9 ms·
Tech aims to block hatching of billions of male chicks fated for culling (2021)
- a_shovel 4y ago> What Cinnamon and his team determined revolves around the common denominator of all male chickens, the Z chromosome from the mother hen. This would also be a common denominator with the female chickens. Birds, unlike mammals, use the ZW sex-chromosome system, where males have the symmetric ZZ chromosomes and females have a pair of asymmetric ZW chromosomes. I'd like to know more about this, such as a general description of what kind of change they made, as this article is really light on technical details.
- alangibson 4y agoIIRC, this is why birds can undergo parthenogenesis in rare cases.
- Dylan16807 4y agoI don't know about "why". It seems like it would be slightly easier with the same chromosomes. And it happens with both systems. If you specifically mean parthenogenesis to a male egg, then yes you'd generally need something like ZW.
- projektfu 4y agoThe maternal Z is not a common denominator of female chickens. Female chickens have a Z chromosome from the sperm and males have one each from the sperm and the egg. For a laying hen to have a female offspring, it has to pass on a W. Therefore, if you make the mother hen's ovary produce eggs with a lethal z, but a non-lethal W, normal sperm will produce viable ZW females and Zz males with a lethal mutation.
- sschueller 4y agoThere is already an alternative method to determine sex before the eggs hatch by analyzing hormones in the egg liquid. [1] [1] https://www.seleggt.com/ https://www.seleggt.com/ [2] https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/eier-produktion-sinnloses-kuekentoeten-ist-nun-endlich-schluss-damit-2 https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/eier-produktion-sinnloses-ku... (German)
- crote 4y agoWait, I thought this was already a solved problem? We've been able to determine the sex of chicken eggs from the outside using lasers for quite a few years now. [0] [0]: https://physicsworld.com/a/laser-spectroscopy-determines-sex-of-a-chicken-egg/ https://physicsworld.com/a/laser-spectroscopy-determines-sex...
- Traubenfuchs 4y agoJust like better batteries and non-lithium batteries, this seems to be an issue that has been solved numerous times in the last decade without broad application of the solution.
- PuppyTailWags 4y agoUnfortunately lasers aren't cheaper than tossing living male chicks into grinders.
- RegnisGnaw 4y agoToo slow, the article says 95% accuracy with about one a minute. Graduates of the Zen Nippon Chick Sexing School is about 99.7% accurate @ every 3-4 seconds. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jobs-chickens-idUSTRE67U0S520100831 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jobs-chickens-idUSTRE67U0...
- sergiotapia 4y agoLicense and registration, "Chicken sexers"!
- bell-cot 4y agoVs. the traditional solution - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capon#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capon#History
- gs17 4y agoThat's not the "traditional solution", capons are something different entirely. These are egg laying breeds, they aren't considered worth raising for meat.
- cmrdporcupine 4y agoBut that has to do with the specialization via breeding more than it has to do with anything intrinsic. We raise dual purpose chickens on a hobby basis, and I understand that, yes, this would not be acceptable on an industrial/commercial scale, but that says more about that kind of market, that kind of farming & the way consumers are insulated from the affects of it than it does about the quality of the birds or the meat. In other words, yet again, the true externalities are not always exposed to the consumer. EDIT: I should mention I am also fully in favour of things like this genetic engineering work that could provide a larger scale solution assuming they can be done humanely. Same for male dairy cows.
- bell-cot 4y agoTHIS. Not quite a century ago, a couple of my uncles raised & sold capons in a small rural American town. It was a side business, male chicks were ~free, and they did the caponization themselves.
- Dylan16807 4y agoWas that actually using up all of the male chicks? More than half? If not then it's not really a 'solution'.
- bell-cot 4y ago
- testfoobar 4y agoIn case some readers may not know, male chicks in the egg industry are literally ground and shredded alive. I won't direct link to videos because they are graphic, but you can easily find them online. Here is an indirect link: https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+male+chicks+grinder&oq=youtube+male+chicks+grinder https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+male+chicks+grinder&...
- taberiand 4y agoI don't totally understand what's wrong with that. It doesn't seem like a particularly cruel way to kill an animal, it's an instant death isn't it? Is the resultant product just waste, or can it be put to good use? Edit: it seems it can be used as animal feed. It feels like a distraction from thinking about fixing the way the hens get treated through their miserable lives.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y agoI think part of the issue is that as a society we moved too far away from what we are. I was raised on a farm. I saw chicken heads cut off and sheep slaughtered, but it was all done in.. what is the word I am looking for here.. in a non-industrial manner. You knew you were taking a life and you tried not to make it ( edit: unnecessarily ) painful and not a pointless sacrifice ( in western society anyway some ethos definitely developed over time ). But buying a mcnugget at mcdonalds removes that clear connection between life and death. << It feels like a distraction from thinking about fixing the way the hens get treated through their miserable lives. It is a distraction, but I believe it is a valid related point nonetheless.
- kennedywm 4y agoIn general, we're protected from the true costs of our decisions. It's not just consumption of animal products, but negative externalities generally. We're willing to accept terrible things when divorced from the consequences of our actions and, even when made aware of these consequences, we dismiss them to protect our conceptualization of ourselves as "good" people.
- globalise83 4y agoWhat will the pet pythons of the world eat in future?
- jimbob45 4y agoIt's a bit spooky to see Israel of all countries looking into anything birth-related. I would prefer to see this come out of literally any other country. Furthermore, doesn't this raise the same concerns as we had with the genetically-altered dud mosquitos released to slow the mosquito population (and disease proliferation)? The mosquitos that ended up having unforeseen consequences?
- culanuchachamim 4y ago?! A big chunk of Israel startups and tech is focused on agriculture, this is one more on the list.
- progman32 4y agoI am disturbed by your first two sentences. Please explain your reasoning.
- jimbob45 4y agoIsrael cares more about birth counts than virtually any other country in the world by virtue of their relationship with the Palestinians. The Palestinians are rapidly approaching the tipping point where they will outnumber Israelis. At that time, it's possible that Israel would have to renegotiate which country controls which regions.
- progman32 4y agoI see no connection between this agricultural tech and the territorial dispute you mention. I'm bowing out, thanks for your time.
- linuxftw 4y agoIMO, genetic modification is less humane than grinding the male chicks. In any case, the breeders for the egg layers likely already have logistics in place for the ground baby chicks (pet food, fertilizer, etc) which is likely easier to process than aborted eggs. Since the eggs will presumably be incubated, they won't be human consumable, and how you have an additional waste stream to work with. Every single laying chicken also dies or gets killed in industrialized farms (indeed, all living things on Earth die eventually), and it's likely a less-instantaneous process than the rooster grinder.
- progman32 4y agoFirst I hear someone express the opinion in your first sentence. I'm curious to hear more. Why do you hold this view?
- d23 4y agoIt seems there’s sometimes an arms race in the comments section here to see who can produce the edgiest, most contrarian point the fastest. I’m waiting for the one that says extended, lifelong torture is actually healthy for the animals.
- linuxftw 4y agoI don't believe treating a living animal as a science experiment is more humane.
- koolba 4y ago> Their concept was to introduce the gene that halts the embryogenesis to the Z chromosome, in order to stop the creation of male chicks at the stage when they are only a microscopic cluster of cells. > “We’re making a genetic modification that segregates only to the males and is perfectly validated,” said Cinnamon. Framed as “gene editing to prevent male cell genesis” to make this happen, there’s going to be plenty of people that refuse to eat these eggs.
- gjsman-1000 4y agoConsidering all the times science has made mistakes historically up unto now, I say it is their right to not eat them if they so choose. My parents still haven't forgiven "fat makes you fat."
- f1shy 4y agoFor the last past years (at least 2) I've been eating eggs which comes from farms which do not kill the males. Don't know exactly how they do it, but the possibility is available. They are more expensive, but if you feel is not ok to kill them...
- william_T 4y agoI really believed what this guy was saying until I got here: said Cinnamon. “Chickens are the most important organism in world, And I just do not agree with that statement.