of it what you will.
- dalys 4y ago
  Cyclic hyperventilation with retention is the same as wim hof breathing https://youtu.be/tybOi4hjZFQ https://youtu.be/tybOi4hjZFQ as I understood from Andrew Huberman
  - elmomle 4y ago
    I'm not a practitioner of Wim Hof's methods, but what was implemented in the paper is definitely not Wim Hof breathing. The paper describes 30x breaths with the inhale twice as long as the exhale, and a 15 second hold on the final exhale. Wim Hof's method has 30x equal-length inhales and exhales, and a one-minute hold on the final exhale [0]. Aside from there being a substantial difference between equal length inhales and exhales and an inhale that's twice as long as the exhale, the big idea behind Wim Hof's method is that that minute-long hold is very difficult, and trying to do it supposedly builds a certain kind of mental (really, holistic) discipline that a 15 second hold simply would not. 15 seconds is not hard unless you're pretty out of shape. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ
    - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
      The one minute hold is something that you continue to extend. It’s not one minute forever. Source: read Wim Hof book and am a practitioner
    - Sammi 4y ago
      The Wim Hof method is weirdly effective. I've never been able to hold my breath for over a minute even though I've tried. But on my second attempt at the Wim Hof method I did 2 minutes and then shortly after 4 minutes... It felt way shorter... I think the hyperventilation put me into a dissociative state.
Gatsky 4y ago
Mindfulness in this study: > Participants were informed they should sit down in a chair or, if they preferred, to lie down, and then to set a timer for 5 min. Then they were told to close their eyes and to start breathing while focusing their mental attention on their forehead region between their two eyes. They were told that if their focus drifted from that location to re-recenter their attention by focusing back first on their breath and then on the forehead region between their eyes. They were told that as thoughts arise, to recognize that as normal, refocus their attention back to their forehead region and to continue the practice until time has elapsed. Is this a legit expression of mindfulness meditation? It lacks any sort of breath modification.
- adamtemple 4y ago
  Most mindfulness paradigms teach you to notice the breath and not modify it. This excerpt is the basics of mindfulness.
  - Gatsky 4y ago
    And for only 5 minutes?
- mehphp 4y ago
  Mindfulness meditation just requires you to keep bringing your attention back to _something_. The breath is just a very convenient option.
martingoodson 4y ago
This isn't a particularly high quality study. Eg no Statistical power sample size calculation done beforehand.
guybedo 4y ago
there are many interesting breathing techniques, interestingly it usually provides benefits similar to a meditation practice. I added this one to my routines: https://routineshub.com/public/items/760bb353-35cc-483c-adce-ed6370edfa65/cyclic-sighing https://routineshub.com/public/items/760bb353-35cc-483c-adce... I also regularly practice Andrew Weil's 478 breathing https://routineshub.com/public/items/fb2c75bd-4d6d-424e-925a-d09aef429a7d/478-breathing https://routineshub.com/public/items/fb2c75bd-4d6d-424e-925a...
knaik94 4y ago
I enjoy and use this breathing technique but I haven't ever practiced or cared about mindful meditation. In my experience doing breathing exercises while doing something physical helps me way more than doing it while sitting. The most interesting result from this study was the change in the spread for HRV. I personally found that having physical markers for when to breathe in and out made it a lot easier to understand and practice. Tying yoga poses to the amount of time I hold air made is easier to track my improvements too. I imagine swimming similarly allows a more structured way to practice cyclic breathing. I was able to break an 8 minute 2k row when I did it with cyclic breathing. Nothing has improved my cardio as much as erg + controlled breathing, I use pretty short intervals. Another place cyclic breathing was crucial was when I did marching band. I played trombone so it was mandatory that I have athletic lung capacity. I was told that the exercises aren't making your lungs bigger, you're getting used to having your lungs stay expanded for longer. The most important thing was the extra breath you take after you feel like your lungs are completely full. Everyone coughs when you take in that extra bit of air after breathing in deeply, in the beginning. There's plastic ball valve things you can buy to observe your breathing but I never personally saw it as useful. A relative was given something similar after a heart attack in order to monitor lung strength during recovery. It's also pretty common to recommend some type of cyclic breathing when handling anxiety. It helps control and lower the physical symptoms of anxiety like rapid heart rate. Looking up box/cyclic breathing guides for athletes or music students might help, if you are looking for more structure guides. The cyclic breathing in this study is not the same as circular breathing.
- lwerdna 4y ago
  > The most interesting result from this study was the change in the spread for HRV. Did your HRV increase, indicating better health? How are you measuring it? > I was able to break an 8 minute 2k row when I did it with cyclic breathing. Can you explain more? Search results for "cyclic breathing" return many varied results. Are you performing it while during the row, or in preparation for it? I can get 2k meters under 8 minutes, but I'm gasping at the end.
simonebrunozzi 4y ago
So physiological sighing seems to be more effective than other things at improving mood and arousal. How would one learn how to do it properly? I don't think a random Youtube video has enough credibility.
- calebio 4y ago
  A lot of breath work is very specific to the individual. Guides, how-tos, videos can often make people more anxious because their body is behaving slightly differently than their "source". Surprisingly, you don't need to learn it as much as you just need to do it and think about how your body feels as you do it. When you exhale, just exhale like you were just relieved of something horrible... or like you're saying "whewwwwwwwwww" as in "whewww, that's a relief". Don't worry about how many seconds it was, don't really count unless you like to, just breath and feel the feelings. When you do that a few times, especially after a slow inhale... it starts to feel really good, really natural, and in a weird way when you think it's going to work and think it's going to feel good, it actually ends up feeling good and relieving stress.
- barrenko 4y ago
  This whole thread has a lot of info in it, but the main point is this - we suck at breathing, don't breathe properly and are remarkably easily knocked out the "calm awareness" mode. It's sometimes best to work at this other way around, like with anger management, e.g. don't try to improve your breathing, but try to be more concious of when your breathing and mental state go to sh*.
wayeq 4y ago
The cyclic breathing required by swimming has a large overlap with the breathing techniques described in this study, and I suspect it has a lot to do with how much of a mental health improvement it is for me. Coupled with the full body muscle engagement and cardiovascular training that comes along with it, it seems like the perfect exercise for those that have access to a pool.
- bsmitty5000 4y ago
  I just started swimming with a local Masters group a few months ago and can definitely notice a difference in my mood if I miss a couple practices. I thought it was just my imagination but didn’t even think about the breath aspect of it.
acituan 4y ago
This is an extremely weak study that basically launders Huberman's "mini interventionism" and abuses west coast's fascination with what is mostly "breath-themed magic". The idea of hyperregulation of breath is a cousin of hyperregulation of dietary intake, which is a western "top-down"ism, latter of which induced more disordered eating than it achieved/preserved health. Regarding the criticisms of this study; Firstly, the small sample size is based on volunteers, so folks already believed there was going to be a payoff from something that is 75% breathwork. Secondly, there is no "sham intervention" class to counter the placebo effects from this. Thirdly, their mindfulness instruction is atypical; it should have been passive focus on breath rather than a visual/somatic cue on the forehead to be comperable with breath work vs breath focus. Finally, their exclusion criteria makes it too restricted; > For health and safety reasons, we excluded those with self-reported moderate to severe psychiatric or medical conditions that could be exacerbated by study participation, such as heart disease, glaucoma, history of seizures, pregnancy, psychosis, suicidality, bipolar disorder, or substance use disorders. I find it annoying that the list is not exhaustive but we could reasonably assume they also had to exclude moderate and above depression and anxiety disorders, not to mention panic disorder[1]. Anxious folks are particularly sensitive to breathwork, and even 10% of their "healthy" population reported anxiety as a result of these practices (highest ingroup rate is 17%, in the favorite "sighing" group) Besides the anxiety inducing vs reducing effect of all breathwork had more variance than the mindfulness intervention, which puts into question whether the cost/benefit of the intervention (not to mention it's wide scale applicability) is sufficient. What Huberman is popular for is known as a "nutrientism" of sorts; as in assemble vitamins a, b, c..., this and that macronutrient plus this and that micronutrient and you will have a full nutritional profile. Not saying he is all bs at all, e.g his circadian light stuff is solid, but more often than not after the 50th episode these turn into bite sized oversold interventions mostly as an illusion of "doing something good for me so that I don't have to do anything else". As a final note, mindfulness meditation traditionally has never been an emotion regulation tool, it is an education tool as a part of wisdom traditions, none of which had "good affect in one month" as the primary metric of their success. [1] The panic disorder population is even more interesting. 50% of the panic disordered people do not suffer from hyperventilatory or otherwise respiratory phenomena. Not only that, the hyperventilators are suffering from hypocapnia, as in a drop in CO2 and not O2, which is completely opposite to Huberman's "dumping CO2 and therefore relaxing" magic/logic.
swayvil 4y ago
Take a few deep breaths and you'll feel calmer and sharper. I heard that somewhere before.
FireBy2024 4y ago
Just noticed that Dr Andrew Huberman is one of the authors of this report.
unity1001 4y ago
I tried this humming thing some people are recommending, and I think it actually works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH40wdhzUuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH40wdhzUuM Its based on solid research - test groups that hum in the specific frequency were found to have increased their nitric oxide production a dozen or more times. Whereas control groups and groups that did the meditation in another frequency either did not produce any different amount or comparably low amounts.
- canadiantim 4y ago
  Do you have any sources on that research? Sounds very interesting
  - unity1001 4y ago
    The youtube video has links to various ones in the description. But you have to follow the posts to get to the actual research. Here are some: https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200202-138BC https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200202-138... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2362.2007.01845.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2362.... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343237144_Role_of_Nitric_Oxide_in_the_Paranasal_Sinuses_-_Demystifying_the_Aerocrine_Organ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343237144_Role_of_N... https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200202-138BC https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200202-138... ... When you try doing it, you start noticing a strong smell that smells like early spring or the smell certain air purifiers make. This smell lasts as long as you keep humming.
photochemsyn 4y ago
The article briefly mentions "diaphragmatic breathing" without going into it, but it's one of the best ways to do breathing exercises in a slow, controlled and relaxing manner while sitting upright at a desk. It's also a part of the training for vocalists, and that a good source on how-to guides, e.g. https://www.singwise.com/articles/correct-breathing-and-support-for-singing https://www.singwise.com/articles/correct-breathing-and-supp... > "It is also important to note that, in voice pedagogy, 'breathing from the diaphragm' and 'breathing from the belly' are not viewed as being synonymous. The breath support technique that is widely referred to as 'diaphragmatic breathing', (when correctly executed), should not be confused with 'belly breathing'. Unlike 'belly breathing', 'breathing from the diaphragm' involves no pushing or forceful expulsion of air, and is the natural, correct, safe, gentle, internationally accepted method of supporting the singing tone. In diaphragmatic breathing, the tone rides on a minimal and steady stream of air, which brings stability and consistency to the tone."
dr_kiszonka 4y ago
Fun study, but is mindfulness really relevant to their endpoints of interest, e.g., anxiety? Sure, mindfulness may help with anxiety in the long term, but during the first 30 days? Anecdotally, some folks I know felt overwhelming anxiety during their first few sessions.
ericwang1997 4y ago
[dead]
hbarka 4y ago
Andrew Huberman mentions a similar method where controlled short bursts of cyclic breathing can effect (verb effect, not grammatical error for affect) dopamine release. https://youtu.be/vA50EK70whE https://youtu.be/vA50EK70whE
graderjs 4y ago
It’s good to see this ‘validated’, but anyone who has actually tried these types of practices knows how effective they can be, there’s absolutely no doubt about any of this stuff. And why should there be? the Indians figure this stuff out like 1000 years ago or more and have been writing it down and telling people about it and what? cause we’re Western science we’re just not gonna fucking believe that? It’s ridiculous. Sort of like seeing a paper in physical review letters: class M stellar entity periodically illuminates US east coast from distance of one AU, and period of 24 hours. tell me something I fucking don’t know
- groby_b 4y ago
  Welcome to science, where we actually reproduce results and don't just yell "everybody knows". (Since you are fond of the Indian approach, though, may I suggest you inspect your anger?) And yes, it's fairly basic stuff - but it's also laying the foundation for ongoing studies. And it's not like it's ignoring ancient practices, they're specifically referenced. While we're on "how does this study help in any way", it's also worth calling out that it has conclusively shown that you can remotely administer intervention and monitor the physiological response. Yes, again, a small thing, but important going forward. And finally, this study was intended as an exploratory study - what can we find when we look here. And it will likely lead to a clinical trial. Yes, more reconfirmation of "what we've always known", but in a way that makes it more likely it finds entrance into the Western medicine canon. That's a huge step forward, because it'll move it from the easy dismissal of "maybe just woo" to "proven practice", and so gives a chance to reduce the number of pharmacological interventions doctors opt for.
  - graderjs 4y ago
    He didn’t get my point. Maybe he was replying to another comment and mistakenly put it down here? It’s something about something that’s too obvious. I got a science degree man, I believe in the scientific method, but the way it’s applied sometimes: too stupid. The scientific institution is so fucking flawed. The scientific method can’t cure humanity’s faults: reproducibility crisis, confirmation bias, wrong incentives in publishing, produce papers that mostly seek to advance careers rather than advance human knowledge. You can’t handle that? That’s on you. I just think you should realize when a paper is published about something that’s too fucking obvious. You don’t need science to validate that meditation and pranayama and breath work exercises work. Another way you could say it is it’s patronizing colonial validation of “savages superstitions.” You don’t need unnecessary validation, and to the extent you endorse that you undermine the pre-existing legitimacy: suggesting that without science’s spurious stamp of approval these things don’t pass muster. Which is totally toxic bs. Also, the thing is if science is not gonna make itself capable of exploring the more subtle energies, if it’s going to actively penalize explorations of that nature, then certainly science should not be all that we rely upon. We shouldn’t penalize people who are not coming from the scientific tradition. We should trust her own experience. Our own instincts and intuition. We should listen to our hearts, and we should listen to these Indians telling us about this stuff that works for thousands of years and we should listen to ourselves because we know it works. If you don’t think you can know something until some scientist in a journal tells you it’s true even if it’s based on your own experience, I got no words for you man. You’re lost and science isn’t gonna help you get found. Fix your head first. You can’t do science coming from the wrong place for it. And that’s the fucking point. Also (Since you are fond of the Indian approach, though, may I suggest you inspect your anger?) Please don’t try to involve me in your personal delusions about me. Why do I need to inspect anything? I’m fine with however I feel about this. If you got a problem with how I feel, or with how you need to pretend I feel that’s your problem, nothing to do with me. Right? Maybe you should inspect your pomposity? Don’t tell me how I feel. Anger? I don’t have anger about this. You misunderstand. Don’t project your misunderstanding on to me OK bud? Thank you. Have a good one!
sitkack 4y ago
If this topic is interesting, Andrew Huberman (paper coauthor) has a YT channel https://www.youtube.com/@hubermanlab https://www.youtube.com/@hubermanlab
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
I remember in my youth, in the 80s, there was a very popular fad called Autogenic training. Looks similar.
throw1234651234 4y ago
Boringgggg, as usual. Read "Altered Traits" - two western scientists trying to pump up meditation self-report that they can't find any tangible benefits and resort to BP control meditation because they can't even reduce their BP, let alone anything else. "Anxiety and mood" are pretty subjective. Just sitting there drops pulse too.
lightedman 4y ago
Second bullet point states: "Breathwork improves mood and physiological arousal more than mindfulness meditation" Headline states that it reduces physiological arousal.
- Sakos 4y ago
  From the results > Both mindfulness meditation and breathwork groups showed significant reductions in state anxiety and negative affect and increases in positive affect. > Breathwork produces a significantly greater reduction in respiratory rate compared with mindfulness meditation
thorvaldsson 4y ago
The swimming pools in my area of the world all have a 'cold tub' with water ranging in temperature from 6-10°C. On average I visit the pools roughly 2-3x per week and always spend around ~12 minutes (in 4 minute chunks) in the 'cold tub' doing controlled breathing. That, and plunging and holding my face in the cold water to try to trigger the mammalian diving response, has really had a positive effect on me (ofcourse only n=1). Think I'll add 5 minutes of these breathing practices to my routine as well.
- abyssin 4y ago
  Could you expand on the mammalian response, what exactly triggers it, and its benefits?
  - thorvaldsson 4y ago
    As it was explained to me (and from reading I have done), the mammalian diving response (which all mammals have but to varying degrees) works to preserve oxygen and energy expenditure when underwater. For seals and other water dwelling mammals this is a controlled sophisticated mechanism that is deliberately used when underwater. In humans it is a survival mechanism, triggered when the trigeminal nerve on our face gets submerged in water. And the colder it is the stronger the response seems to be. Submerging one self in cold water up to your head seems to affect many parts of the human body, and in my case I am not sure which part it is that I am feeling the effects of. But it leaves me feeling more alert, awake and with less mindfog after doing an extended cold water dip (going to the pool without one in comparison leaves me sluggish). Wikipedia has a good section on the response: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_reflex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_reflex
    - renox 4y ago
      I don't know if this related to this effect or not but I've noticed that it's much much easier holding your breath for a longer period of time when you're in a swimming pool than outside.
rcarmo 4y ago
"Cyclic sighing is most effective at improving mood and reducing respiratory rate." I do sigh a lot in meetings, and am (perhaps mistakenly) believed to be very patient with people... Oh well.
groffee 4y ago
[flagged]
- nradov 4y ago
  What sort of psychic abilities?
  - viscanti 4y ago
    I've heard it can enable you to offend large swaths of the population using only words.
    - breckenedge 4y ago
      Clairannoyance?
      - klyrs 4y ago
        I'm so mad that I didn't see that coming
        yazaddaruvala 4y ago
        You really need to be practicing more of these breathing techniques :)
- dumbaccount123 4y ago
  >psychic abilities
  - viscanti 4y ago
    With the correct ancient breathing techniques, one can see the downvotes coming before they even post.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  Apparently among the other things it develops are a contempt for most of humanity?
mistrial9 4y ago
people interested in 'breathing' things.. let's recall a few basics.. Many humans are in different stages of life (age), of training (basic fitness), of capacity (the body you are in), and alertness (are you paying attention to things that matter?). Breathing is a minute-to-minute vital life function. You can hurt yourself, perhaps seriously, with breathing changes. But wait -- holding your breathe is harmless and this is stupid that you warn me about it, one person wrote after a similar comment like this here on YNews. really? I don't know you but I guarantee you are not six years old right now. Hold the breathe like a babe in arms, gently, with complete awareness... You tri-athletes, you too.. yes, I agree this is annoying to see Western Medicine "discover" this .. but please work with experienced people, not alone, not with a video or PDF from somewhere.. to health!
- nradov 4y ago
  Are there any documented case studies of people seriously hurting themselves with breathing changes?
  - thoughtstheseus 4y ago
    Yes. You can black out. For certain practices it is not uncommon. Please take care when practicing breathing exercises.
    - kadoban 4y ago
      Is there any danger beyond falling? Is sitting/lying down enough?
    - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
      Okay? What’s the risk? Falling over and hitting your head?
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      > You can black out. For certain practices it is not uncommon. Which practices?
curiousDog 4y ago
Not to digress but substack bas gotten quite annoying on mobile. Have to scroll through so much irrelevant BS to just get to the article, what the hell.
- gavanwilhite 4y ago
  I think this was done by the author to create engagement with their blog. I'm not sure if there is a against this, but it feels kinda against the spirit of posting a title like this when it seems like the goal of the linked page is 20% to communicate the topic of the headline and 80% to drive you to other topics they have been posting about.
- randorand0 4y ago
  it's a business, they're trying to make money first, everything else (including the actual articles) come second
  - czardoz 4y ago
    I'm always surprised when patterns like this actually work. But they do!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- articlemode 4y ago
  Try article mode extention
ergonaught 4y ago
I've taught most of my clients breathing exercises for the past 5-6 years. It's unnecessary to take it to the level of a formal pranayama practice to make fairly significant differences in physiological state, from which most everything else derives. The "coherent breathing" work that popped up sometime in the last ~15 years is pretty interesting, too.
- herodoturtle 4y ago
  Would you share some of your breathing lessons here? I only ask because there are several other commenters on here offering breathing tips, and you sound like an expert on this.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ergonaught 4y ago
    Ehhh. a) "Box Breathing", as mentioned in the article. Inhale, hold, exhale, hold. Same rate for each step. Ex: in for 4, hold for 4, out for 4, hold for 4. Repeat as long as you like. Very calming and "centering" (in the sense of moving you toward "neutral" physiologically). More effective if you can breathe through nose and use diaphragm/belly breathing, but that's optional. b) "Coherent Breathing". Inhale, exhale, at the same rate. Ex: a good rate is 5 seconds in, 5 seconds out. Also calming/centering, with an observed positive effect on heart rate variability. This is box breathing without the holds, so experiment to see which is preferable. Again, using the diaphragm is optional. c) "Gratitude Breathing", for lack of a better phrase. Inhale (explicitly diaphragm/belly breathing this time); think of something you're grateful for (thankful, happy, something positive); exhale slowly. The exhale should be twice as slow as the inhale. Ex: so inhale for a count of 4, think a happy thought, exhale for a count of 8. Repeat at least ten times (to overwhelm whatever was in working memory before you began), more if you like. This will calm, relax, and trigger a positive emotional/psychological state. d) "Relax and pass out breathing". As c) without the "positive thought". So a deep inhale, then a twice slower exhale. This is more purely relaxing than the others, can lead to sleep eventually. This does not have the double inhale a la the "cyclic sighing" mentioned in the article. e) "Panic and freak out breathing": short, rapid inhale and exhale, using the upper chest rather than diaphragm. Why do this? Anyway. It's been bizarre to me how many people cannot easily breathe using their diaphragms, whereas I have to consciously force myself to do otherwise. Anyway. There is all sorts of research on these, some good and most junk, but the main takeaway is that for some reason humans have the ability to consciously control our breathing, and the way we breathe has direct impact on our resulting physiological state. There are endless varieties of "breathwork" (Wim Hoff's stuff, actual Tummo breathing, 3721 variations of pranayama) because humans like to complicate things, but these cover the bases for routine self-care.
boxcarr 4y ago
From the blog post: > Interestingly, those who felt the greatest boost in mood also experienced the biggest drop in heart rate variability. A drop in HRV isn't generally good. So I check the paper, and found this: > No significant changes were found in heart rate variability or resting heart rate over the course of the study in either of the groups (Figures 4C and 4D) There was a reduction respiratory rate for those an increase in daily positive affect. Bottom line, unclear if this particular study points to a positive health outcome other than feeling happier.
- curiouska 4y ago
  From the paper: Interestingly, change in respiratory rate was negatively correlated with change in daily positive affect (Figure S5; r = - 0.24, p < 0.05), suggesting that participants who showed the highest reduction in respiratory rate also showed the highest daily increase in positive affect over the course of the study (Figure S5).
- curiouska 4y ago
  But as you said, the main finding reported was an increase positive affect.
kerpotgh 4y ago
I’d like to point out that even though the Wim Hoff technique is based on pranayama, he recommends something pranayama actively asks you not to do. Exhale completely and then hold it for as long as you can.
hestefisk 4y ago
I use the box breathing technique for relaxation and de-stress. 4 seconds breathe in, 4 seconds hold, 4 seconds breathe out, 4 seconds hold. Then repeat. It’s great for calming the fight or flight response in me.
dragonsh 4y ago
1 point by dragonsh 3 minutes ago | root | parent | next | edit | delete [–] I follow these simple rules for breathing 1. Breathe to stomach not chest. 2. Breathe by nose (unless swimming or underwater). 3. Inhalation time and exhalation time should be equal and gap between inhalation and exhalation should be sum of it. If it takes x seconds to inhale exhalation should begin after 2x seconds and should finish in x seconds Retention (2x) = inhalation time (x) + exhalation time (x). All the pranayam and yogic techniques try to make it natural to have this pattern and symmetry in our breathing process.
- deleted 4y ago
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- nprateem 4y ago
  No they don't
moomoo11 4y ago
I have a bad habit of holding my breath for a long time. I don't do it on purpose, sometimes when I'm super focused I just notice I haven't taken a breathe in a while. Its kind of alarming tbh when it happens, not sure if maybe this will help.
- nradov 4y ago
  Why is that a bad habit? What are the negative consequences?
  - moomoo11 4y ago
    Coz I’m out of breath
smohare 4y ago
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robofanatic 4y ago
When you say OM (Aum) out loud properly you do controlled breathing. Here is the way I was taught. 1. relax. 2. deep inhale. 3. pause (1 count) 4. say 'O' (2 or 3 counts, you can stretch it further if you can). Here you are basically exhaling through mouth. 5. slowly transition from 'O' to 'M'. for a brief period in the transition try to say 'O' nasally. might need a bit of practice but basically you are slowly transitioning from exhaling via mouth to exhaling via nose. 6. as you completely switch to 'M' your mouth is shut and you are totally exhaling via nose. Stretch 'M' as long as you can. 7. repeat this cycle. Once you find the rhythm its quite mentally relaxing.
- ramshanker 4y ago
  Mine lessons in primary school was a bit of variation. 3 Steps, to be repeated thrice in the order written. 1. Stretch O and keep M short. 2. Keep O and M equal length. 3. Keep O short and stretch M.
knaik94 4y ago
I found that doing breathing exercises in isolation were very boring and I couldn't get myself to care. But using structured breathing while exercising made it way more enjoyable. Having physical cues for the different steps helped make it more of a measurable skill where I notice improvements over time. Musicians and athletes practice structured breathing as a way of building cardio and increasing lung capacity. Your lungs don't change, you just learn to control airflow better. The way "ancient traditions" are frequently framed makes me avoid and treat them like pseudoscience. Framing it from the persepctive of an athlete helped me evaluate it more seriously. Mindful meditation is beneficial but completely indepedent from breathing exercises and you don't need the former to get benefits from the latter. I am not arguing the value or validity of "ancient techniques", I am sharing my initial bias when I was first introduced to pranayama, and how it's taught as if it exists in isolation. This post doesn't mention sports or singing/musicians once. There's many techniques but box breathing where you take extra air in after you feel like your lungs are full, and a longer period exhaling than inhaling, is the primary technique I was taught for marching band/trombone. The "cyclic sighing" described in the paper, but with a longer inhale and exhale. We did, at ~80 bpm, 4 counts for inhale, 4 counts of holding, and 8 counts of exhale, with whatever extra "sip" of air we could manage to inhale during the hold. If you're not used to breathing exercises, doing 4+4+8 a few times can leave you light headed. It's normal to cough from the extra sip of air.
bamboozled 4y ago
Sometimes I hit my rowing machine really hard to try beat a previous record, so hard that I really feel like I've "cooked myself", I feel like I need to breathe to the point where I have to remove my ear buds to get more air or else it kind of feels like I could suffocate :) It's a brutal machine. I'm now fitter and rarely get that "gassed" even when I push myself. It's such hard work that I decided to stop drinking for a year to make it more tolerable to exercise with the rowing machine. One of my friends tried to beat my time on the rower and was so sore for 3 nights, he had nightmares about the rower ha. Anyway, it obviously made me question should I be doing more for my body, including breathing exercises, but what this kind of thing also makes me really think about is how stupid air pollution is. What it would feel like not to have access to fresh clean air and how bad it would be to be suffocating. What a privilege it is to be able to breathe and it makes me feel like I want to go plant trees. Has anyone else had similar thoughts during exercise / breathe training? If anything I think it's good to become aware of the breathe and air for this reason alone, it would make the world a better place.

314 points by madpen 4y ago

The how-to is buried pretty deep for those like me who are unfamiliar with cyclic sighing (aka psychological sighing or double inhale) > Participants were informed they should sit down in a chair or, if they prefer, to lie down, and to set a timer for 5 min. Then they were told to inhale slowly, and that once their lungs were expanded, to inhale again once more to maximally fill their lungs -- even if the second inhale was shorter in duration and smaller in volume than the first, and then to slowly and fully exhale all their breath. They were told to repeat this pattern of breathing for 5 min. They were also informed that ideally, both inhales would be performed via their nose and the exhale would be performed via their mouth, but that if they preferred, they were welcome to do the breathing entirely through their nose. They were also informed that it is normal for the second inhale to be briefer than the first.

HighlandSpring 4y ago
The second sigh sounds like it may, in effect, progressively overload your lung capacity. Felt good too
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rolph 4y ago

this sounds alot like pranayama

deleted 4y ago
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reactspa 4y ago
Regarding the "cyclic sighing" technique (called "Physiological sighing" in the graphic): I have been doing it for a couple of years without knowing it was a thing. I have studied common Pranayama techniques, and I stumbled upon it via trial and error. I do it because I find it anxiety-reducing. I used to refer to it internally as "double inhale breathing". After reading the OP article, and noting that they referred to "Yogic breathing", I decided to do a little research and discovered that this technique is called "Dirga Pranayama" or "three part breathing". The authors should have mentioned it in their article.

DFHippie 4y ago

The one that works is the one that people do without special training: sighing*. There had to be some reason why people sigh. * Yes, this is an odd sort of sighing, but it isn't that different from spontaneous sighing. And people also hyperventilate on their own, but mostly preparatory to diving or holding their breath for some other reason.

klyrs 4y ago
> And people also hyperventilate on their own, but mostly preparatory to diving or holding their breath for some other reason. It's common for people to hyperventilate in the midst of a panic attack, and the common advice I've seen is to encourage a panicked person to take deep breaths. Strange to see it as a consideration for beneficial effects. As a kid I'd hyperventilate to feel dizzy because it was fun (oops was I getting high?)
kbutler 4y ago
Except sighing isn't generally a natural response to stress, but a response to boredom. So maybe it's consciously emulating a natural behavior matching a lower-stress state, to help shift to that state. From personal experience, the deep inhalation preceding a sigh (extended exhalation) is also helpful.
- nobodyandproud 4y ago
  A sigh of frustration is pretty common. Biting one’s tongue and taking a breathe.

rojobuffalo 4y ago

It's remarkable that I so often lapse in my meditation practice when it's such a short time commitment and so consistently improves my mood. I tell myself that morning yoga is enough or a walking meditation while taking the dog out is enough - I do those every day without fail. But they're not the same as seated breath work. Why do other mood improvement habits seem more approachable, like making a cup of tea or exercise or a shower, while sitting and breathing seems harder?

klyrs 4y ago
> sitting and breathing seems harder? The stillness, I think. With adhd, that's my challenge anyway. The mind does not shut off, and 5 minutes can feel like forever. Even thinking about it makes me squirm. But I took a yoga class once that did breathwork, and with guidance, I found the ability to focus my entire attention on my breath; the action and the feeling of it.
- akomtu 4y ago
  It's one of the preparation methods: if you have too many thoughts focus on your breath, if you're addicted to pleasures focus on disguisting things, and so on. What happens if you just ignore your thoughts, if you watch them like images in a boring movie? Thoughts compel you to follow them, but you dont have to.
nvader 4y ago
I've heard meditation described as "motionless ju-jitsu with yourself". In the absence of any obstacle, the only opponent is you, but by definition you are equal in strength to yourself. So meditation can devolve into a heated evenly-matched contest of wills, which is extremely draining.
- rojobuffalo 4y ago
  Oh man I love that description! It makes me think how exercise is like a contest against physical limits, which are knowable. Hard work leads to heavier lifts or longer runs. But when you kick your own ass in meditation, the limits are more ambiguous and progress isn't so linear.

JaggerFoo 4y ago

I like that they described how each method is performed. The mindful meditation method was a bit different from what I've used, but something I can adopt. So cyclic sighing can replace mindful meditation, except that it requires more use to reap the benefits. So now Cyclic Sighing, Mindful Meditation and Binaural Beats are techniques I can call upon in times of stress. Cheers

deleted 4y ago
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williamscales 4y ago

I have pretty severe anxiety at this time and these breathing practices have really helped me get out of a bad situation without medication: 1) Box breathing 2) Yoganidra (even if I’m not trying to fall asleep)

tsujamin 4y ago
+1 box breathing
- throwaway378037 4y ago
  It has helped me a lot at times too, even helping a little with long covid/post-viral symptoms, sample size of 1 but it really doesn’t hurt to try
jawon 4y ago
Yoga Nidra for sure. Except it can be really effective at putting you to sleep. I now have trouble listening to any track on this album without passing out: https://open.spotify.com/album/00Dzgh60bmNigM9fvckKa3?si=sqO2odumQVeqHZwrne0arQ https://open.spotify.com/album/00Dzgh60bmNigM9fvckKa3?si=sqO...
- wruza 4y ago
  Seems like it shares key ideas with “body scan” method combined with don’t move rule. Or maybe it’s just another name for it.

staplung 4y ago

Videos describing two out of the three breath-work techniques mentioned: 1) cyclic sighing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdhqBGqiMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdhqBGqiMc 2) box breathing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEmt1Znux58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEmt1Znux58 Couldn't find anything for hyperventilation with retention. I have no idea if they match the exact mechanics that were tested so make of it what you will.

dalys 4y ago
Cyclic hyperventilation with retention is the same as wim hof breathing https://youtu.be/tybOi4hjZFQ https://youtu.be/tybOi4hjZFQ as I understood from Andrew Huberman
- elmomle 4y ago
  I'm not a practitioner of Wim Hof's methods, but what was implemented in the paper is definitely not Wim Hof breathing. The paper describes 30x breaths with the inhale twice as long as the exhale, and a 15 second hold on the final exhale. Wim Hof's method has 30x equal-length inhales and exhales, and a one-minute hold on the final exhale [0]. Aside from there being a substantial difference between equal length inhales and exhales and an inhale that's twice as long as the exhale, the big idea behind Wim Hof's method is that that minute-long hold is very difficult, and trying to do it supposedly builds a certain kind of mental (really, holistic) discipline that a 15 second hold simply would not. 15 seconds is not hard unless you're pretty out of shape. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    The one minute hold is something that you continue to extend. It’s not one minute forever. Source: read Wim Hof book and am a practitioner
  - Sammi 4y ago
    The Wim Hof method is weirdly effective. I've never been able to hold my breath for over a minute even though I've tried. But on my second attempt at the Wim Hof method I did 2 minutes and then shortly after 4 minutes... It felt way shorter... I think the hyperventilation put me into a dissociative state.

Gatsky 4y ago

Mindfulness in this study: > Participants were informed they should sit down in a chair or, if they preferred, to lie down, and then to set a timer for 5 min. Then they were told to close their eyes and to start breathing while focusing their mental attention on their forehead region between their two eyes. They were told that if their focus drifted from that location to re-recenter their attention by focusing back first on their breath and then on the forehead region between their eyes. They were told that as thoughts arise, to recognize that as normal, refocus their attention back to their forehead region and to continue the practice until time has elapsed. Is this a legit expression of mindfulness meditation? It lacks any sort of breath modification.

adamtemple 4y ago
Most mindfulness paradigms teach you to notice the breath and not modify it. This excerpt is the basics of mindfulness.
- Gatsky 4y ago
  And for only 5 minutes?
mehphp 4y ago
Mindfulness meditation just requires you to keep bringing your attention back to _something_. The breath is just a very convenient option.

martingoodson 4y ago

This isn't a particularly high quality study. Eg no Statistical power sample size calculation done beforehand.

guybedo 4y ago

there are many interesting breathing techniques, interestingly it usually provides benefits similar to a meditation practice. I added this one to my routines: https://routineshub.com/public/items/760bb353-35cc-483c-adce-ed6370edfa65/cyclic-sighing https://routineshub.com/public/items/760bb353-35cc-483c-adce... I also regularly practice Andrew Weil's 478 breathing https://routineshub.com/public/items/fb2c75bd-4d6d-424e-925a-d09aef429a7d/478-breathing https://routineshub.com/public/items/fb2c75bd-4d6d-424e-925a...

knaik94 4y ago

I enjoy and use this breathing technique but I haven't ever practiced or cared about mindful meditation. In my experience doing breathing exercises while doing something physical helps me way more than doing it while sitting. The most interesting result from this study was the change in the spread for HRV. I personally found that having physical markers for when to breathe in and out made it a lot easier to understand and practice. Tying yoga poses to the amount of time I hold air made is easier to track my improvements too. I imagine swimming similarly allows a more structured way to practice cyclic breathing. I was able to break an 8 minute 2k row when I did it with cyclic breathing. Nothing has improved my cardio as much as erg + controlled breathing, I use pretty short intervals. Another place cyclic breathing was crucial was when I did marching band. I played trombone so it was mandatory that I have athletic lung capacity. I was told that the exercises aren't making your lungs bigger, you're getting used to having your lungs stay expanded for longer. The most important thing was the extra breath you take after you feel like your lungs are completely full. Everyone coughs when you take in that extra bit of air after breathing in deeply, in the beginning. There's plastic ball valve things you can buy to observe your breathing but I never personally saw it as useful. A relative was given something similar after a heart attack in order to monitor lung strength during recovery. It's also pretty common to recommend some type of cyclic breathing when handling anxiety. It helps control and lower the physical symptoms of anxiety like rapid heart rate. Looking up box/cyclic breathing guides for athletes or music students might help, if you are looking for more structure guides. The cyclic breathing in this study is not the same as circular breathing.

lwerdna 4y ago
> The most interesting result from this study was the change in the spread for HRV. Did your HRV increase, indicating better health? How are you measuring it? > I was able to break an 8 minute 2k row when I did it with cyclic breathing. Can you explain more? Search results for "cyclic breathing" return many varied results. Are you performing it while during the row, or in preparation for it? I can get 2k meters under 8 minutes, but I'm gasping at the end.

simonebrunozzi 4y ago

So physiological sighing seems to be more effective than other things at improving mood and arousal. How would one learn how to do it properly? I don't think a random Youtube video has enough credibility.

calebio 4y ago
A lot of breath work is very specific to the individual. Guides, how-tos, videos can often make people more anxious because their body is behaving slightly differently than their "source". Surprisingly, you don't need to learn it as much as you just need to do it and think about how your body feels as you do it. When you exhale, just exhale like you were just relieved of something horrible... or like you're saying "whewwwwwwwwww" as in "whewww, that's a relief". Don't worry about how many seconds it was, don't really count unless you like to, just breath and feel the feelings. When you do that a few times, especially after a slow inhale... it starts to feel really good, really natural, and in a weird way when you think it's going to work and think it's going to feel good, it actually ends up feeling good and relieving stress.
barrenko 4y ago
This whole thread has a lot of info in it, but the main point is this - we suck at breathing, don't breathe properly and are remarkably easily knocked out the "calm awareness" mode. It's sometimes best to work at this other way around, like with anger management, e.g. don't try to improve your breathing, but try to be more concious of when your breathing and mental state go to sh*.

wayeq 4y ago

The cyclic breathing required by swimming has a large overlap with the breathing techniques described in this study, and I suspect it has a lot to do with how much of a mental health improvement it is for me. Coupled with the full body muscle engagement and cardiovascular training that comes along with it, it seems like the perfect exercise for those that have access to a pool.

bsmitty5000 4y ago
I just started swimming with a local Masters group a few months ago and can definitely notice a difference in my mood if I miss a couple practices. I thought it was just my imagination but didn’t even think about the breath aspect of it.

acituan 4y ago

This is an extremely weak study that basically launders Huberman's "mini interventionism" and abuses west coast's fascination with what is mostly "breath-themed magic". The idea of hyperregulation of breath is a cousin of hyperregulation of dietary intake, which is a western "top-down"ism, latter of which induced more disordered eating than it achieved/preserved health. Regarding the criticisms of this study; Firstly, the small sample size is based on volunteers, so folks already believed there was going to be a payoff from something that is 75% breathwork. Secondly, there is no "sham intervention" class to counter the placebo effects from this. Thirdly, their mindfulness instruction is atypical; it should have been passive focus on breath rather than a visual/somatic cue on the forehead to be comperable with breath work vs breath focus. Finally, their exclusion criteria makes it too restricted; > For health and safety reasons, we excluded those with self-reported moderate to severe psychiatric or medical conditions that could be exacerbated by study participation, such as heart disease, glaucoma, history of seizures, pregnancy, psychosis, suicidality, bipolar disorder, or substance use disorders. I find it annoying that the list is not exhaustive but we could reasonably assume they also had to exclude moderate and above depression and anxiety disorders, not to mention panic disorder[1]. Anxious folks are particularly sensitive to breathwork, and even 10% of their "healthy" population reported anxiety as a result of these practices (highest ingroup rate is 17%, in the favorite "sighing" group) Besides the anxiety inducing vs reducing effect of all breathwork had more variance than the mindfulness intervention, which puts into question whether the cost/benefit of the intervention (not to mention it's wide scale applicability) is sufficient. What Huberman is popular for is known as a "nutrientism" of sorts; as in assemble vitamins a, b, c..., this and that macronutrient plus this and that micronutrient and you will have a full nutritional profile. Not saying he is all bs at all, e.g his circadian light stuff is solid, but more often than not after the 50th episode these turn into bite sized oversold interventions mostly as an illusion of "doing something good for me so that I don't have to do anything else". As a final note, mindfulness meditation traditionally has never been an emotion regulation tool, it is an education tool as a part of wisdom traditions, none of which had "good affect in one month" as the primary metric of their success. [1] The panic disorder population is even more interesting. 50% of the panic disordered people do not suffer from hyperventilatory or otherwise respiratory phenomena. Not only that, the hyperventilators are suffering from hypocapnia, as in a drop in CO2 and not O2, which is completely opposite to Huberman's "dumping CO2 and therefore relaxing" magic/logic.

swayvil 4y ago

Take a few deep breaths and you'll feel calmer and sharper. I heard that somewhere before.

FireBy2024 4y ago

Just noticed that Dr Andrew Huberman is one of the authors of this report.

unity1001 4y ago

I tried this humming thing some people are recommending, and I think it actually works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH40wdhzUuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH40wdhzUuM Its based on solid research - test groups that hum in the specific frequency were found to have increased their nitric oxide production a dozen or more times. Whereas control groups and groups that did the meditation in another frequency either did not produce any different amount or comparably low amounts.

canadiantim 4y ago
Do you have any sources on that research? Sounds very interesting
- unity1001 4y ago
  The youtube video has links to various ones in the description. But you have to follow the posts to get to the actual research. Here are some: https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200202-138BC https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200202-138... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2362.2007.01845.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2362.... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343237144_Role_of_Nitric_Oxide_in_the_Paranasal_Sinuses_-_Demystifying_the_Aerocrine_Organ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343237144_Role_of_N... https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200202-138BC https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200202-138... ... When you try doing it, you start noticing a strong smell that smells like early spring or the smell certain air purifiers make. This smell lasts as long as you keep humming.

photochemsyn 4y ago

The article briefly mentions "diaphragmatic breathing" without going into it, but it's one of the best ways to do breathing exercises in a slow, controlled and relaxing manner while sitting upright at a desk. It's also a part of the training for vocalists, and that a good source on how-to guides, e.g. https://www.singwise.com/articles/correct-breathing-and-support-for-singing https://www.singwise.com/articles/correct-breathing-and-supp... > "It is also important to note that, in voice pedagogy, 'breathing from the diaphragm' and 'breathing from the belly' are not viewed as being synonymous. The breath support technique that is widely referred to as 'diaphragmatic breathing', (when correctly executed), should not be confused with 'belly breathing'. Unlike 'belly breathing', 'breathing from the diaphragm' involves no pushing or forceful expulsion of air, and is the natural, correct, safe, gentle, internationally accepted method of supporting the singing tone. In diaphragmatic breathing, the tone rides on a minimal and steady stream of air, which brings stability and consistency to the tone."

dr_kiszonka 4y ago

Fun study, but is mindfulness really relevant to their endpoints of interest, e.g., anxiety? Sure, mindfulness may help with anxiety in the long term, but during the first 30 days? Anecdotally, some folks I know felt overwhelming anxiety during their first few sessions.

ericwang1997 4y ago

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hbarka 4y ago

Andrew Huberman mentions a similar method where controlled short bursts of cyclic breathing can effect (verb effect, not grammatical error for affect) dopamine release. https://youtu.be/vA50EK70whE https://youtu.be/vA50EK70whE

graderjs 4y ago

It’s good to see this ‘validated’, but anyone who has actually tried these types of practices knows how effective they can be, there’s absolutely no doubt about any of this stuff. And why should there be? the Indians figure this stuff out like 1000 years ago or more and have been writing it down and telling people about it and what? cause we’re Western science we’re just not gonna fucking believe that? It’s ridiculous. Sort of like seeing a paper in physical review letters: class M stellar entity periodically illuminates US east coast from distance of one AU, and period of 24 hours. tell me something I fucking don’t know

groby_b 4y ago
Welcome to science, where we actually reproduce results and don't just yell "everybody knows". (Since you are fond of the Indian approach, though, may I suggest you inspect your anger?) And yes, it's fairly basic stuff - but it's also laying the foundation for ongoing studies. And it's not like it's ignoring ancient practices, they're specifically referenced. While we're on "how does this study help in any way", it's also worth calling out that it has conclusively shown that you can remotely administer intervention and monitor the physiological response. Yes, again, a small thing, but important going forward. And finally, this study was intended as an exploratory study - what can we find when we look here. And it will likely lead to a clinical trial. Yes, more reconfirmation of "what we've always known", but in a way that makes it more likely it finds entrance into the Western medicine canon. That's a huge step forward, because it'll move it from the easy dismissal of "maybe just woo" to "proven practice", and so gives a chance to reduce the number of pharmacological interventions doctors opt for.
- graderjs 4y ago
  He didn’t get my point. Maybe he was replying to another comment and mistakenly put it down here? It’s something about something that’s too obvious. I got a science degree man, I believe in the scientific method, but the way it’s applied sometimes: too stupid. The scientific institution is so fucking flawed. The scientific method can’t cure humanity’s faults: reproducibility crisis, confirmation bias, wrong incentives in publishing, produce papers that mostly seek to advance careers rather than advance human knowledge. You can’t handle that? That’s on you. I just think you should realize when a paper is published about something that’s too fucking obvious. You don’t need science to validate that meditation and pranayama and breath work exercises work. Another way you could say it is it’s patronizing colonial validation of “savages superstitions.” You don’t need unnecessary validation, and to the extent you endorse that you undermine the pre-existing legitimacy: suggesting that without science’s spurious stamp of approval these things don’t pass muster. Which is totally toxic bs. Also, the thing is if science is not gonna make itself capable of exploring the more subtle energies, if it’s going to actively penalize explorations of that nature, then certainly science should not be all that we rely upon. We shouldn’t penalize people who are not coming from the scientific tradition. We should trust her own experience. Our own instincts and intuition. We should listen to our hearts, and we should listen to these Indians telling us about this stuff that works for thousands of years and we should listen to ourselves because we know it works. If you don’t think you can know something until some scientist in a journal tells you it’s true even if it’s based on your own experience, I got no words for you man. You’re lost and science isn’t gonna help you get found. Fix your head first. You can’t do science coming from the wrong place for it. And that’s the fucking point. Also (Since you are fond of the Indian approach, though, may I suggest you inspect your anger?) Please don’t try to involve me in your personal delusions about me. Why do I need to inspect anything? I’m fine with however I feel about this. If you got a problem with how I feel, or with how you need to pretend I feel that’s your problem, nothing to do with me. Right? Maybe you should inspect your pomposity? Don’t tell me how I feel. Anger? I don’t have anger about this. You misunderstand. Don’t project your misunderstanding on to me OK bud? Thank you. Have a good one!

sitkack 4y ago

If this topic is interesting, Andrew Huberman (paper coauthor) has a YT channel https://www.youtube.com/@hubermanlab https://www.youtube.com/@hubermanlab

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago

I remember in my youth, in the 80s, there was a very popular fad called Autogenic training. Looks similar.

throw1234651234 4y ago

Boringgggg, as usual. Read "Altered Traits" - two western scientists trying to pump up meditation self-report that they can't find any tangible benefits and resort to BP control meditation because they can't even reduce their BP, let alone anything else. "Anxiety and mood" are pretty subjective. Just sitting there drops pulse too.

lightedman 4y ago

Second bullet point states: "Breathwork improves mood and physiological arousal more than mindfulness meditation" Headline states that it reduces physiological arousal.

Sakos 4y ago
From the results > Both mindfulness meditation and breathwork groups showed significant reductions in state anxiety and negative affect and increases in positive affect. > Breathwork produces a significantly greater reduction in respiratory rate compared with mindfulness meditation

thorvaldsson 4y ago

The swimming pools in my area of the world all have a 'cold tub' with water ranging in temperature from 6-10°C. On average I visit the pools roughly 2-3x per week and always spend around ~12 minutes (in 4 minute chunks) in the 'cold tub' doing controlled breathing. That, and plunging and holding my face in the cold water to try to trigger the mammalian diving response, has really had a positive effect on me (ofcourse only n=1). Think I'll add 5 minutes of these breathing practices to my routine as well.

abyssin 4y ago
Could you expand on the mammalian response, what exactly triggers it, and its benefits?
- thorvaldsson 4y ago
  As it was explained to me (and from reading I have done), the mammalian diving response (which all mammals have but to varying degrees) works to preserve oxygen and energy expenditure when underwater. For seals and other water dwelling mammals this is a controlled sophisticated mechanism that is deliberately used when underwater. In humans it is a survival mechanism, triggered when the trigeminal nerve on our face gets submerged in water. And the colder it is the stronger the response seems to be. Submerging one self in cold water up to your head seems to affect many parts of the human body, and in my case I am not sure which part it is that I am feeling the effects of. But it leaves me feeling more alert, awake and with less mindfog after doing an extended cold water dip (going to the pool without one in comparison leaves me sluggish). Wikipedia has a good section on the response: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_reflex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_reflex
  - renox 4y ago
    I don't know if this related to this effect or not but I've noticed that it's much much easier holding your breath for a longer period of time when you're in a swimming pool than outside.

rcarmo 4y ago

"Cyclic sighing is most effective at improving mood and reducing respiratory rate." I do sigh a lot in meetings, and am (perhaps mistakenly) believed to be very patient with people... Oh well.

groffee 4y ago

[flagged]

nradov 4y ago
What sort of psychic abilities?
- viscanti 4y ago
  I've heard it can enable you to offend large swaths of the population using only words.
  - breckenedge 4y ago
    Clairannoyance?
    - klyrs 4y ago
      I'm so mad that I didn't see that coming
      - yazaddaruvala 4y ago
        You really need to be practicing more of these breathing techniques :)
dumbaccount123 4y ago
>psychic abilities
- viscanti 4y ago
  With the correct ancient breathing techniques, one can see the downvotes coming before they even post.
jrochkind1 4y ago
Apparently among the other things it develops are a contempt for most of humanity?

mistrial9 4y ago

people interested in 'breathing' things.. let's recall a few basics.. Many humans are in different stages of life (age), of training (basic fitness), of capacity (the body you are in), and alertness (are you paying attention to things that matter?). Breathing is a minute-to-minute vital life function. You can hurt yourself, perhaps seriously, with breathing changes. But wait -- holding your breathe is harmless and this is stupid that you warn me about it, one person wrote after a similar comment like this here on YNews. really? I don't know you but I guarantee you are not six years old right now. Hold the breathe like a babe in arms, gently, with complete awareness... You tri-athletes, you too.. yes, I agree this is annoying to see Western Medicine "discover" this .. but please work with experienced people, not alone, not with a video or PDF from somewhere.. to health!

nradov 4y ago
Are there any documented case studies of people seriously hurting themselves with breathing changes?
- thoughtstheseus 4y ago
  Yes. You can black out. For certain practices it is not uncommon. Please take care when practicing breathing exercises.
  - kadoban 4y ago
    Is there any danger beyond falling? Is sitting/lying down enough?
  - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
    Okay? What’s the risk? Falling over and hitting your head?
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    > You can black out. For certain practices it is not uncommon. Which practices?

curiousDog 4y ago

Not to digress but substack bas gotten quite annoying on mobile. Have to scroll through so much irrelevant BS to just get to the article, what the hell.

gavanwilhite 4y ago
I think this was done by the author to create engagement with their blog. I'm not sure if there is a against this, but it feels kinda against the spirit of posting a title like this when it seems like the goal of the linked page is 20% to communicate the topic of the headline and 80% to drive you to other topics they have been posting about.
randorand0 4y ago
it's a business, they're trying to make money first, everything else (including the actual articles) come second
- czardoz 4y ago
  I'm always surprised when patterns like this actually work. But they do!
deleted 4y ago
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articlemode 4y ago
Try article mode extention

ergonaught 4y ago

I've taught most of my clients breathing exercises for the past 5-6 years. It's unnecessary to take it to the level of a formal pranayama practice to make fairly significant differences in physiological state, from which most everything else derives. The "coherent breathing" work that popped up sometime in the last ~15 years is pretty interesting, too.

herodoturtle 4y ago
Would you share some of your breathing lessons here? I only ask because there are several other commenters on here offering breathing tips, and you sound like an expert on this.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ergonaught 4y ago
  Ehhh. a) "Box Breathing", as mentioned in the article. Inhale, hold, exhale, hold. Same rate for each step. Ex: in for 4, hold for 4, out for 4, hold for 4. Repeat as long as you like. Very calming and "centering" (in the sense of moving you toward "neutral" physiologically). More effective if you can breathe through nose and use diaphragm/belly breathing, but that's optional. b) "Coherent Breathing". Inhale, exhale, at the same rate. Ex: a good rate is 5 seconds in, 5 seconds out. Also calming/centering, with an observed positive effect on heart rate variability. This is box breathing without the holds, so experiment to see which is preferable. Again, using the diaphragm is optional. c) "Gratitude Breathing", for lack of a better phrase. Inhale (explicitly diaphragm/belly breathing this time); think of something you're grateful for (thankful, happy, something positive); exhale slowly. The exhale should be twice as slow as the inhale. Ex: so inhale for a count of 4, think a happy thought, exhale for a count of 8. Repeat at least ten times (to overwhelm whatever was in working memory before you began), more if you like. This will calm, relax, and trigger a positive emotional/psychological state. d) "Relax and pass out breathing". As c) without the "positive thought". So a deep inhale, then a twice slower exhale. This is more purely relaxing than the others, can lead to sleep eventually. This does not have the double inhale a la the "cyclic sighing" mentioned in the article. e) "Panic and freak out breathing": short, rapid inhale and exhale, using the upper chest rather than diaphragm. Why do this? Anyway. It's been bizarre to me how many people cannot easily breathe using their diaphragms, whereas I have to consciously force myself to do otherwise. Anyway. There is all sorts of research on these, some good and most junk, but the main takeaway is that for some reason humans have the ability to consciously control our breathing, and the way we breathe has direct impact on our resulting physiological state. There are endless varieties of "breathwork" (Wim Hoff's stuff, actual Tummo breathing, 3721 variations of pranayama) because humans like to complicate things, but these cover the bases for routine self-care.

boxcarr 4y ago

From the blog post: > Interestingly, those who felt the greatest boost in mood also experienced the biggest drop in heart rate variability. A drop in HRV isn't generally good. So I check the paper, and found this: > No significant changes were found in heart rate variability or resting heart rate over the course of the study in either of the groups (Figures 4C and 4D) There was a reduction respiratory rate for those an increase in daily positive affect. Bottom line, unclear if this particular study points to a positive health outcome other than feeling happier.

curiouska 4y ago
From the paper: Interestingly, change in respiratory rate was negatively correlated with change in daily positive affect (Figure S5; r = - 0.24, p < 0.05), suggesting that participants who showed the highest reduction in respiratory rate also showed the highest daily increase in positive affect over the course of the study (Figure S5).
curiouska 4y ago
But as you said, the main finding reported was an increase positive affect.

kerpotgh 4y ago

I’d like to point out that even though the Wim Hoff technique is based on pranayama, he recommends something pranayama actively asks you not to do. Exhale completely and then hold it for as long as you can.

hestefisk 4y ago

I use the box breathing technique for relaxation and de-stress. 4 seconds breathe in, 4 seconds hold, 4 seconds breathe out, 4 seconds hold. Then repeat. It’s great for calming the fight or flight response in me.

dragonsh 4y ago

1 point by dragonsh 3 minutes ago | root | parent | next | edit | delete [–] I follow these simple rules for breathing 1. Breathe to stomach not chest. 2. Breathe by nose (unless swimming or underwater). 3. Inhalation time and exhalation time should be equal and gap between inhalation and exhalation should be sum of it. If it takes x seconds to inhale exhalation should begin after 2x seconds and should finish in x seconds Retention (2x) = inhalation time (x) + exhalation time (x). All the pranayam and yogic techniques try to make it natural to have this pattern and symmetry in our breathing process.

deleted 4y ago
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nprateem 4y ago
No they don't

moomoo11 4y ago

I have a bad habit of holding my breath for a long time. I don't do it on purpose, sometimes when I'm super focused I just notice I haven't taken a breathe in a while. Its kind of alarming tbh when it happens, not sure if maybe this will help.

nradov 4y ago
Why is that a bad habit? What are the negative consequences?
- moomoo11 4y ago
  Coz I’m out of breath

smohare 4y ago

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robofanatic 4y ago

When you say OM (Aum) out loud properly you do controlled breathing. Here is the way I was taught. 1. relax. 2. deep inhale. 3. pause (1 count) 4. say 'O' (2 or 3 counts, you can stretch it further if you can). Here you are basically exhaling through mouth. 5. slowly transition from 'O' to 'M'. for a brief period in the transition try to say 'O' nasally. might need a bit of practice but basically you are slowly transitioning from exhaling via mouth to exhaling via nose. 6. as you completely switch to 'M' your mouth is shut and you are totally exhaling via nose. Stretch 'M' as long as you can. 7. repeat this cycle. Once you find the rhythm its quite mentally relaxing.

ramshanker 4y ago
Mine lessons in primary school was a bit of variation. 3 Steps, to be repeated thrice in the order written. 1. Stretch O and keep M short. 2. Keep O and M equal length. 3. Keep O short and stretch M.

knaik94 4y ago

I found that doing breathing exercises in isolation were very boring and I couldn't get myself to care. But using structured breathing while exercising made it way more enjoyable. Having physical cues for the different steps helped make it more of a measurable skill where I notice improvements over time. Musicians and athletes practice structured breathing as a way of building cardio and increasing lung capacity. Your lungs don't change, you just learn to control airflow better. The way "ancient traditions" are frequently framed makes me avoid and treat them like pseudoscience. Framing it from the persepctive of an athlete helped me evaluate it more seriously. Mindful meditation is beneficial but completely indepedent from breathing exercises and you don't need the former to get benefits from the latter. I am not arguing the value or validity of "ancient techniques", I am sharing my initial bias when I was first introduced to pranayama, and how it's taught as if it exists in isolation. This post doesn't mention sports or singing/musicians once. There's many techniques but box breathing where you take extra air in after you feel like your lungs are full, and a longer period exhaling than inhaling, is the primary technique I was taught for marching band/trombone. The "cyclic sighing" described in the paper, but with a longer inhale and exhale. We did, at ~80 bpm, 4 counts for inhale, 4 counts of holding, and 8 counts of exhale, with whatever extra "sip" of air we could manage to inhale during the hold. If you're not used to breathing exercises, doing 4+4+8 a few times can leave you light headed. It's normal to cough from the extra sip of air.

bamboozled 4y ago

Sometimes I hit my rowing machine really hard to try beat a previous record, so hard that I really feel like I've "cooked myself", I feel like I need to breathe to the point where I have to remove my ear buds to get more air or else it kind of feels like I could suffocate :) It's a brutal machine. I'm now fitter and rarely get that "gassed" even when I push myself. It's such hard work that I decided to stop drinking for a year to make it more tolerable to exercise with the rowing machine. One of my friends tried to beat my time on the rower and was so sore for 3 nights, he had nightmares about the rower ha. Anyway, it obviously made me question should I be doing more for my body, including breathing exercises, but what this kind of thing also makes me really think about is how stupid air pollution is. What it would feel like not to have access to fresh clean air and how bad it would be to be suffocating. What a privilege it is to be able to breathe and it makes me feel like I want to go plant trees. Has anyone else had similar thoughts during exercise / breathe training? If anything I think it's good to become aware of the breathe and air for this reason alone, it would make the world a better place.