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Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro
- arlattimore 4y agoAustralia did a strategic review of payments in 2012, one of the findings was they needed instant payments - it was rolled out in 2018. The days of waiting days and days for money to transfer between banks/accounts/etc are a thing of the past and it is great. Great to see the same sort of capabilities coming to the EU!
- legulere 4y agoWire transfers already have a maximum limit of one day inside the EU, so at least you don’t have to wait days and days. Instant payments have the advantage that they better integrate into online shopping. You could have used signed receipts for the wire transfer by the bank instead though.
- keepquestioning 4y agoEven India has better payments than Europe. Thank you Modi
- BrandoElFollito 4y agoThis would be welcome in France. We have middle-age grade banking where "instant transfers" are very limited and they are presented as a revolution. I recently visited Poland and their banking/payment system is amazing (especially Blik). Anything that moves is France ahead will be great. I do not even touch the question of the login screens that are atrocious. Boursorama (largest online bank) had me chose exactly 8 digits PIN to log in. Fortuneo broke their logging screen. None of them care the slightest.
- akie 4y agoObviously a good idea that should be implemented immediately.
- rieTohgh6 4y agoAre you sure it should implemented immediately? > with an obligation on providers to verify the match between the bank account number (IBAN) and the name of the beneficiary provided by the payer This will break a lot of payment flows, currently that verification is rarely enforced. For example I have saved "power company" as receiver's name, the transfers still work since everything besides IBAN is ignored.
- hoffs 4y agoConfirmation of payee is nothing new
- hocuspocus 4y agoWell, this has to come at some point. Right now the receiving bank can silently start being compliant overnight and you won't know. If there's some official deadline, this gives the opportunity to warn all parties beforehand.
- DocTomoe 4y agoYours may be an extreme example, but verification may be a hard to solve problem once account holder names become too long or have funky characters in it (as is often the case in the EU). For instance, my electricity provider is the EnBW Energie Baden-Württemberg AG Yes, EnBW, the shorthand for the name, is PART of the official name, yes, that is an Umlaut, and yes, the name is too long to fit into the standard account holder field of a SEPA transfer. So I send my electricity money to the "EnBW AG", which always worked, but is technically wrong (and technically, there is no obvious "real" solution, because their letterhead and their prefilled paper slips all use the full name, which - again - uses a too long, incorrectly-alphabeticized variant. Now, for some extra fun, what about legal forms that have a & (illegal character) in it? Kombine GmbH & Co. KG cannot be addressed, but is a valid name. And how do you teach an 80 year old grandmother - who up to now keeps filling out paper forms - to do this correctly on a screen the sized half a postcard wide?
- hocuspocus 4y ago
- MichaelZuo 4y agoInterestingly, the claim that: "there is no reason why many citizens and businesses in the EU are not able to send and receive money immediately" is made on the record by the responsible official, Mairead McGuinness, Commissioner for financial services, financial stability and Capital Markets Union. Which seems incorrect as 10 second payments EU-wide obviously require universal adoption of updated IT systems and more stringent control to guarantee that 10 second deadline. The increased costs will inevitably have to be paid for somehow, likely via incereased fees.
- newaccount74 4y agoThe tech for instant tranfers is already there, they just charge ridiculous amounts for it. Eg. my bank charges 7€ for an instant transfer, slow transfers are free. This proposal would make all transfers free and instant.
- drooopy 4y agoOne of my banks in Portugal charges €1,7 flat for any instant transfer also. It's infuriating to know that the tech is there but banks are just being banks.
- MichaelZuo 4y agoIt's impossible to make anything free. The likely outcome is the costs will be moved around so that its paid indirectly.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- yladiz 4y agoBanks already make enough money from interest on loans, they can afford the minor cost of an instant SEPA transfer. The €7 cost that the parent is charged is way too high, I only have to pay €0.5 for the same with my bank, with a cap of €2,000 on the amount of the transfer (above it can only be the slow transfer).
- newaccount74 4y agoThis will be huge. This will allow anyone to accept digital payments, eg. at a farmers market, using the bank accounts everyone already has. The only thing missing is forcing banks to provide an API for third party integrations, but I think there is a separate proposal on the way for that. Imagine being able to accept instant payments from everyone in the EU, without having to sign up for a service like Stripe or Paypal, just using a normal bank account from any of hundreds (thousands?) of banks in the EU. And your customers don't even need a credit card, just the banking app they already use every day.
- tluyben2 4y agoPractically this is already the case in many countries; NL to my Revolut or PT accounts is seconds, vice versa too. It works well. But it is not guaranteed. Api would be good; I can imagine visa and mastercard are getting a little bit panicked as this is already trivial and I am using my phone for payments anyway (no idea where my card is) (but still use them of course via NFC).
- prvit 4y agoIt’ll be trivial if Apple implements it. Europeans? They’ll figure out a way to require chipTAN and SMS confirmation for POS transactions.
- dylan604 4y agodon't forget the QR code
- f6v 4y agoAlthough not in euro, but Denmark has MobilePay that’s instant.
- reacharavindh 4y agoNL here. We use Tikkie for similar needs as MobilePay. Although the ability of merchants to simply display a QR code for their customers to complete the transaction is a convenience I miss here.
- thefounder 4y agoI wonder why are not the "slow" methods banned.
- hocuspocus 4y agoIf I wire 200k I honestly don't care if it takes a few hours (nowadays, old-school SEPA transfers don't necessarily take more) and happens only during business days/hours. It gives everyone more room to cancel if you fucked up.
- prvit 4y agoIf I wire 200k to buy a car, I want that money to arrive instantly. I certainly do not want to spend hours at some parking lot waiting for the money to arrive, I want to sign the papers right there and then and take the car with me. No fucking way I’m gonna leave some random with both the car and my 200k. So instead of sending a bank transfer, I still have to show up with a big bag of cash in 2022. The amounts where multi-hour transaction times are consistently acceptable will be significantly higher, 200k is still well within normal everyday p2p transactions.
- hocuspocus 4y ago> 200k is still well within normal everyday p2p transactions. You should probably get out of your bubble. That said, it's a false dichotomy. You can perfectly allow sky-high limits to SCT Inst for customers who regularly need it, yet have more reasonable policies for the 99% of the population who's perfectly OK with a slow transfer when they wire money to a notary public to buy a property.
- JohnJamesRambo 4y agoI’m curious, what cars are you buying for $200k? Do you mean USD?
- newaccount74 4y agoCould be 200k SEK or 200k DKK which would be a believable price for a used car.
- hardware2win 4y agoWill it be like Polish BLIK? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blik Instant payments Money transfers over phone number 2 minutes payment codes that you type on e.g website and accept payment in app Shopping example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBw1qa07gGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBw1qa07gGU Stats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDI4R94ZLvM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDI4R94ZLvM
- Goz3rr 4y agoIt's basically a SEPA transfer as they already exist, except instant. I'm not sure how Poland would fit into this exactly as the press release specifically mentions payments in euro, not zloty. Dutch banks have supported instant payments for a couple of years now, and the way person to person payments are most often done is through something called a "Tikkie" which involves sending someone a payment URL (via any messaging platform or a QR code) which then opens their own banking app on their phone.
- fy20 4y agoI guess the idea is to have a unified system throughout the EU, so if you are from Germany and you are on holiday in Portugal, you can still do instant transfers to pay in shops.
- Goz3rr 4y agoBut why would you pay by bank transfer? Why not pay (contactless) with your phone/wearable/regular card?
- alexaholic 4y agoA bank transfer would exclude the intermediaries: Visa, Mastercard, Apple, Stripe etc.
- dathinab 4y agoProbably, a lot of banks in the EU have one or another instant payment system. And many have somewhat adept ways to convenient setup bank transfer between two people (e.g. through an qr code), standardizing this would be a much bigger improvement then just standardizing the first part.
- 0x_rs 4y agoI've read a lot of praise for India's IMPS. In a digitalized world with widespread usage of mobile devices universal instantaneous intra-bank payments are an obvious step forward. It'd be great if this could in some way remove the dependency on the payment processors duopoly while keeping fees low or non-existent (at the moment, depending on your gateway, instant SEPAs have a few euros fees) and decreasing friction as the proposal says, let alone the security implications. Merchants would also be more willing to adopt these technologies in less developed areas.
- neel8986 4y agoInstant payment in India (UPI) has been revolutionary. Last month 6.7 billion transaction took place amounting to $138B!! https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/product-statistics https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/product-statistics Every major company tech company ( Google, meta, amazon, flipkart ) wants to be a part of it. This can be a huge opportunity for European startups
- tweaktastic 4y agoI can't express in words the amount of push UPI has provided in India for the digital payments sector. Any shop I have visited in the past year has a QR code on the Front counter. And I am not talking about big shops. I am talking about Hawkers, street vendors, Brick and Mortar shops, roadside Dhabas, Mechanics. UPI is a gamechanger.
- yrgulation 4y agoDepending on banks and countries instant payments have been a thing for a long time in “Europe” (assumed to mean EU and satellites). The question here is about taking things to the next level for international payments (these countries are sovereign and have their own policies, the eu wants to ensure uniformity). So this is not comparable to what india does within its own borders.
- boruto 4y ago> Depending on banks and countries instant payments have been a thing for a long time Like how? Mandatory implementation of accepting SEPA instant directive to banks was like 2-3 years ago. Afaik there was no instant payment within most of the major economies, case Germany. Banking outside UK in europe is still a pain for business and consumer. EU commission would want consistency, but nothing was stopping Bundesbank from innovating.
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y agoHrr Hrr. Meanwhile, Deutsche Postbank ATM (because Cashgroup), 3rd time in a row of three months, at the beginning of a month in the late evening: This Service is currently not available. In different locations. Deutsche Bank has no open ATM locations at late evening or night anymore. While Shell does it. They make cash suck more and more. Grr!
- AlbertoGP 4y agoSame here (Saarland): tried finding an ATM, went to two different places, both were out of order in the same day!
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y agoDo you know https://www.cashgroup.de/ https://www.cashgroup.de/ btw.? This map is my pet peeve. Because after you've entered your PLZ/Zip or address, it doesn't even show all ATMs. You have to 'wiggle' the map a little, then others pop up. And depending on how you zoom in, they disappear again. Have to 're-wiggle' carefully. If you pan far, it takes time for the ATMs in that area to pop up, if at all. Again, 'wiggling' is needed. And it still doesn't show one who I pass by often, know it's in operation, but is useless anyways, because: Dieser Service ist derzeit nicht verfügbar. ARRGH! Trashgroup! Edit: On FF with uBo off btw., just to be sure. Edit: Can't get over it. There is one Bank next to my now closed Bank which had an ATM, which now has a sign to use the next one from Postbank, which doesn't even show up on their map, and which gives you the No Service message regardless.
- AlbertoGP 4y agoWow, did not know about that website, and sure enough, it does show the two ATMs that were out of service. I doubt they are back. It makes a great impression right from the start with the comically squashed map of Germany: the aspect ratio depends on the window size. Thank you very much for your report. It’s good to know that these are not isolated incidents.
- mig39 4y agoWe have Interac e-mail and SMS transfers in Canada. No need to give out bank details. Just give someone your e-mail or phone number and they can send you money via their bank app. They don't even need to know which bank you use.
- yohannparis 4y agoInterac transfer is a nightmare to use. I want to send money or request money from someone? 1. Ask for their info (e-mail or phone number) 2. Login to my banking service (web or app) 3. Create a new contact with 1. 4. If they did not setup auto-deposit: setup a security question 5. Send/Request money (+ security question, if needed) 6. Wait few seconds~minutes for an email/SMS 7. If you did not setup auto-deposit: Click on link provided to open 2. Really...
- mig39 4y agoI didn't really see any of those steps as a nightmare :-) But perhaps we have a different level of tolerance. For me, it's convenient.
- koblas 4y agoI deal with a few people who clearly receive regular Interac payments, but still haven't figured out how to associate their email with their bank account. Thus requiring the question. ps. Don't get me started about figuring out how to send automated payments and if you're lucky enough to find a bank that has a broken API to this.
- dgudkov 4y agoWise (formerly TransferWise) recently started supporting Interac and also has an API for automated payments. I didn't try the API with Interac though.
- yohannparis 4y agoI use interac because I don't have a choice. I don't understand the whole security question plus having to create a user account. Just send the money. If you made a mistake, your fault.
- lizardactivist 4y agoGood. And cut out the US American payment giants as soon as possible. Allowing them to control such a large amount of inter-EU payments is a huge security risk. Every country, or union of countries, should be in full control over its payment services and infrastructure.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y agoBlank without javascript? I can't believe my taxes are stolen to pay for this level of incompetence in serving a static document. https://archive.ph/mP9Bb https://archive.ph/mP9Bb Instant payments in euro? It's called cash you fucking authoritarians! It is never "locked in transit in the financial system" and can be instantly "consumed" and "invested" by the receiving party. > while preserving the effectiveness of screening of persons that are subject to EU sanctions, through a procedure whereby payment service providers will verify at least daily their clients against EU sanctions lists > in full conformity with existing rules on sanctions and fighting financial crime The real reason: to have government approve every transaction. Sure they mean russians now but it will expand. We've seen the massive overreach of government force the past 2 years to keep people confined in their homes. Too critical of government? Sanctioned. Bought too many calories? Sanctioned. Bought too many joules of energy? Sanctioned.
- noobermin 4y agoSingapore has something similar with paynow and friends, literally instant payments in seconds and all you need is the person's cell phone number. It really is something different, but SG is just a city. Having such a system over the whole eurozone would be quite something.
- greatgib 4y agoAlso, Something to take into account is that, most of the time, delays in wire transfers are due to bank compliance checks imposed by states! (In addition with bank usual incompétences)
- okokwhatever 4y agoAt least EU working to give bitcoin the hype! Thanks EU!