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One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hosp
by robomartin 4y ago
One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good.
We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today.
The one thing that angers me is that this incident cost us $10K. Obamacare, which was forced upon us and costs us $2,400 PER MONTH, did not cover it. We have no recourse whatsoever for this incident and any future care requirements.
- arein3 4y ago
- sfusato 4y agoThere's plenty of would-do-it-again testimonials from a hospital bed caused by a vaccine injury/side effect. There's a famous Mark Twain quote that comes to mind.
- arein3 4y agoA theory proposed by Charles Darwin comes to mind.
- lob_it 4y agoWas that "empathy equals manufactured crisis cubed"? Science is hard :p
- floor2 4y agoMaking the statistically best choice is still the best choice even if you get an undesired outcome. Good poker players can lose all their chips at the table to an unlucky draw and walk away knowing that they made the right play and that they'd do it again, even if they got unlucky on the river card. Good basketball coaches will still draw up plays to get the ball into the hands of their best shooter at the end of the game even if they miss sometimes. If you're choosing between option A that has a 0.0001% chance of hurting you and option B that has a 10% chance of hurting you, and you choose A and still get hurt, that doesn't mean you made the wrong choice or that if you have it to do over again you should choose B.
- arein3 4y ago[flagged]
- ifyoubuildit 4y agoExcept the issue is how certain we are of these percentages. In poker, the win rate of AA against 72 heads up is well known. In reality, we don't have that. We get whatever ideas have the largest marketing budget behind them, and we just have to trust them. It's more like "nobody gets fired for buying IBM (or pick your favorite pundit)" than running a poker scenario through a solver. And that's fine, I don't think you can expect much more than that out of people.
- selectodude 4y agohttps://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.059970 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.... Pick your poison, then.
- nmilo 4y ago> Overall, the risk of myocarditis is greater after SARS-CoV-2 infection than after COVID-19 vaccination and remains modest after sequential doses including a booster dose of BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine. However, the risk of myocarditis after vaccination is higher in younger men, particularly after a second dose of the mRNA-1273 vaccine.
- vixen99 4y agoAn Israeli study reported here: https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/07/08/no-increase-myocarditis-covid-infection-unvaccinated/ https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/07/08/no-increase-myocarditi... [‘The Incidence of Myocarditis and Pericarditis in Post COVID-19 Unvaccinated Patients—A Large Population-Based Study’.] finds “no increase in incidence of myocarditis” after Covid infection in unvaccinated adults.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ckw 4y agoAnd the peak age/sex related risk is almost certainly understated in the paper, because ‘younger men’ refers to the entire under 40 population.
- busymom0 4y ago1. Risk of Myocarditis is higher for males under 40 from the vax than from infection. Only if you look at the entire population and dilute that risk do you see risk being higher from infection. 2. The vax doesn’t prevent infection anyway, so whatever the point they are making is moot. 3. The risk is being compounded each time- first from vax, then from infection, then from boosters.
- mberning 4y ago[flagged]
- arein3 4y agoDoubling down on a choice that proved to be bad for them. I don't understand why anyone would do that, perhaps only because they understood that it was a mistake and they want others to make the same mistake.
- AmVess 4y agoBoggles my mind that parents are willingly exposing their kids to something they absolutely do not need.
- treeman79 4y agoSchools required it. No exemptions.
- GenerocUsername 4y agoThen the school should pay for the known side effects
- thepasswordis 4y agoNo amount of money can replace my child.
- GenerocUsername 4y agoThen schools should not be mandating experimental therapies
- thepasswordis 4y agoYou'll find no argument about that from me.
- TurkishPoptart 4y agoMalice or stupidity? Collusion or conspiracy? I think it's all of the above.
- arein3 4y agoThe kid might even have had natural antibodies, since when the vaccines were approved for kids a very big percent of them already had covid.
- treeman79 4y agoWife for a booster. Arm swelled up. Been a year. No improvement. We had already had Covid. Current time in school boosters. All the teachers kept getting covid anyway. Hard to be anything then hostile toward anyone that is on the forcing people to get shots or to cut them from services train.
- megous 4y agoSame here. Since 1 day post vaccination pain in elbow for almost a year (if she was doing physical job, she'd not be able to work for amlost a year) On top of that constant unending headache for first ~6 months. Doctors help basically just "we don't know, there's no research, it will hopefully get better". It did after a year. Great. Govt pushed people to vaccinate to prevent the spread (despite individual's risk being very low) with promise to compensate in case of issues. lol, they didn't even compensate people who were paralyzed after vaccination with response "You can't prove it's from vaccination, sorry." Zero benefit from the vaccination itself, since she didn't go for a second shot after this. Cost/benefit very negative, since she likely didn't need the vaccination in the first place since she's not in the risk group and this was just "for the society" thing. And turns out it doesn't work againt spread much either.
- thrwy_918 4y ago> Obamacare, which was forced upon us and costs us $2,400 PER MONTH, did not cover it Can you expand on this please? I find it extremely hard to understand how an ACA-compliant health care plan could "not cover" a hospital stay for myocarditis. Unless you're on a high-deductible plan and the entire stay was less than your deductible?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- aaomidi 4y agoI have the same question here. What part of it wasn’t covered? Could you share part of the EoB with sensitive information removed?
- throwaway09223 4y agoA two week hospital stay is orders of magnitude more than $10k, so presumably the $10k representes the out of pocket portion of the care. I suspect the maximum annual out of pocket.
- beebmam 4y agoExactly right. People with insurance have zero idea how much medical care actually costs because it's really hard to keep up with all the health insurance documents one receives. Try being hospitalized without insurance. You'll find out really fast. (I was, twice, circa 2010. I was unemployed and uninsured)
- DebtDeflation 4y agoPeople who get their insurance through their employer also typically have no idea how much their insurance premium costs because the average employer pays 70-80% of the actual monthly premium and what gets deducted from your paycheck every month is just the remainder.
- scifibestfi 4y agoYou're not angered that you were advised to give this to a 15 year old with no upside even after he was hospitalized for 2 weeks as a result?!
- stronglikedan 4y ago
- hnrodey 4y ago
- TechBro8615 4y agoOP didn't say they're giving their child another booster.
- hnrodey 4y agoIt was abuse at the first attempt.
- RONROC 4y ago
- oezi 4y agoThe risk from myocarditis from getting Covid-19 is higher than getting it from the vaccine. The decision to vaccinate even young people made sense during the height of the pandemic and it doesn't make so much sense now anymore.
- cerradokids 4y agoWhere did you get that data? According to this study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ there is no increase in Myocarditis cases among unvaccinated people who have contracted Covid-19. This study tracked 196,992 people which is a huge number, so the data here is quite good and clear. Contracting Covid-19 does not put you at increased risk for Myocarditis, the same cannot be said when evaluating a population that simply received the vaccination.
- uptownfunk 4y ago[flagged]
- wiredearp 4y agoWell it hasn't been proven that it isn't either, in fact https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/us/politics/moderna-booster.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/us/politics/moderna-boost...
- tablespoon 4y ago> The one thing that angers me is that this incident cost us $10K. Obamacare, which was forced upon us and costs us $2,400 PER MONTH, did not cover it. We have no recourse whatsoever for this incident and any future care requirements. Seriously? That's shitty. What's the insurance company's rationale for denying the claim? Isn't there some kind of government fund to compensate people for vaccine side effects? Seems like you'd have a strong claim to get reimbursed from them.
- nradov 4y agoYes there is a government compensation program: Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP). https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp
- HideousKojima 4y agoKeep in mind the CICP has both lower payout rates and payout amounts than the VICP. Side effects from the covid shots can only be compensated out of the CICP
- dahfizz 4y agowww.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/11/04/feds-pay-zero-claims-for-covid-19-vaccine-injuriesdeaths/amp/
- valarauko 4y agoNaive q: why are the mRNA COVID vaccines still covered by CICP & not VICP if they're now fully authorized by the FDA? I assumed the initial coverage under CICP was due to the emergency authorization.
- ceejayoz 4y ago> What's the insurance company's rationale for denying the claim? They didn't, if the parent poster only got billed $10k. Two weeks in the hospital costs more than $10k; that amount is likely their insurance plan's annual deductible, coinsurance, and copays. These expenses were a thing pre-ACA, to be clear; deductibles, coinsurance, and copays existed before it. The ACA capped the amount you can be charged.
- toast0 4y ago> did not cover it As in you paid the whole cost, and it was $10K, and it didn't count on your deductables / out of pocket max? Or the patient paid portion was $10K, the insurance paid portion was $0, but now you're a lot closer to your maximums? Did you file with the CICP? https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp
- vanattab 4y agoI don't know if this is still the case but as of Nov 21 the feds had paid zero covid cicp claims. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/11/04/feds-pay-zero-claims-for-covid-19-vaccine-injuriesdeaths/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrze...
- ceejayoz 4y agoYou wouldn't file a CICP claim for a bout of myocarditis in which "we have not seen indications of lasting damage". That's not what it's for.
- gjsman-1000 4y agoWell... according to CICP themselves, as of October 1st 2022, they have only paid out 6 claims for COVID-9 vaccines - ever. Which, even by this NBC News article standard, is low. However, 5 of them were for myocarditis, 1 for anaphylaxis. https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data
- robomartin 4y ago> Did you file with the CICP? https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp Yes, we did. It's worse than dealing with the DMV. I don't know where we are in the process other than my wife (she is a doctor) telling me not to hold my breath.
- elevenoh 4y ago>We are still not anti-vax at all deciding not to get a covid-19 mrna vaccine != anti-vax
- robomartin 4y ago> deciding not to get a covid-19 mrna vaccine != anti-vax Sorry, didn't mean to imply that. I just wanted to make it clear that, despite this incident, we have not changed our position with regards to vaccines of any kind. That's not to say we might exercise more caution in the future.
- no_butterscotch 4y ago> We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. I'm curious about this. In my world COVID is over now. I live in San Francisco. Nobody I know is getting boosters or is worried about it anymore. Where do you live and what are the circumstances like there that you're considering getting your "next" one? (you've been boosted before?).
- enragedcacti 4y agoNot the OP but: Covid definitely isn't over, it's just that we've gotten better at treating it and people have decided that they are over it. It is still killing almost 2000 people a week in the US and it's very possible that we will see a huge spike in that as we get further into winter. the "next" booster is referring to the updated vaccine that more effectively targets the dominant "Omicron" variant.
- sharken 4y agoAt least provide some facts to the 2000 people a week claim.
- greenyoda 4y agoThe CDC is reporting 2344 COVID deaths per week: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home
- origin_path 4y agoBe aware that since Omicron virtually all of those are dying "with" COVID, not of it. Examples collected from the Milwaukee coroner's office: https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/six-recent-covid-deaths-per-the-milwaukee/comments https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/six-recent-covid-deaths-... That's why the age skew is so high.
- Avshalom 4y agohttps://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_weeklydeaths_select_00 https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_weeklydeath... The last time it was under 2000 was july '21
- coinbasetwwa 4y ago
- MarcoZavala 4y ago
- MarcoZavala 4y ago
- tibbydudeza 4y agoA good thing he is so young - seems like a good indicator for no lasting damage. We really don't know much about this virus and by association it's vaccine - it does not behave like the flu - lost a colleague to Beta who was way fitter and way healthier than me (he did Murtai and BMI) - he ended on a ventilator and died, and I was just man down for week and a half at home. It still took me weeks to recover back to myself again - still got the booster shot afterwards.
- coinbasetwwa 4y ago
- cmh89 4y agoPeople are liable to drop dead the same day they drink water! They must be connected!
- pasquinelli 4y ago> The one thing that angers me is that this incident cost us $10K. Obamacare, which was forced upon us and costs us $2,400 PER MONTH, did not cover it. We have no recourse whatsoever for this incident and any future care requirements. that angers me too. america bumbled its way through the pandemic, and we're no closer to getting single payer healthcare. not even for medical care related to the pandemic, which is collectively beneficial.
- chasd00 4y agomy sister ended up with endocarditis and nearly died. She went from "i feel bad, i should go to the doctor" to emergency heart valve replacement surgery in about 8 days.
- hotpotamus 4y agoNatasha Leone (famous actress) talks about getting endocarditis and it was serious as well. She was very vulnerable to it because of some behavioral factors. My impression is that myocarditis is not as serious as endocarditis though.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jrumbut 4y agoAlthough it wasn't vaccine related, my wife had a similar bill for a similar reason and I learned a couple things: They may be saying the hospital or some provider within it was out of network, challenge this on the grounds it was an emergency. Challenge everything on the grounds that it was an emergency. We had excellent grounds to challenge a few of the charges from the hospital (clear billing mistakes), but it never got to the point of evidence. We just called to argue and they instantly dropped them. I would strongly advise just calling and complaining and seeing what that gets you. Many hospitals offer interest/fee free installment plans, you just have to ask. I am, by nature, a mild mannered (perhaps even meek) person, but let me tell you that just doesn't work with hospitals and insurers. Their process requires you to take an adversarial/demanding role with them otherwise you will not just get billed unnecessarily but also not receive all the care you are entitled to.
- hotpotamus 4y agoI have an uninsured friend who just gives them a fake name. Seems very non-confrontational to me.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- momo_O 4y agoHow has they worked out for them?
- hotpotamus 4y agoI would say acceptably? I don't suppose it matters that much since he's uncollectible in the best of circumstances, but he seems to like avoiding the pretense that he'll be paying back any medical providers.
- morpheuskafka 4y agoYou didn't have any luck making a CICP claim? It says they have approved five myocarditis claims in principle, but it seems a lot less well documented than the corresponding VICP ("vaccine court") for regular vaccines. It's a bit disconcerting that the CICP is not overseen by a court the way the VICP is.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- kgwxd 4y agoACA isn't an insurance plan. What was or wasn't covered, and what your out-of-pocket costs were, have nothing to do with ACA. ACA forced you to pick a plan or face tax penalties, that's all, the rest is on the plan you chose. If you had chosen to not have insurance at all, you'd have paid way more that 10k and maybe even more than what you've put into your premiums already. I pay $1640 a month for full family coverage with a $600 deductible per person, per year, the second best plan I could find. I think you got a pretty bad plan at 2400/month with a 10k deductible.
- jdminhbg 4y ago> What was or wasn't covered, and what your out-of-pocket costs were, have nothing to do with ACA. This isn’t true at all, the ACA did a lot of mandating what insurance companies must cover, what maximum deductibles were, etc.
- ceejayoz 4y agoTrue, but kinda irrelevant to the point; that the ACA isn't responsible for OP's situation. The ACA sets minimum levels of coverage, and maximum levels of deductibles and out-of-pocket expenses. No plan was required to reduce healthcare coverage offered, or to raise their OOP max amounts due to it.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- xadhominemx 4y agoWell COVID also causes myocarditis, so it’s not surprising there were a lot of cases at the hospital. The question is whether the vaccines cause myocarditis at a higher rate than unvaccinated/unboosted COVID infections. They might for young men. For every other group, unvaccinated/unboosted infection is way more likely to cause myocarditis than the vaccine.
- z7 4y ago"Retrospective cohort study of 196,992 adults after COVID-19 infection in Israel between March 2020 and January 2021. [...] We did not observe an increased incidence of neither pericarditis nor myocarditis in adult patients recovering from COVID-19 infection." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/
- xadhominemx 4y agoNot sure what the deal is with the Israeli study, but other, larger studies have found a huge effect consistent with my comment eg https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.059970 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA....
- rrauenza 4y agoDid anyone point you to this? https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation. …does it apply at all? Edit: ah, yes, found the sub thread on cicp.
- giantdude 4y ago>One of my kids, 15 at the time, ... You had 15 kids at the time? How many kids do you have now? My hat is off!
- blacksqr 4y ago>Obamacare, which was forced upon us The ACA individual mandate penalty was eliminated in 2017.
- kgwxd 4y agoHmm, that appears to be true. Then why does my tax person still require me to submit the paper that shows I had insurance for the whole year?
- ars 4y agoHe means that you can't get inexpensive insurance for low risk populations anymore. Prices were lower as were deductibles before the ACA.
- robomartin 4y ago> The ACA individual mandate penalty was eliminated in 2017. The ACA destroyed the prior insurance market. There is no way we can get what we had before for $650, in terms of cost, coverage and quality of care.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- bsder 4y ago> Obamacare, which was forced upon us and costs us $2,400 PER MONTH, did not cover it. We have no recourse whatsoever for this incident and any future care requirements. Calling this out as bullshit. Show me a reference. You can get a PLATINUM plan on the California exchanges for less than that for a family--and your co-pay for everything will be under $250. I would also like to point out that "myocarditis" qualifies as a preexisting condition. Without Obamacare, your child would never be able to get health insurance at all.
- robomartin 4y ago> Calling this out as bullshit. Show me a reference. You mean, like this: https://i.imgur.com/iIz30xw.png https://i.imgur.com/iIz30xw.png Take note of the rating. The fact that they are labeled "Platinum" is nice marketing. We've had family members and friends on some of these plans, they are --and I am being kind-- not great. The context shouldn't be what's on the CA exchanges today. It should be what we and others had prior to being forced into ACA. Which was fantastic insurance for the entire family for $650 per month. Our deductibles were half what they are today and we had all the catastrophic stuff just the same. I assure you that, with my wife being a doctor, we did not have shit insurance. What should horrify everyone is that, today, in the US, a family has to spend $30K per year for health insurance. That's just insane. Before you say "we don't". If you get your insurance through your employer you should ask them how much they are spending for your insurance. Unless they got you on a shit program, they are likely spending $20K to $30K on you. This is money that is not available to give you a raise. In other words, you are still suffering the consequences of the ACA scam, you just don't know it. Oh, yes, and don't get me started on the Presidential promise that families would save $2,500 per year, keep their doctors, etc. We went from $7,800 per year to $27,600 per year. More than that actually. Due to the high deductibles we have to spend thousands of dollars per year before any of it actually kicks in. I haven't done the math at this point. I would not be surprised if we've reached $40K. Again, no problem helping others. That doesn't mean robbing families of tens of thousands of dollars per year. That's fucking criminal. I know many don't feel this way. That's only so because they have never been on the receiving end of something like this. We love to talk about the concept of "fair share". Well, tripling health insurance costs isn't anywhere close to "fair share", it's government-enforced theft under false promises.
- listless 4y agoWe did not vaccinate our 3 teen boys. They all contracted COVID and recovered in 48 hours. I’m sorry to hear about your experience. The emotional strain from that was probably awful.
- jesterson 4y agoIt boggles my mind that despite inflicting obvious and severe harm on your very own kids, people still believe in "vaccines". Let alone $10k. Chances you kid would have gotten any troubles from covid are statistically absolutely negligible, given his age and hopefully absence of other illnesses. Now you can blame as anti-vaxxer and sorts, but at least I didn't get myocarditis.
- trog 4y ago> It boggles my mind that despite inflicting obvious and severe harm on your very own kids, people still believe in "vaccines". Let alone $10k. it boggles my mind that despite being plugged into an information network people can be this staggeringly ignorant about the wild success of vaccines
- exodust 4y ago"Wild success"? That isn't helpful. While I don't agree with previous comment implying obvious and severe harm from vaccines, it's well known that kids rarely get sick from covid. It's well known the vaccine effectiveness wanes in a short time, and doesn't stop symptomatic infection, and is doing very little to stop transmission. It's only real benefit is prevention of serious illness in those most vulnerable. Given these facts, you can't blame people for not wanting to jab their kids with covid vaccines.
- trog 4y agoAssumed GP was talking about vaccines in general. But the COVID vaccines alone has an order of magnitude impact on body count, before you even look at reducing severity, reducing spread, and the other benefits. Hard for me to consider that anything other than a wild success. Is it perfect? Of course not. Do I wish it was better? Obviously. But it reduced the risk of COVID significantly for a huge number of people. Those of us in countries that had successful lockdowns look at the mortality rate of those that were not able or willing to do so & pretty thankful we were able to postpone the virus until the vaccine was deployed.
- gamblor956 4y agoI'm going to call bullshit on someone paying $2400/month and then having to pay $10,000 for a hospital. Such a plan does not exist in California. Just did a search on CoveredCA. Monthly premium for Platinum Plans for a family of 4: $1200-1800 for a zero-deductibleplan (range includes Blue Shield, Kaiser, Anthem, Health Net, and OSCAR). Because, as the CoveredCA website points out: "Platinum and Gold plans have a $0 deductible." The whole point of the Platinum and Gold plans is that you pay more upfront each month in exchange for lower out-of-pocket expenses when you actually utilize your insurance.
- runamok 4y agoThe ACA mandate afaik no longer carries a fine so as of today at least you are free to go without insurance if you so choose. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 eliminated the fine for violating the individual mandate, starting in 2019. (The requirement itself is still in effect.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Care_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Care_Act Furthermore how many people are covered by that $2400 a month? I'd assume it's at least 4 if not more?
- acjohnson55 4y agoI'm sorry about the hospitalization and the absurd hospital bill. But one thing I don't understand, are you saying that before Obamacare, the situation would have been better? If so, how? Personally, I wish we had a healthcare system where people are simply covered for this sort of occurrence automatically.