16 ms·
Astonishing. Based on reports from employees on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthwestAirlines/comments/zw32yt/psa_from_a_swa_employee_since_the_company_won
by avalys 4y ago
Astonishing. Based on reports from employees on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthwestAirlines/comments/zw32yt/psa_from_a_swa_employee_since_the_company_wont/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthwestAirlines/comments/zw32yt/p...), the actual story here is that Southwest has had a complete operational failure and is simply incapable of determining where their crews are, what flights they are eligible for, and associating them with flights on the schedule.
It sounds like there is a semi-automated system which broke somehow, or more likely failed to support the load of cascading changes that resulted from weather disruptions, and they simply don't have the capacity or flexibility to deal with this other than by cancelling flights for three days until they can sort everything out manually.
Reading between the lines a bit, one possible root cause is that their semi-automated system required crew members to update their status by phone when something goes wrong (perhaps with another human in the loop), and the sheer volume of disruption overloaded their phone system and resulted in the automated system becoming completely decoupled from the actual state of reality without sufficient bandwidth in the phone channel to get it back in sync in a reasonable amount of time.
- 0x445442 4y agoYeah the storm angle is a lie.
- BitwiseFool 4y agoThis is hearsay, but I believe any cancellations due to weather are not subject to fines and fees from the FAA and the airline is not obligated to provide more generous compensation/accommodation for customers. So if there's any reasonable way to blame a failure on inclement weather airline companies will do so without hesitation.
- 0x445442 4y agoYou’re wrong dude. https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthwestAirlines/comments/zw6upo/hey_guys_swa_pilot_with_a_little_information/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthwestAirlines/comments/zw6upo/h...
- ipython 4y agoHow does that post in any way refute the parents point? I agree with the parent that management will try like hell to blame this on the weather- heck they already are. Just check out their press releases.
- 0x445442 4y agoYeah I’m a bit confused how the comment even relates to mine. I took it to mean that my assertion that laying blame on the weather for this mess is bogus and a lie. But that assumption may be wrong.
- ThunderSizzle 4y agoHe's not wrong. Every airline will attempt to blame operational issues on non-finable causes, such as weather.
- tedunangst 4y agoSo what are the finable causes for flight cancellation?
- bumby 4y ago>cancellations due to weather are not subject to fines and fees from the FAA I thought this too, but apparently there are no federal regulations other than reimbursement for the direct costs. "Airlines are not required to provide passengers with money or other compensation for costs that fall outside of the cancelled airline ticket and fees tied directly to the airline ticket (such as baggage fees, seat upgrades, etc.) when flights are cancelled." [1] "Each airline has its own policies about what it will do for customers on bumped or cancelled flights. There are no federal requirements." [2] However, there are rules around "bumping" passengers on a flight. "An airline is required to compensate you after involuntarily bumping you from an oversold flight in certain situations. However, there are many situations where you are not entitled to compensation." [3] [1] https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/flight-delays-cancellations https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer... [2] https://www.faa.gov/faq/what-are-policies-bumped-or-cancelled-flights-0 https://www.faa.gov/faq/what-are-policies-bumped-or-cancelle... [3] https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/bumping-oversales https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...
- kube-system 4y agoIt is likely both. Scheduling is quite easy when it goes normally. Scheduling becomes a more difficult task when more exceptions happen. That reddit post is by is some boots-on-the-ground employee, not someone who understands the algorithmic details of SWAs somewhat unique routing challenges.
- phpisthebest 4y agoIt seems they do their scheduling like they do their seating... it is all Free for All
- bombcar 4y agoShould just text all pilots to bum-rush any plane they’re equipped to fly. Why not add the two front seats into the free for all?
- kube-system 4y agoYou joke, but being able to swap any pilot to any plane is part of the reason their fleet is 100% 737s.
- EFreethought 4y ago> Scheduling is quite easy when it goes normally. Scheduling becomes a more difficult task when more exceptions happen. I think some slack/spare capacity or redundancy somewhere would make a LOT of problems less likely to happen. Running lean only works out when nothing goes wrong. I know I should not be shocked by the extent of human stupidity, but why the "business" types do not get this is bizarre to me. And paying people more would help too.
- HDThoreaun 4y agoThe airline business is too competitive for labor slack. People put up with spirit’s bullshit because it’s $5 cheaper. Any airline that incorporates slack will immediately find itself without customers. If they make it to a catastrophe it would work out, but it’s extremely unlikely that they will be on business that long.
- CharlesW 4y agoAccording to that post they also have no idea where bags are: "Checked bags are currently a disaster. Plan to not see your checked luggage for at least a month. In the interest of 100% transparency, some bags will be 30+ days lost in the system."
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- shmatt 4y agoim kind of doubting that thread, not necessarily fraud but not every employee has the full picture * this memo[1] from the SWA VP thats circulating dated December 21st calling a staffing emergency saying all hell is about to break loose. I'm pretty sure that guy didn't know of the software crash before it happened * Every single piece of checked in luggage is going to take 30+ days to be found? Weird none of the extensive press has mentioned people not getting their bag. Also its pretty much an airport thing and not an airline thing. Airports are in charge of deplaning your luggage and bringing it to you * They're running 40% of flights completely manually with 0 scheduling software? That's extremely impressive [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/ruthschmidt/status/1607460985861988352 https://mobile.twitter.com/ruthschmidt/status/16074609858619...
- phpisthebest 4y agoThere have been plently of reporting about the bag issue, including a Chicago local reporter posting a video of 100's or maybe even 1000's of bags in chicago most of southwest tags on them It appears there was a MASSIVE disconnect between baggage and people, bags are ending up all over the place even though the people never left.
- tiahura 4y agoSounds the the perfect setup for an AirTag commercial.
- bombcar 4y agoiPhone alert: there are ten thousand airtags near you
- giantrobot 4y agoWell that at least narrows it down to near you. /s
- joezydeco 4y agoI'm kind of curious about that. If AirTags rely on nearby iPhones to capture tag IDs as they pass by and relay them to Apple, will a ramp worker with an iPhone in his pocket start seeing shorter battery life?
- caycep 4y agoGranted my usually routine flight in 3 days, from BUR to SJC got canceled. And no way to get thru and the usual handy dandy "full refund!" button has been replaced w just an email form with "we'll get back to you!" I sort of believe it
- hinkley 4y agoSomewhere there’s a retired guy sipping his morning coffee and saying, “Told ya.”
- CyberDildonics 4y agoThere are people actively doing interviews saying that.
- pembrook 4y agoIncidents like this go a long way toward teaching corporate America that software shouldn't be some forgotten "IT" vertical on your org chart that you staff with random contractors. Software is core to your business. If you don't invest in it, you're going to pay the price.
- bmitc 4y agoPeople mistaking software as something that just does something is the problem. Software is stored and executable knowledge, so if some component of that breaks down, you need to be able to pull it from somewhere else. Otherwise, you get situations like this.
- lezojeda 4y agoThey are already pretty resentful at us because we have such high salaries compared to the rest of the population... I bet that nobody is willing to give any penny more to their IT departments
- hintymad 4y ago> the actual story here is that Southwest has had a complete operational failure and is simply incapable of determining where their crews are, what flights they are eligible for, and associating them with flights on the schedule. This is amazing. Southwest was famous for its operational efficiency and quality. Companies eagerly learned from them. I wonder what has changed.
- iamtheworstdev 4y agoit's definitely epic. I know this is anecdotal but a friend of mine and pilot for Southwest had to pay for his own hotel room after he captained a flight a couple of days ago. SW apparently thought he was in another state (and it wasn't a neighboring one) even though he just flew the flight that they scheduled him on. Not long (hours) after that he was told to drive to the nearest Southwest physical location and check in. Rumor is that all Southwest pilots were told that a physical presence was required to verify location.
- GavinMcG 4y agoNothing necessarily changed. Efficiency can become fragility, and quality is rarely measured in a way that includes rare events—partly by definition, and partly because we tend to ignore externalities and unlikely scenarios when we make evaluations.
- achow 4y agoThe Reddit post is now deleted. Saved screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/bchgmm7.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/bchgmm7.jpeg
- pwillia7 4y agoUnremoved reddit post: On behalf of all employees: WE ARE SORRY! I will give it to you straight- this meltdown was caused entirely by Southwest. It was triggered by the storm, but the failure to recover quickly is on Southwest 100%. If you are still hearing “weather” almost a week after the storm, it’s not true. Couple main points: 1. Please be patient with us. We desperately want to do everything we can to get you where you’re going. 2. This shitstorm is because the crew scheduling software went belly up and it almost all has to be unraveled over the phone with crew members calling scheduling. If we had better technology which eliminated the need for phone calls, this would have been fixed by now. 3. If you are able to find alternative transportation to your final destination- DO IT. Another airline, bus, train, Lyft, rental car, ANYTHING. Southwest WILL NOT be able to get you to your destination anytime in the next few days. 4. Like I said, it’s gonna take at least a week to get back to normal operations for Southwest. If anyone has questions, I will try to answer them. I work ground ops at one of SWA’s hubs. EDIT FOR FAQs—— Checked bags are currently a disaster. Plan to not see your checked luggage for at least a month. In the interest of 100% transparency, some bags will be 30+ days lost in the system. Will my flight for X date go out? Next 3 days- plan on a cancellation. 4-7 days- likely to go as scheduled. 7+ days- should see operational recovery.
- wwweston 4y agoOther Reddit discussion (with the occasional insider chiming in): https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/zwd1fq/u4sammich_explains_why_southwest_airlines_is/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/zwd1fq/u4sammich_ex... https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/zw5lsl/southwest_pilots_hows_it_going/ https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/zw5lsl/southwest_pi...
- indymike 4y ago> Southwest has had a complete operational failure and is simply incapable of determining where their crews are, what flights they are eligible for, and associating them with flights on the schedule. This has to be really hard as most systems were probably built assuming something that smelled like full staffing. Pilots can only fly X hours, and flight attendants usually can't be forced to take overtime ... there have to be similar constraints on ground crew, maintenance and gate workers, too. So when you are planning for an understaffed airline, it has to be extremely difficult to optimize where the failures will occur.
- mysterydip 4y agoSomewhere buried in a million lines of code is the comment "// this should never happen" that is in the block currently being executed.
- shapefrog 4y ago// add fix for snowstorm here