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>If Google isn’t making any money from you on Gmail Isn't Gmail the core pillar of Google's ad network? Whoever is logged into Gmail tells Google who is using

by s3000 4y ago

>If Google isn’t making any money from you on Gmail Isn't Gmail the core pillar of Google's ad network? Whoever is logged into Gmail tells Google who is using an IP address. Facebook is the other ad network because they can also link requests to ids. Facebook can monetize Instagram because they can sell targeted ads. Likewise, Google can monetize Youtube. If ads can be sold without those ids, Instagram and Youtube could have grown on their won. Is this an emperor's clothing situation and nobody talks about this or do I have a complete misunderstanding of ad technology?

YetAnotherNick 4y ago
> Whoever is logged into Gmail tells Google who is using an IP address. Google already has most people's IP address through search. Google is just providing free email because they want control, and I am willing to bet that it would be very hard to make profit, both direct or indirect, through gmail.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Without the Google login, Google has a bunch of 32-bit numbers from people’s search activity. With gmail, they now know a lot more about what’s behind those 32-bit numbers.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    How many billions does Google pay Apple to be the default search? How about email? Search > email, though I think they're both pillars.
    - adastra22 4y ago
      They don’t have to pay anyone to use Gmail. People prefer gmail and seek it out themselves.
      - hericium 4y ago
        They may be paying to be the first option in "choose your email provider" lists. Although Apple's Mail.app (both iOS and macOS) offers their own and Microsoft's services before Google's. For Google, the easiest way to gain new GMail users is to not deliver mail coming to existing users from 3rd party services or to throw it into trash/spam folders for no reason.
        petre 4y ago
        That option should be standard unless Apple wants an DOJ/EU antitrust case against them.
  - jefftk 4y ago
    It sounds like you're describing using emails to target/personalize ads, which they don't do?
    - Raidion 4y ago
      The data from Gmail isn't what's valuable to Google, it's the fact that targeted ads are more profitable and Google can target you with ads accurately because you logged in and identified yourself to access Gmail.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      I’m describing using telemetry correlating which IP addresses/devices have used specific gmail accounts, nothing to do with the contents of those emails. The gmail account just as a correlation ID has a ton of value in search.
  - elzbardico 4y ago
    Let's remember that Gmail opened the door for Google to become the default identity provider for many people. A lot of consumer and behavioral data can be inferred from every service account tied via OAuth to google. Were you searching for homes to buy? You'll probably use your google account. Bought a couple of home automation devices, cameras, and doorbells? Chances are you are using a google login. Use Waze in your car? Now google knows what car you drive and the places where you go and can tie it nicely with all other pieces of data because you are using your google account. This is invaluable for them. From your usage of a google account, they can infer your family arrangements, probably what your job is, your income and wealth level, tastes and habits.
deng 4y ago
> Isn't Gmail the core pillar of Google's ad network? Absolutely. GMail is the main reason people are logged into their Google account all the time on their computers and mobile devices. It is absolutely essential for tracking.
markdestouches 4y ago
>Instagram and Youtube could have grown on their Hadn't they grown on their own before they got bought up?
- hericium 4y ago
  They had potential but were not making money nor had a visible path to monetization.
- scarface74 4y ago
  YouTube was about to be sued into oblivion and even if they weren’t, they were hemorrhaging money with no revenue stream in sight
taspeotis 4y ago
Plus they can ... read your emails? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28631732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28631732
- hericium 4y ago
  I'd say it's more about attachments: invoices, receipts, anything with purchases and/or financial info.
  - cj 4y ago
    In most cases the same information you can glean from someone’s email inbox, you can likely glean the same accuracy by looking at their google search history. I would guess Google doesn’t read emails because the data is more difficult to parse (there’s a lot of it) and, when compared to intent based interests that can be gleaned from your google searches, the value of the content in your inbox is lower than most people think.
- skybrian 4y ago
  They could but claim they don't, and I don't think anyone has proven otherwise. Hard to make money from something you're not actually doing.
  - api 4y ago
    I assume they are. Of course I assume if it’s not end to end encrypted it’s not private and is being read or scanned by someone.
    - amf12 4y ago
      Well yes they do. Even spam filtering needs them to read the emails. But they claim they don't use emails for advertising.
    - kmlx 4y ago
      i’ve replied above. they claim they do not read your emails. regarding encryption i’ve only found this: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6330403?hl=en#zippy=%2Csmime-enhanced-encryption https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6330403?hl=en#zippy=%... > Email encryption in transit S/MIME is used to support enhanced encryption in transit, and automatically encrypts your outgoing emails if it can. > Important: These steps only work if you have S/MIME enabled on your account
mountainb 4y ago
Google did make money providing email for one of my companies with G Suite. Then something screwed up happened that disrupted service, their support was worse than useless, and I will never pay for any non-advertising Google product ever again.
- gernb 4y ago
  what happened? My experience with GSuite support has been great.
  - nibbleshifter 4y ago
    I've also had adverse experiences with GSuite support tbh. Basically account recovery is next to impossible. If your GSuite admin fucks up somehow and gets locked out, good luck getting back in lol.

by s3000 4y ago

YetAnotherNick 4y ago

> Whoever is logged into Gmail tells Google who is using an IP address. Google already has most people's IP address through search. Google is just providing free email because they want control, and I am willing to bet that it would be very hard to make profit, both direct or indirect, through gmail.

sokoloff 4y ago
Without the Google login, Google has a bunch of 32-bit numbers from people’s search activity. With gmail, they now know a lot more about what’s behind those 32-bit numbers.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  How many billions does Google pay Apple to be the default search? How about email? Search > email, though I think they're both pillars.
  - adastra22 4y ago
    They don’t have to pay anyone to use Gmail. People prefer gmail and seek it out themselves.
    - hericium 4y ago
      They may be paying to be the first option in "choose your email provider" lists. Although Apple's Mail.app (both iOS and macOS) offers their own and Microsoft's services before Google's. For Google, the easiest way to gain new GMail users is to not deliver mail coming to existing users from 3rd party services or to throw it into trash/spam folders for no reason.
      - petre 4y ago
        That option should be standard unless Apple wants an DOJ/EU antitrust case against them.
- jefftk 4y ago
  It sounds like you're describing using emails to target/personalize ads, which they don't do?
  - Raidion 4y ago
    The data from Gmail isn't what's valuable to Google, it's the fact that targeted ads are more profitable and Google can target you with ads accurately because you logged in and identified yourself to access Gmail.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    I’m describing using telemetry correlating which IP addresses/devices have used specific gmail accounts, nothing to do with the contents of those emails. The gmail account just as a correlation ID has a ton of value in search.
- elzbardico 4y ago
  Let's remember that Gmail opened the door for Google to become the default identity provider for many people. A lot of consumer and behavioral data can be inferred from every service account tied via OAuth to google. Were you searching for homes to buy? You'll probably use your google account. Bought a couple of home automation devices, cameras, and doorbells? Chances are you are using a google login. Use Waze in your car? Now google knows what car you drive and the places where you go and can tie it nicely with all other pieces of data because you are using your google account. This is invaluable for them. From your usage of a google account, they can infer your family arrangements, probably what your job is, your income and wealth level, tastes and habits.

deng 4y ago

> Isn't Gmail the core pillar of Google's ad network? Absolutely. GMail is the main reason people are logged into their Google account all the time on their computers and mobile devices. It is absolutely essential for tracking.

markdestouches 4y ago

>Instagram and Youtube could have grown on their Hadn't they grown on their own before they got bought up?

hericium 4y ago
They had potential but were not making money nor had a visible path to monetization.
scarface74 4y ago
YouTube was about to be sued into oblivion and even if they weren’t, they were hemorrhaging money with no revenue stream in sight

taspeotis 4y ago

Plus they can ... read your emails? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28631732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28631732

hericium 4y ago
I'd say it's more about attachments: invoices, receipts, anything with purchases and/or financial info.
- cj 4y ago
  In most cases the same information you can glean from someone’s email inbox, you can likely glean the same accuracy by looking at their google search history. I would guess Google doesn’t read emails because the data is more difficult to parse (there’s a lot of it) and, when compared to intent based interests that can be gleaned from your google searches, the value of the content in your inbox is lower than most people think.
skybrian 4y ago
They could but claim they don't, and I don't think anyone has proven otherwise. Hard to make money from something you're not actually doing.
- api 4y ago
  I assume they are. Of course I assume if it’s not end to end encrypted it’s not private and is being read or scanned by someone.
  - amf12 4y ago
    Well yes they do. Even spam filtering needs them to read the emails. But they claim they don't use emails for advertising.
  - kmlx 4y ago
    i’ve replied above. they claim they do not read your emails. regarding encryption i’ve only found this: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6330403?hl=en#zippy=%2Csmime-enhanced-encryption https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6330403?hl=en#zippy=%... > Email encryption in transit S/MIME is used to support enhanced encryption in transit, and automatically encrypts your outgoing emails if it can. > Important: These steps only work if you have S/MIME enabled on your account

mountainb 4y ago

Google did make money providing email for one of my companies with G Suite. Then something screwed up happened that disrupted service, their support was worse than useless, and I will never pay for any non-advertising Google product ever again.

gernb 4y ago
what happened? My experience with GSuite support has been great.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  I've also had adverse experiences with GSuite support tbh. Basically account recovery is next to impossible. If your GSuite admin fucks up somehow and gets locked out, good luck getting back in lol.