7 ms·
‘Dark ships’ emerge from the shadows of the Nord Stream mystery
- habibur 4y agoThat proves the explosion was deliberate. But who did it, is something that every state head says they know but no one is talking.
- computerfriend 4y agoNo it doesn't.
- exabrial 4y agoThis is correct; Circumstantial evidence, which is a clue, not a conclusion. We need to keep collecting information. I think the obvious conclusion is a false flag operation, but again, all evidence is circumstantial.
- fuoqi 4y ago>>That proves the explosion was deliberate. >No it doesn't. No one denies that the explosions are an act of sabotage. How do you imagine non-deliberate explosions happening approximately at the same time and of such power as to cause seismic sensors to reliably detect them?
- progre 4y agoAlso, a lot of explosives was used. A lot more than what would have destoyed the pipes. So not only were the pipes sabotaged, whoever did it wanted to make it obvious.
- vintermann 4y agoNo, we don't know that. It might just have been easiest. It would be obvious anyway.
- computerfriend 4y agoI personally believe that it was sabotage. But this doesn't prove it.
- fuoqi 4y agoAh, sure. It could've been swamp gas from a weather balloon trapped in a thermal pocket, which has reflected the light from Venus.
- libraryatnight 4y agoUncle Dave?
- narag 4y agoMan in Black. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TgSGylIw2A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TgSGylIw2A That in turn were quoting usual explanations from the Blue Book Project era.
- bayindirh 4y agoThe thing is, the prime suspect(s) of this operation have means to do this much more stealthily. Why send a 95 to 130 meter ship to do that? I believe this is sabotage. I have no idea who did it and why, but saying "Hey, there are two ships, miles away from the site with transponders off. It's them!" is a bit of a stretch.
- fuoqi 4y agoI am not saying that it's proven that the "dark" ship is responsible here. I am objecting to the opinion that blowing up NS/NS2 is somehow not an obvious act of sabotage. With all the rhetoric from the US about not allowing NS2 using any means, I think that it's quite possible that charges were planted long before the explosions and were activated remotely.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
- pdntspa 4y agoThere have been stranger coincidences
- afrcnc 4y agoIt was Russia. Even toddlers know it was Russia, ffs. They just wanted out of the German gas supply contract. Ffs, they ran "winter is coming" ads on social media for a purpose. They've warned Europe they'd turn the gas off if they helped Ukraine. Where have you been living?
- Doxin 4y agoSo why not just turn the tap off instead?
- lgvln 4y agoIt seems like it is common for military vessels to turn off their AIS regularly, presumably to hide their movements. The USS Fitzgerald had its AIS turned off right outside of Tokyo, another busy shipping lane, when it collided with a container ship. [0] Interestingly, the corresponding Wikipedia page of the collision is omits the AIS factor completely. [1] [0] https://maritime-executive.com/article/fitzgerald-made-20-knots-through-traffic-without-ais https://maritime-executive.com/article/fitzgerald-made-20-kn... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Crystal_collision https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Cr...
- bergie 4y agoYep. Military, coast guard are both often without AIS. Actually, I think the only times I’ve seen military vessels with AIS on has been during some courtesy visits to other countries. The AIS static data is often not super useful (I think I saw a carrier reporting itself as something like “Uswarship03”). Fishing boats reputedly run without AIS as well to hide their (potentially illegal) activities. Then there are obviously pleasure craft that are not required to have AIS. But at least in the southern Baltic, most seem to carry a transponder.
- vintermann 4y agoThey can also spoof it, as the article suggests. Since it's rather suspicious when you suddenly turn off the transponder, I would certainly assume the sabotaging ship could have had a "cover story" in a nearby position.
- ALittleLight 4y agoCan't they just track the ships backwards in time to see wherever they left from? Or find the last time they used their transponders and see what they were flagged as? I also don't really understand the practice of calling it a "mystery". Yes, after Biden threatened to unilaterally end the pipeline, and Blinken reiterated the threat, "someone" blew up the pipeline. But wait! Even more mysteriously the US (and allies) is the only party with a clear benefit from blowing up the pipeline. Yes, I wonder who could've done such a thing...
- kneel 4y agoAre you sure Russian military didn't travel all the way down the Baltic Strait, past the competing norwegian pipeline, and blow up their own pipelines? /s
- chillwaves 4y agoHow does the US benefit? Russia had already shut down the pipeline and proven to be unreliable partner, and facing heavy sanctions. It's not like the US needed the pipeline destroyed in order to be in the position to supply LNG to Europe.
- flanflan 4y agoIf the pipeline was shut off it could presumably be turned back on. If the pipeline was blown up that changes things. At a time when much of the world is looking toward China and Russia instead of the US, Europe has been forced to be more dependent on the US.
- bsder 4y agoThis completely ignores: 1) The PR disaster that would ensue if the US were caught doing this 2) The fact that the US does this sort of thing with submarines, not ships. Whereas: we have Vladmir Putin who is looking at would be assassins who have a nice, ready-made source of cash if they take him out simply by turning the pipeline back on. And Putin will suffer neither PR nor diplomatic repercussions for blowing up the pipeline.
- cpsns 4y agoIt’s only a mystery to those willingly blind, for fear “their side” did a bad thing and not the enemy.
- MrBuddyCasino 4y agoIts Covid lab leak theory reloaded. There is one plausible theory that Occam Razors well but is inconvenient, and competing convoluted ones. This will only further decrease trust in the media and governments, „you can’t fool all the people all the time“.
- surfsvammel 4y agoDark ships? If this was Russias doing, or the US, why not send submarines to do something like this? I don’t buy it.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- narag 4y agoIs it doable with submarines? What would you do, torpedo the pipes? Assuming you want to plant charges, I've seen mini-subs attached to bigger submarines, but it was a movie (Red October), so no idea if that's really a thing. Otherwise, what do you do? Can divers be deployed from a submarine?
- xoxxala 4y agoThere are subs specifically designed for these kind of special operations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter
- MichaelCollins 4y agoAlso the BS-136 Orenburg, among others. Both Russia and America definitely have the capability.
- narag 4y agoThank you, also to morsch and Michael, this is very interesting. Brings me memories of the Seaview TV series.
- morsch 4y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_deck_shelter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_deck_shelter
- cwillu 4y agoThe DSRV from the book and movie is real: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystic-class_deep-submergence_rescue_vehicle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystic-class_deep-submergenc...
- chaostheory 4y agonice submarine PR article for SpaceKnow
- notacoward 4y agoNice "submarine" pun. :)
- chaostheory 4y agoNot sure if I understood, but how is it a pun? http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- dmix 4y ago> We have 38 specific algorithms that can detect military equipment Just trying to imagine the real-time data feeds of Russian military gear deployments that Ukraine gets from NATO. Russia has a long history of operating satellites and they have plenty of skilled software engineers as well. But I have a feeling it's hard to match the level of funding / ability brought to fore by the west. Having a constant accurate picture of where counter-battery radar is, where SAM/AA-radars are deployed, etc could massively increase survivability of high-value vehicles like HIMARs and their limited set of aircraft.
- borissk 4y agoVery few skilled software engineers work for Russia's military industry. In general the level of corruption in Russia is equal to an average African country and in military, where there's less visibility to the public, corruption is even higher. It's all about siphoning budget money into private pockets.
- throwawayit1234 4y ago> In general the level of corruption in Russia is equal to an average African country Painting with an awfully broad brush are we?
- nonethewiser 4y agoThat's what an average is.
- postalrat 4y agoWhat is it?
- MichaelCollins 4y agoThe data supports it. Some African countries are more corrupt than Russia, and some less corrupt. But it's totally fair to say that Russia's degree of corruption would be typical for Africa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
- milemi 4y agoWhat a ridiculous article. Kudos to WIRED for digging deep to let us know what the people who did this have to say about this mystery of mysteries.
- BlinkenBlinken 4y agoInteresting topic indeed. I think which ever perpetrator executed the operation to destroy the pipelines know about these ways of detecting objects using various satellite imagery (surface only) and try to avoid being detected. Question: what about sub surface data? Which detect anomalies at ground level of the area. Question: who benefits? Further more the inability of the various countries to work together is remarkable, at least in public. Trust no one?
- IAmGraydon 4y agoWhen considering who might have done this, think about this quote: "A people that no longer can believe anything cannot make up its mind. It is deprived not only of its capacity to act but also of its capacity to think and to judge. And with such a people you can then do what you please.” – Hannah Arendt, 1978 In three short sentences, this is a complete description of Russia's disinformation goals, and has been their MO in the war they've been waging on the West for over a decade. If you're wondering why they would blow Nord Stream up, it's to make everyone suspicious of everyone else, sowing distrust and making everyone unable to believe in the foundations of the alliance. They didn't do it to frame one country. They did it with the intention of it remaining unsolved. This is the same reason Russian trolls spread conspiracy theories in social media circles. It's the same reason they say one thing and do another. They want everyone confused and therefore weak. The only way to defeat this tactic to to make it known and to help the public learn to defend against it. This has got to be a priority in the West, but we're far more focused on the distraction of conventional war and not focused at all on the real danger in front of us.