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Official Warning: Zero3K
- Temporary_31337 4y agoIs no one commenting for fear of being harassed?
- ericol 4y agoIn my experience (And observations), depending on _interest_ posts start gathering comments after at least the hour mark. This post right now is 25 mins old, although its' weird that it's so high in the front page (Probably a slow Saturday)
- barefeg 4y agoOff topic and probably the wrong place to ask, but how are the posts ranked? I have also seen posts that are very high but with little to no comments
- wlesieutre 4y agoFrom the FAQ: How are stories ranked? The basic algorithm divides points by a power of the time since a story was submitted. Comments in threads are ranked the same way. Other factors affecting rank include user flags, anti-abuse software, software which demotes overheated discussions, account or site weighting, and moderator action.
- andrewflnr 4y agoIndeed, the "overheated discussions" factor probably downgrades (ed: rather, tends to downgrade) heavily-commented stories, not the other way around. I for one tend to regard a high upvote/comment ratio as a positive sign about a story.
- dspillett 4y agoMeasures of “overheated discussion” probably can't distinguish easily between matters that are purely divisive and those that are genuinely complex/interesting/ground-breaking/surprising/etc (so deserving of that much of people's time). Whether punishing based on this measure for this reason is beneficial overall or not is a divisive discussion in its own right!
- andrewflnr 4y agoNot easily, no, but I think a very fast reply frequency, especially between lots of pairs of two people, is more indicative of heat than light. :) (who knows, maybe the algorithm will think that about this reply) Genuinely interesting topics probably require more time to write worthwhile comments on, and draw in more people. (To be clear, I'm not implying nor do I think that HN uses raw comment-count as a signal of overheating, just expressing my surprise at the previous poster's surprise at seeing high-ranked stories with few comments, since the correlation should run the other way if at all.)
- lifeisstillgood 4y agoWell I was but now you mentioned it ... :-) I just think it's sad, and one of the many things we need to think about to fix FOSS, because FOSS will save us :-)
- xwdv 4y ago[flagged]
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- throwaway0x7E6 4y ago[flagged]
- 8jy89hui 4y agoThis is unacceptable. Please don’t say such hateful things on hacker news. It really brings the whole site down.
- throwaway0x7E6 4y agono it doesn't, these things get flagged in minutes and only the people with showdead get to appreciate these
- paganel 4y agoI have no affiliation with the ReactOS project but I honestly think that the doxxing could and should have been avoided (assuming the name included in the title is a person's real name). It probably also goes against some HN rules, but I may be wrong on that.
- zacharyvoase 4y agoPosting the name of a harasser is not doxxing.
- serf 4y agothat's a handy tool for doxxing, just claim some kind of ill-will and you're off the hook. (( no, it's still doxxing. ))
- pifm_guy 4y agoYes it is, especially if it's posted with no evidence backing up the claims. For all we know, this might be a private dispute between two people, and, if presented all the information, Bryan's side might be the side that sounds more reasonable...
- dspillett 4y ago> with no evidence backing up the claims While the post fails to directly present evidence, and could be improved by doing so, given the nature of the complaint perhaps simply searching in the bug tracker and related forums would easily surface said evidence.
- paganel 4y agoI was on HN when the Boston bombings happened, trust me, you don't want to let random people on the Internet doxx other people, no matter how smart or righteous the people doing the doxxing think they are.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
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- chayesfss 4y ago[flagged]
- chayesfss 4y ago[flagged]
- dang 4y agoWe've banned this account for repeatedly posting unsubstantive comments. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- trashburger 4y agoIt seems that every big project attracts that one persistent weirdo who comes by from time to time and posts silly stuff. I've noticed this pattern for a while now. I don't want to give names but I've at least seen some... bizarre issues on the LLVM tracker, for example.
- adenozine 4y agoOh man, yeah there has been some absolute dogshit ones on LLVM. The Docker one has also seen some pretty freaky weirdos. It’s a bit sad, we’re all on the same OSS team in the end. I’ve never found it that difficult to keep it cut and dry on software repos, I don’t know why people don’t just save the venom for forums and social media like the good ol days.
- pwdisswordfish9 4y agoGot some links? Would love to read.
- adenozine 4y agohttps://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/issues/37930 https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/issues/37930 Here’s lattner telling some guy off. There’s none that I can think of that are super memeworthy or anything. It’s usually just insecure devs with a little Dunning Kruger cocktail in the mix. Certainly not anybody bothering dozens of people manually, for months, like in the link. That’s pretty wild.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- loeg 4y agoYeah. Same story on every open source bugzilla I've been on.
- pifm_guy 4y agoLuckily, most projects seem to have a few supporters who want to help the project but don't have the technical skills yet to do so. For these people, managing the forums and bug reports is a valuable way contribute. They can keep the noise and disruption of the craziest spammers to a minimum.
- blondin 4y ago[flagged]
- ahelwer 4y ago"I saw some random crap on the internet so now other people have to start behaving in a certain way" is certainly one of many possible ways to navigate the world.
- thedonkeycometh 4y ago[dead]
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- BryanKirk 4y ago[dead]
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- Waterluvian 4y agoThere are some people that are so divergent from understanding and being able to perform or at least emulate normal social behaviour that they become harmful and problematic. I watched one, quite closely, develop through high school. I can still hear his smug “nah” any time you said something he didn’t agree with. Well, not “agree with” but “that he knew to be universally correct.” Ultimately he ended up unemployable and bitter while his family tripled down on him being the victim because of an Asperger’s diagnosis. Moved to central Canada last time I heard. I think what I learned from the experience is at some point you’ve got to compartmentalize harmful people from your groups and inevitably a growing number of segments of society, even if that feels wrong in some way. It’s more wrong to let them perpetually abuse people. Edit: I’m not going to litigate this. If you don’t trust me or don’t want to accept that this person was truly abusive and harmful, or if you believe that victims should be made to tolerate abuse, I can’t help you.
- TheAceOfHearts 4y ago[flagged]
- Waterluvian 4y agoI don’t tolerate abusive people.
- throwaway2214 4y agoYou probably are considered abusive to someone, you might not even know it.
- Waterluvian 4y agoI have absolutely been abusive at times growing up and probably in my professional life. I’ve been put in my place many times. And I learn and grow from that. I was not a perfect teenager and I’m definitely not a perfect adult. I hope people wouldn’t tolerate it if I did it to them.
- 4y ago
- system2 4y agoSomewhat very unprofessional warning and straight-up doxing. What would be the alternative to this warning?
- pifm_guy 4y agoIndeed... If I had to ban a community member for bad behaviour, I would want to do it in the most professional way possible, and never to directly accuse OP of anything not backed up with a direct link to evidence of wrongdoing.
- jiveturkey 4y ago> Some devs were harassed > recommend to contact the local authorities Does this kind of behavior meet the bar for legal harassment? In California it seems not per https://www.courts.ca.gov/1258.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en https://www.courts.ca.gov/1258.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en which requires a threat of violence to rise to the level of harassment. Does the post's recommendation rise to the level of legal advice? This all feels very childish to me.
- WhiteBlueSkies 4y ago[flagged]
- dspillett 4y agoA number of jurisdictions have legally codified definitions specifically for online harassment and this behaviour certainly counts in some of them. I suspect that in most jurisdictions this behaviour could be of legal concern. The other word they used, which I note you don't question, is stalking. This sort of behaviour is even more likely to infringed on laws (which may not exist, or are well enforced, in all jurisdictions but certainly do and are in some) intended to manage that more specific form of harassment.
- stjohnswarts 4y agoI had an embedded project once that was a personal one, but a few dozen people seemed to have used parts of it in their own stuff (it was MIT licensed). Then along came "Henry" (made up to protect the not so innocent). He had some ideas on the architecture. They weren't bad but I didn't care to change the core of my project and told him I would be happy if he forked my stuff and reused whatever he liked and I'd put an "alternatives" section in the github readme and that would be that. Henry was having -none- of that, he wanted to "work with me", etc, etc. Somehow he eventually got my phone number and was actually calling me out of the blue. Luckily it was a google voice number that I could easily drop. I just shut down the project, sent the people I knew who were actively using it notice and final git checkin of my RC changes, put a notice on the page I was shutting it down and to get it before I deleted my repo and account. The other stuff I had on there was private so I just created a new github moved it out and then closed out the other account after a month. It's quite scary how far people will go to troll and interfere in your life over something so unimportant as a small github side project.
- crypt0x 4y agoThis is beyond shitty behavior, especially considering that most OSS folks do it in their free time… uugghhh.
- WhiteBlueSkies 4y ago[flagged]
- _zzaw 4y agoGive it a rest, Bryan
- KyeRussell 4y agoThis accusation of “doxxing” by a few people seems a bit unjustified to me. As a drive by viewer of this internet spat, you’ve probably got zero idea how much this person implicates their real-life identity in their online presence. If you want to both-sides this, there was much more credible arguments to make.
- criddell 4y agoThey buried the lede. At the bottom they say they are working on a lawsuit against Kirk and want other people who have been harassed to share their story. How could they do that without saying who they are preparing to sue?
- shadowgovt 4y agoBut also, doxxing is totally acceptable to protect people from threats including harassment. We are well past the era where we maintained the fantasy that the internet was separate from real life. People who are acting out online sometimes also act dangerous IRL and it is therefore prudent to figure out who they are IRL if they've proven to be bad actors online.
- 2h 4y agono, this is not acceptable. If you have an issue with someone online, ban their email, ban their IP and move on. It is not appropriate to go hunting this person in real life. you yourself have then become the creep, the person acting inappropriately. you've become the very person you have issue with. to anyone reading this, DO NOT listen to the person I am replying to. Even if this extreme case seems "justified", its all too easy to fall down a slippery slope, where you start doxxing anyone that slights you. I have been the victim of this, its NOT OK.
- Blackthorn 4y ago> no, this is not acceptable. If you have an issue with someone online, ban their email, ban their IP and move on Here's the thing: they did do that. But the banned person would not move on, and continued to evade the ban and be a pile of misery for everyone involved. "Ban them and move on" is the sort of advice that works great until it doesn't.
- jslql 4y ago[dead]
- actionfromafar 4y agoHave you? Bryan might want to have a word with you, soon.
- WhiteBlueSkies 4y agoBAAS, Bryan-as-a-service to nag you weekly to fix bugs. Could be a profitable idea. lol.
- actionfromafar 4y agoTo be authentic, it would have to nag random people on the internet to fix your bugs. :)
- bamboozled 4y agoGoing to be fun when these are bots that use ChatGPT to harass online communities (if this already isn't that).
- qwertox 4y agoOr the other way around, bots sucking the time and energy out of these people. Possibly even while others grabbed a bowl of popcorn.
- bamboozled 4y agoThat's kind of what I meant, it will just be believable enough to make people think it's a real conversation but maintainers waste time on it and it really doesn't go anywhere. On the other had, as much as I've had fun with ChatGPT, it does really seem quite a long ways off being able to understand context and write a meaningful response that people would believe is a real person.
- pwdisswordfish9 4y agoWhile I'm sure it's annoying, this post is not a good look and reads rather unhinged. I'm also not sure what it's meant to accomplish other than venting.
- phendrenad2 4y agoAgreed. Remove all hyperbole and the crime here is... sending too many pull requests? I'm skeptical.
- tempaway90210 4y agoFor those that don't believe doxxing is a problem, it is superficially easy for a troll to fake an identity online, slowly spilling fake personal data, and then be "doxxed" to the Fake persona. I may have done this 15 years ago to someone that I felt deserved it at the time, on a forum I enjoyed trolling and to a coworkers identity that eventually came through. I'm not this insane anymore.
- heleninboodler 4y agoIt's fascinating how reading the post makes me think, "well, it's one person's side of the story, and I don't really know how bad the behavior is," but then this HN comment thread, when compared to typical HN discourse, appears to be solid evidence for the claims in the post. (turn on showdead and read some flagged messages to see what I mean)
- Aeolun 4y agoLast ticket I can find where they’re mentioned: https://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-17868 https://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-17868 Anywhere they’re mentioned: https://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-17499?jql=comment%20~%20Zero3K%20ORDER%20BY%20created%20DESC https://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-17499?jql=comment%20~%2... Issues created by them: https://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-17492?jql=reporter%20in%20(Zero3K)%20ORDER%20BY%20created%20DESC https://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-17492?jql=reporter%20in... I guess the original account was banned somewhere in March 2021? But at a quick glance I can’t quite see what the problem is.
- Aeolun 4y agoHuh, 30 minutes ago this was at the top of the front page, and now it’s nr 80? Did it get penalized?
- Red_Tarsius 4y agoI have mixed feelings on calling him out by name. It sounds like the person is going through tough times. This obsessive behaviour doesn't describe someone who's living a happy, fulfilling life. The bug reports might be his flawed way to reach out and be part of the community. I'm not arguing for people to enable his negative behaviour. I just wish there was another solution than the nuclear option: this public warning might severely affect his mental state and career prospects. If he lacks any support network, this could mean years of downward spiral and isolation. Would you consider adding a sort of "way out" clause to soften the blow? Something along the lines of waiting for an apology and his public promise not to harrass other people?
- Lev1a 4y agoContinued harassment and stalker-like behavior over years with obviously no intention of stopping his behavior. It seems to me issuing a public warning about this persons "paper trail" is probably the only real option to shut down this behavior that these OSS projects can see.
- Blackthorn 4y agoThis person has had a way out for aa long as the behavior has been going on. They simply need to stop doing it! Literally just stop and never interact with the ReactOS project again. After that, nobody from said project will need to worry about them ever again, and they won't have to go public about this sort of thing. The way out has always been there: said person just disengages. People like this refuse to use it.
- vnjd 4y agoI used to know Bryan, a long, long time ago. He would stand and stare into the windows of girls he fantasized about. Very creepy. Not surprised he's doing this. The guy has no boundaries.
- IYasha 4y agoPlot twist: he works for Microsoft )