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I'm a happy user of You Need a Budget. If the golden rule is "Spend less than you earn", the practical way to achieve that is "You Need a Budget". I use YNAB b

I'm a happy user of You Need a Budget. If the golden rule is "Spend less than you earn", the practical way to achieve that is "You Need a Budget". I use YNAB because it works for me, but I've used paper and spreadsheets in the past. The key is having the budget so you can understand where your money is going. You aren't always going to stick to the budget, but by paying attention and classifying all expenses, you can better understand things going forward and then plan better. I don't care if you make $35K a year or $350K a year, you need a budget.

onetimename 4y ago
As a former user who switched to Amex credit cards for all spending, it’s key benefit of automation is ruined. I don’t think it’s entirely YNAB’s fault. But having to manually input each credit card transaction doesn’t make me feel it’s worth the monthly charge. Then it just becomes a spreadsheet. EDIT: that is— the lessons are excellent and the mindset is important. But it’s monthly cost is another issue.
- mattw2121 4y ago
  (I'm not here to promote YNAB, I promise I'm just a happy user and not affiliated). I use my AMEX for 90% of all spending. No issues importing transactions to YNAB. Sometimes there is a 1-2 delay, but they do import.
  - ljoshua 4y ago
    Lucky! I love YNAB, but I'm glad that 95% of my spending is on my non-Amex cards and accounts, because the Amex accounts only sync successfully once in a blue moon, even after repeated reauthorizations. Any tips?
    - mattw2121 4y ago
      They have multiple import providers. I am set up to use Plaid. If you are using another it could be the cause of your issues.
- bambataa 4y ago
  Why does using Amex stop you using YNAB? Syncs fine for me.
  - onetimename 4y ago
    Luck I guess. I originally stopped using it when I got an Amex card because of sync issues. Tried it again recently and it was still the same. Maybe I was spoiled with near instant syncing on my debit card, I used to categorize the gas i just paid for before leaving the lot. But again, at 15 a month, that’s a lot of effort for a gui on top of a spreadsheet. The benefit for me was quick transaction logging and categorizing, then a weekly/monthly check up. But with sync issues, those check ups became categorizing sessions, and just took too much time.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
>If the golden rule is "Spend less than you earn", If that is the golden rule, then the platinum or diamond rule is to earn at least $x. There exists a lower limit under which certain parts of life are simply not affordable, such as saving for retirement, healthcare, education, children’s education, etc. >I don't care if you make $35K a year or $350K a year, you need a budget. At $35k, I imagine everything coming in is going out. You really just need to focus everything on increasing income. For people in the USA at least. Actually, because of cliffs in the qualifications for government benefits, the rule might be earn less than $x or more than $y, but not in between.
- trey-jones 4y ago
  Increasing income is what you might be able to do in the future. Spending less than you earn is what you can do right now to keep the hole from getting deeper. The author is correct. It applies at all income levels. When I read the title of the article, I instantly knew what the golden rule was, because it's obvious. If you make $35k, it is still possible. It might not be comfortable, and that seems to be the great success of capitalism in the 21st century: convincing people that they shouldn't ever be uncomfortable, or that they can't be without certain items or experiences that they most certainly can be. Increasing income is great. Literally (almost) everybody wants this. There is high demand for increasing income. The supply is part of the issue, and the cost of increasing income is the next barrier. Bettering your situation takes effort, either to decrease your spending, or to increase your income. Doing both at the same time takes double the effort. The last thing somebody making $35k (or $25k) needs is some provincial yuppie zoomer saying to them "Just make more money lul". It doesn't help anything.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    >It doesn't help anything. My advice is for those at 25 years old working in a fast food place who can read and write English. Their time excessively pruning their budget is better spent learning new skills and attempting to sell their services in a market that pays more. >If you make $35k, it is still possible. It might not be comfortable, and that seems to be the great success of capitalism in the 21st century: convincing people that they shouldn't ever be uncomfortable, or that they can't be without certain items or experiences that they most certainly can be. I do not know what this means. It is possible to live in the forest and forage and be comfortable, everyone was a few tens of thousands of years ago. But surely things like a safe neighborhood, healthcare for you and family, and opportunity for education are basic things that people can be expected to strive for, and that are not really achievable under a certain income in pretty much all populated regions of the US at $35k per year.
tejohnso 4y ago
> I don't care if you make $35K a year or $350K a year, you need a budget. That's a catchy thing to say but if someone is making $350K a year and easily saving / investing six figures annually without a budget, telling themn they need a budget sounds a bit absurd. I'd say the further you are from being able to invest / save sufficiently for your long term goals, the more a budget will help you. Admittedly, not nearly as catchy.
- mathgeek 4y ago
  If you have income automatically set aside for investments and savings, you already have a lightweight budget in the form of "I set aside X% or $Y every month and the rest is discretionary."
  - fassssst 4y ago
    That’s the best way to live, I don’t like micro-managing myself.
    - 1-more 4y ago
      I’ve dieted down to different weight classes for sports and tracking everything is pretty miserable. It works when there’s a single date up ahead. I can’t imagine micromanaging finances like that indefinitely. I’m with you: expenditures are about some number, savings for a house downpayment is about some other number, and that’s enough for me.
  - ehnto 4y ago
    This is more than most people have in my experience, if this is all the budgeting prowess you can muster then you are potentially ahead of the pack already.
  - wisnoskij 4y ago
    That works for you because nothing or anything would work for you. I am in the same boat, a budget would serve no purpose for me other than encouraging me to spend more. For the people who need a budget, they would just run out of money completely before their next paycheck and either get kicked out of their apartment, or dip into their savings.
stewx 4y ago
Budgets are not needed if you pay yourself first (i.e., save towards your goals as soon as you are paid) and only spend the money you have left over. Then you can't go into debt and you are meeting all your goals.
- CGamesPlay 4y ago
  Plans aren't needed if nothing ever goes wrong. What happens on the day you can't pay yourself first? That's what the budget should answer for you.
- samsolomon 4y ago
  Yeah, the reverse budget. I'm a fan of this. It might not be quite as efficient, but there's almost no mental overhead.
- remram 4y ago
  That sounds like a budget.
- wisnoskij 4y ago
  I think this misunderstands the point of a budget. A budget is not primarily designed to develop a growing savings account, tho that is a very good side effect. A budget is designed so that when the rent becomes due on the 29th, or you are hungry and you want want to consume food on the day before your paycheck comes in, you don't discover you have $2.50 to your name. You could put money aside for food every day, and for rent, and utility, as well, and that would be called a budget. IN fact just paying yourself first, is just a really simplistic underdeveloped budget.
- mattw2121 4y ago
  You literally just described a budget.
spywaregorilla 4y ago
I feel like if I needed a budget, that'd be a sign that I'm probably being too careless with my money to begin with.
- mattw2121 4y ago
  I feel like if I need to do any design work, then I must be too careless of a coder to begin with.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    That's just... a poorly constructed, bad faith comparison. It's very easy to casually save money without budgeting, especially if you have a high income, which you specifically called out as fair game. For me, checking my bank app every non and then and confirming I've got a good looking net savings per month is fine. You seem to be trying to imply that I must believe that any form or preparation is a sign that you can't execute. Which is dumb.
    - mattw2121 4y ago
      As income levels go up, budgeting can be much more casual as you've described. You are still talking about budgeting. You are inferring that I believe all budgeting is an act of OCD.
      - spywaregorilla 4y ago
        > You are inferring that I believe all budgeting is an act of OCD. I've said nothing of the sort. That's pretty rude to people who actually suffer from OCD. I don't personally believe checking my net cash flow every few months counts as budgeting but if you do, sure, that's a semantic disagreement.
        wink 4y ago
        I've had this discussion countless times and maybe we've got the same problem in just not thinking in budgets. Then again I've often thought that I simply don't need a budget for X if my spending on X (as analyzed over a year, or five) is so much below of what I would put as a budget if you'd asked me to guess one. Example: If I like buying music, I'd maybe give myself a budget of 30€ for music per month, that's 2 albums. Looking at how many albums I actually buy in a typical year, or in an excessive year - I've never even come close to buying 24 albums in a year. So that thought process might have happened once, 10 years ago and until I start to earn a lot less or albums get a lot more expensive, I'll just buy as many albums as I want, and usually end up with 5-10 per year.
P_I_Staker 4y ago
I would like to do better financially, but don't care for budgets. Often, I find that I'm unable to make a purchase, due to those pesky buggers. For example, I'm about to take a trip to Europe, which would never have been possible if I had "budgeted".
- mattw2121 4y ago
  I've taken many trips and budgeted for all of them. I plan in advance or if I feel like doing something spontaneous, I reallocate money from another budget item or from my discretionary bucket.
- foogazi 4y ago
  > I'm about to take a trip to Europe, which would never have been possible if I had "budgeted". Curious why ? Sounds like the same thing
  - P_I_Staker 4y ago
    Hey, I might have missed the mark, but it was intended to be tongue and cheek. I don't "like" budgets because they force me to live within my means. Ignore them, and you can do whatever you like! You do have a point though, I could probably bring the cost down and still manage it... this is what budgets are for.
foogazi 4y ago
For years I used YNAB and encouraged family to use it too Then I got into FAANG and switched to buying whatever I want and fully pay off credit cards every month UNTIL my wants got bigger and bigger - last minute vacations, concerts, a lot of “experience” stuff coming out of covid lockdowns And now, RSUs are down , I spend more than I bring in each month, started drawing down on cash savings - YOLO - still driving a Camry though I need a budget again
francis-io 4y ago
I can also recommend moneydashboard.com. I load in multiple banks and credit cards, it will update all my banking transactions via api into a central view. I can set a budget for each type of expense and it all just seems to work.

onetimename 4y ago

As a former user who switched to Amex credit cards for all spending, it’s key benefit of automation is ruined. I don’t think it’s entirely YNAB’s fault. But having to manually input each credit card transaction doesn’t make me feel it’s worth the monthly charge. Then it just becomes a spreadsheet. EDIT: that is— the lessons are excellent and the mindset is important. But it’s monthly cost is another issue.

mattw2121 4y ago
(I'm not here to promote YNAB, I promise I'm just a happy user and not affiliated). I use my AMEX for 90% of all spending. No issues importing transactions to YNAB. Sometimes there is a 1-2 delay, but they do import.
- ljoshua 4y ago
  Lucky! I love YNAB, but I'm glad that 95% of my spending is on my non-Amex cards and accounts, because the Amex accounts only sync successfully once in a blue moon, even after repeated reauthorizations. Any tips?
  - mattw2121 4y ago
    They have multiple import providers. I am set up to use Plaid. If you are using another it could be the cause of your issues.
bambataa 4y ago
Why does using Amex stop you using YNAB? Syncs fine for me.
- onetimename 4y ago
  Luck I guess. I originally stopped using it when I got an Amex card because of sync issues. Tried it again recently and it was still the same. Maybe I was spoiled with near instant syncing on my debit card, I used to categorize the gas i just paid for before leaving the lot. But again, at 15 a month, that’s a lot of effort for a gui on top of a spreadsheet. The benefit for me was quick transaction logging and categorizing, then a weekly/monthly check up. But with sync issues, those check ups became categorizing sessions, and just took too much time.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

>If the golden rule is "Spend less than you earn", If that is the golden rule, then the platinum or diamond rule is to earn at least $x. There exists a lower limit under which certain parts of life are simply not affordable, such as saving for retirement, healthcare, education, children’s education, etc. >I don't care if you make $35K a year or $350K a year, you need a budget. At $35k, I imagine everything coming in is going out. You really just need to focus everything on increasing income. For people in the USA at least. Actually, because of cliffs in the qualifications for government benefits, the rule might be earn less than $x or more than $y, but not in between.

trey-jones 4y ago
Increasing income is what you might be able to do in the future. Spending less than you earn is what you can do right now to keep the hole from getting deeper. The author is correct. It applies at all income levels. When I read the title of the article, I instantly knew what the golden rule was, because it's obvious. If you make $35k, it is still possible. It might not be comfortable, and that seems to be the great success of capitalism in the 21st century: convincing people that they shouldn't ever be uncomfortable, or that they can't be without certain items or experiences that they most certainly can be. Increasing income is great. Literally (almost) everybody wants this. There is high demand for increasing income. The supply is part of the issue, and the cost of increasing income is the next barrier. Bettering your situation takes effort, either to decrease your spending, or to increase your income. Doing both at the same time takes double the effort. The last thing somebody making $35k (or $25k) needs is some provincial yuppie zoomer saying to them "Just make more money lul". It doesn't help anything.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  >It doesn't help anything. My advice is for those at 25 years old working in a fast food place who can read and write English. Their time excessively pruning their budget is better spent learning new skills and attempting to sell their services in a market that pays more. >If you make $35k, it is still possible. It might not be comfortable, and that seems to be the great success of capitalism in the 21st century: convincing people that they shouldn't ever be uncomfortable, or that they can't be without certain items or experiences that they most certainly can be. I do not know what this means. It is possible to live in the forest and forage and be comfortable, everyone was a few tens of thousands of years ago. But surely things like a safe neighborhood, healthcare for you and family, and opportunity for education are basic things that people can be expected to strive for, and that are not really achievable under a certain income in pretty much all populated regions of the US at $35k per year.

tejohnso 4y ago

> I don't care if you make $35K a year or $350K a year, you need a budget. That's a catchy thing to say but if someone is making $350K a year and easily saving / investing six figures annually without a budget, telling themn they need a budget sounds a bit absurd. I'd say the further you are from being able to invest / save sufficiently for your long term goals, the more a budget will help you. Admittedly, not nearly as catchy.

mathgeek 4y ago
If you have income automatically set aside for investments and savings, you already have a lightweight budget in the form of "I set aside X% or $Y every month and the rest is discretionary."
- fassssst 4y ago
  That’s the best way to live, I don’t like micro-managing myself.
  - 1-more 4y ago
    I’ve dieted down to different weight classes for sports and tracking everything is pretty miserable. It works when there’s a single date up ahead. I can’t imagine micromanaging finances like that indefinitely. I’m with you: expenditures are about some number, savings for a house downpayment is about some other number, and that’s enough for me.
- ehnto 4y ago
  This is more than most people have in my experience, if this is all the budgeting prowess you can muster then you are potentially ahead of the pack already.
- wisnoskij 4y ago
  That works for you because nothing or anything would work for you. I am in the same boat, a budget would serve no purpose for me other than encouraging me to spend more. For the people who need a budget, they would just run out of money completely before their next paycheck and either get kicked out of their apartment, or dip into their savings.

stewx 4y ago

Budgets are not needed if you pay yourself first (i.e., save towards your goals as soon as you are paid) and only spend the money you have left over. Then you can't go into debt and you are meeting all your goals.

CGamesPlay 4y ago
Plans aren't needed if nothing ever goes wrong. What happens on the day you can't pay yourself first? That's what the budget should answer for you.
samsolomon 4y ago
Yeah, the reverse budget. I'm a fan of this. It might not be quite as efficient, but there's almost no mental overhead.
remram 4y ago
That sounds like a budget.
wisnoskij 4y ago
I think this misunderstands the point of a budget. A budget is not primarily designed to develop a growing savings account, tho that is a very good side effect. A budget is designed so that when the rent becomes due on the 29th, or you are hungry and you want want to consume food on the day before your paycheck comes in, you don't discover you have $2.50 to your name. You could put money aside for food every day, and for rent, and utility, as well, and that would be called a budget. IN fact just paying yourself first, is just a really simplistic underdeveloped budget.
mattw2121 4y ago
You literally just described a budget.

spywaregorilla 4y ago

I feel like if I needed a budget, that'd be a sign that I'm probably being too careless with my money to begin with.

mattw2121 4y ago
I feel like if I need to do any design work, then I must be too careless of a coder to begin with.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  That's just... a poorly constructed, bad faith comparison. It's very easy to casually save money without budgeting, especially if you have a high income, which you specifically called out as fair game. For me, checking my bank app every non and then and confirming I've got a good looking net savings per month is fine. You seem to be trying to imply that I must believe that any form or preparation is a sign that you can't execute. Which is dumb.
  - mattw2121 4y ago
    As income levels go up, budgeting can be much more casual as you've described. You are still talking about budgeting. You are inferring that I believe all budgeting is an act of OCD.
    - spywaregorilla 4y ago
      > You are inferring that I believe all budgeting is an act of OCD. I've said nothing of the sort. That's pretty rude to people who actually suffer from OCD. I don't personally believe checking my net cash flow every few months counts as budgeting but if you do, sure, that's a semantic disagreement.
      - wink 4y ago
        I've had this discussion countless times and maybe we've got the same problem in just not thinking in budgets. Then again I've often thought that I simply don't need a budget for X if my spending on X (as analyzed over a year, or five) is so much below of what I would put as a budget if you'd asked me to guess one. Example: If I like buying music, I'd maybe give myself a budget of 30€ for music per month, that's 2 albums. Looking at how many albums I actually buy in a typical year, or in an excessive year - I've never even come close to buying 24 albums in a year. So that thought process might have happened once, 10 years ago and until I start to earn a lot less or albums get a lot more expensive, I'll just buy as many albums as I want, and usually end up with 5-10 per year.

P_I_Staker 4y ago

I would like to do better financially, but don't care for budgets. Often, I find that I'm unable to make a purchase, due to those pesky buggers. For example, I'm about to take a trip to Europe, which would never have been possible if I had "budgeted".

mattw2121 4y ago
I've taken many trips and budgeted for all of them. I plan in advance or if I feel like doing something spontaneous, I reallocate money from another budget item or from my discretionary bucket.
foogazi 4y ago
> I'm about to take a trip to Europe, which would never have been possible if I had "budgeted". Curious why ? Sounds like the same thing
- P_I_Staker 4y ago
  Hey, I might have missed the mark, but it was intended to be tongue and cheek. I don't "like" budgets because they force me to live within my means. Ignore them, and you can do whatever you like! You do have a point though, I could probably bring the cost down and still manage it... this is what budgets are for.

foogazi 4y ago

For years I used YNAB and encouraged family to use it too Then I got into FAANG and switched to buying whatever I want and fully pay off credit cards every month UNTIL my wants got bigger and bigger - last minute vacations, concerts, a lot of “experience” stuff coming out of covid lockdowns And now, RSUs are down , I spend more than I bring in each month, started drawing down on cash savings - YOLO - still driving a Camry though I need a budget again

francis-io 4y ago

I can also recommend moneydashboard.com. I load in multiple banks and credit cards, it will update all my banking transactions via api into a central view. I can set a budget for each type of expense and it all just seems to work.