6 ms·

Seven Levels of Busy

306 points by kiyanwang 4y ago

JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Prioritize your work by importance, not urgency. Work only on the first item on the list until it's done.
edw519 4y ago
When I'm working for someone else, I'm usually around Level 4. Most difficulties are details I know don't really matter like dealing with others, especially meetings and calls. I stay on top of them, but I'd prefer to never have to deal with them, taking time away from what's really important. When I'm building something for myself, I'm almost always at Level 2. At Level 1, I never finish anything. At Levels 3 and above, I never seem to find the time to dig deep enough to build it good enough. I honestly believe that the greatest stuff can get built at Level 2, which I've always thought of as the "Baby Bear Level", not too hot, not too cold, just right. I don't think I've ever allowed myself to get above Level 4. My father and all my uncles seemed to be around Level 6 or Level 7 their whole lives at work to make a couple more bucks. They all worked themselves to death. I vowed I would never do that. Sure, I could have done more and earned more, but I kept my promise to myself. I'm taking a little break for this HN visit, but the results of what I was working on before look good and I'm excited to move on. No immediate deadline. Loose schedule. Going to have a ball getting 5 or 6 things done today. For me, this is the only way to work.
thenerdhead 4y ago
I believe that being busy is a myth. It's one that we all fall prey to and end up accomplishing nothing because of it. Like any system, you need enough slack. That slack makes you resilient over the long term. It gives you what you value in life. Autonomy, relatedness, and competence to whatever you set your goals towards. I hate the mentality of "if it's not in a calendar, it's not happening" because this is the opposite of slack. There's a beauty in serendipity when it comes to not being busy. It opens more doors than closes them in my experience. I would argue that the optimal level is negative in that you're not "busy" by the definition, but you are tackling your top goal until it is accomplished and then to the next one. You won't even make a dent in it if you're constantly distracted by small immediate things. You have to learn to set boundaries and say no. It's the only way things actually get done.
- astral303 4y ago
  There’s a great book by Tom DeMarco that argues for having slack, and for that being critical for innovation: “Slack: Getting Past Burnout, Busywork, and the Myth of Total Efficiency”
  - thenerdhead 4y ago
    Thanks for the recommendation! I'll add it to my book list. Would love to dive much deeper into this idea but have only found a few books thus far that barely touch the subject.
- RajT88 4y ago
  If you are wall-to-wall with meetings, any follow up items which require concentration have to necessarily take place after your work day. I have been the top level of busy before, where I have work day full of meetings, and then a work day of actual work after all the meetings.
- lob_it 4y ago
  Technology added the phrases "set it and forget it" and "one and done". Analog (some) can chase their tail and consider that busy while innovation is onto the next goal.
- iamthirsty 4y ago
  So you don't think someone like, I don't know, the President of the United States is not actually a busy person? (At level 7)
  - sweuder 4y ago
    If the president is at Level 7 then it is an utter failure of their administration. Whatever the president's busy level is, it needs to be something that can be kept up with for years at a time without breaking down. They've got whole branches of government at their disposal to delegate tasks. I'd imagine the president's staffers try and keep it at or below a 4 90% of the time.
  - 4y ago
vegetablepotpie 4y ago
I like that he describes it as levels, and that there are hints of objective measures for each level. If this were adopted in organizations, it would be a useful tool for management to assess who needs the most help. The common through line is how much stuff is getting dropped, and how much control do you have on what work you take on. There are some context dependent things that tells me this is written from the perspective of someone who works in an office, such as “Work hours spill into life hours.” and “It is clear by how I walk how busy I am.” There are some undefined aspects, for example, I’m at level 2 when I have tasks that “are reasonable, knowable, and not deadline-based.” What level am I at when I have at-least one deadline based task. If I’m on a scrum team, and everything needs to be done by the end of the sprint, does level 1 & 2 not exist and everyone starts at level 3? I would love to be able to point to something like this. I see three books on this authors website, if it’s in any of these books I’d like to ask people in my office “have you read x? There’s an idea in there about y that I think you’d be interested in.”
- 1123581321 4y ago
  I've read his management book and I don't remember anything as easy to use as this scale. 7 Habits is a classic self-help book that would accomplish some of this. Although, it approaches the problem of business indirectly with concepts like degree of control vs. degree of concern. It also suggests principles that an overly busy person cannot follow, but never connects the dots by explicitly saying "you're too busy." Another one to look at comes from R&D management: Principles of Product Development Flow. The first couple chapters, especially, explain the problems of trying to maintain a full schedule (queueing theory.) I would probably make a resource based on the book rather than just handing someone a copy, unless you know they'd not be intimidated by it. https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Product-Development-Flow-Generation/dp/1935401009 https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Product-Development-Flow-G...
andsoitis 4y ago
"For every parcel I stoop down to seize I lose some other off my arms and knees, And the whole pile is slipping, bottles, buns -- Extremes too hard to comprehend at once, Yet nothing I should care to leave behind. With all I have to hold with hand and mind And heart, if need be, I will do my best To keep their building balanced at my breast. I crouch down to prevent them as they fall; Then sit down in the middle of them all. I had to drop the armful in the road And try to stack them in a better load." --- Robert Frost
- seanhunter 4y ago
  Little known fact: Robert Frost wrote this after playing "Death Stranding".
  - mjrbrennan 4y ago
    I had no idea he wrote the first Strand-type poem.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  Sounds like my ADHD.
- evancoop 4y ago
  These pings annoy me, night and day, Incessant asks without delay, And lines to code to earn my pay... And lines to code to earn my pay.
  - a_e_k 4y ago
    Two branches diverged in a Git repo...
    - evancoop 4y ago
      And sorry I could not pull them both / And build one module, long I sat ...
    - xerox13ster 4y ago
jll29 4y ago
Many companies, and certainly some people I know, are keeping busy and confuse "operationally busy" with "successful". Most people that are too busy stop thinking strategically, and instead restrict all their energy and attention to short-term firefighting. Rapidly-changing diaries are problematic already at much lower levels than "business level 7"... they also interfere with your own ability to plan your day.
mv4 4y ago
Being busy feels entirely different when you are in charge. If, however, your calendar is controlled by other people...
klyrs 4y ago
After years of burnout, my psyche rewrote 6 to prevent 7. When I get to that point, my subconscious rebels and I stare into the depths of the void rather than work. My conscious mind notices this behavior, I tell everybody what's happening and I cancel or indefinitely delay everything except for literal life and death. I take a few days off, then set a goal of one focused task a day. If that only takes an hour, that's fine, I did the task. Gradually I increase the load, but I know from repeated burnout cycles that impatience will deepen the wound.
- feoren 4y ago
  > a goal of one focused task a day. If that only takes an hour, that's fine, I did the task. It's a rare privilege to be able to rebalance your own workload like that. As a consultant, I have some ability to do this, but if I accomplish one focused task that takes an hour one day, I only get paid for one hour that day. I cannot make myself less busy without literally lowering my pay.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    It is. I'm an established researcher, and my coworkers see the lead-up to the crash -- at levels 3-5, I'm over-producing enough to keep folks busy through the lull. I know that my productivity has peaks and troughs, and when I'm on fire it's difficult to hold back (ADHD life-hack: doing what you love risks detrimental hyperfocus). But, as a researcher, when I'm doing my job, I'm not unblocking issues; I'm creating work for others months to years down the road. Supporting that work (this is where I can be a blocker) is often very low-touch and high-reward so that's what I focus on in the down-times. If I was an hourly contractor, I'd be billing for those extra hours in the hopes that I could cover myself after a crash. But I'm not sure that contract research is a thing. And... have you considered billing by the day? I've never been a contractor but I've heard it's a thing. But... it's not like I have a choice in the matter. I've forced myself to work through burnout for literally years at a time, and now that part of me is broken forever. That's what "unsustainable" means. I will eventually quit tech, or move on to management, when the time comes. If you cannot find slack and your busyness is frequently hitting 5-7, breakdowns will occur. If you can't recover without going broke, you haven't found a sustainable balance. Again, not a contractor, but the advice I've heard from contractors is to charge more.
warner25 4y ago
I know this is supposed to be about "work" instead of "life," but I'm trying to decide which one is the baseline level as a parent of several children. I'm thinking Level 4, but maybe Level 5. When my kids ask if / when we can go somewhere special or do some project together, I frequently find myself just shaking my head and saying that I can't answer for anything beyond the next couple of hours, because I need to coordinate with mom and all their siblings' schedules, and because I don't know who's going to get sick or have a tantrum that derails our plans, etc. When my wife or I go down with illness or injury ourselves, it immediately goes to Level 6 or 7 for the remaining parent.
deleted 4y ago
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aflukasz 4y ago
Somewhat related: Oliver Burkeman has some interesting thoughts about time management and how people have this tendencies to schedule too much as a coping mechanism to deny their limitations around the time they have and how much they can accomplish given their constraints. I didn't read any of his books, but heard him on Sam Harris' podcast/app and found his take interesting and stimulating reflection about my own behaviors. Certainly worth looking up, if you believe you might be affected by similar phenomenon.
- obruchez 4y ago
  I've read Burkeman's book and heard him on Sam Harris' podcast and app (Waking Up). A lot of people would benefit from his ideas. The core idea being: we think that we need just "a little more time" or "just another productivity hack" to be on top of things, but this is the wrong way to approach things. Creative people will always have too many projects/tasks on their to-do list.
phtrivier 4y ago
So... What ? I've yet to find myself in a position where I was wondering on which level of such a scale I am. The only interesting question is "I'm perpetually at one of the last two or three stages, how do I go down the scale ?" (Ironically, reading HN is one of the things _not_ to do.)
GCA10 4y ago
I'll offer a companion scale that speaks to when/how we declare stuff done and ship it. A. Levels 1 and 2. I ship stuff when it's as excellent and finished as I can possibly make it. B. Levels 3 and 4. I'm too busy to get every last detail tidied up, but when I ship stuff, it's 90% of what I wanted it to be. I don't always nail the deadline 100%, but on both quality and timeliness, I'm respected and seen as someone who doesn't let the team down. I secretly like peeling away when it's almost done, because there's usually something more valuable and exciting coming next. C. Level 5. I'm very erratic. On a few key projects, I'm still shipping in a pretty dependable way. But the amount of half-done stuff in my mental attic is scary. I've still got the willpower and credibility every now and then to offload/kill the most hopeless projects, and that gives me a bit of a reprieve. D. Levels 6 and 7. I don't have a coherent approach to shipping. Incomplete work leaves my control when someone else seizes it from me. There's a ton of stuff that's half-done that I may never have time to revisit. I'm too tired to sort out anything -- or put up a fight.
agumonkey 4y ago
Pretty useful for my own use. I realize that I hate living above triage-hard level. Thanks
kortheo 4y ago
I find this a useful framework for thinking about busy-ness. I'm someone who skews towards feeling over-responsible for things, has a hard time saying 'No', etc. Comments here are making me realize that not everyone is like this and that maybe a better workload balance is possible. Does anyone have suggestions for books, articles, etc that have helped you improve your workload management and set boundaries regarding projects, ask for help when you're overloaded, etc? I often feel like I'm just at the mercy of what is put on my plate by other people.
- teach 4y ago
  I'm not such a person myself but I hear "The Art Of Saying NO" by Zahariades is pretty good. Not quite the same topic but I've also heard good things about "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck" by Manson
  - kortheo 4y ago
    That looks promising, thank you!
surfsvammel 4y ago
This makes me thankful. I realise that I am leading a very balanced life today. There was a time when I was completely overworked. A short project, but it was devastating. It was stressful for everyone involved, but mostly so for me and a colleague of mine. I was in my early thirties and she in her early sixties. We worked day and night, taking taxis to and from work, to get home, for 4 hours of sleep. She came out of the period unscathed, no problem at all while I developed claustrophobia, insomnia, paranoia and depression. Those went away, after some time, within a year or so. But I, to this day, think that I dodged a bullet. It could’ve gone so much worse. One big learning, or realisation, that I had, from that experience, was that taking one of those self tests, showed all the signs of being over worked and stressed. But. I didn’t feel stressed. That was the killer. I didn’t feel stressed, and so I kept going thinking ‘I guess those tests/signs apparently don’t apply to me’. Never again.
krallja 4y ago
What's it called when your brain skips straight from level 2 to level 7? Asking for a friend, who is myself.
xwowsersx 4y ago
I'm at a Level 6 :(
blitzar 4y ago
Level 0: Bullshit busy. How's it going? So busy. When you have that conversation the level they are refering to is Level 0.
sublinear 4y ago
Why break it up into levels? You schedule time and stick to it. All unscheduled time is considered busy. No interruptions. Deal with it.
- DharmaPolice 4y ago
  What % of employees do you think are in a position where they can just blanket refuse all interruptions?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Maxburn 4y ago
    Seriously, as a tech lead I take a lot of calls for help/advice from junior techs up through senior leadership. Cut all that off and see how long I still have a job. I encourage use of "asynchronous" communication like txt and email and letting calls go to voicemail. Key item is to actually follow up on those things several times a day. I've taken to coming in at 6AM and getting things done before the 8AM flood hits. Second flood happens during lunch. Not much during the end of the day so generally off at 4 which is nice.
    - sublinear 4y ago
      Preferring async communication and advising people to prepare before attending scheduled meetings is what I was suggesting, yeah. Everyone needs to be at the same level of organization and agree upon what topics are and aren't relevant for each meeting. This is the flip side of work from home culture. You have to have your shit together. No excuses.
    - dopidopHN 4y ago
      > Cut all that off and see how long I still have a job Don’t cut it. Ask if it’s urgent. If not, say you can come to it in X amount of time. If the person is junior or insisting, tell them the laundry list of questions you will have to get context. And ask if they did all that research already. It has the double nice effect of motivating people to diagnose their stuff better. And usually once you are free, the stuff is solved. I tend to avoid tech lead position now but I hold many and it went well. Setting boundaries works !
revskill 4y ago
Ahh, i've seen my friends busy debugging and manual testing their code throughout the day.
Pelam 4y ago
I'd say anything beyond level 3 is likely already unsustainable for longer periods if you want to avoid stress related ilnesses. Depends on other factors of course.
- Rygian 4y ago
  Indeed. The post neglects to mention at which Level one would start saying "No." And I argue it should be Level 3, to avoid going to Level 4. If I found myself in Level 5, 6, or 7 the only explanation I would find is that I've very badly mismanaged my time for too long.
dspillett 4y ago
This applies to trying to do too much in non-working hours as well as conflict between the two. I feel I'm at 5 and have been for a while in terms of not having time for everything I've decided to do (particularly the things I've told others I will do) and I'm too belligerent to let things drop. I perhaps must do something about this!
- jasperry 4y ago
  The trick is to become more and more resentful about how you are being used until that feeling is stronger than the stubbornness that won't let things drop. ;)
  - dspillett 4y ago
    One of my key issues is being (sorry for the technical medical terminology here) a bit of a manic depressive fuckwit. Manic me gets big ideas & plans things, and being all excitable he tells everyone about said intentions so that the rest of me then feels the need to find a way of making happen! I do it to myself more than there being other people to be resentful of.
pizzaknife 4y ago
Id offer that simple vocabulary we use in "agile" is indicative of why we even reach stages above 3. I offer the use of the term "sprint" as evidence.
- ttyyzz 4y ago
  you can use agile in a good way here - say you are a dev and somebody wants something from you. your schedule is set, all the tasks for the sprint have been planned and you commited to doing them. you can just say "i have not time for that but you could try to to talk to the PO. the product owner could adjust the prioritization for the next sprint accordingly.." Working at the shout of other people tends to damage you and the company in the long term (If you are building things and have to maintain them). I understand that not everyone is a developer and this example does not fit every role. Likewise, an "agile" way of working should not be used for every job.
- kybernetikos 4y ago
  It is very odd that the two week cadence gets referred to as a sprint. Sprints are definitionally not done at a speed that can be kept up for a long period of time, yet we expect our teams to 'sprint' unendingly.
  - Sakos 4y ago
    That's an interesting take. Are sprints sustainable?
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    Yet they are sprints by definition. There is no pause to evaluate the work, fix past mistakes, globally plan the system, understand how it will fit when applied. Scrum only has the part when you get your head down and code. Finished it? Good, let's see what is the next task, get our heads down and code again. "Sprint" is a very apt name. (Of course, that is because the activities that actually bring product quality got somebody specialized on them. You can't find a best portrait of the Western management culture looking at management, disenfranchise the workers that actually know how to do things, bring somebody with no skin on the game and plenty of conflicting interests to make all the decisions.)
jasperry 4y ago
I was surprised that even at level 5 it still says "stuff isn't getting dropped." Might I suggest starting to drop stuff well before that level? Yes, on purpose. It can even help you find out what's really important and who actually is relying on you to do all that stuff. Overall, this sounds like it was posted by a person with an over-active sense of responsibility, which I can relate to all too well...
- ajb 4y ago
  Yes, it's well observed, but the fact that only the top level is considered 'unsustainable' is an issue - level 4 is already sub-optimal as there is no margin. And there are 3 levels above that.
- nuclearnice1 4y ago
  I agree with the sentiment. From the text I think he draws a distinction between consciously deciding not to do something and missing it entirely. Level 5 allows consciously dropping — saying “I’m sorry [can’t do it] a lot” Level 6 - you aren’t seeing everything and they are getting dropped WITHOUT intent. “Just saying “No” to inbound things is not enough.” As an aside, guidelines violating clickbait number title? “The Seven Levels of Busy”
  - scott_w 4y ago
    It’s not clickbait because it gives you what it promises you
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    As someone who's work days are always level 5, and occasionally level 6, I think that transition (5 to 6) is the point where you absolutely need to ask for help. 6 inevitably leads to 7 if uncorrected. At many workplaces, it's totally OK to drop things deliberately. I've been told by managers that [Company] deliberately loads you with more than you can do and expects you to make the right judgment calls. It's even sometimes OK to drop them by accident as long as you know they are being dropped and communicate the droppage after the fact. When you start dropping things and don't even know you're dropping them, that's usually where it starts becoming a problem for the organization and where it starts coming up in performance reviews.
mgrassotti 4y ago
There are higher levels
- jamesgreenleaf 4y ago
  If Level 7 is minute to minute, then Level 8 must be something like a combat or survival situation in which every split-second matters. What's beyond that? Eldritch horrors?
  - blitzar 4y ago
    If you go beyond 7 it loops back to level 1.

306 points by kiyanwang 4y ago

Prioritize your work by importance, not urgency. Work only on the first item on the list until it's done.

When I'm working for someone else, I'm usually around Level 4. Most difficulties are details I know don't really matter like dealing with others, especially meetings and calls. I stay on top of them, but I'd prefer to never have to deal with them, taking time away from what's really important. When I'm building something for myself, I'm almost always at Level 2. At Level 1, I never finish anything. At Levels 3 and above, I never seem to find the time to dig deep enough to build it good enough. I honestly believe that the greatest stuff can get built at Level 2, which I've always thought of as the "Baby Bear Level", not too hot, not too cold, just right. I don't think I've ever allowed myself to get above Level 4. My father and all my uncles seemed to be around Level 6 or Level 7 their whole lives at work to make a couple more bucks. They all worked themselves to death. I vowed I would never do that. Sure, I could have done more and earned more, but I kept my promise to myself. I'm taking a little break for this HN visit, but the results of what I was working on before look good and I'm excited to move on. No immediate deadline. Loose schedule. Going to have a ball getting 5 or 6 things done today. For me, this is the only way to work.

thenerdhead 4y ago

I believe that being busy is a myth. It's one that we all fall prey to and end up accomplishing nothing because of it. Like any system, you need enough slack. That slack makes you resilient over the long term. It gives you what you value in life. Autonomy, relatedness, and competence to whatever you set your goals towards. I hate the mentality of "if it's not in a calendar, it's not happening" because this is the opposite of slack. There's a beauty in serendipity when it comes to not being busy. It opens more doors than closes them in my experience. I would argue that the optimal level is negative in that you're not "busy" by the definition, but you are tackling your top goal until it is accomplished and then to the next one. You won't even make a dent in it if you're constantly distracted by small immediate things. You have to learn to set boundaries and say no. It's the only way things actually get done.

astral303 4y ago
There’s a great book by Tom DeMarco that argues for having slack, and for that being critical for innovation: “Slack: Getting Past Burnout, Busywork, and the Myth of Total Efficiency”
- thenerdhead 4y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation! I'll add it to my book list. Would love to dive much deeper into this idea but have only found a few books thus far that barely touch the subject.
RajT88 4y ago
If you are wall-to-wall with meetings, any follow up items which require concentration have to necessarily take place after your work day. I have been the top level of busy before, where I have work day full of meetings, and then a work day of actual work after all the meetings.
lob_it 4y ago
Technology added the phrases "set it and forget it" and "one and done". Analog (some) can chase their tail and consider that busy while innovation is onto the next goal.
iamthirsty 4y ago
So you don't think someone like, I don't know, the President of the United States is not actually a busy person? (At level 7)
- sweuder 4y ago
  If the president is at Level 7 then it is an utter failure of their administration. Whatever the president's busy level is, it needs to be something that can be kept up with for years at a time without breaking down. They've got whole branches of government at their disposal to delegate tasks. I'd imagine the president's staffers try and keep it at or below a 4 90% of the time.
- 4y ago

vegetablepotpie 4y ago

I like that he describes it as levels, and that there are hints of objective measures for each level. If this were adopted in organizations, it would be a useful tool for management to assess who needs the most help. The common through line is how much stuff is getting dropped, and how much control do you have on what work you take on. There are some context dependent things that tells me this is written from the perspective of someone who works in an office, such as “Work hours spill into life hours.” and “It is clear by how I walk how busy I am.” There are some undefined aspects, for example, I’m at level 2 when I have tasks that “are reasonable, knowable, and not deadline-based.” What level am I at when I have at-least one deadline based task. If I’m on a scrum team, and everything needs to be done by the end of the sprint, does level 1 & 2 not exist and everyone starts at level 3? I would love to be able to point to something like this. I see three books on this authors website, if it’s in any of these books I’d like to ask people in my office “have you read x? There’s an idea in there about y that I think you’d be interested in.”

1123581321 4y ago
I've read his management book and I don't remember anything as easy to use as this scale. 7 Habits is a classic self-help book that would accomplish some of this. Although, it approaches the problem of business indirectly with concepts like degree of control vs. degree of concern. It also suggests principles that an overly busy person cannot follow, but never connects the dots by explicitly saying "you're too busy." Another one to look at comes from R&D management: Principles of Product Development Flow. The first couple chapters, especially, explain the problems of trying to maintain a full schedule (queueing theory.) I would probably make a resource based on the book rather than just handing someone a copy, unless you know they'd not be intimidated by it. https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Product-Development-Flow-Generation/dp/1935401009 https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Product-Development-Flow-G...

andsoitis 4y ago

"For every parcel I stoop down to seize I lose some other off my arms and knees, And the whole pile is slipping, bottles, buns -- Extremes too hard to comprehend at once, Yet nothing I should care to leave behind. With all I have to hold with hand and mind And heart, if need be, I will do my best To keep their building balanced at my breast. I crouch down to prevent them as they fall; Then sit down in the middle of them all. I had to drop the armful in the road And try to stack them in a better load." --- Robert Frost

seanhunter 4y ago
Little known fact: Robert Frost wrote this after playing "Death Stranding".
- mjrbrennan 4y ago
  I had no idea he wrote the first Strand-type poem.
nerdponx 4y ago
Sounds like my ADHD.
evancoop 4y ago
These pings annoy me, night and day, Incessant asks without delay, And lines to code to earn my pay... And lines to code to earn my pay.
- a_e_k 4y ago
  Two branches diverged in a Git repo...
  - evancoop 4y ago
    And sorry I could not pull them both / And build one module, long I sat ...
  - xerox13ster 4y ago

jll29 4y ago

Many companies, and certainly some people I know, are keeping busy and confuse "operationally busy" with "successful". Most people that are too busy stop thinking strategically, and instead restrict all their energy and attention to short-term firefighting. Rapidly-changing diaries are problematic already at much lower levels than "business level 7"... they also interfere with your own ability to plan your day.

mv4 4y ago

Being busy feels entirely different when you are in charge. If, however, your calendar is controlled by other people...

klyrs 4y ago

After years of burnout, my psyche rewrote 6 to prevent 7. When I get to that point, my subconscious rebels and I stare into the depths of the void rather than work. My conscious mind notices this behavior, I tell everybody what's happening and I cancel or indefinitely delay everything except for literal life and death. I take a few days off, then set a goal of one focused task a day. If that only takes an hour, that's fine, I did the task. Gradually I increase the load, but I know from repeated burnout cycles that impatience will deepen the wound.

feoren 4y ago
> a goal of one focused task a day. If that only takes an hour, that's fine, I did the task. It's a rare privilege to be able to rebalance your own workload like that. As a consultant, I have some ability to do this, but if I accomplish one focused task that takes an hour one day, I only get paid for one hour that day. I cannot make myself less busy without literally lowering my pay.
- klyrs 4y ago
  It is. I'm an established researcher, and my coworkers see the lead-up to the crash -- at levels 3-5, I'm over-producing enough to keep folks busy through the lull. I know that my productivity has peaks and troughs, and when I'm on fire it's difficult to hold back (ADHD life-hack: doing what you love risks detrimental hyperfocus). But, as a researcher, when I'm doing my job, I'm not unblocking issues; I'm creating work for others months to years down the road. Supporting that work (this is where I can be a blocker) is often very low-touch and high-reward so that's what I focus on in the down-times. If I was an hourly contractor, I'd be billing for those extra hours in the hopes that I could cover myself after a crash. But I'm not sure that contract research is a thing. And... have you considered billing by the day? I've never been a contractor but I've heard it's a thing. But... it's not like I have a choice in the matter. I've forced myself to work through burnout for literally years at a time, and now that part of me is broken forever. That's what "unsustainable" means. I will eventually quit tech, or move on to management, when the time comes. If you cannot find slack and your busyness is frequently hitting 5-7, breakdowns will occur. If you can't recover without going broke, you haven't found a sustainable balance. Again, not a contractor, but the advice I've heard from contractors is to charge more.

warner25 4y ago

I know this is supposed to be about "work" instead of "life," but I'm trying to decide which one is the baseline level as a parent of several children. I'm thinking Level 4, but maybe Level 5. When my kids ask if / when we can go somewhere special or do some project together, I frequently find myself just shaking my head and saying that I can't answer for anything beyond the next couple of hours, because I need to coordinate with mom and all their siblings' schedules, and because I don't know who's going to get sick or have a tantrum that derails our plans, etc. When my wife or I go down with illness or injury ourselves, it immediately goes to Level 6 or 7 for the remaining parent.

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aflukasz 4y ago

Somewhat related: Oliver Burkeman has some interesting thoughts about time management and how people have this tendencies to schedule too much as a coping mechanism to deny their limitations around the time they have and how much they can accomplish given their constraints. I didn't read any of his books, but heard him on Sam Harris' podcast/app and found his take interesting and stimulating reflection about my own behaviors. Certainly worth looking up, if you believe you might be affected by similar phenomenon.

obruchez 4y ago
I've read Burkeman's book and heard him on Sam Harris' podcast and app (Waking Up). A lot of people would benefit from his ideas. The core idea being: we think that we need just "a little more time" or "just another productivity hack" to be on top of things, but this is the wrong way to approach things. Creative people will always have too many projects/tasks on their to-do list.

phtrivier 4y ago

So... What ? I've yet to find myself in a position where I was wondering on which level of such a scale I am. The only interesting question is "I'm perpetually at one of the last two or three stages, how do I go down the scale ?" (Ironically, reading HN is one of the things _not_ to do.)

GCA10 4y ago

I'll offer a companion scale that speaks to when/how we declare stuff done and ship it. A. Levels 1 and 2. I ship stuff when it's as excellent and finished as I can possibly make it. B. Levels 3 and 4. I'm too busy to get every last detail tidied up, but when I ship stuff, it's 90% of what I wanted it to be. I don't always nail the deadline 100%, but on both quality and timeliness, I'm respected and seen as someone who doesn't let the team down. I secretly like peeling away when it's almost done, because there's usually something more valuable and exciting coming next. C. Level 5. I'm very erratic. On a few key projects, I'm still shipping in a pretty dependable way. But the amount of half-done stuff in my mental attic is scary. I've still got the willpower and credibility every now and then to offload/kill the most hopeless projects, and that gives me a bit of a reprieve. D. Levels 6 and 7. I don't have a coherent approach to shipping. Incomplete work leaves my control when someone else seizes it from me. There's a ton of stuff that's half-done that I may never have time to revisit. I'm too tired to sort out anything -- or put up a fight.

agumonkey 4y ago

Pretty useful for my own use. I realize that I hate living above triage-hard level. Thanks

kortheo 4y ago

I find this a useful framework for thinking about busy-ness. I'm someone who skews towards feeling over-responsible for things, has a hard time saying 'No', etc. Comments here are making me realize that not everyone is like this and that maybe a better workload balance is possible. Does anyone have suggestions for books, articles, etc that have helped you improve your workload management and set boundaries regarding projects, ask for help when you're overloaded, etc? I often feel like I'm just at the mercy of what is put on my plate by other people.

teach 4y ago
I'm not such a person myself but I hear "The Art Of Saying NO" by Zahariades is pretty good. Not quite the same topic but I've also heard good things about "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck" by Manson
- kortheo 4y ago
  That looks promising, thank you!

surfsvammel 4y ago

This makes me thankful. I realise that I am leading a very balanced life today. There was a time when I was completely overworked. A short project, but it was devastating. It was stressful for everyone involved, but mostly so for me and a colleague of mine. I was in my early thirties and she in her early sixties. We worked day and night, taking taxis to and from work, to get home, for 4 hours of sleep. She came out of the period unscathed, no problem at all while I developed claustrophobia, insomnia, paranoia and depression. Those went away, after some time, within a year or so. But I, to this day, think that I dodged a bullet. It could’ve gone so much worse. One big learning, or realisation, that I had, from that experience, was that taking one of those self tests, showed all the signs of being over worked and stressed. But. I didn’t feel stressed. That was the killer. I didn’t feel stressed, and so I kept going thinking ‘I guess those tests/signs apparently don’t apply to me’. Never again.

krallja 4y ago

What's it called when your brain skips straight from level 2 to level 7? Asking for a friend, who is myself.

xwowsersx 4y ago

I'm at a Level 6 :(

blitzar 4y ago

Level 0: Bullshit busy. How's it going? So busy. When you have that conversation the level they are refering to is Level 0.

sublinear 4y ago

Why break it up into levels? You schedule time and stick to it. All unscheduled time is considered busy. No interruptions. Deal with it.

DharmaPolice 4y ago
What % of employees do you think are in a position where they can just blanket refuse all interruptions?
- deleted 4y ago
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- Maxburn 4y ago
  Seriously, as a tech lead I take a lot of calls for help/advice from junior techs up through senior leadership. Cut all that off and see how long I still have a job. I encourage use of "asynchronous" communication like txt and email and letting calls go to voicemail. Key item is to actually follow up on those things several times a day. I've taken to coming in at 6AM and getting things done before the 8AM flood hits. Second flood happens during lunch. Not much during the end of the day so generally off at 4 which is nice.
  - sublinear 4y ago
    Preferring async communication and advising people to prepare before attending scheduled meetings is what I was suggesting, yeah. Everyone needs to be at the same level of organization and agree upon what topics are and aren't relevant for each meeting. This is the flip side of work from home culture. You have to have your shit together. No excuses.
  - dopidopHN 4y ago
    > Cut all that off and see how long I still have a job Don’t cut it. Ask if it’s urgent. If not, say you can come to it in X amount of time. If the person is junior or insisting, tell them the laundry list of questions you will have to get context. And ask if they did all that research already. It has the double nice effect of motivating people to diagnose their stuff better. And usually once you are free, the stuff is solved. I tend to avoid tech lead position now but I hold many and it went well. Setting boundaries works !

revskill 4y ago

Ahh, i've seen my friends busy debugging and manual testing their code throughout the day.

Pelam 4y ago

I'd say anything beyond level 3 is likely already unsustainable for longer periods if you want to avoid stress related ilnesses. Depends on other factors of course.

Rygian 4y ago
Indeed. The post neglects to mention at which Level one would start saying "No." And I argue it should be Level 3, to avoid going to Level 4. If I found myself in Level 5, 6, or 7 the only explanation I would find is that I've very badly mismanaged my time for too long.

dspillett 4y ago

This applies to trying to do too much in non-working hours as well as conflict between the two. I feel I'm at 5 and have been for a while in terms of not having time for everything I've decided to do (particularly the things I've told others I will do) and I'm too belligerent to let things drop. I perhaps must do something about this!

jasperry 4y ago
The trick is to become more and more resentful about how you are being used until that feeling is stronger than the stubbornness that won't let things drop. ;)
- dspillett 4y ago
  One of my key issues is being (sorry for the technical medical terminology here) a bit of a manic depressive fuckwit. Manic me gets big ideas & plans things, and being all excitable he tells everyone about said intentions so that the rest of me then feels the need to find a way of making happen! I do it to myself more than there being other people to be resentful of.

pizzaknife 4y ago

Id offer that simple vocabulary we use in "agile" is indicative of why we even reach stages above 3. I offer the use of the term "sprint" as evidence.

ttyyzz 4y ago
you can use agile in a good way here - say you are a dev and somebody wants something from you. your schedule is set, all the tasks for the sprint have been planned and you commited to doing them. you can just say "i have not time for that but you could try to to talk to the PO. the product owner could adjust the prioritization for the next sprint accordingly.." Working at the shout of other people tends to damage you and the company in the long term (If you are building things and have to maintain them). I understand that not everyone is a developer and this example does not fit every role. Likewise, an "agile" way of working should not be used for every job.
kybernetikos 4y ago
It is very odd that the two week cadence gets referred to as a sprint. Sprints are definitionally not done at a speed that can be kept up for a long period of time, yet we expect our teams to 'sprint' unendingly.
- Sakos 4y ago
  That's an interesting take. Are sprints sustainable?
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  Yet they are sprints by definition. There is no pause to evaluate the work, fix past mistakes, globally plan the system, understand how it will fit when applied. Scrum only has the part when you get your head down and code. Finished it? Good, let's see what is the next task, get our heads down and code again. "Sprint" is a very apt name. (Of course, that is because the activities that actually bring product quality got somebody specialized on them. You can't find a best portrait of the Western management culture looking at management, disenfranchise the workers that actually know how to do things, bring somebody with no skin on the game and plenty of conflicting interests to make all the decisions.)

jasperry 4y ago

I was surprised that even at level 5 it still says "stuff isn't getting dropped." Might I suggest starting to drop stuff well before that level? Yes, on purpose. It can even help you find out what's really important and who actually is relying on you to do all that stuff. Overall, this sounds like it was posted by a person with an over-active sense of responsibility, which I can relate to all too well...

ajb 4y ago
Yes, it's well observed, but the fact that only the top level is considered 'unsustainable' is an issue - level 4 is already sub-optimal as there is no margin. And there are 3 levels above that.
nuclearnice1 4y ago
I agree with the sentiment. From the text I think he draws a distinction between consciously deciding not to do something and missing it entirely. Level 5 allows consciously dropping — saying “I’m sorry [can’t do it] a lot” Level 6 - you aren’t seeing everything and they are getting dropped WITHOUT intent. “Just saying “No” to inbound things is not enough.” As an aside, guidelines violating clickbait number title? “The Seven Levels of Busy”
- scott_w 4y ago
  It’s not clickbait because it gives you what it promises you
- ryandrake 4y ago
  As someone who's work days are always level 5, and occasionally level 6, I think that transition (5 to 6) is the point where you absolutely need to ask for help. 6 inevitably leads to 7 if uncorrected. At many workplaces, it's totally OK to drop things deliberately. I've been told by managers that [Company] deliberately loads you with more than you can do and expects you to make the right judgment calls. It's even sometimes OK to drop them by accident as long as you know they are being dropped and communicate the droppage after the fact. When you start dropping things and don't even know you're dropping them, that's usually where it starts becoming a problem for the organization and where it starts coming up in performance reviews.

mgrassotti 4y ago

There are higher levels

jamesgreenleaf 4y ago
If Level 7 is minute to minute, then Level 8 must be something like a combat or survival situation in which every split-second matters. What's beyond that? Eldritch horrors?
- blitzar 4y ago
  If you go beyond 7 it loops back to level 1.