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Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers
- more_corn 4y agoBut not to the customers themselves. God forbid the mistreated party ever see anything from the fines.
- tyingq 4y agoThough perhaps this makes a civil suit more likely to succeed?
- cornstalks 4y ago> The agreement with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau includes more than $2 billion in “redress to consumers,” [...] Looks like funds have been allocated specifically for that. Whether $2 billion is enough or not, I don't know.
- moloch-hai 4y agoSo, still no indictments of executives responsible?
- theandrewbailey 4y agoI don't understand why anyone still does business with Wells Fargo.
- etchalon 4y agoI didn't have much of a choice. They bought our mortgage.
- Analemma_ 4y agoExample number ten thousand of why the "vote with your dollars and don't do business with them" defense of capitalism fails completely in practice.
- _skel 4y ago> Example number ten thousand of why the "vote with your dollars and don't do business with them" defense of capitalism fails completely in practice. Example number ten thousand of how everything bad is blamed on "capitalism." It's a lazy, shallow, knee-jerk reaction that is plaguing this site and ought to be forbidden by the guidelines. When you apply for a mortgage you are informed in advance that it might be sold. In fact, when I got mine I was told it would be sold. This information is given to every applicant as a legal requirement and people who don't like it don't need to go through with the application. There are also significant legal requirements for mortgage servicers (such as Wells Fargo) which constrain them to such an extent that they are pretty much interchangeable. This is far from a free market. If you have a beef with this system, you should take it out on Congress and the CFPB, not "capitalism."
- pksebben 4y agoyour analysis of the situation as being interchangeable is rendered invalid by the story you're responding to, and claiming "you should have read the fine print" is clearly bad faith in an era where EULAs are a half mile long. Also, to say "don't buy it if you don't like it" ignores a whole ton of a nuanced and complex situation, where there might not be better alternatives. I would be more than happy to discuss why it is some of us have beef with capitalism, if you're open to a level headed discussion. The idea that a free market allows the creation of opportunity and choice is powerful, but what I think many of us have seen happen is that a free market doesn't remain free, as wealthier interests will move to cement power through use of funds. The banks are the most prone example of this I can think of.
- twblalock 4y agoI never said anything about reading the fine print. I had to sign a short, readable form by hand which was explained to me in person by the lender. They are very, very up front about this (which is also required by law, which means everyone else in the US who got a mortgage in the past decade or two has also signed this form).
- 4y ago
- rabuse 4y agoI refuse to ever use their products, after their numerous scandals.
- IronWolve 4y agoThey also buy loans, sometimes you just end up with them.
- phaedryx 4y agoA story from when I was in college: My backpack got stolen and it had my checkbook in it. I went into Wells Fargo (I became their customer because they bought my regular bank) to figure out what to do. I was told that I had to close my account (connected to the checkbook) and open a new one. Kinda weird, but I went with it. They sent me a new checkbook and new ATM card. Landlord only took payment with checks so I wrote a check with my new checkbook; it bounced. It was really surprising because I thought I had the funds. I check with my balance with my new ATM card; plenty of money. I call customer service to figure out what was going on. It turns out that they had created two new accounts for me. One was connected to my checkbook and one to my ATM card. The one for my checkbook had a bunch of fines for the bounced check and fines for not paying the fines. The one for my ATM card had plenty. They tried several times to open another account to combine the two accounts together, which would have forced me to indirectly pay the fines that weren't my fault; I objected. In process of all of this they canceled my new ATM card accidentally. I went into my local branch and withdrew all of my money and canceled all of my accounts (I had somehow ended up with 4). I ended up paying my tuition, rent, etc. with cash which was a huge pain. It is the worst experience I've had with any bank and it was with many different employees.
- my_usernam3 4y agoOuch, I have a similar anecdote where they signed me up for a completely incorrect account when I was young. Some 100k minimum trading account when I was a broke 19 years old looking for the simplest type of bank account possible that I could access from hometown and college. Saw $15 monthly charges, went in, found out the problem, took my money and business elsewhere and haven't looked back.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- yborg 4y agoThis was directly caused by their policy of incenting new accounts which was the last thing they were sanctioned for.
- sophacles 4y agoI didn't have a choice. I got a mortgage from a local credit union who immediately sold it off to wells.
- reducesuffering 4y agoMany wealthy people are inclined because they'll have the lowest mortgage rates caused by a 0.5% interest rate deduction with a temporary asset transfer of $1m. Some people will take the 5% as opposed to 5.5% and save $300/month, because whoever originates your mortgage may just sell it to WF anyway.
- efsavage 4y agoI doubt many people really want to use them, any more than they really want to use any other megabank. A lot of people just use the bank that's closest to their house/work, thinking (and often not wrong from a retail point of view) that banks are fungible. As a former "customer", in many cases, like ours, it's because they use their capital/position to buy loans from other businesses, and there's nothing the borrower can do about it.
- caogecym 4y agoTheir ATMs are pretty handy. It does not require a physical card - you can just tap your phone on the ATM to withdraw cash. Also there’s lots of ATM locations in north California which is pretty convenient if you happened to need cash. One thing I do not understand though is that when deposit via their mobile app, they ask you to write something like “Used for Wells Fargo mobile deposit” on the check, which is a pain, not sure how other banks do it.
- BenjiWiebe 4y agoI have accounts at two different banks. One requires a similar message written on each check, the other doesn't.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ProAm 4y agoWIth two massive scandals within 5 years I think this bank should be broken up as part of its punishment. It's clearly too big to run an honest consumer safe business.
- michaelmrose 4y agoIt's assets should be liquided. Shareholders should be given exactly nothing. Let people consider that when choosing who to do business with.
- baobabKoodaa 4y ago> WIth two massive scandals... Oh, honey
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- twblalock 4y agoWhat about the 268,000 employees who work at Wells Fargo, 99% of whom had nothing to do with this? Most of those employees are just normal people trying to make a living, and it would be wrong to screw them because their bosses, who they never met or had anything to do with, did something wrong. Shutting down a company is the nuclear option -- it hurts many people who did nothing wrong, including most of the employees and the shareholders. It is not justice.
- theptip 4y agoBroken up != shut down. Without advocating for/against the proposal, to clarify: typically this means either business units are spun out as smaller companies, or sold off to competitors. You’d expect some job losses due to consolidation but it’s not like you are closing down all of the branches and sending everyone working there home.
- twblalock 4y agoHow exactly would you break up Wells Fargo into a subset of businesses that had a chance of surviving on their own? This is especially bad for a bank. Customers would freak out and leave. I can't find a single historical example of a bank breakup that didn't result in the destruction of the entire business.
- obblekk 4y agoI feel so much cognitive dissonance realizing that there are hard working people literally losing their home and shelter wrongly while I might be sitting across from them at any time, expecting them to behave within normal social boundaries. Imagine a family with a new born, working 50+ hours at a physically demanding job, making $80k/yr combined, and then losing their home for no reason... and then being expected to do everything else right while dealing quietly. Incidents like this make it easier for me to understand "protest voting" against the system politically. Not sure of constructive ways to prevent this more broadly.
- mbg721 4y agoThe fact that people experience this and then somehow don't say "burn it all down" is miraculous.
- toomuchtodo 4y agoI was unable to obtain a government backed mortgage for a decade because LexisNexis Risk Solutions was reporting a judgement inaccurately on my risk profile that they would not remove until I had a lawyer file suit against them and notified the CFPB. I received a $600 check as part of a $21M class action settlement [1]. I was lucky, and had the means to obtain creative financing (non-QM) when needed. Others are not so lucky. I share this story because once you have experienced something like this, it is totally understandable why people want to burn parts of the system down. Sometimes, they’re not wrong. There is a special place in hell for the people behind these corporate transgressions, who seemingly never face sufficient punishment for the harm they cause. [1] https://www.lienandjudgmentdisputes.com/lang/en/ https://www.lienandjudgmentdisputes.com/lang/en/
- mbg721 4y agoI agree 100%; what can a layman like me do to fix it?
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
- willcipriano 4y agoMy father taught me that if you are going to steal from someone you never steal his tools or his vehicle, because those are the means he uses to make a living and you dont want to be responsible for his kids going hungry. Given this history of Wells Fargo this isn't a one off accident. It's often said but people really need to go to prison for this, not club fed either, send them to be with the other carjackers.
- googlryas 4y agoA hierarchy of things to steal is a weird father-son lesson I must say.
- klyrs 4y agoThere are greater sins: we have a military, you know. Raising a child means teaching nuance in ethics. I've had similar conversations with my kid, arising from questions like "why do robbers exist?" "Why are some people homeless?" "Why do murderers exist?" Ethics is full of gray areas, and refusing to engage in hard conversations increases the risk that your kid will make the wrong call if they ever find themselves in a shitty situation.
- googlryas 4y agoYou can teach these lessons without engaging in an explicit discussion of "If you're going to steal, steal X and not Y". Just the intersection of "stealing is very bad unless absolutely necessary" and "some things are more important to people than other things" seems good enough to understand this. I've never stolen anything, except for a few hearts, and was taught to never steal, and yet I can somehow piece together that it is better to steal something trivial to a person rather than the means of their survival if need be.
- klyrs 4y agoTeach kids to connect the dots. But on the important stuff, connect the dots. Repetition is also important, and jarring imagery is a memory aid.
- silisili 4y agoWhy is it -always- Wells Fargo. There are thousands of banks out there, and Wells Fargo is not even close to being the biggest. But why are they in the news every year for some illegal dealings? It feels like they should be broken up or something at this point.
- e40 4y agoLeadership (or lack of).
- twblalock 4y agoThe other banks are better at not getting caught. Wells Fargo has more scrutiny too, because of some previous times they got caught. BofA or Citi or Chase are no different, they are just better at getting away with it.
- justin66 4y agoThe last time they had a big-ticket punishment [0] for their psychotic corporate behavior, it was because they had created millions of fraudulent accounts. There is no way to keep that quiet or "get away with it," they just assumed they would not be meaningfully punished. What you've posted is completely wrong, but it's the answer to a question I had, which was why the fuck does anyone still bank with Wells Fargo? There must be a lot of people cynical enough to think all banks are that bad. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_Fargo_cross-selling_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_Fargo_cross-selling_scan...
- briffle 4y agoIn the previous case, the company was fined $185Million. The CEO was personally fined $20M in a later lawsuits. The former CEO's total compensation was > $130M. That sounds much more like a cost of doing business, and a great risk. Heck, fines are classified as an expense for taxes.
- justin66 4y ago
- Tempest1981 4y agoSo what's the least-evil bank that has a network of cash machines everywhere? (Yes, still need cash for certain things) Edit: also with a non-buggy mobile app? My credit union has the worst app. They don't seem capable of improving it... probably outsourced.
- threads2 4y agoYou could use a credit union.
- ProAm 4y agoCredit Unions
- acchow 4y agoCharles Schwab will refund your ATM fees from any ATM. So will First Republic. So will TD Bank. Many Credit unions do the same.
- downrightmike 4y agoUSAA
- Tempest1981 4y agoCan non-US-military join? I thought not.
- 4y ago
- Tempest1981 4y agoAlso here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34069579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34069579
- dang 4y agoThat one was later so we'll merge it hither. Thanks!
- obblekk 4y agoOut of curiosity, do you union upvoters set for merges, or something similar? Not sure if that would be good, just curious.
- dang 4y agoHappy to answer but I don't understand the question!
- obblekk 4y agoI meant if there are 2 posts that you merge, do you also merge the upvote count (maybe by doing a union on the two sets of upvoters)?
- dang 4y agoAh ok. No, we don't do that, but we do intend to have some form of karma sharing and it will probably involve something like that.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- neonate 4y agohttps://archive.ph/cjnkX https://archive.ph/cjnkX
- supernova87a 4y agoAfter so many incidents with Wells Fargo, doesn't this point to something deeply ingrained in that company's culture? Such that even executives cannot change something about the system at the company that they have created? There must be some bad, little, everyday incentives permeating working at WF that causes the people there to produce these bad behaviors year after year. You can blame and change the execs, but they're not even in control of (or maybe even aware of?) the systems that are making people behave the way they do?
- kodyo 4y agoThere is nothing forcing anybody to bank with Wells Fargo. Their customers are clearly content, because they're still Wells Fargo customers. Edit: shit, someone else pointed out that they buy mortgages. Nevermind.
- hotpotamus 4y agoA previous company I worked for also used them for 401Ks, but I believe they've since sold off that business unit.
- dghlsakjg 4y agoMy oldest credit file is a credit card that I don't use anymore but it is owned by WF. If I close it, my credit score is negatively impacted by losing a decades old credit line. I don't particularly care about my credit score, and this sort of lock-in is pretty low friction, but changing banks can have costs. I hate them, over the years that I banked with them, they have consistently been a bad bank. I think I have at least two complaints that went to the CFPB with them (both ended in my favor). I switched my banking activity to another institution years ago, but I do still have accounts open with them. I'm a financially saavy rich white dude with a degree, and I still find it hard to sever the relationship. Imagine how lesser advantaged people feel. If you're choice is between WF and BOA because of geography or whatever, and you're used to financial institutions being shitty, why bother switching from one predatory institution to another?
- 4y ago
- rqtwteye 4y agoHow far do these companies have to go to be closed down as criminal organisation? I wonder the same about the Catholic Church. How many crimes have to be uncovered before they get marked as beyond rehabilitation?
- smm11 4y agoWF needs to go away. They pretend to be good and do good, and they just can't help but scam everyone.
- FollowingTheDao 4y agoYet they can STILL operate as a bank I cannot get a loan because I have outstanding medical debt????? (looking for my pitchfork...)
- bb88 4y agoThat's awesome that WF is paying $3.7B. Unfortunately the victims will likely never see any of that. That money will just go into the treasury. I would personally like to see the CPFB have the power to sue banks on behalf of customers to get financial redress. This money needs to get back to the people who suffered the most. Hell, paying only $3.7B with a pinky promise you won't do it again would still be profitable if you made $5B on the scheme.
- conanbatt 4y agoIf they did not get the money into their treasuries, they would not have incentives to do this at all. This very same thing happens with the SEC - they just keep the fines. How do people not think this is robbery is beyond me.
- nequo 4y ago> That money will just go into the treasury. My reading of the article is different. This reads as though $2bn of the $3.7bn was to go directly to the consumers whom Wells Fargo harmed: a $3.7 billion settlement with federal regulators, including a record $1.7 billion fine [...] The agreement with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau includes more than $2 billion in “redress to consumers” [...] The CFPB is ordering Wells Fargo to refund billions of dollars to consumers across the country.
- bb88 4y agoAnd that will be pennies on the dollar for what consumers lost. There should be 1:1 redress + damages. Not just "refunds".
- nequo 4y agoI agree that there is a lot more harm caused than the sheer monetary side of it. Don't do business with Wells Fargo if you can avoid it. But as far as the scale of the redress goes, the CFPB announcement[1] has an assessment of the total harm caused: Wells Fargo had systematic failures in its servicing of automobile loans that resulted in $1.3 billion in harm across more than 11 million accounts. Also a detailed list of how much Wells Fargo is to pay for which group of harmed consumers: Specifically, Wells Fargo will have to pay: More than $1.3 billion in consumer redress for affected auto lending accounts. More than $500 million in consumer redress for affected deposit accounts, including $205 million for illegal surprise overdraft fees. Nearly $200 million in consumer redress for affected mortgage servicing accounts. [1] https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-orders-wells-fargo-to-pay-37-billion-for-widespread-mismanagement-of-auto-loans-mortgages-and-deposit-accounts/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-order...
- conductr 4y ago> “Wells Fargo’s rinse-repeat cycle of violating the law has harmed millions of American families,” CFPB Director Rohit Chopra said in the statement. “The CFPB is ordering Wells Fargo to refund billions of dollars to consumers across the country. This is an important initial step for accountability and long-term reform of this repeat offender.” > Shares of the company rose 0.7% to $42.11 at 9:57 a.m. in New York. Sooo... the market likes this slap on the wrist
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Max-q 4y agoThe market had probably expected a worse punishment.
- game_the0ry 4y agoGreat, now WF management will lay off staff, most of which were not involved in any king of wrong-doing. And management gets to keep their bonuses. Penalizing Wells Fargo as a company will not solve the problem of institutional-scale bank fraud, but clawing back the compensation of executives will. Accountability and skin-in-the-game need to make a comeback.
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y agoNo prison?
- trap_goes_hot 4y agoThe new kids get arrested (SBF) but the old institutional dudes continue to rob us blind.
- calibas 4y agoSome good reading on Wells Fargo: https://www.theroot.com/ghetto-loans-for-mud-people-1790869595 https://www.theroot.com/ghetto-loans-for-mud-people-17908695... And a little story from my own experience. I was completely broke, and they slapped me with a big fine for not having enough money in my account. Then the teller smugly explained that I should be thankful because they could have fined me even more if they wanted to... I closed my account at that point. And for people who don't know what it's like being poor, here's an article on how expensive it actually is: https://finmasters.com/cost-of-being-poor/ https://finmasters.com/cost-of-being-poor/
- indy 4y agoReminded of the Louis C.K. sketch about being broke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3jLufZx3IM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3jLufZx3IM
- EdwardDiego 4y agoHow in the hell is it legal to charge someone a fee for having a balance below $X?
- hackerlight 4y agoThey would have "agreed" to it in the fine print of a 20 page ToS that they didn't have the time or legal skills to read. Then crony capitalist corruption makes it so that lawmakers don't outlaw it.
- zdragnar 4y agoDifferent types of accounts offer different types of incentives. Your standard free checking account won't have a minimum balance, but also isn't going to be earning any interest worth mentioning. On the other hand, there are account types with higher interest earnings rates or other perks which require that you maintain a minimum balance. The minimum balance ensures that the bank is able to use the money in its other investments, which is why you are rewarded with higher tier perks. Dropping below the minimum balance means that you haven't kept up your end of the bargain, so to speak. For example, the Way2Save savings account has a small monthly fee which is waived as long as you maintain a $300 minimum daily balance, or have automatic transfers, are under 24 years old, etc. The "Platinum" savings account tier has a $12 monthly fee which is waived only if you maintain $3,500. It is of course worth noting that the "perks" of these savings accounts are practically worthless- the earnings interest rates are far below inflation.
- snakeboy 4y agoNot 100% pertinent to this thread, but does anyone have experience changing US bank account while living overseas? I currently have my old account linked to my parent's address, and I'm worried it would be a huge headache to try and open a new account from abroad without a proper address. This is the only thing that is stopping me from closing my WF account.
- yborg 4y agohttps://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/wfc/wells-fargo/gross-profit https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/wfc/wells-fargo/gr... ~5% of their 2021 gross profits. A hearty laugh goes around the Wells Fargo boardroom, and some new scheme will be devised to defraud their unwitting customers. Without criminal liability, this is no disincentive at all.
- naikrovek 4y agofinally a somewhat sizeable fine for these turkeys. they will continue until it is not profitable to do so. large fines are basically the only leverage that the CFPB has that can really hurt, and historically fines for this thing have been very low, to my knowledge, which has not done a lot to deter the behavior that they are trying to deter.
- runako 4y agoWells Fargo is the worst repeat offender in American consumer financial services. There should be serious discussions around withdrawing their banking license. It's incredibly difficult to get a banking license in this country, and it does not serve the public good to have this predatory institution operating under the aegis of the American government. Pull their license, let some new entrants into the market.
- bob1029 4y agoI agree their charter should effectively be revoked at this point. A de novo bank (i.e. being granted a new charter) is a near impossibility in the US. Something this difficult to obtain should be just as easy to lose. Unfortunately, the FDIC can't just waltz in and shut down the whole damn bank without causing a nation-wide panic attack. Similar to failed banks, something like this would need to be dealt with using a special procedure to prevent bank runs. I think the best course of action would be to vacate the Wells Fargo board (and all officers), replacing them with members sourced from other US financial institutions.
- actionablefiber 4y ago> Similar to failed banks, something like this would need to be dealt with using a special procedure to prevent bank runs. You could, I suppose, use exactly the same procedure you use for a failed bank, which is force them to auction off their assets and liabilities, rolling their depositors into other, better-behaved banks.
- snake_doc 4y agoDe novo banks open all the time. 13 new de novo started business in 2022 [1] New management is important, and in this case Wells Fargo has had 4 CEOs since the scandal, and multiple board chairpersons. There has been significant turnover on its board and executive team. [2] [1] https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/new-bank-charter-applications-of-2022-bessemer-trust-co-of-nevada-aarbank-72604097 https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights... [2] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/wells-fargos-long-road-repair-extends-with-prospect-more-penalties-2021-09-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/wells-fargos-long-r...
- ourmandave 4y agoThe fine was levied by the Consumer Fraud Protection Agency (CFPB). Republican senators want to move CFPB under congressional annual funding and a five-member commission. Which sounds a lot like Defund the Bank Police. https://www.cucollaborate.com/blogs/republicans-urge-quick-passage-of-cfpb-funding-bill https://www.cucollaborate.com/blogs/republicans-urge-quick-p...
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y agoI haven't had any account frozen due to "suspicions" so far, but read about many such horrific cases. Hopefully, this fine will make financial institutions think twice before twiddling with people's accounts.
- ourmandave 4y agoI wonder if anyone is keeping score of the fines levied for all their fckery. Hey, there is! https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/wells-fargo https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/wells-farg... Current Parent Company Name: Wells Fargo Penalty total since 2000: $22,081,458,643 Number of records: 229
- acchow 4y agoI guess a tad over 1 year's worth of net income.
- jimt1234 4y agoI used to be a Wells Fargo customer, just before all the news of shady "operating practices". One day I was trying to login to their online banking web site, but my password wasn't working and the reset functionality also wasn't working. I called their customer support, and the rep told me to make sure I was using the correct password. She then read my password to me. Later that day I drove to the branch and closed my account. I've been with my local credit union ever since.
- MobileVet 4y agoThat… scares the crap out of me. How is that even possible, beyond the worst possible infrastructure practices imaginable? If I knew of another bank in North Carolina with decent coverage I would swap for sure. That said, don’t really use the atm that often so maybe I shouldn’t worry about that. Only at WF because Chase wasn’t in NC and yes they opened extra accounts for me.
- whoIsYou 4y agoyeah just switch to Chase. been banking with them my entire life, literally 0 problems their mobile app aint amazing, but hell, I can overlook that
- miguelazo 4y agoNo fine is enough for these giant banks that repeatedly engage in this behavior. They should be broken up, disbanded, and the responsible officers tried on criminal charges.
- johnny_b_g 4y ago
- dang 4y agoWe've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. It will eventually get your main account banned as well. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- tambeb 4y agoI haven't been with Wells Fargo for a few years now, but I did get a check for about $200 in the mail the other day due to some fees that had been processed in an "unintended manner" apparently.
- SapporoChris 4y agoSimilar thing happened to me. I had been a customer for maybe ten years and had my account closed over one overdraft. I got an apology check for a little over $100 a few months ago. I haven't been with Wells Fargo in over a decade, I had changed addresses, I was very surprised. I had excellent experiences with Wells Fargo up until they closed my account. Instant car loan approval and overnighted loan. At the time they had one of best online experiences. I have no intention of returning, I don't ever want to experience an account closing again.
- jonbake 4y agoWhy would anyone continue to give Wells Fargo business at this point? Rates between various banks are competitive. It seems like the deciding factor in which bank to choose is how well they treat their customers, which WF fails miserably at.
- tiffanyh 4y agoWarren Buffet offloaded all his remaining Wells Fargo shares earlier this year, was a signal things aren't good. https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/20/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-done-wells-fargo/ https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/20/warren-buffett-ber...
- chairmanwow1 4y agoI had a Wells Fargo account in college and closed it a few years ago when I saw they had opened fake accounts and charged their customers a bunch of fees. It didn’t happen to me, but I will never trust an institution that treats customers this way. Shocking to me that people would use a bank like this.
- encryptluks2 4y agoSo people are going to be getting their money back? They owe me about $1500.
- eyelidlessness 4y agoI’ll never see a single penny from WF, but I’ll also never forget they helped turn a smallish life catastrophe into a decade of my life being chaotic hell. They were not the root cause. They weren’t even systemically the worst challenge I faced. They were the gigantic multiplier on both though. I had a persistent medical issue I couldn’t treat because it was determined by insurance companies that treatment would be elective. Not my insurance, mind you, I couldn’t afford any. But they got to decide whether I’d be able to get surgery on debt versus paying up front. After months trying to find a solution, family footed the bill, somewhat gofundme style but strings attached. And I was expected to go fund them back. I dutifully obliged, as soon as I could go back to work. I sent the first check, 10% of the surgery… That check sat gathering dust for over a year. I’ll never know why it got deposited, but WF knew it was illegal to honor it. They knew it didn’t matter what I had already been through, the check was expired and they could not legally honor it. I had of course forgotten the check was written over a year later. When I got hit with compounding overdraft fees I couldn’t opt out of, they would not discuss the fact that they illegally processed my check. I’m supposed to be good for my checks, they said. So for a decade I was guilty of “fraud” because WF illegally debited my account and then hit me with recursive fees for illegally charging me money they couldn’t charge. My only recourse was to just hunker down and manage my money carefully as I always had, for ten years. 1/4 of my life so far was set back because they knew I couldn’t afford a lawyer to do anything about the law they admitted knowing they broke. And that’s nothing compared to what they did to most of these victims.
- symlinkk 4y agoI am struggling to understand this. You wrote a big check to a family member, they didn’t cash it for awhile, and when they finally did cash it you didn’t have enough money in your account and got hit with fines? That does not sound evil. And how big were these fines that you’re claiming it took a quarter of your life away?
- eyelidlessness 4y agoMy family member probably forgot to deposit the check. The bank knew it had been illegal to honor the check for over a year, because all checks expire. They admitted they honored the check illegally, but they claimed I had defrauded them. Which I had not, neither in intent nor their own rules, nor the law. They still put a black mark on me that limited how I could operate financially that wouldn’t expire for a decade even though they knew they broke the law. I didn’t have any recourse. Hope that helps you understand. Edit: and the fines were too much to afford at the time but were not nearly as harmful as a decade record of “fraud” I didn’t commit. Maybe people here don’t realize it but when you have a record of fraud you can’t… do the things you all think are normal? Having a record of fraud because a bank told you they don’t care they know you didn’t commit fraud is ten years of recovering your financial reputation.
- BryanBeshore 4y agoWhen is Wells Fargo not mistreating customers? I feel like every few years it's another Wells Fargo story.
- mvuksano 4y agoMight be time to start a petition / gofundme campaign to withdraw their license? Not sure how that would work but I'm sure there are people who do and with some monetary support can shut down this massive corrupt bank forever as well as (hopefully) put some execs in jail.
- zxcvbn4038 4y agoThe banks were really eager to repossess houses during the last mortgage crisis (next one coming soon), and they were often quick to do so, but then they discovered - you have to maintain them, pay taxes, pay utilities, keep the grass cut, have people walk them periodically to look for damage, etc. If the market is crashed you had to hold them for long periods until a buyer came along. In the end a lot of banks were wishing they had negotiated instead. I had a house that I kept vacant for several years thinking I might return and several things I learned is 1) service people don’t like doing business over the phone because they fear not being paid so it’s very difficult to maintain things remotely 2) about half the time people don’t do the work if they think you won’t notice (i.e I paid almost five grand for monthly termite control over three years but when I flew in and inspected the stations it was obvious they had not been maintained for an extended time, the lawn company I hired kept sending me bills long after they stopped coming out) 3) if people think your house is vacant they dump trash there and the city charges you hundreds of dollars each time it happens - plus you then have to pay to dispose it. Having a tons of construction waste someone dumped in your driveway removed is expensive 4) raccoons don’t perceive drywall as a barrier, and if they get in they bring all their friends.
- berniedurfee 4y agoWithout personal accountability, nothing will change.
- tengwar2 4y agoI understand that company officers cannot be directly sued or prosecuted for the actions of the company that they run, on the legal theory that the company is a separate person. However is there any reason that they cannot be prosecuted as accessories before the fact?