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Ask HN: What to do with a coffee plantation with about 8000 trees?
My dad left me a coffee plantation and I have no experience in this at all, nor did he. It is freshly planted so it won't reach peak production until around 2026. But I want to learn how I could go about taking care of it and eventually start selling beans. Do you have any resource I can take a look at to learn more about coffee and its production process?
- NotYourLawyer 4y agoWho’s currently running the plantation? You need to hire someone who knows farming if you don’t already have such a person.
- tsingy 4y agoThe people my dad hired are taking care of it for now. It takes 3 to 4 years to get the first real harvest. I still have time before thinking of how to harvest and sell. For now I just want to keep the trees alive for that duration.
- NotYourLawyer 4y agoSure, I’m not even mostly talking about the harvest. I’m talking about doing everything that needs to be done to keep the trees alive and the place operating.
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- thesaintlives 4y agoThere is serious money in roasting and selling good coffee. Think vertically. Supply yourself beans and roast in rich locations!
- OJFord 4y agoI don't know anything about it, but I'd suggest the first question (to yourself) should be do you want to learn/do, or do you just want to own it and have it be productive/successful?
- tsingy 4y agoI want it to be successful, but for that it needs to be handled well. I'm from a poor country and people that can do that are rare and are probably running their own business. If I can hire someone, of course I would happily hand it over, but in the mean time I still need to learn enough to oversee how things go.
- forinti 4y agoThis is very important. I've witnessed friends inherit land and businesses they had little interest in and they tried holding on to it just because it was "in the family". If it's not your thing, just sell it and carry on with your life.
- OJFord 4y agoI didn't even mean sell it, just pay someone to manage it, or sell a lease on it.
- joecool1029 4y agohttps://www.amazon.com/Coffee-Growing-Processing-Sustainable-Production/dp/3527332537 https://www.amazon.com/Coffee-Growing-Processing-Sustainable... I've heard this book recommended a few times when this was brought up.
- tsingy 4y agoThanks for the link.
- kamphey 4y agoThere are roasting certificatations you can get. It might help knowing the work that is downstream of your coffee beans. If you have the cash and time, I recommend visiting roasters and other coffee farms. I took a 2 day roasting class on a coffee farm in Bali. Learned a TON in very little time.
- tsingy 4y agoThanks, I will take look into it.
- ckastner 4y agoHire a professional to do it for you. There's coffee as a hobby, and coffee as a professional business. 8000 trees is the latter.
- tsingy 4y agoPlanning to do that if I find someone competent enough. But that is hard when living a top 10 from the bottom poor country. Also, I still need to learn enough so I can still oversee how things go.
- gigatexal 4y agoWell find someone you trust and have them manage it. Give them some equity in the enterprise so your incentives are aligned then ask them to teach you the business of farming coffee. Wanting to learn the business so you can micro-manage your manager sounds like a recipe for disaster. That or sell it to a big coffee producer and go about your life doing things you’re good at.
- ckastner 4y agoI understand your dilemma, but I don't see a way around hiring a professional. Think of one of the simpler tasks. Say you need to fertilize the trees. When is the right time? What is the right amount? How many people do you need to fertilize 8000 trees in time? How do you finance that, including purchasing the fertilizer? Are you even allowed to purchase that much fertilizer (it's been often abused to make car bombs)? No idea whether fertilizing is even a thing with coffee, but other tasks won't be much simpler. If you can't hire one, is taking on a temporary partner (for a cut off the profit) an option?
- tsingy 4y agoAs you said it's a huge dilemma. I will keep it as green as possible, even if it cuts production by a big percentage. I'd rather have it fail that be not environmentally friendly. My life does not depend on it, I can afford to fail and that is why I want to try. I can hire people, labors are cheap where I live so that won't be a problem. A partner is fine if competent enough I guess. For now the goal is to break even, If I can achieve that it will be win already.
- patrickdavey 4y agoHow do you end up in a situation where your dad, knowing nothing about coffee plantations, ends up buying one and then leaving it to you?
- tsingy 4y agoMy dad likes to try random stuff out of nowhere, has been living like that for ever. It's no surprise to me anymore. But sometimes he realises he does not have enough time to take care off them, the projects is abandoned or given to any of his children.
- BatteryMountain 4y agoMy father was the same. Bought a 1000 hectare farm and he was NOT a farmer. Hard lessons learned, I learned some of it as a kid. The most important one for me was, don't try to farm if your father/grandfather wasn't a farmer or lived that life. Farming requires a transfer of knowledge/wisdom unless ultra commercialized and brute-forced with cash.
- reducesuffering 4y ago> My dad likes to try random stuff out of nowhere You are literally doing the same thing by not completely letting a farm manager take over, or selling it...
- JulianRaphael 4y agoSecond the book recommendation below and can highlight one thing about having spent time on plantations myself: do NOT cut the trees. There will be folks who will tell you that by cutting the trees you will get more sunlight and hence more coffee production. I've seen first hand how hundreds of farmers (mainly in India) cut all the trees on their coffee plantation and a few years later lost most of their land due to water issues and landslides. Depending on where in the world you are, you also want to understand what companion plants (could be macadamia nut trees, banana plants, etc.) are best suited for your coffee plants. I would not try to compete with low-quality bean production. Not sure how much land you have but you most likely don't have the resources to compete at scale. There is, however, a massive specialty coffee market and people are willing to pay good money for good coffee. So besides my recommendations above, try to find some specialty coffee producers in your region and learn from them.
- BatteryMountain 4y agoFarming is a hard and unforgiving activity. Most guys who have a dream to become farmers fail miserably since it requires a ton of grit, know-how, problem-solving and luck. With the help of science (measuring soil, pests, weather and so on) and capital input to buy tools (hand tools, sprays/pesticides (if really needed), farmhands, vehicles, watering systems, monitoring systems and so on), you might succeed. If you are willing to be honest with yourself, you might find that being a farmer is not for you and it might be better to sell. You can also run it purely as a business, aka being a kind of farm manager and not be too close to the ground but employ good people that knows the plants/cultivars and the local environment (weather, soil, pests), listen to your people, treat them well, treat your new neighbours extremely well, as they will assist with a ton of knowledge and sometime physical help. Most importantly, honour the land & the plants; take good care of them and your environment and everything might fall into place a bit easier. This is tough thing to be given/gifted, to be honest. Please prepare for the worst, emotionally and physically. It might also be the most rewarding and freeing thing you can do with your life and/or become. Do not discount alternative income streams: if there are more land available, plant some other low maintenance crops or small stocks like chickens and so on for cash flow. If there is a river/stream, forest, small mountains etc, it can be worthwhile to build a handful of cabins or a camping terrain (but small, you want to stay niche, have good ablution blocks, skip electricity, just supply clean water) and so on. Multiple income streams can do wonders for farms. All depends how much money you have upfront to invest into the property. Luckily, you already have the 8K trees. Good luck mate, hope that the journey ahead works out!
- genocidicbunny 4y agoAnecdotally, I spent the last two years trying to grow various stuff in planters on my balcony. I invested quite a bit of time and effort into it, including good soil, fertilizers, monitoring..etc. I kinda figured that while I might not get amazing yields, I have done as much as I could to at least get decent yields. Reality had a lot to say to the contrary. Between the various pests, weather and nutrient problems, I ended up with relatively unproductive gardens both years (Except the peppers, for some reason those ended up being both very productive and very spicy.) All of this is to say that your comments on farming are pretty spot on. Growing stuff is hard. Growing stuff so that you make some profit to sustain yourself is even harder.
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- madaxe_again 4y agoDepends on where it is, and what your ambitions are, but you can potentially make an awful lot more from agritourism (think vineyard hotels) than you can from agriculture directly, which is a brutal business in general.
- tsingy 4y agoIt's in Madagascar, will take a look into that, thanks. Any links to start with?
- roflyear 4y agoMadagascar is not known for its specialty coffee. Might not be a deal killer but the country produces mostly coffee for use by large corps.
- tsingy 4y agoIt's not known because no one produces enough of it and markets it well. The land and climate are perfect, we have Bourbon and Arabica Elita that is high in demand but production does not follow.
- markdown 4y agoThis happened to me. I couldn't compete with the coffee berry borer and ended up chainsawing them down one by one. Coffee is surprisingly hard wood. I planted noni instead, but that turned out to be a fad, and those were removed next. Then I grew taro, and all was well.
- orangepurple 4y agoIs wood from coffee trees worth anything? Such as for building furniture.
- markdown 4y agoI don't believe so. There isn't enough wood in them. Some cultivars can grow to be small trees, but are usually pruned and kept as little bushes.
- humps 4y agoDepending on where you are located in the world, find a local artisan coffee roastery and see if you can talk to the owner. It's the fastest way to gain access to face-to-face deep knowledge of the coffee industry because they typically work directly with the farmers. In the process, you may also find someone who is willing to work with you and buy all the beans you produce in 2026 and beyond.
- tsingy 4y agoThere aren't any thanks to a bottom teir poor country. Coffee is sold / exported unroasted here. And if there are, they control the whole production line, from plants to exportation. I could learn from small producer, and learn to scale by myself I guess.
- mch82 4y agoShort-term: hire someone to keep the trees alive. Longer-term: start reaching out to top agricultural programs for advice. Look for lists like this one & write to faculty: https://agronomag.com/best-schools-for-farmers-in-the-us/ https://agronomag.com/best-schools-for-farmers-in-the-us/. You’ll probably be able to find people with expertise in coffee. I bet there are also conferences or industry associations that will help with networking. There are probably also government programs in your country. What happens to the coffee today? Is 8000 trees a lot (sounds like it to me)?
- tsingy 4y agoHiring to keep trees alive for the next 3 years (done). The second part is where I needed help. Thanks for the link. Yes that's a lot, around 2.5 tons of roasted beans per year apparently.
- bigmusicshoe 4y agoi am sure people have already reached out to you, but my wife and i managed a large plantation, permaculture (more work, better for the environment ((sustainable)))- in Nicaragua (Masaya area). We are looking to relocate from Berlin, and this could be an idea. send me a message to bigmusicshoe@gmail.com
- tsingy 4y agoPermaculture is the goal, but I don't know enough and hiring someone that know enough is also tough. I'm in Madagascar, a bottom tier poor country, has a lot of potential though. Mail sent.
- SanjayMehta 4y agoA friend of mine had a similar situation. They retained a few acres around their ancestral home and run a homestay during tourist season. The bulk of the land was leased out to a large coffee company on a multiyear lease.
- O__________O 4y agoIf it was me, I would focus on the business side, not the farming side. Farming is extremely labor intensive and largely a commodity business. Marketing and branding are largely where profits are made in the beverage business. As an example of a recent successful high grow beverage company, take a look at Liquid Death, which turned a low budget AD into a billion dollar company within years: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iXjhNZlqexs https://youtube.com/watch?v=iXjhNZlqexs
- tsingy 4y agoThat's my plan too, I'm not a farmer. But it still requires me to know how things work on a high level. Thanks for the link.
- O__________O 4y agoNo, in my opinion you do not need to understand farming. Liquid Death bought water wholesale from a bottling company. At 8000 trees, that’s a business, but barely, and would not support a real growing coffee business. Running building and running business is all about focusing on the right thing at the right time. Realize there’s sentimental value to fact trees were planted by your family, but in the end, it’s critical you’re clear about your goals and situation.
- noduerme 4y agoMy grandfather took a trip west in 1945 after the war, leaving his wife and kids in Baltimore. He somehow ended up in what's now Rancho Mirage, talking to someone who was selling land. He'd saved up about $10k and sank all of it into a 10-acre grapefruit and date farm, basically a patch of desert with some palm and citrus trees and well water. Took my grandma and dad and aunt out there and they lived in an airstream trailer on the land. Sold the fruit to Dole mostly for juice. Barely made ends meet. When he died in the 90s, the patch sold for over $1m to a hotel conglomerate. So if nothing else... my family has a mantra: Never sell real estate. For your specific situation, my grandfather had a different saying: "Find yourself a teacher". He claimed this philosophy came from the Talmud, but I can't say. In any event, my grandfather had already gone from being a door-to-door cloth salesman to a cutter to a tailor, and he always found an expert teacher to attach himself to and learn from, and this usually meant someone humbly but seriously devoted to the work at hand. In the case of the ranch, it was a Cahuilla Indian man who had lived nearby, and who taught him how to take care of the trees. My grandfather employed him as a full-time caretaker and kept up his house on the land for the rest of his life. My advice with anything where you don't have the knowledge to do it yourself would be to find yourself a teacher by searching in the humblest of places for someone with that knowledge, and make them your mentor.
- tsingy 4y agoI happily hire anyone that is that knowledgeable, but where I live that is rare, and they are probably running their own stuff. I wholly agree with you though, I won't venture into this alone or without a general view of how things work.
- jimnotgym 4y ago> So if nothing else... my family has a mantra: Never sell real estate "Warren Buffett: $10,000 invested in an index fund when I bought my first stock in 1942 would be worth $51 million today" Looks like he could have done 51 times better for no work https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/07/warren-buffett-10000-invested-in-an-index-fund-when-i-bought-my-first-stock-in-1942-would-be-worth-51-million-today.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/07/warren-buffett-10000-investe...
- r_hoods_ghost 4y agoAs you're in Madagascar you might want to get in touch with CRS[1] who have a training program for coffee growers. A relative worked with them on another project in Tana a few years ago and found them good to work with. [1] https://coffeelands.crs.org/2021/04/agroforestry-and-coffee-in-madagascar/ https://coffeelands.crs.org/2021/04/agroforestry-and-coffee-...
- tsingy 4y agoYes I am, nice guess. Thanks a lot, will take a look into it.
- jimnotgym 4y agoOne important question, Do you want to do it? If not then sell or rent it to someone who does. Do what you want
- tsingy 4y agoYes I want to do it but not as a farmer, I will hire a farmer. I'm more business inclined and will handle it from a higher level.
- quickthrower2 4y agoAmazing. No idea. If it were me I would hire someone experienced in both the growing, finance and marketing aspects of this. Then it becomes a question of how to pick someone good. You can be their apprentice. It might be simpler to sell it to someone else though!
- tsingy 4y agoMy adventurous mind prevents me to sell. I'm might fail but I will definitely try to make something out of it.
- 11235813213455 4y agoI'd diversify the plantation with many fruit trees, you get some seasonal workers (who collect and sell at market). As a fruitarian, I'd love to be in your position
- tsingy 4y agoI thought about and I'm already looking for trees / fruits that grow well with coffee. I too think it's a great opportunity, but the lack of knowledge about the subject scares me.
- pvaldes 4y agoSome footnotes: The plant is self pollinating, saving time All in the plant is poisonous except beans, therefore less animal pests. I assume that it should be better to avoid skin exposure when you prune or manage the fruit. If you find worms in the berries, check: Coffee Berry borer, biological control with wasps preferred over chemicals at long term If you find orange patches in the underside of the leaves check: Coffee Leaf Rust, big enemy of arabica, affecting the flavor of your crop. This is the reason why UK drinks tea instead coffee. Will be a problem near the coast at lower areas. Colder places in mountainous terrain are more difficult for the fungus growth and plants in mountain areas over 1300m can deal with it, or grow clean over 1700m. Don't bring material from contaminated farms Soil must be rich and a little acidic; moist but well drained. Both are required. Well drained is a must. Fungi invading roots will be one of our main problems and will appear in a valley or if they are planted carelessly. They want to be under a forest canopy (required to keep moisture), but probably not in dense shadow. Light indirect but bright. You will want to keep part of the current trees
- tsingy 4y agoDamn, thanks a lot for all this info.
- beAbU 4y agoMost of my family are farmers. It's crazy hard work, requiring a massive amount of effort and know-how. Most of my farming relatives are better educated than me from a pure academic perspective. Making a success of a commercial farm requires deep knowledge of the crop, the land, the weather and the local pests. Gone are the days of doing things the way your forefathers did things. Moreso if you actually want to be competitive in the market that you are producing for. Please dont make the romantic mistake of thinking you will become this farmer and it's all sunshine and success. One bad crop (which could be because of no fault of your own) can mean financial ruin. My advice: rub shoulders with the locals in the area. Maybe theres a farmer interested in renting your land and trees. Alternatively, appoint an expert to manage and run the farm for you. Theres a certain romanticism associated whith owning land you inherited. But you have to be honest with yourself and look at the numbers. If it's not your expertise and the financials don't make sense you'll probably be better off selling the land. My dad and I had exactly this conversation recently. He has some land that he got from his father, that he's renting out to the farming relatives. My dad's at the age now where he needs to plan for what happens to his estate. We looked at the numbers and relaized me and my brother will be better off selling and taking the money. In my country you are liable to pay hefty taxes on inheritance. Neither of us have the reserves to pay those taxes on a piece of land we have no idea how to run or manage. You inherit an asset that you are forced to liquidate in order to afford the inheritance taxes on that asset.
- tsingy 4y agoI will hire people for sure. I can manage numbers and people, not a farm. Seems like France laws about inheritance.
- voisin 4y ago> You inherit an asset that you are forced to liquidate in order to afford the inheritance taxes on that asset. It is worth speaking with an estate lawyer or accountant. There are strategies to avoid this that differ based on country, but insurance usually plays a role. It is, in my opinion, unfair that someone would be forced by taxes to sell the birthright that their parent spent a lifetime working for. Good luck.
- anenefan 4y agoWelcome to farming, it's a continuous learning curve and like everything, be mindful of those who sell snake oil. The next few years should see coffee prices increase due to the losses this year in South America due to the prolonged / unexpected frosts. All I could find for a starting point. This might not be totally applicable to your region, but I'd suggest you seek out coffee growers association in your area for further advice. Best of luck. https://agrifutures.com.au/wp-content/uploads/publications/14-029.pdf https://agrifutures.com.au/wp-content/uploads/publications/1... https://www.agrifarming.in/coffee-growing-information-beginners https://www.agrifarming.in/coffee-growing-information-beginn...
- tsingy 4y ago> be mindful of those who sell snake oil. That is why I want to learn, scammers are everywhere. Thanks for the links.
- asdfghjkjhg 4y agoI played hundreds of hours of farm simulator. just spend 2mi on machinery and you should be good to go.
- isthisthingon99 4y agoBest thing is to profit share with a farmer. When you make money they make money.
- psytrx 4y agoHeck, 8k trees is a lot. Definitely find a professional. Growing coffee is exceptionally difficult. Do you have an idea which crops have been planted? Is the plantation in a favorable location (altitude, weather)? Depending on both, you should become clear about whether you want to produce commodity coffee or specialty coffee. The latter is more difficult to produce, but also more profitable. If you're going the specialty route, it may even be fruitful (hah!) to get in contact with content creators. They usually have useful contacts in the industry, and they might be willing to connect you. In any case, try to get in touch with European roasters, as they usually value traceability and prefer to roast single origin coffees. Best of luck! And enjoy the journey. Oh, and if you had your first batch, please drop me a message. I know a few local roasters (Germany) that may be interested in new sources. :-)
- tsingy 4y agoAlready looking into hiring. 60% Robusta 40% Arabica. Really good location, altitude and weather for robusta, and slightly less for arabica. I'm leaning towards environmental friendly speciality coffee. I'll take you up on that offer then.
- amelius 4y agoMake sure it is used in full capacity! If you don't, even more forests will certainly be cut down to satisfy growing coffee demand in e.g. Asia.
- dusted 4y agodisclaimer: no farming experience If I got that, I'd look into either sell it flat-out, or try and run it as a company.. disclaimer 2: only had one company, was not terribly profitable I'd try to hire someone in to run it for me
- ingenieros 4y agoIs the plantation located somewhere with nice views? If so you might be better off turning it into a bed and breakfast and offering guided/tasting tours. Many local coffee farmers here in Colombia have opted for this option as simply "selling beans" is no longer profitable for them. Best of luck
- tsingy 4y agoDoes rainforest with lemurs count as nice view? Anyway, good idea, I will look into it.
- ingenieros 4y agoMost definitely! I would totally book a night or two to see that.
- mustyoshi 4y agoLook into selling the coffee cherry husks after debeaning them.
- hestefisk 4y agoI’d sell it!
- monkeydust 4y agoHacker News Coffee Blend. Got a ring to it. Sure a few of us in here will buy a bag or 10 if you manage to get this going. Hire someone, setup a blog so we can follow pls and good luck!
- tsingy 4y agoThis is "diamond" idea, I will do and will credit you for it.
- monkeydust 4y agoNice. Look forward to getting my first batch :)
- pseudostem 4y agoFarming experience since 2014-15. My advice would be to immediately contact a coffee contract farming company in your area. Work out the minutest details in terms of work and costs, something similar to WBS in project management. Next sign a 3-5 year contract with the contract farming company (WBS was to make sure you're not getting a raw deal). Get them to provide you technical help. The way this works is, they recommend and you execute. All the best!
- tsingy 4y ago> My advice would be to immediately contact a coffee contract farming company in your area There aren't any thanks to a bottom tier poor country.
- anonymoose55555 4y agoI inherited a farm as well as a listed manor attached to it. I'm in the process of selling the manor and much of the fields after 10+ years of looking for a buyer. Here's my .02: 1. You should not feel obliged to continue your father's work. You're a different person and I'm sure your father would prefer you to be happy above the farm staying in the family. If you think selling the land is a better option, do it. If you built your own career, don't sacrifice it for the farm. 2. Consider leasing it. I'm in the EU so I get subsidies (even if there's nothing there but grass), plus a lease from people who want to actually grow something there.
- tsingy 4y ago1. Well, agriculture always had my interest. As an example, people in my country eat the most rice per inhabitants in the world, yet we still import rice. We have land and everything to plant rice, just not enough tools or knowledge to scale it. So I want to try, this is an opportunity I can't miss to start with. 2. I might if I find people who would pay for it with the promise of keeping thing environmentally friendly.
- anonymoose55555 4y agoPerhaps you could require an organic farmic certificate or something, rather than a promise. At a vary least such certificate should in theory prohibit from using anything harmful to the environment. I got one, but mainly for higher subsidies.
- shaggie76 4y agoI noticed your trees are 60% Robusta and wanted to address the suggestions about targeting boutique coffee houses and higher-end customers: I doubt very much Robusta will be sought after. My understanding is that market for Robusta may be only for instant coffee production or to adulterate Arabica to make cheaper. I've only rarely seen Robusta sold green and there's good reason for that: it's distinctly unpleasant by itself.
- denton-scratch 4y agoRobusta seems to be favoured for making espresso. I think robusta is not as "unpleasant" as it used to be, say 20 years ago.
- tsingy 4y agoThis is the first thing I will do if I can manage things at an ok level. I'll switch to produce speciality coffee (Bourbon and Arabica Elita), and focus on that. Still if robusta can sold I will still take care of it.
- dranudin 4y agoI prefer my espresso if it is at least in part robusta. I think most espresso drinkers feel that way, so there should be at least some demand for it.
- denton-scratch 4y agoYou've had advice to hire a farm manager; and research roasting. Nobody so far has mentioned the processing. Roasting is for roasteries; that's not really the farmer's business. But in most coffee-growing areas, the farmers organize into collectives, with shared processing facilities. A lot of the distinctive characters of coffees are the result of the way the cherries are processed. Since the collective's output is all mixed together, it's not single-estate; I assume that sales are handled by the collective, not by individual farmers. Maybe there isn't a processing collective in your area; perhaps you could launch a processing facility, and encourage your neighbours to have a go.
- tsingy 4y agoInterestingly, there isn't one in my area. Most of the coffee is exported unroasted here, and the local consumers roast theirs themselves.
- denton-scratch 4y agoBy "processing", I specifically meant to exclude roasting. As far as I'm aware, coffee beans are generally roasted in the country where they're consumed. Roasted beans don't stay fresh as long as green beans. I meant the processing that converts cherries into dry green beans. That processing always occurs near the place it was grown; cherries don't keep. The pulp has to be removed. That can be entirely mechanical, or it can be by fermenting. There are different ways of doing the fermenting. Then someone has to pick over the beans, to sort them for quality. This is just what I've read; I'm no expert, I'm just an interested consumer. And @tsingy, I imagine you've read a lot more than I have; but you seem to have misunderstood my comment.
- tsingy 4y agoMy bad, yes I misunderstood. There are but still in small scale and artisanal. And even the people we hired now can do it, but we have time until the first harvest though (3 to 4 years).
- timst4 4y agoI used to work on a coffee plantation of about 1000 trees in Kona. The owners ran a very lean operation. Coffee doesn’t require much maintenance outside of picking season. They had one farm manager and a handful of WWOOFers (work trade volunteers) to help with keep up with farm work and mowing. During picking season they would hire pickers from Ecuador and the Philippines to come pick the cherries. There was a co-op that weighed and processed the raw cherries on the island. The co-op also handled warehousing. They would sell raw beans to a bigger fish for roasting and shipping. Three employees total and they did quite well. Kona is out of the ordinary though. It is well regarded and fetches a decent price wholesale.
- roflyear 4y agoPrice is a huge thing. With that many trees they must have been doing only 2klbs of coffee a year on the high end (green). I don't see how they could have been doing "quite well" as green Kona beans sell for like $40-60/lb (a lot considering most green coffee is like $8 or so a pound).
- givinguflac 4y agoRead “Teaming with Microbes” and other books in the series.
- appabings 4y agoRead The Coffee Exporter's Guide: Third Edition https://www.un-ilibrary.org/content/books/9789213614860 https://www.un-ilibrary.org/content/books/9789213614860 Its free and will give you a good overview of the industry. If you want to get into farming get Wintgen's Coffee - Growing, Processing, Sustainable Production: A Guidebook for Growers, Processors, Traders and Researchers, 2nd, Revised Edition https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Coffee+Growing%2C+Processing%2C+Sustainable+Production%3A+A+Guidebook+for+Growers%2C+Processors%2C+Traders+and+Researchers%2C+2nd%2C+Revised+Edition-p-9783527332533 https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Coffee+Growing%2C+Processing%2C+... (You will get a way cheaper from other sources). Depending on the country you have different options. You can think about leasing it to other farmers or a cooperative. Talk to a local Specialty Coffee Roastery for a different perspective. If you are interested in more information I could make a follow up post
- tsingy 4y agoHey, thanks a lot. Just dump any information you can, I know nothing about this so any bit of info is good. Leasing is not really an option because finding someone who will lease would be hard, we don't do that here.
- Godel_unicode 4y agoOmwani coffee in the UK has recently released a Madagascar origin specialty coffee, and they claim to be trying to work with local producers, it might be worth reaching out to them. You might also want to reach out to other boutique coffee producers, many of them have farmer education programs (counter culture and square mile are the first two that come to mind). Meta-advice, find people who actually understand the business and get their opinions. This forum is great for CS startups, but it’s full of people who think their success in one field means they are experts in everything they’ve read an article about. Be skeptical.
- germinalphrase 4y agoMight be worth reaching out to a company like Equal Exchange. They may be able to connect you with educational resources. https://shop.equalexchange.coop/ https://shop.equalexchange.coop/
- tsingy 4y agoWill take a look into it, thanks for the link.
- jccooper 4y agoI don't know anything about your land or crop, but farming tends to be a regional activity so you probably have neighbors in the same business who know at least how the job is usually done. You need knowledge from them. How that shapes up, I dunno. Maybe you want to hire one of them to run your operations; maybe you want to lease it and watch what they do; maybe you want to work for them for a year or two to learn; maybe they'll just tell you what to do each month if you just stop by and chat. I stand to inherit a farm (of a very different sort: dry plains, mostly growing wheat) and I plan to do the same thing my father does now: lease it to a local.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jmclnx 4y agoWell I would find someone with knowledge, maybe on the old side, and hire them, and if good pay them well. They can then teach you.
- tsingy 4y agoPlanned, but it's looking to be hard.
- zzzeek 4y agoFamiliarize with Fair Trade practices (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade_coffee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade_coffee), get in contact with other bean growers, like Equal Exchange as someone else mentioned. Consider operating as a co-op where the workers are actually owners too. I get the sense this industry is pretty fraught with worker abuse problems regardless but at least try to be on the right side of things.
- tsingy 4y agoAdded to my to do list.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 4y agoSerious suggestion: sharecrop it with a neighbor.
- J253 4y agoI’m a home roaster and buy my green beans from a website called www.sweetmarias.com. Everything about this company is awesome but there’s guy there named Tom who knows probably as much as anyone could know about the entire coffee process from growing to wholesaling to roasting. He always travels to farms to meets with growers before purchasing. I guarantee if you get a hold of their customer service and explain your situation, you’ll be able to get a hold of someone there who can give you answers to most of your coffee-related questions.
- tsingy 4y agoThanks a lot, I will reach out to them.
- muzani 4y agoThis is similar to the plot of the game Hundred Days. It's wine, instead of coffee, but I guess you can pull some inspiration from that.
- tsingy 4y agoI'll check that out, thanks.
- kylehotchkiss 4y agoI was really worried this post was going to be about selling it so I came by to say don’t! I don’t have any answers about how to make coffee but two thoughts: * start a brr.fyi blog about it, we love that here * if Jason Mraz can do it, so can you!
- tsingy 4y agoWill do as soon some change happen I promise. Well Jason Mraz has access to capital I don't, money makes doing business easier. Thanks for the nice words.
- chrisbrandow 4y agoI actually know a family with a small coffee plantation. I can put you in touch if you’re interested. Let me know and we can figure out a way to contact each other securely.
- tsingy 4y agoBig YES, please if it's not a bother. Thanks a lot, e-mail is in bio.
- paulkrush 4y agoThis is such an odd post for HN and it got real attention. What gives?
- carapace 4y agoYou might look into "Syntropic" agriculture and "Permaculture". The basic idea is to mimic natural ecosystems with agriculturally productive plants and animals. https://agendagotsch.com/en/what-is-syntropic-farming/ https://agendagotsch.com/en/what-is-syntropic-farming/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture
- tsingy 4y agoWill looks into those, thanks a lot. As I want to be environmentally friendly these a really interesting.
- boplicity 4y agoLease it to someone who knows what they're doing, is able to make a living as a farmer, and wants to take care of the land, as opposed to trash it. You're in a much better position to be a good landlord than you are to be a good farmer.
- tsingy 4y agoWould be easier for me to learn how to be a farmer than finding someone to lease it. People are poor here and those that can pay will certainly already have their business running somewhere, need to be convinced to take it.
- boplicity 4y agoIsn't that the situation you want -- someone who already is successfully farming in the area, and is ready/able to expand?
- toomuchtodo 4y agoI cannot provide advice but I would like to follow along in your journey to learn as you learn. Consider a blog or vlog, I am happy to contribute financially. Best wishes.
- tsingy 4y agoYes I will and will post here again when it's ready and whenever changes happen. Thanks a lot for the advice.
- hardwaregeek 4y agoWhere is it located? Is it a region that has experience growing coffee? Because perhaps you can link up with a coffee distributor or a fellow farmer and get their advice. Also to be clear unless the coffee is in a warm high grown area, or on an island, it may not be worth a lot.
- tsingy 4y agoIt's on the east coast of Madagascar. Yes, but mainly bulk exportation of Robusta for instant coffee. I want to shift production of speciality coffee as there is higher margin there, mainly Bourbon and Arabica Elita.
- stateofinquiry 4y agoI am a long-time reader, but compelled to create account for a little (relevant) self promotion. Since you are interested in high value coffee, you might find our app, BestBeans, helpful: https://smartyields.com/best-beans/ https://smartyields.com/best-beans/ . Does not replace local knowledge, as mentioned by others, but is helpful for record-keeping, monitoring, and decision support. We are still adding features, stay tuned.
- Jun8 4y agoOk, this may be a dumb answer but bear with me, I’ll reiterate an idea that I often proposed to a colleague who has a heirloom land and house in Wisconsin: turn it into a adult farming fantasy retreat! Two indisputable facts: (1) Most city dwellers like myself dream about a simpler life, working in a farm with their hands, raising up at 5am, harvesting crops, etc. (2) As most people commented farming is back braking work so (1) is just a fantasy for 99.9% of people who think about this. Why not let people live the farming life, e.g. for 5 days, living on a farm and doing the actual work as well as paying for the experience. I would easily pay $200 a night to live on a coffee plantation during harvesting time to collect and process beans or help operate a combine or milk the cows, etc (am so ignorant about farm life it’s hard to give legitimate examples :-) I don’t know if this idea already exists in practice. The colleague I propose it with excitement always gave me a bemused but incredulous look!
- zach_garwood 4y agoI think this is a fun idea, but it overlooks the fact that most farming tasks take skill. I think the owner would most likely end up with a trashed farm at the end of the season.
- Jun8 4y agoAbsolutely true. I was thinking more along the lines of having people do manual labor that requires minimal training.
- polotics 4y agoIt doesn't work in practice, because a day of bad work by some non-trained city dweller will most likely do a lot more than 200$ of loss of income, if not straight damage. And then there are the accidents: "was your staff qualified to operate the machine that ate their hand?" ... Best of luck finding insurance for this projecz...
- RosanaAnaDana 4y agoThis is reactionary logic without perspective. Plenty of people currently pay fir lifestyle vacations that have a bit of danger.
- ricberw 4y agoOne word: SimFarm If you try, you’ll probably end up with locust swarms.
- madman2890 4y agoWhere is the farm at? I own one in Manizales, Colombia. We have around 25,000 trees.
- pkphilip 4y agoWhereabouts is this? I work with farmers and I may be able to put you onto someone who can help
- pvaldes 4y agoProfessional consulting and crop insurance were created for that. We don't have a minimum context. area?, rain?, acid soil?, market location?, variety? (early/season/late?), potential load of fruit? Without data, we can't suggest you anything of value Try the advice of an --independent-- professional consulting. Hear local sellers also but not only locals. Specially if they are local sellers also (Will try to sell you as many useless products as possible). Remember this: Chemicals are not a magic wand. Is the number one mistake of a newbie. Sometimes are useful, but incorrectly used can do more harm than good. If your plants get ill, first discover the real problem. Your plants are alive beings in the Family Rubiaceae, try to understand their ecological needs and fix those first. If you are newbie I would suggest to diversify your crops to reduce the possibility of failure. Some years are bad, other good. Do your location allows avocados? zapotes? icecream beans? plant a couple of trees somewhere to exercise your skills where they don't disturb the coffee plants or where they help them (If I remember correctly coffee plants need some light shadow to grow well, check it). Just an example, not need to be followed literally but, in resume, don't put all your eggs in the same basket.
- manv1 4y agoFarming is about sales and marketing. My FIL bought two farms as a hobby, and he essentially has two choices: selling to middlemen for peanuts or going direct-to-consumer. DTC is problematic for obvious reasons - you have to do last-mile delivery and "how do people buy when they don't know what's available." Middlemen buy low from you so they can sell high from someone else, and have market-making ability. So before you do anything, try to figure out who you're going to sell these crops to.
- pryelluw 4y agoIs selling the coffee the only business model you can execute? How about events hosting? Weddings, parties, trainings, etc.
- tsingy 4y agoMaybe later, for now it's a barebone farm and not much else.
- dehrmann 4y agoFarming is hard, and margins are low. Coffee is also labor-intensive. What I'd do is find a local farmer in the area and lease it to them. You can probably set up something where they pay you something like 25% of the crop for rent.
- kaapipo 4y agoGet rid of it and invest the money
- Vivtek 4y agoCoffee is a weird crop. 8000 trees is probably about 8 or 10 acres, and you're not going to be able to work that yourself. Where you at? Hawaii?
- tsingy 4y agoIn Madagascar, east cost.
- Vivtek 4y agoAgh, there I go all America-centric! One piece of advice I'll give you (I have a coffee farm in Puerto Rico) - you can make a lot more selling as an estate brand, i.e. retailing it yourself. From Madagascar, though, I have no idea how you'd do that internationally. But you have a couple of years to figure it out. Arabica, dried properly and sorted well, should bring you at least $20 a pound retail, which is way more than you can approach wholesale. Even after labor, you can live on 8000 trees a year.
- humanistbot 4y agoSell it.
- cristiioan 4y agoI don't think asking here is the best idea
- gk1 4y agoI’m constantly surprised by the kinds of people found on HN. If you told me yesterday there’s an active HN reader who owns a 25,000-tree coffee farm in Colombia… and yet here we are.
- anonu 4y agoLots of people saying "sell it" vs "keep it". But OP was only looking for advice on farming. Not financial advice. My guess is there are coffee farms nearby. If so, lean on a local experts advice.
- traceroute66 4y agoLet's be realistic here, your only option is to sell it. Recap the facts: - You've confirmed you have no experience ("I have no experience in this at all") - You've confirmed your dad had no experience ("nor did he") ... so how do you know it's "good" land, or you dad did a good job until now ? Are you sure there are no "skeletons in the cupboard" ? - You haven't got long ("around 2026"), we're entering 2023 now, 3 years will fly by. You have no experience, you have no coffee bean buyers lined up (in what is a very competitive market). - Remember you are also taking on MORE financial risk by continuing because you will doubtless be required to incur CAPEX and OPEX expenses. So not only could it become a mental headache for you, but it could easily become a financial blackhole too. You could lease it out, but do you HONESTLY (a) want the headache of managing tenants, legal contracts, collecting rent and all that jazz (b) have enough experience to make sure you are not getting screwed and your tenants treating the land well ?
- kevmo314 4y agoNo need to be so discouraging. Is it likely to be a lucrative business? Probably not. Is it likely to be even profitable? Probably not. But if OP wants to learn, why suggest their only option is to sell it? We don't tell our kids to give up programming because they have no idea how much pain dealing with javascript is.
- traceroute66 4y ago> No need to be so discouraging I'm not being discouraging, I am being realistic. I am looking at the situation from someone who has no ties to the situation. Taking the completely objective view with no bias. I am looking at the situation who has been involved in small businesses, I know how tough running a small business is .... running a small farming business with zero experience will be sheer hell, frankly. If they had a couple of decades to learn, that might be one thing... but they have stated they have three years (2023 – 2026). The hard reality is that you are not going to become a farming wizard in three years. You are taking on a lot of stress and a lot of financial risk. 21st century farming is a tough business with tight margins and near-zero tolerance for mistakes.
- raincom 4y agoOne of the problems in the third world is that thugs backed by local politicians can illegally take over your land. Neighbors can start stealing your land meter by meter every year. Even if your relative becomes a guardian of this land, don't expect anything good from such relatives. For instance, people get fake death certificates of the real owner in order to take over others' lands. 8000 tree coffee plantation could be 4 to 18 acres of land. Unless you visit Madagascar every 6 months, unless you have a trusty hand, better sell it. I don't know the prices in Madagascar, you can get at least $200K for it.
- qazwsxedchac 4y ago> One of the problems in the third world is that thugs backed by local politicians can illegally take over your land. That's not even limited to the third world. Source: Personal experience of owning farmland in a first world country, with a mining company operating nearby, while living elsewhere myself. The only mitigation is to get involved in local politics, and to play as dirty as the thugs do. Not something you can do from far away. tl;dr: I'd be biased towards selling, after getting a couple of independent opinions on value.
- tsingy 4y agoThat's not happening here, it's quite peaceful compared to other poor country, we don't have cartels. I live in Madagascar full time, I will probably go back to France some day because my fiancee is French but not in the next 3 years for sure. Now way it's not worth more that $25K, yes you red that right. It hasn't produced anything yet.
- raincom 4y agoSince you live in Madagascar, you can run the planation yourself with some helpers.
- kleer001 4y agoHow much money and time do you have to burn to get it started?
- tsingy 4y agoOverseeing the trees so they can grow does not require much time, I have a lot of time. As for money, it cost me 3000 euros per year to run with 4 people working full time on the farm. Basic tools for maintenance was given to the land.
- altairprime 4y agoContact a direct-to-farm coffee distributor like PT’s Coffee and ask them if they know anyone who can help you evaluate and manage it or sell it to a co-op. At the very least, they will find it interesting that you thought to ask them :)
- Magi604 4y agoThe reasonable answer here, unfortunately, is to sell it, for reasons that others in this thread have pointed it out. The YOLO "hollywood movie"/NYT best seller answer, however, is to drop everything you're doing, go to Madagascar, spend some time trying and failing (with hijinx!) to grow the crop yourself. Your neighbors at first are distant and doubtful, but slowly you gain their respect. 15 years from today, tsingy brand coffee is a household name.
- hinkley 4y agoPlus you meet your soulmate who is living monk-like because they are still devastated from the mother/father of their children passing away suddenly four years ago. Finally their kids tell them it's time to move on and you get married six months later.
- diego 4y agoI mostly agree. The way I would face this decision is like this: 1) Do I enjoy the coffee business? Would I have bought that plantation if the opportunity had arisen? If the answer is no, selling is most likely the right answer. 2) That being said, it's not like the plantation is a hot potato that needs to be sold right away. OP has some time to check it out, learn about the business and decide if this is something worth trying for a few years. How long to try for? What's the opportunity cost? They would decide to invest a limited amount of time (e.g. one year of work) and then reevaluate at the end. I would timebox this decision process too. Perhaps learn all you can in a month and decide if you want to give it a shot? Part of this process should involve getting in touch with people in the industry and seeing if you like interacting with them. In the end, most of your job will be about interacting with the different types of players in your industry.
- tsingy 4y agoI enjoy coffee, the business I don't know, that is why I want to try. I'll try at least until the first harvest is sold or whatever happens. It cost me around 3000 euros a year to run for now. So YOLO
- 4y ago
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y agoIf your spanish is decent, just go to any country in south america and find a farmer/owner. Farms aplenty out of every major metro about 1-2 hours from the metro, in every direction. A quick google will help you find the regions in every country where coffee is grown, or maybe even google maps. They will gladly talk to you for hours and show you the ropes. If they like you they will give you carte blanche to come in to the property unannounced and speak to their employees, anytime. Because in the end, its possible you buy their plants or seeds, and many farmers make money from that too.
- tsingy 4y agoUnfortunately I'm not, I'll try to travel there and attempt this one day though. It's the last continent I haven't visited.
- iJohnDoe 4y agoIf you have the money, hire an expert grower and pay them a salary. Have them manage the plantation and the migrant workers. That’s it. Keep it simple. No partnership. No business deals. A simple employee arrangement. That’s basically step one. However, it will free up your time to find a buyer for the beans when it’s time to harvest them and sell them. Rinse and repeat.
- tsingy 4y agoThere is no expert of that kind here, bottom tier poor country. If they are good at something they are probably working on their own stuff or are already employed.
- Yahivin 4y agoBe sure to give people their favorite gift on their birthday to increase your relationship quickly.
- wellthisisgreat 4y agoHey I think the best bet is to reach out to some people in the gourmet coffee bean space who are trustworthy. Like some coffee-roasters who you've been buying from for years who have dealt with farm-to-table approach. With some vetting you can probably get some worthy deal going. Off the top of my head I can think of a couple of places in New York that I believe are ran by diligent people. I could probably point you to their direction if that's of interest, but I am in no way affiliated nor interested in getting into that kind of business, just would love to see such a resource not go to waste.
- tsingy 4y agoPlease, it would be really helpful.
- chordalkeyboard 4y agoyou need a farm manager with experience managing operations of this size, in this region, with this crop. good luck finding one who is trustworthy. aforesaid manager is also a person who would be essential if and when you choose to sell this farm.
- jjwtieke 4y agoCan I come stay and help out? I also know nothing about coffee other than it’s delicious. Maybe you could turn it into a bit of a learning experience and document your journey as part of marketing. I’m a writer and can do video production and socials so could help with that.
- tsingy 4y agoIt's in Madagascar, send me an e-mail (it's on my profile page) if that's a destination that still got your interest.
- florakel 4y agoYou could simply do nothing with it and let nature take back the land. Natural restoration.
- hinkley 4y agoI know someone a few years ago was trying to start a trade in coffee leaves, to help better annualize income from coffee plantations. Apparently you can use them like tea leaves. Haven't heard much about that since. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
- K0balt 4y agoI also own (and live on) a small coffee plantation, and I know a little about it. Feel free to dm me for any questions. I’d be up for a call to chat a bit, maybe I can answer some questions? Glad to share what I have learned. Basically, you will either sell to the local processors or you will process it yourself. We are gearing up to process ourselves. We have about 10k trees, and we do all organic and no non natural fertilizers or pesticides. This year we are producing about 500 lbs of coffee after roasting. I think we can get to maybe 1000 lbs ( more with chemical fertilizers). We will be making a boutique coffee with a story and a negative carbon footprint (we don’t do mechanized agriculture, and have solar charged electric vehicles for transport to the nearby, downhill port. and will be shipping on sail-only vessels to the USA)
- tsingy 4y agoYou're doing exactly what I was debating to do. I'll send you and e-mail. Thanks a lot.
- zemvpferreira 4y agoSell it. It's going to be a massive drag on your life until you're up to speed (easily a decade) and won't make enough money to be worth it. If there isn't a massive attachment to the land, that's what I would do. Bona fides: I manage a 7th generation family cork farm that I will one day inherit and promptly sell.
- nanomonkey 4y agoTalk to the folks at Sweet Maria's (https://www.sweetmarias.com/ https://www.sweetmarias.com/) in Oakland, CA if possible. They work with coffee farmers all over the world. I'm sure they can find someone in the immediate area that can help.
- tsingy 4y agoI will contact them, thanks a lot.
- major505 4y agoI dont know where you live, but goverments like Brazil and UK, normally have courses and conselours to help new farmers settle in. If you leave in the us is problably something in the state level. Try call the local city hall.
- K0balt 4y agoLol I replied and forgot you can’t DM on HN. If you want to reach out (see my other comment) drop me a line here and we can figure out a way to get in direct contact.
- tsingy 4y agoReplied.
- K0balt 4y agoOk, I guess the best way is for you to email me. I have created a throwaway email here so I don’t dox myself too bad lol coffeefarm@sightglass.foundation Drop me a line there with your contact info. I am available on FaceTime, telegram, WhatsApp, and signal or on email of course.
- xanderstoute 4y agoIf you do wish to take on this project and investment, I would highly recommend building a relationship with an importer/exporter. They can support you and help build the program, provide feedback, etc. I don't personally know of any in relation to Madagascar, but I would reach out to Coffee Quest, Royal, Caravela, Red Fox, Long Miles, or CCS. They all work in specific regions and might be able to steer you in the right direction. As for the production process, it is very labor intensive. You'll most likely want to grow other plants for the sake of building an ecosystem and help diversify your farm crops. The other fruit trees can help provide shade to your coffee trees as well as offer other benefits. It'd also be good to know what the variety and cultivar of plant you have and have a soil test done in multiple areas of your farm. It'd be most profitable to grow specialty coffee and the price is set based on quality. The higher the cup score, the higher the price (in most cases). Good luck!
- simne 4y agoHack beans? :) Well, very original post for HN. Even considering, I myself was deeply involved in beekeeping. I even now eventually consider to become beekeeper ;) What I think, seriously, I started beekeeping from two hives (one initially was empty). Unfortunately, this was initiative of my grandfather, but other relatives was not interested in this, so after his death they just sold all tools and forgot about it. And I was not successful enough, to save anything. So, primary question, You should have strong enough income, to pay this business payments, and still have normal life and make adequate savings. If You have bold answer on overall finance question, could proceed next questions (but will return there). Next, as I read from Your answers, this planned to give wholesale amount of beans, this is not small business. This mean, You need not only knowledge about gathering trees and keeping them, but also, warehouse management, marketing, and selling beans on agricultural stock exchange, and medium size business management. So, that is list, of what to learn: - gathering trees and keeping them - warehouse management - marketing - agricultural stock exchange - medium size business management And the last advice, from my own business management experience - to maximize probability of success, You should start all these activities immediately, don't wait until Your own beans will grow. I mean, start just tomorrow, buy beans directly from other bean producer (buy on stock exchange is not so good for learning) and process them and sell.
- simne 4y agoWhat I must admit, typical agriculture business is very boring. To make it less boring, could try to implement modern IoT technologies, use drones, use satellite images, use robots. When I thinking about beekeeping, I think not about "classic" analog agriculture, but add as much electronics and computing as possible, so ideally it will be human-free business, only I, my bees and robots ;) I think, if You will do such human-free coffee business, You could even use it as base for really big startup.
- tsingy 4y agoIt's cheap to run, labor is also cheap. Funny you talk about beekeeping, we also have hives for an experiment on polinazation. We will see the result next spring, I hope it will be positive so we can add more. I started 2 months ago, no worries. I just felt that maybe asking here was a good idea. Thanks for the tips.