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The truffle industry is a scam

• mkl95 4y ago
  I watched a short documentary about truffles. They showed how truffles are analyzed with a microscope that is rendered with an old UI, 90s / early 2000s kind of stuff. It looked like an opportunity to build something more powerful.
  • matthews2 4y ago
    What would the commercial value of a shinier UI be?
• elil17 4y ago
  Saying that 2,4-dithiapentane has nothing to do with truffles is like saying that vanillin has nothing to do with vanilla. It’s artificial truffle flavor. I happen to enjoy it, I’d just like to be charged a fair price for it given that it’s not actually expensive.
• sorokod 4y ago
  "The Truffle Hunters" is a very sweet film, worth watching even if you are not a truffle addict.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • rightbyte 4y ago
    Also "Pig" with Nicolas Cage is surprisingly good. Not very truffle centric though.
    • Avalaxy 4y ago
      And also not 'very sweet'. That movie left me thoroughly depressed, needing to watch a second movie right after, just to flush the sadness away.
  • rwmj 4y ago
    It's a great film, still available on BBC iPlayer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0016489/storyville-the-truffle-hunters https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0016489/storyville-th... However there was a missed opportunity to end the film on the brilliantly directed scene of the gourmet eating the fried eggs with truffles. The perfect way to end a film about gathering truffles.
• sgt101 4y ago
  The problem is not the synthetic truffle flavouring, which I like, but the fact that it's so expensive. Very upsetting.
  • JofArnold 4y ago
    Yeah. In Italy it's a different story though. We ended up with way too many black truffles last year than we knew what to do with. Helped to know the right people of course and clearly this hobbyist collection process doesn't scale. But for the locals and local restaurants they are well catered for... for a while.
• prvit 4y ago
  > There are no white and black winter truffles out of season. They cannot be frozen, cooked, sterilized, packaged, or stored Is that really true? I’m not a truffle expert, but I’ve seen several suppliers offering flash frozen winter truffles.
  • sendfoods 4y ago
    me neither, but I can attest to the massive difference between flash freezing and freezing from other foods. I would assume the same holds true here, as well: significantly less cell damage during flash freezing, preserving more or original flavor and texture.
  • jakewins 4y ago
    This random culinary blog seems to say it's kind of true that you can't preserve the original truffle through freezing, the process changes them. They compare it to freezing fresh bread - the result is safe to eat, but not the same as the original. https://blog.dibruno.com/2016/12/10/how-to-preserve-a-fresh-truffle/ https://blog.dibruno.com/2016/12/10/how-to-preserve-a-fresh-...
    • eginhard 4y ago
      Bread can be frozen with very little impact on quality.
      • JohnFen 4y ago
        I have never seen bread frozen without a serious impact on quality.
        • samatman 4y ago
          That's why the places which have done that to you, without you noticing or even suspecting, don't show it to you: if you see it, you'll imagine you can tell. You can't.
          • 4y ago
• floydnoel 4y ago
  Huh, TIL. I never did much enjoy the “truffle” flavored stuff, makes sense now. It really does smell like petroleum, I suppose it only makes sense if that’s where they get it.
  • stavros 4y ago
    How does it make sense? The stuff that makes petroleum smell like petroleum is not that stuff, so the fact that it smells like it could just be a coincidence. It's never smelled like petroleum to me, though.
• emsy 4y ago
  Does this apply to the EU? I had store bought truffle oil and self-made truffle oil and both tasted similar, so maybe it’s more regulated over here.
  • rapsey 4y ago
    If I get something in a restaurant (in EU) that has "truffles" in it the taste is exactly like described in the article. Kind of gross and very pungent. I don't exactly go to high end restaurants often.
  • permo-w 4y ago
    I’ve definitely come across this kind of truffle oil in the UK, pre-brexit
  • morsch 4y ago
    Absolutely. Here's a random example (Google translation). It has both the aroma in it and the cheap, allegedly tasteless, truffles in it. They have another product that purports to have no aroma and the most expensive truffles in it (around 1%); kind of hard to believe. Tartufi di Fassia Tartufata with black truffles is made in Italy exclusively with organic black truffles and the natural aroma of black truffles. This tartufata comes without any artificial flavors and you can taste this unadulterated and delicious taste with every bite. Shipping weight: 120 g per piece Ingredients: Mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus), extra virgin olive oil, 6% summer truffle (Tuber Aestivum vitt), salt, parsley, black truffle flavored preparation* (extra virgin olive oil, black truffle flavorings), parsley, garlic*. https://www.tasteatlas.com/truffle-industry-is-a-big-scam https://www.tasteatlas.com/truffle-industry-is-a-big-scam
    • jamincan 4y ago
      What are black truffle flavorings?
      • morsch 4y ago
        Your guess is as good as mine, but presumably it's 2,4-dithiapentane.
• tluyben2 4y ago
  A friend of ours has a truffle farm (in France) and he does very well selling to restaurants all over Europe. The taste is nice but can be overbearing if you put too much. Don’t think I ever had the synthetic one as I was raised with real truffle taste. Did not know you could not freeze/keep them; will ask my friend now.
  • ljlolel 4y ago
    What did he say?
• fedeb95 4y ago
  Can confirm some of this. The real problem is expensive synthetic stuff. Makes sense to imitate the real deal, since truffles exist in very small quantities. But at least say so.
• maxboone 4y ago
  Just because something is extracted from petroleum doesn't mean it must always taste or smell like gas. We have plenty of synthetic compounds that taste nothing like it at all. That said, it's very ugly that this happens, I hope the EU will start protecting the term truffle.
  • jylam 4y ago
    > "Just because something is extracted from petroleum doesn't mean it must always taste or smell like gas" But in this case it does, what's your point ?
    • jagged-chisel 4y ago
      Article says it's the same compound. So truffles also smell like gas.
      • advisedwang 4y ago
        Truffles have hundreds of chemicals in them, it's a complex aroma. Truffle flavour is one single note from this, usually at a very high intensity. It's a different experience. (note that this is true for many artificial flavors, there's lots of esters often known as "pear" "banana" "strawberry" etc but as I'm sure you are aware artifical banana candy is a long long way from tasting like an actual banana.
• algesten 4y ago
  Explains a lot. I remember having truffle shavings at the table on pasta at a posh italian restaurant in the early 2000, and it was reassuringly expensive. Didn't taste of much, I wasn't overwhelmed. A bit earthy, but nothing special. Then I read somewhere that some people can't taste truffle. So I put it down to that. More recently if I get something that says "truffle", it's this crazy almost garlic style punch (without the aftertaste of garlic). I've been confused why my experience of this changed so much from then to now… should have known I was being scammed!
  • dm319 4y ago
    I don't see myself going to the effort/expense of having authentic truffles. It's just a very particular mild taste. I think I can do without it.
    • kibwen 4y ago
      There's the kicker. Truffles aren't beloved because of their flavor (which is fine), they're beloved because of their rarity and expense, which allows you to signal your social status. They're the diamonds of the food world.
      • dm319 4y ago
        When I was younger I used to believe when people talked about how amazing certain items or experiences were. They were often very expensive, or very hard to get to. I used to believe that they really were such a unique and special experience and that was why people would go to the trouble and expense of having it. Being older now, I see that the real value in the item or experience was being able to tell me about it. So many things fall into this category, if not completely, at least partially.
  • mdp2021 4y ago
    > Didn't taste of much Truffles vary in taste and intensity, yet the price will easily be set on classes that ignore the quality of the single tuber. Some may taste horribly - it can happen - and yet be sold with a price following their class (not their individual merit). I am afraid it is racist: all truffles of the same family are regarded the same by some, in spite of strong individual differences.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• js4ever 4y ago
  I perfectly remember being disgusted forever by a plate of pastas with truffle oil, I called the waitress and complained about the petroleum smell (and taste). Before that I had the real thing and it was amazing. I'm not sure if I will ever try again because of the bad memory.
  • SapporoChris 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truffle_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truffle_oil I sincerely doubt that any marketed truffle oil is based on petroleum. Perhaps the method of cooking influenced the taste?
    • enriquto 4y ago
      > I sincerely doubt that any marketed truffle oil is based on petroleum. It's explained right there in the wikipedia article you link to.
      • knutzui 4y ago
        Petroleum is not mentioned anywhere in that article. It does say that truffle oil may be based on any kind of oil.
        • random_savv 4y ago
          Maybe not directly mentioned, but a linked article says "2,4-Dithiapentane is the dimethyldithioacetal of formaldehyde. It is prepared by the acid-catalyzed condensation of methyl mercaptan, the main aromatic compound in both halitosis and foot odor and a secondary compound in flatulence,[1] with formaldehyde." not great!
          • strken 4y ago
            It's also an aromatic component in cheese and in real truffles. This is a misrepresentation of the facts on the same level as "dihydrogen monoxide makes up the majority of urine, industrial detergent, antifreeze, human sweat, and pus."
• Fiahil 4y ago
  I'm French and I live in France. Here, most of our truffles are real truffle. We do get some Tuber aestivum as well, but that's alright because they're displayed as "truffe d'été". No harm done. As the article said, the "truffle flavour" has nothing to do with the real stuff, and outside of France, Italy and Spain, you probably won't get them on the market. You might be lucky in some restaurants all over Europe. But everywhere else it's propably not the "real" black truffle. Especially, if they put some in ketchup...
  • coldtea 4y ago
    >I'm French and I live in France. Here, most of our truffles are real truffle. In Michelin star restaurants maybe. Else, you'd be surprised...
    • mdp2021 4y ago
      In very vast territories of Western Europe, coldtea, direct providers such as restaurateurs still work through reputation. You'd stop working if the clientele saw you are not trustworthy. Edit: What you will see in the frontpage of the "Truffle Dogs University" in Roddi - http://www.universitadeicanidatartufo.it/prodotti.htm http://www.universitadeicanidatartufo.it/prodotti.htm - is relevant: you will see the picture of a guy in front of the products. He "puts his face on it" - that is his reputation at implicit stake -, and he is proud. That is the normal standard. Also notice one important thing: «Available for /small/ shipments» - the goods are in limited quantity (fake ones could be produced ad libitum).
    • tarsinge 4y ago
      What’s sad is even if you get some real truffle (grated/chips…) customers expect a stronger taste so it’s mixed with oil with synthetic aroma. In the Perigord region there are controlled open markets I visited, a 20g truffle for like 2 persons costs around 15€.
  • mytailorisrich 4y ago
    I believe that in France the common complaint is that cheap truffles are actually a different species from Yunnan, China.
• karmakurtisaani 4y ago
  People should do more thinking with their taste buds and less with what they hear. If they enjoy this truffle oil made from gasoline, why not eat it. Otherwise leave it be. This morning I had an expensive artisan craft coffee. I've never been able to taste the difference, so I'm not going to act like it was something extraordinary. Atmosphere was nice though.
  • xiphias2 4y ago
    I love coffee, and most of the time I go to specialty coffee shops just because they know the basics of making coffee: not heat up the milk more than necessary, and the coffee beans shouldn't be burned too much (which is necessary for the worst part of the coffee beans). Sadly most of the coffee shops don't even try to achieve these two things.
  • williamdclt 4y ago
    > If they enjoy this truffle oil made from gasoline, why not eat it The article does say that, but makes the (valid) point that it's not okay to sell it pretending that it's "the real stuff" with a corresponding price tag. What I'm curious about is that the author seems to suggest these artificial flavouring are unhealthy ("causing long-term damage to [...] your stomach and palate") but doesn't say why.
    • permo-w 4y ago
      the author also says that the chemical is actually found in truffles
      • newsclues 4y ago
        If you ask for a glass of water and a waiter gives you a glass of urine, do you smile and drink it because urine also has H2O in it and therefore has the same chemical found in water?
        • Biganon 4y ago
• atemerev 4y ago
  In France, Italy, Switzerland truffles are pretty common (usually summer truffles, occasionally black). You should buy these yourself, though; no guarantees in restaurants.
• boulanger75 4y ago
  Speak for you. French truffle is controlled by State and not a crook
  • nells 4y ago
    If it’s controlled by the state then, by definition, it’s controlled by a crook.
• cactusplant7374 4y ago
  Is there a taste difference between hallucinogenic truffles in NL and regular truffles?
  • theelous3 4y ago
    They are essentially part of the root structure of psychoactive fungi. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclerotium https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclerotium Also, they are absolutely disgusting. Find someone who will sell you the shrooms instead :) I believe culinary truffles are more the-thing-itself, rather than a secondary supporting structure such as sclerotium.
    • cactusplant7374 4y ago
      They made my stomach hurt. I tried chocolate and tea. Same result. I’m very curious to know if pure psilocybin causes gastrointestinal problems.
      • theelous3 4y ago
        It's not your stomach, it's your mind. To some degree as you adjust, your body may feel poisoned because your experience is so strange. The trick to hassle free tripping: In the morning have something very small. A short coffee and a pastry. Don't eat for 4-5 hours - non-negotiable. Eat your shrooms with a very small amount of water and maybe one or two crisps (or chips if you're from the US.) Go sit down and relax :) You will, with 95% certainty, feel absolutely fine. Having food in your stomach triggers a need to expel it. Truffles are also rough on your stomach, but that's their nature, not the good stuff.
        • cactusplant7374 4y ago
          > It's not your stomach, it's your mind. > Truffles are also rough on your stomach This is my experience. And apparently your experience too although you took it as an opportunity to lecture.
• ggm 4y ago
  I believe truffle may be like coriander (cilantro) elucidating a disgust response in some people. I just cannot stand its smell, or taste, and avoid truffle fries and truffle oil extras. It's not about being fungi, I love other mushrooms. I love coriander. I just know some people say "soap" and wrinkle their noses. Well.. truffle does that to me, and I've had chunks of it the size of nuts in France in the early 70s, I know it wasn't some factory extract (it was the mayors birthday and we lucked into it with a local)
  • rightbyte 4y ago
    The first time I tasted coriander cake was on my friends' family boat. He and his mother made it and he was really proud. I spit it out over board and complained it must be full of dishing soap ...
    • moron4hire 4y ago
      I have this issue as well. What drives me nuts is how people think it's a preference that I don't like cilantro. No, I'm fundamentally having a different experience. I have no idea what cilantro is supposed to taste like, but "fill a dish full of soap” seems very unlikely to be an intentional choice for a cook. I've read that there is a compound in cilantro that we can taste that is untastable to other people. I've noticed that finally chopped and/or cooked cilantro is not anywhere near as strong. So it must be some volatile chemical. Once I was able to clearly identify the taste, I started noticing other tastes in raw vegetables that went away after fine-chopping and cooking. For the most part, I find raw vegetables almost inedible, especially things like bell peppers. But cooked up, they are completely fine. I also noticed that, if I try to push through eating many raw vegetables, I start to have an allergic reaction on my tongue. This is especially true for cilantro, basil, celery, and to a lesser extent carrots and tomatoes. Again, cooked is no problem. I'm my mind, they're all linked. Some uniqueness of my tongue genetics makes me susceptible to one or more certain chemicals that others can tolerate. And my tongue is trying to tell me it's bad for me.
      • code_duck 4y ago
• deleted 4y ago
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• oxfordmale 4y ago
  Aroma Science Technology is widely used in the food industry, often out of necessity. There aren't enough strawberries in the world to meet the demand for strawberry flavoured ice cream. Food scientists identified the chemical that makes strawberry taste like strawberry and managed to produce it artificially. The same applies to truffle oil. At least in Europe it should be possible, other than by price, to identify if you are buying genuine truffle oil or truffle flavoured oil. However prepare to pay. 250 ml (8.5 fl Oz) of truffle oil cost around $100 at Fortnum and Mason. I would recommend you buy from reliable sources only and definitely resist to urge to buy before Christmas as the market is flooded with truffle flavoured alternatives at the moment.
  • denton-scratch 4y ago
    Fortnum & Mason is a shop that is frequented by shoppers that are not price-sensitive. I wouldn't take their prices as indicative.
    • oxfordmale 4y ago
      Most people wanting genuine truffle oil aren't likely to be price sensitive, however, you make a valid point. Unfortunately this time of year, before Christmas, search results are flooded with Christmas offers. You are likely to get much better deals if you can buy locally in a truffle growing region.
  • permo-w 4y ago
    I’ve never once tasted something “strawberry-flavoured” that actually tasted like a strawberry
    • oxfordmale 4y ago
      In they end they just extract a single chemical and not the entire bouquet of flavours of a natural strawberry. However, if you ask a small child to taste strawberry flavoured ice cream and identify it is flavour they will get it right more often than not. It is a good philosophical question, if in a 10,000 years people would still link the strawberry flavour with an actual strawberry, especially if advertising companies slowly tweak the image of a strawberry to look more appetising.
• runj__ 4y ago
  > Smell the dish before putting truffles on it and insist that the waiters grate them in front of you. Please don't do this, that would be obnoxious. Treat waiters with some level of respect.
  • eafkuor 4y ago
    Depends where you are. In an expensive restaurant (serving real truffles) this is a completely reasonable request
    • mdp2021 4y ago
      You'll be pleased to know that if you went to the places where they do have the truffles in the ground, you do not need the restaurant to be «expensive» to be served real truffles. Black truffles are sliced on your "normal" ~10€ dishes.
  • jbuhbjlnjbn 4y ago
    I'd say you can smell a dish unobtrusively without being in the waiters' faces with it.
  • mdp2021 4y ago
    You are misreading it completely: it is a preliminary "Do you slice the truffle on it? How is the dish prepared?". There exist perfectly appropriate ways of "«insisting»" ("Thank you, good, I would like to have it sliced in presence"). You put the slices on top: they are not dishes with preliminary preparation (which imply mixing the ingredients). It is just normal to do it in presence - and definitely sensible.
  • pyrale 4y ago
    Waiters in restaurants used to serve the real deal expect you to do this, just like sommeliers will expect you to taste the wine before agreeing to buying the bottle. They want people to know they're served real truffles, because that's what weeds out competitors cheating on products.
• yawnxyz 4y ago
  Not sure how legit this is, but Australia just had a bout of “truffles on everything” season in the last few months. And quite a few shops and markets had actual whole truffles to buy. Apparently they’re cultivated here? https://truffleindustry.com.au/faq/ https://truffleindustry.com.au/faq/
  • Nursie 4y ago
    Yeah there’s a whole back story about bringing over inoculated trees and then waiting years for them to spread and be harvestable, IIRC
• Kiro 4y ago
  tl;dr: Fake truffle tastes better than real truffle, to an extent that restaurants using real truffles are forced to flavor it. This makes connoisseurs mad while no-one else cares.
  • mdp2021 4y ago
    > connoisseurs No, it is "know what you eat". "Know what you put inside you"
• Nathanael_M 4y ago
  Maybe 5 years ago I was hanging out with a buddy and we took an angle grinder to an empty propane tank. When we were finished, we smelled uniquely awful. It turns out that added to propane is a tiny amount of the odourant Ethyl Mercaptan. Now when you’re using propane you get just enough of a whiff of it to remind you that you’re using propane, but if you get a smell of the inside of an empty propane tank? Well, something about the liquid propane residue that remains, some miracle of science and chemistry, creates a density of Ethyl Mercaptan that is shocking. Room-fillingly shocking. Clothes throwing away shocking. Many showers worth of shocking. A couple years ago I had my first “truffle” experience with some truffle cheese and was like cutting back into that propane tank. Not the same in scale, but certainly in type. Tremendously similar smells. Since then I’ve been sad and thought I just managed to ruin truffles for myself. This article has given me hope.
  • SnowHill9902 4y ago
    That’s how many industrial fires start.
    • aperson_hello 4y ago
      This. Grinding = sparks. Sparks + propane remnants = explosions
  • riffraff 4y ago
    ah, that resonates with my experience with obviously fake truffle aroma: to me it always smelled like gas.
  • orangepurple 4y ago
    I seriously hope you filled that propane tank full of water then drained it completely and left it upside down before cutting into it. Hole pointing down. This is an extreme fire and explosion hazard because propane sinks to the bottom of the tank.
    • nemo44x 4y ago
      It also gets into the pores of the steel which can be enough to explode.
• mdp2021 4y ago
  Very misleading title, hanging by that ambiguous '«industry»'. It's simple: use real truffles instead of "truffle" oils. And, if proposed truffle oil (which'd seem honestly odd from the /real/ industry - you normally just slice the tuber on the host dish, there is no discarded part to obtain derivative products), you do as you are supposed to do for everything else: you trust a specific professional on founded grounds. -- Edit: > [producing truffle oil] seem[s] honestly odd from the /real/ industry - you normally just slice the tuber on the host dish, there is no discarded part to obtain derivative products I could finally think of a reason: real truffles decay, while by making truffle oil you may extend the life of the good. In fact, I think I saw (almost certainly real) truffle oil produced at least around Roddi (in the Langhe).
• AndyMcConachie 4y ago
  A few years ago the Dutch government decided it wanted to make psylocibin mushroom illegal again. Only when they wrote the law they forgot one specific latin name of a mushroom containing psylocibin. Thus, the shops kept selling that specific mushroom and calling them truffles. I don't know why the shops started calling them truffles. Perhaps it was yet another way to get around the laws of selling mushrooms.
  • cr1895 4y ago
    That’s not quite accurate. It’s not a particular mushroom which they forgot to ban. They are sclerotia, and there are lots of varieties. I don’t know where the name truffle came about. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclerotium https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclerotium
• jl6 4y ago
  I’m one of those people who tried a dish that allegedly used truffle, and didn’t like it. I don’t recall getting any kind of gasoline smell though. If the deception is as far reaching as the article describes, I don’t fancy my chances of being able to locate any actual truffle-based dishes in the near future, if even fine-dining establishments are in on the scam. Someone could show me a truffle and I still wouldn’t know if it really was one.
• throwaway57371 4y ago
  The funny thing is, real truffles have a bit of a gasoline smell to them. At least the black and white truffles in the PNW. I’ve never tried the ultra high end Italian truffles. I did truffle hunting training with my dog when we lived in the PNW, we found truffles multiple times. Our head trainer used to give the other trainers the high end Italian truffles as a Christmas present. Personally, I don’t think truffle adds anything to a dish, the flavor is too strong.
• psychphysic 4y ago
  I read like 60% of the article and all I know is I'm a dumb arse who knows nothing about anything. Why not just write simply? What are you trying to tell me instead of calling me a buffoon over and over.
  • nnoitra 4y ago
  • Veen 4y ago
    It is a poorly organized rant that should have been about 1000 words shorter, but the point is one worth making. Truffle oil and most truffle-flavored foods have no truffles in them. They have an artificial truffle flavor called 2,4-dithiapentane, which is extracted from petroleum oil. If they do have truffle in them, it's cheap tasteless varieties and the flavor comes from the artificial truffle flavor. Most of the truffle-based food you buy in stores and restaurants is not really truffles.
    • jagged-chisel 4y ago
      > They have an artificial truffle flavor called 2,4-dithiapentane It's the same compound that's found in the truffle. We found somewhere else to extract it, but we don't make it from scratch. I suppose, then, truffles are just artificially flavored.
      • newZWhoDis 4y ago
        They say it’s the same, but I doubt it.
        • jagged-chisel 4y ago
          The snooty article author says it's the same. One would presume that if the compound was not the same, the author would be all over it and exclaiming that from the rooftops. As it stands, it's just an elitist article about the source of a compound that's either responsible for Terrific Truffles or Petroleum Pasta - author can't decide. edit: improve alliteration
• alxmng 4y ago
  I've never understood the popularity of truffle. If I had to rank mushrooms in preference of flavor, truffle isn't even top 10.
  • mdp2021 4y ago
    > the popularity Rarity, luck (they are underground), uniqueness and delicacy of taste.
  • zeroonetwothree 4y ago
    They are expensive so therefore they must taste good.
• anfractuosity 4y ago
  Interesting, I'd heard of truffle oil, but not that some truffles are flavourless. Thought this was pretty fascinating - https://www.theguardian.com/food/2022/jul/24/puzzle-of-prized-white-truffles-finally-yields-science-fungi https://www.theguardian.com/food/2022/jul/24/puzzle-of-prize... on the importance of particular trees in their growth.
  • mft_ 4y ago
    An Italian restaurant in a small German town nearby serves simple truffle pasta. I had it once and was disappointed - the truffles were shaved over the pasta, and it was relatively tasteless. I'd always assumed it was just because they were using cheap truffles --and from the infographic I'm sure they were-- but it's nice to know that at least they're serving the real thing and not resorting to fake flavourings. The strongly-flavoured 'truffle fries' I remember from trips to the US, not so much...
• ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  I've always despised the taste of "truffles." Maybe, one day, I will try the real thing.
• donatj 4y ago
  > Synthetic garbage sold as a luxury gourmet item gives customers the idea that truffles have an intense gas-like aroma. Huh, that’s my favorite part. It’s like the amazing smell of gasoline in an edible form. I wonder if I’d even like real truffles? I’ve got no hate for a flavor just for being synthetic, especially when getting the real flavor is destructive.
• giantg2 4y ago
  Time to grow your own and search for Appalachian truffles. https://trufflefarms.com/everything-to-know-about-truffle-trees/ https://trufflefarms.com/everything-to-know-about-truffle-tr... https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/environment/appalachian-truffle-hunters/ https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/environment/...
• harha 4y ago
  Truffle oil is the devil, even worse than overloading food with garlic or Sichuan pepper because on top of making all other tastes disappear for the rest of the meal, it also tastes like a high school chemistry project. Where I live it’s in everything (what is perceived as western that is), especially vegetarian, mushroom pasta, Parmesan French fries, salad, you name it. And most of the time the meals are either premade or they’re too inflexible to deviate just a tiny bit from what they offer.
  • MichaelZuo 4y ago
    Where do you live?
• gooseyman 4y ago
  I can’t help but think about whiskey’s history in America. Stuff was being sold as whiskey that was anything but i.e. gasoline. IIRC, The bottled in bond act was passed as the first consumer protection act. Basically whiskey was distilled, aged in a government warehouse, and (upon taxes paid) was bottled with a bonded seal that was meant to say to consumers “this is actual whiskey.” It also ensured the government got their taxes. I recognize consumers don’t actually get to buy the whole truffle and would still need to trust restaurants if a similar bonding system were in place. But an interesting precedent of food and marketing nonsense. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottled_in_bond https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottled_in_bond
• nemo44x 4y ago
  A simple pasta dish with a buttery sauce and a healthy portion of white winter truffle is simply divine. Truly the food of the gods. And damn expensive. But you will remember it.
• _yb2s 4y ago
  I don’t think this article is accurate. I went and checked the ingredients of some of my favorite truffle products, and every one of them has only real truffle, and no flavorings in the ingredients. For example the Marin French Cheese Truffle Brie sold all over the Bay Area: https://marinfrenchcheese.com/cheese-collections/truffle-brie/ https://marinfrenchcheese.com/cheese-collections/truffle-bri... Ingredients: Cultured Pasteurized Cow’s Milk, Pasteurized Cream, Truffles, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Truffle Juice, Salt, Natural Aroma, Microbial Enzymes No truffle oil or natural flavor. I suspect this article only applies to low quality stuff, but not everything is low quality. I suspect this is just like sourdough bread. Sure, sourdough at Walmart is just cheap white bread with vinegar added and tastes nothing like real sourdough. But you can get real sourdough almost anywhere if you pay a little more and know what to look for reading the label.
  • JohnFen 4y ago
    "Natural Aroma"
  • SargeDebian 4y ago
    Isn’t the “natural aroma” from your ingredient list exactly what the author means?
  • nAwYz 4y ago
    Doesn't the ingredient list contain "Natural Aroma" ?
  • bgia 4y ago
    But it does say “Natural Aroma” which the post claims is code for “fake truffle smell”. The list mentions “truffles” but they may very well be the type of truffles that has no flavor — with all the flavor coming from the “natural aroma”. I think you’re making the author’s point.
  • thebooktocome 4y ago
    The article points out that “natural aroma” is doing some heavy lifting. “The use of the so-called "natural aromas" is a particularly sneaky trick. The artificial flavoring most commonly used in truffle products is the petroleum derivative mentioned at the beginning of the text, meaning "natural aromas" are a marketing ploy to make you believe that the flavor was naturally derived from truffles. It was not, and God knows where it comes from, as no one is willing to reveal the information.” Real truffle is not shelf stable, the flavor degrades within a week.
• nomilk 4y ago
  > In Alba, Italy, this is done as follows: a dish arrives in front of you (you can smell it to make sure it doesn't have the artificial truffle aroma) together with a waiter with a scale. The waiter weighs the truffle and then grates the truffle on the dish until you say stop. After grating, the waiter will weigh the truffle again and charge you the difference. Good to hear a sensible solution was found.
  • kangalioo 4y ago
    I think this is ridiculous. The point of food should be to taste good, not for the eater to feel smug for having real expensive stuff on their plate. As long as my food is delicious, I don't care whether it has the expensive original ingredient or a cheap substitute.
    • mdp2021 4y ago
      > The point of food Oh my. The point of food is to be healthy.
      • istjohn 4y ago
        The utility of food has multiple dimensions for most people most of the time.
        • mdp2021 4y ago
          Sure. Which remains very far from an idea that "it is there to be tasty". No, it is there to be good.
    • nomilk 4y ago
      In general your idea is good: why use a costly resource when a more affordable one does just as good? But the author (glumly) counters this: so many consumers of truffle receive the substitute which isn't quite as good, and they think that's the true taste of truffles, but it isn't. So they walk away from the experience thinking they've experienced the taste of truffles, but they really haven't. If the truffle substitutes were exactly as good, then your point would hold, but in the case of truffles, at least according to the author, the substitutes don't have the same taste or aroma, or may be truffle but a less palatable species.
• edb_123 4y ago
  I'm a bit confused. Does this apply to absolutely all truffle oil? For years I have bought one particular type, which has the following list of ingredients: Extra virgin olive oil, 1% truffle juice from white truffle (Tuber Magnatum pico), 1% natural aroma, 1% truffle aroma. So it's supposed to contain both the real thing and truffle aroma. It costs like €11 for a 55 ml bottle. Is much of the flavour the taste of the real truffle it contains, or the truffle aroma that it also contains?
  • samatman 4y ago
    None of the taste you're experiencing is from truffles. The truffle piece and juice could be completely removed. Worse, they're almost certainly lying: there's probably not truffle juice at all. The oil? Probably mostly soybean.
• jagged-chisel 4y ago
  > what is sold as truffle flavor is 2,4-dithiapentane, an organosulfur compound that is naturally found in truffles and > it can be extracted from oil. [...] Liters of this petroleum-derived product, the colorless 2,4-dithiapentane liquid, are sourced for a few euros... We've discussed this in chemistry classes. The compound is the compound. Why does it matter where it's sourced? Anyone who's heard about the rarity of Actual Truffles can reason out that they can't possibly be squeezing enough "truffle oil" from Proper Truffles to supply the world. They're obviously recreating something. So they identified the tasty (smelly?) chemical that identifies with Real Truffles, and source it elsewhere. It reminds me of the every-decade story about how Twinkies are made, and the myriad of scary chemicals in them. The recipe has changed a bit over the years (actually getting safer...) and the last article I read on the subject was all "OMG THEY ARE USING INDUSTRIAL CLEANER IN TWINKIES" then continued to have a food scientist explain that they discovered the Actual Food ingredient cleaned better than the Chemical Cleaner, so switched from Chemical Cleaner to Actual Food Ingredient Cleaner.
  • Mistletoe 4y ago
    It matters because I’m sure there are other compounds in truffles that make the flavor well rounded and unique. The same way watermelon and grape and blueberry flavor in candy don’t really taste anything at all like the real thing.
    • phil21 4y ago
      Absolutely. I always thought I hated truffles until I was more or less forced into trying a few dishes while visiting Italy. Real truffles taste almost nothing like the fake truffle flavor you seem to get in most dishes. I think you made a great comparison to fake watermelon flavor vs. the real thing. It's only in the vague ballpark. I now will have a truffle dish if it's done at a very high end establishment that deals with those ingredients on a consistent basis. I still absolutely cannot stand the fake stuff (like truffle fries) to this day.
    • icambron 4y ago
      The article definitely conflates these ideas: 1. there are real truffles that in his opinion are much better than the artificial flavor (fair) 2. the food industry is deceptive about real vs artificial truffle flavor (fair) 3. the artificial flavor is harmful because it is derived from petroleum (silly) The problem with the article is that 1 is interesting but just, like, your opinion man, and also like a thousand dollars. And 2 is business as usual. So if you want people not to just say “Sure, but I personally really like artificial truffle flavor” (which I did, several times, while reading) you need to convince them there’s something sinister about it that there isn’t about, say, artificial watermelon flavor. But 3 is a huge miss.
• sph 4y ago
  > If you find the smell of restaurants' truffle dishes foul, it does not mean that you do not like truffles; it could indicate that you have good taste and do not like petroleum on your plate. Holy shit I'm vindicated. People never believed me when I said truffles smell like petrol to me, so I don't get the hype.
  • nobodyandproud 4y ago
    You could be a so-called “supertaster”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster It definitely tastes off for me, but I can tolerate synthetic tastes. My kid, however, I suspect is a supertaster and absolutely hates cilantro and also truffle oil. It thankfully nipped the truffle oil obsession that my wife had a couple of years back. Edit: That stuff is still in the refrigerator.
    • sph 4y ago
      Yeah I hate cilantro as well, tastes like dish soap to me. I don't know if I'm a supertaster though, I've always thought my sense of smell and taste to be below average.
      • nobodyandproud 4y ago
        Our sense of taste is wonderfully varied: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-20640337 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-20640337 I imagine what’s happening is that the signal of bitterness overrides any other tastes and flavors. Sort of like trying to listen for whispers in the midst of a concert. I enjoy coffee for example and savor it like wine at times; chewing and getting the aroma into my nostrils. However it took a very long time for me to get used to and ignore the bitter and toasted flavors to even notice the complex flavors in a cup of quality black coffee.
    • Nursie 4y ago
      The only evidence I can find on the cilantro thing is actually that people who react badly to it can’t taste the good bit that the rest of us can. There’s a 2008 NPR article about putting it through a gas chromatograph that’s an interesting read.
• thiht 4y ago
  I always see Americans laughing when we French insist champagne is not champagne if it's not from the Champagne region. This is exactly the reason why we're pedantic about naming food products. Food products suck in the USA because naming doesn't seem to matter. Your parmesan is not parmesan, your champagne is not champagne, and now your truffle oil doesn't contain truffles. You might also want to check whether it's oil.
  • Nursie 4y ago
    Unfortunately with truffle oil this is a problem everywhere. The aromatic compound referred to as “truffle flavour” or “truffle aroma” is so cheap and so ubiquitous it is hard to find a truffle oil without it, and the industry hides it behind these ambiguous descriptions. Perhaps this is not a problem in France, but in Australia it is the same. And AFAICT any truffle oil that lists any ingredient other than ‘oil, truffles’ has had this additive inserted in lieu of using enough truffles to flavour the oil. Many brands even try to disguise this by adding some small pieces of truffle.
• breakbread 4y ago
  Years ago, my wife and I were in Rome and blindly walked into some restaurant with “taverna” in the name. We were thinking of Greece and just assumed ~$$. Boy were we wrong. When we opened the menu we saw quail eggs with white truffles from Alba for like 1300 euros!
• kyledrake 4y ago
  The solution to this is probably technology. We need the ability to farm truffles on a large scale, which will bring down their price. Until then, expecting imperfect substitutes is reasonable to me. I actually enjoy the taste of truffle oil (especially on fries) and don't like spending enormous amounts of money on food, so it's a pretty reasonable compromise to me. I was planning to order some truffles sometime and make a few things with them and it's entirely plausible that I will prefer the synthetic version to the real thing.
  • paulcole 4y ago
    > The solution to this is probably technology This is HN in a nutshell. When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail. Maybe this isn’t even a situation that needs to be solved?
    • kyledrake 4y ago
      That's a straw man, there are many things I don't think technology can achieve. Food scarcity is one of the first, classic things human technology has improved through agriculture, and it's reasonable to think it will do the same thing to the high cost of truffles, and indeed the demand will incentivize people to try and reward those that finally succeed at it. If that's bad, then my question is why should truffles be expensive forever?
  • foolfoolz 4y ago
    there’s a company trying to do that https://www.americantruffle.com/ https://www.americantruffle.com/
• efficax 4y ago
  eh, sure it’s fake, and of course it is, truffles are too rare and expensive to show up at the supermarket or on the shake shack menu. but good truffle essence is a complex melange of flavor compounds and not just 2,4-dithiapentane which provides the musky fungal base but none of the sweetness and spice that you also find in a good truffle “essence “. anyway yes if you’re paying less than $100 for the dish it’s probably not real italian white truffle
• tristor 4y ago
  I only eat truffles in Michelin star restaurants in the US, it’s truly ridiculous how out if control food quality and legitimacy is in the US. Here if you find truffle oil it’s basically guaranteed to contain no (or minimal) real truffle, and the oil may not even be real olive oil. You can get fantastic high quality food in the US, but it’s few and far between with a very high cost compared to average quality in Europe.
• airbreather 4y ago
  I used to grow my own in Australia, as a hobby, patience is the hardest part really. 5-7 years after planting seems to be needed. At one stage I was the northern most producer of truffles (very few produced actually but I only had 40 trees and didn't really look after them to the utmost detail) in the southern hemisphere, then a guy 150km further north, and in soil that was near total sand, got some to grow. This was totally unexpected. It seems the conditions required are not quite so special as thought, and some totally unsuited conditions (as previously thought) might be good due to reduced competition from other fungi. The action of inoculating trees is simple as well, get a ripe couple of real truffles, blender them up and pour it over the small saplings in pots, if the mycorrhizal sets in you can see it as white bits on the roots. (I think you need two, but not even sure on that). A wide range of trees will work, oak, hazel, cork to name a few. There is a preferred pH range for the soil, as would be expected for all fungi pH has a strong role to play. There has been a lot of secrecy enshrouding the whole game for a long time. I refer only to Tuber melanosporum in the above, I am not sure anyone has been able to get the white truffles growing out of the wild, there will be some special condition or symbiosis with an animal or something that is needed, but not understood yet.
  • deebosong 4y ago
    "There has been a lot of secrecy enshrouding the whole game for a long time." Now I'm imagining a Truffle Mafia/ Mushroom Cartel, with mushroom goon squads, fungi warehouses, and done up in gaudy suits & ostentatious furs.
    • rcpt 4y ago
      This kind of happens in Pig with Nicholas Cage
    • slindz 4y ago
      They touched on such ideas in Nic Cage's movie 'Pig'. It was a surprisingly decent flick.
      • UncleOxidant 4y ago
• i_am_toaster 4y ago
  Article has some good information but dragged out the start. Also there was too much pointed bashing of the fake truffle aroma. I actually think this would have read more honest if the opinions were left out, or at least not written in a declarative tone.
  • zmxz 4y ago
    Agreed. The whole article could have been condensed to a paragraph.
• 1MachineElf 4y ago
  Truffle-like umami flavor is also had from sesame oil, which is sold in even greater quantities in many Asian grocery stores. Reading about the chemistry of artificial truffle oil makes me wonder how much "sesame oil" is affected by these types of scams.
  • yunwal 4y ago
    You can get good quality sesame oil for like $4 a pint, so I doubt there’d be much incentive for a scam.
• Cupertino95014 4y ago
  I foolishly bought some "truffle salt." I couldn't even find it the other day when I was looking, which probably tells you how much I was impressed with it.
• Tao3300 4y ago
  > Some will compare the difference between the natural flavor of truffles and the artificial truffle flavor with the difference between sex and sniffing dirty panties. [insert two quotes from celebs who aren't saying that] I don't know, man. This seems more like it's your dirty panties analogy than something "some [people] will [say]".
• AlbertCory 4y ago
  In Oregon & Washington, there are "truffle dog classes." They teach the dog how to sniff out whatever they call "truffles" up there. (Maybe someone who knows the species can tell us what they are.) I'm pretty sure my dog would be great at this, but then he would be worth stealing. Ergo, I'm not doing it. Aside from the fact that it would be a 10-hour drive for me.
  • titanomachy 4y ago
    “I'm pretty sure my dog would be great at this, but then he would be worth stealing. Ergo, I'm not doing it.” Is this really how dog owners think? I’d better not teach my dog valuable skills because then someone will steal him?
    • AlbertCory 4y ago
      I can't speak for other dog owners. I guess you have a problem with this? There are shitty people in the world. They'll steal the catalytic converter right off your Prius. And yes, dogs do get stolen: https://frenchbulldog.nyc/french-bulldog-theft/ https://frenchbulldog.nyc/french-bulldog-theft/
    • chihuahua 4y ago
      I'm not sure how potential truffle dog thieves would be able to tell that a dog is good at finding truffles during the 364 days a year where the dog is not searching for truffles. Or how they would steal the dog while the owner is walking around with it in the forest during the 1 day a year where they are searching for truffles.
• birdyrooster 4y ago
  Truffle oil tastes good, it’s not that expensive and I don’t care if it’s real
• gorgoiler 4y ago
  There used to be a place in London’s Borough Market that would sell you half a truffle in a jam jar for a tenner. Best gourmet treat I’ve ever bought, and as authentic as it gets.
• alasdair_ 4y ago
  The bit about storage not being possible was something I wish I knew a year ago. We went to a fine dinning restaurant and bought a good-sized whole white winter truffle for the table that was shaved on to various dishes over the evening. At the end of the night we still had most of it left, so I put it in the fridge, thinking I could use it again in a couple of weeks. Expensive mistake. It was total garbage.
• VieEnCode 4y ago
  I highly recommend this beautifully filmed BBC documentary about the lives of a few ageing truffle hunters and their trusty dogs in northern Italy: Storyville: The truffle hunters https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0016489/storyville-the-truffle-hunters https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0016489/storyville-th...
• mistercow 4y ago
  I find it very frustrating that authors so often want to engage with this on this status-motivated "cheap is bad and you shouldn't like it" level. It takes this author a long time to get to "if you like it, that's fine", after we've been told that it smells like gasoline, that supposed "experts" in our own personal taste have told us that it doesn't belong in our kitchen, and that it's made of spooky petroleum products. Yes, food should be accurately labeled, and I'll take the author's word for it that the imitation stuff is not very close to the real thing in flavor. Sure. Those are fine points. Stick to those, and stop implying that if I like the stuff I like, I'm some sort of slop-eating prole. You can argue for truth in advertising without appealing to classism.
  • NotYourLawyer 4y ago
    Agreed. And the whole “derived from petroleum” == “tastes like gasoline” thing is so dumb. Pretty much every chemical we make comes from petroleum feedstock. Most of them don’t taste much like gasoline.
    • s0rce 4y ago
      I don't think the sulfur containing 2,4-dithiapentane that is used in simulated "truffle" even smells like gasoline regardless of its similar origin, gasoline smells like other alkanes in the lab (hexanes, etc), not really sure how to describe it but not like sulfur containing compounds. I still don't like the truffle flavoring compound in my food, its overpowering to me, but if you like it go for it! Synthetic vanillin is delicious.
• epgui 4y ago
  One thing that drives me nuts here is people who think chemicals derived from a “natural” source are somehow preferable from chemicals derived from petrol or synthesized de novo. The concept of a chemical is that you cannot possibly distinguish them. Why fake truffle oil tastes different than the prized truffles has nothing to do with the fact it may have been synthesized from oil (which is totally okay), and everything to do with the fact that the real deal’s taste comes from a bouquet of many different chemicals, only part of which is represented in the cheaper synthetic stuff.
• SergeAx 4y ago
  Strawberry shampoo have nothing common with real strawberry. I think it will be safe to bet on the same situation with banana chewing gum. Will we make cases out of it, or we are not interested because it's too cheap to be bothered about?
• Maursault 4y ago
  > While some are sensational, complex, and cost ten thousand euros per kilo, others are merely decorative, tasteless, and worthless tubers. > There is also the notorious tuber indicum, the Chinese black truffle, which has flooded the European and American market. Maybe this is common in truffle circles, maybe it's a joke, but truffles are not tubers, even when speaking of multiple species. While the word "genus" can be pluralized, actual genera are always singular. You would never try what the author did there with "Homo sapiens," which may appear plural but is always a singular genus species. Tubers are storage organs in some plants used to provide energy through winter and for growth the following season. Truffles are fruiting bodies of the fungus of genus Tuber. Like all genera, Tuber can not be pluralized and is always capitalized.
• wentin 4y ago
  I met someone at a french conference who told me that their latest foodie experience at a truffle house was that "They can't taste the truffle". They can see it is truffle, but it just doesn't taste anything they associate with truffle. I was no truffle expert then, and didn't have anything to add to the conversation, so I just shrug it off. This article reminded me of that conversation. Restaurants who are honest are punished by this scam.
• massenpunkt 4y ago
  There's an interesting documentary on ARTE about illegal truffle harvesting in Romania: https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/100299-004-A/re-truffle-traffick-in-romania/ https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/100299-004-A/re-truffle-traffi...
• campers 4y ago
  I had to go look at the ingredients of the two truffle products I have. A housemate got some truffle salt a little while ago and I was quite enjoying the flavour of that, so I bought some truffle-infused olive oil from the supermarket. The truffle salt does say it has actual truffle from a town nearby (well 250km is nearby in Western Australia) known to have a truffle industry that grows Black truffles (Tuber melanosporum). As for that particular olive oil, I don't think I'l be paying the premium for "Truffle Oil Flavour" again.
• thenoblesunfish 4y ago
  Fwiw it's worth I kinda like that petroleum stank fake truffle flavour. I don't think that when I had that on a pizza costing 20 dollars that I was getting some kind of a deal on whatever "real" truffles are. It's annoying when people market A as B, of course, but on the other hand I get the impression that what a lot of people really like about truffles is that they are expensive and rare, not what they taste like.